Part 9

On the 25th March 1818, there was a balance in the hands of each of the treasurers, with exception of the Bitton and Toghill roads; and the balance due to that treasurer has been diminished upon the whole account; there remained in the hands of the treasurers, on the 25th March 1818, the sum of 1,987 14 5

In the hands of the general treasurer, from 5 per cent. fund _£._502 5 11

Due by the Whitchurch road to the 5 per cent. fund, and included in the general debt 300 0 0

——————————— 802 5 11

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Balance in hand, 25th March 1818 _£._2,790 0 4

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It is very gratifying to report to the commissioners this material amelioration of the funds during the present year, when the income of the trust has suffered a diminution of 425_l._ 5_s._ occasioned probably by the depression of trade throughout the country.

It is to be regretted that the directions of the general meetings respecting the payments to the 5 per cent. fund have not been more punctually obeyed; but without entering into the circumstances of heavy debt and other difficulties, which have hitherto prevented payments from particular treasurers, I beg leave to call the attention of the commissioners to a consideration of the importance of this fund, and the use to which it may be most advantageously applied.

The fund was instituted for the purpose of giving the general meetings the power of extending aid to any division of the roads of the district that might be in distress. As the favourable state of the funds, arising from the system of management adopted by the commissioners, gives a very reasonable hope that such occasion of distress may never again occur, it may be expedient to consider of the propriety of converting the 5 per cents. into a sinking fund.

By application of such a sum, amounting to about 850_l._ annually, to the gradual extinction of the debt of the trust, the means of continuing several useful and very desirable improvements will be diminished only in a small proportion, and the amendment of the general state of the roads will proceed, without entirely losing sight of the justice due to the creditors, and the desirable object of reducing a debt of such magnitude.

As it may be doubtful whether under the authority of the present act of parliament the trustees may legally apply the 5 per cent. fund to the purpose of a sinking fund, the committee appointed to prepare the new act may be instructed to consider of this subject, and also for better securing the due payment of the 5 per cent. fund at stated periods, along with the interest of the debt, to the general treasurer.

I have great pleasure in being able to continue to give a favourable report of the conduct of the sub-surveyors.

(Signed) _John Loudon MᶜAdam._

8th March, 1819.

The foregoing is a true copy from the book of proceedings of the trustees of the Bristol turnpike roads.

_Osborne & Ward_, Clerks.

BRISTOL TURNPIKES.

At a Meeting of the Trustees for the care of the several roads round the city of Bristol, holden on 7th December 1818, at the Guildhall in Bristol.

THOMAS DANIEL, Esq. in the Chair.

It appearing that under the triennial appointment of Mr. MᶜAdam, his office of general surveyor will cease on the 16th day of January next;—

Ordered unanimously, That he be again appointed to that office for a further term of three years, at the same salary.

Resolved unanimously, That the thanks of this meeting be given to Mr. MᶜAdam for the zeal and ability with which he has executed the very arduous duties of his office, from which it appears to this meeting that the most important advantages have resulted to the roads under his care.

8th March 1819.

The foregoing is a true copy from the book of proceedings of the trustees of the Bristol turnpike roads.

_Osborne & Ward_, Clerks.

Does any part of that saving which is stated to have taken place on those roads, arise from an increase of revenue?—There has been a small increase of revenue, but whether arising from tolls or a better collection of the statute labour, I cannot take upon me to say; but that increase of revenue must be deducted from the saving of 2,700_l._, which appears in the treasurer’s hands.

_Jovis, 11º die Martii, 1819._

_John Loudon MᶜAdam_, Esquire, called in; and Examined.

Is there any part of your former evidence upon which you wish to give any further explanation to the Committee?—In consequence of the surprise and doubt expressed by some members of this honourable Committee, on that part of my evidence respecting the carrying a road over a morass in Somersetshire, and the proportions of the materials used upon that, and the part of the road with a rocky foundation, which I stated from memory, I thought it proper to write down to the treasurer of that road, to request the favour of him to send for the surveyor, and know the facts exactly from him. The treasurer, Mr. Phippen, who is a magistrate, sent a certificate, signed by the surveyor. There was a certificate, also, signed by Mr. Phippen; and with it there was a letter from Mr. Phippen, of explanation; both of which I wish to put in.

[_The papers put in were as follow:_]

“I do certify that that part of the sixteen miles of the Bristol turnpike road under my care, from Cross, over the marsh lands, towards Bridgewater, is now in the best state I ever knew it, which is wholly owing to having the very large stones laid at the foundation when the road was first made more than fifty years since, lifted and beaten very small. The general strength of the road is from seven inches to nine; and five tons of stones, I have always considered for the repairs of this part of the road equal to seven on the other part over the hills.

(Signed) “_Edward Whitting_, Surveyor.”

“I, Robert Phippen, Esq. one of His Majesty’s justices of the peace for the county of Somerset, and treasurer on the road mentioned in the above certificate, do hereby certify and declare, that the contents are true to the best of my knowledge and belief; and the road in question has been under my constant inspection for five years past; and the surveyor, Edward Whitting, is a person well known to me, and worthy of credit.

“Dated March 9th, 1819.”

“Letter from Robert Phippen, Esq. to John Loudon MᶜAdam, Esq. No. 9, Northumberland-street, Strand, London.

“Dear Sir,

“There cannot, in my opinion, be any necessity to lay the foundation of a road on any ground, even the most soft and peaty, with large stones; daily observation tells me, that this is a great waste of time, materials, and money. I have had, for these five or six years past, a great deal of experience in seeing roads made, one in particular, over a very soft peat bog, by Wedmore and Glastonbury, in this county. At the time this new line of road was proposed to be made, a great difference of opinion existed as to its practicability, and the method to be pursued to accomplish it. Some of the parties were for laying the whole of the road over the bog with brush-wood, on which were to be put large flat stones, and on those smaller ones. We who were the other party, insisted that a more simple, less expensive, and more permanent method was to make it with stones alone, broken very small. We, at last, prevailed, and the system succeeded even beyond our most sanguine expectations; for this part of the road has stood uncommonly well, though the travelling on it has been very great, and with heavy carriages, and the little repairs wanted have been done as an inconsiderable expense, compared to the other part of the road made on hard ground over the hills.

“I remain, dear Sir, yours truly, “_Rob. Phippen_.”

“Badgworth Court, near Axbridge, March 9th, 1819.

I wish, in reference to the opinion I gave with respect to the statute labour, to state, that I have to transact with sixty-nine parishes, respecting their statute labour, in the counties of Somerset and Gloucester; and that it is in consequence of these transactions, I gave the opinion to the Committee that I had the honour to submit.

What proportion of the statute duty, by pecuniary payments, instead of the mode at present adopted, do you conceive might be saved?—I think, if one third of the present nominal value of the statute labour was to be regularly paid into the hands of the treasurer, that it would be more available to the public roads, than the present manner in which the work is done, and certainly less onerous to the agriculture of the country.

_James MᶜAdam_, Esq. called in; and Examined.

You are the son of the last witness?—I am.

Have you been employed as a general surveyor upon the turnpike roads?—I have.

Upon what roads have you been employed?—Upon the Epsom and Ewell turnpike roads of twenty-one miles; upon the Reading road of six miles; upon the eastern division of the Egham road, seven miles and a half; on the western division of the Egham road, eight miles and a half; on the Cheshunt turnpike roads, of eighteen miles; upon the Wades-mill turnpike trust of twenty-nine miles; on the old North road, or Royston road, of fifteen miles; upon the Huntingdon road of ten miles; and on the road from Huntingdon to Somersham of ten miles; being together one hundred and twenty-five miles.

How long have you been appointed to them?—My first appointment was in December 1817.

Had you been previously in the habits of making the improvement of turnpike roads your study?—I had at Bristol, under my father’s tuition.

The information you have acquired, I presume, then, has been entirely under your father’s system?—Yes, upon my father’s principles of making roads.

And those plans which you have adopted, have been entirely conformable to the evidence which he has given before this Committee?—Entirely conformable to those principles which my father has stated in his evidence before this Committee.

Can you give the Committee any information with regard to the revenues of the different roads under your management?—The gross revenue of the trusts I have mentioned, of which I am general surveyor, is about 19,550_l._ per annum.

Please to state to the Committee, the state of repair in which these roads were when they first came under your management?—The roads in general were in a very loose, rough, and heavy state, much overloaded with materials, the watercourses much stopped up, and the roads in general in a very bad state.

What improvements have taken place upon them since your undertaking the care of them?—The Epsom and Ewell roads were put into a perfect state of repair during the last spring and summer; the Reading road has also been put into a perfect state of repair during the last summer; and the Cheshunt turnpike roads have been put into a good state of repair, notwithstanding that the improvements commenced in October, and have been carried on through the whole winter: the improvement is proceeding rapidly in the other districts; but the three roads I have mentioned, are the only trusts that are brought into a perfect state of repair. I venture to speak freely and with great confidence, of the good state of repair of these three trusts; for the reason, that no credit whatever is attached to me, except what may be considered due by the careful attention and zealous execution of my father’s commands. The merits of the improvements are wholly his own.

Can you state to the Committee the expense with which these improvements have been accompanied?—The expense upon the Epsom roads amounted to 1,929_l._ 8_s._ 1_d._ in the year 1818; that is the only trust upon which I am enabled to state the twelvemonth’s expenditure.

In what proportion has the expenditure been divided between the labour of men, women, and children, and the price of cartage and of materials?—I have paid for labour upon the Epsom roads, 1,146_l._ 1_s._ 2_d._; for materials, 98_l._ 10_s._; for cartage, 227_l._ 16_s._; for tradesmen’s bills, 342_l._ 0_s._ 11_d._; for land to widen the roads, 115_l._; which makes up the expenditure 1,929_l._ 8_s._ 1_d._ I beg here to state, that I did not avail myself of any statute duty upon the Epsom and Ewell roads.

Can you state to the Committee the expenditure upon these roads, in the years preceding your having the charge of them?—I can; in the years 1815, 1816, and, 1817, which are the three preceding years to my having the charge of these roads. In the year 1815, there was paid for labour, 379_l._ 14_s._; for cartage, 1,019_l._ 14_s._; for gravel, 486_l._ 15_s._ 5_d._; for tradesmen’s bills, 178_l._ 6_s._ 3_d._; making a total of 2,064_l._ 9_s._ 5_d._ In the year 1816, there was paid for labour 340_l._ 16_s._; for cartage, 1,070_l._ 7_s._ 6_d._; for gravel, 563_l._ 1_s._ 10_d._; for tradesmen’s bills, 382_l._ 4_s._ 5_d._ making a total of 2,375_l._ 19_s._ 9_d._ In the year 1817, there was paid for labour, 339_l._ 16_s._; for cartage, 1,103_l._ 16_s._ 3_d._; for gravel, 551_l._; for tradesmen’s bills, 681_l._ 6_s._ 1_d._; making a total of 2,675_l._ 18_s._ 4_d._; independent of the statute duty upon the several parishes, which were called forth by the former surveyor.

Do you know the value of that statute duty?—Not having had occasion to call it forth, I am unable precisely to answer the question; but the parishes are wealthy, and the statute labour must form a very considerable amount.

I presume the comparative smallness of the expense which you incurred for materials must have arisen from making use of the old materials upon the road, by lifting them according to the plan which your father has described?—That was the case.

In what state did you find the executive department of these roads when you took charge of them?—I found at Epsom a person as surveyor, who had been an underwriter at Lloyd’s Coffee-house, at a salary, as I am informed, of sixty pounds per annum, and who was permitted to keep the carts and horses, and do the cartage for the trust. At Reading, I found an elderly gentleman as the surveyor, who was also one of the commissioners, at a salary of twenty or thirty pounds per annum. I found at Cheshunt three surveyors, the trust being divided into three districts. One of the surveyors was an infirm old man, another a carpenter, and another a coal-merchant. I found on the Wades-mill trust three surveyors also, and the trust divided into three districts; one of these surveyors was a very old man, another a publican at Buckland, and the other a baker at Backway, with a salary of fourteen shillings a week each. I found on the Royston road a publican as surveyor there; and I found at Huntingdon a bedridden old man who had not been out of the house for several months, and who had been allowed by the commissioners to apply to a carpenter in the town for assistance, and to whom the commissioners allowed twenty pounds per annum; this person, who accompanied me in the survey of the roads, stated, that he could give but little attention to the management of the road, the salary being so small; and the state of those roads bore evidence to the truth of his assertion.

Without entering into individual cases, do you consider that it was possible, from the nature of the circumstances and engagements of these parties, that they could give that attention to the roads which their improvement required?—I do not consider it was at all likely that they would.

What arrangements did you make in the executive department of these roads after you took the charge of them?—With the permission of the trustees, I appointed upon each trust an active sub-surveyor, whom I required to keep a horse, and to have no other occupation whatever.

Can you state to the Committee the expense of employing such sub-surveyors?—The salary of the sub-surveyors in general is one hundred guineas a year; and where the revenues of the trust have been small, as in the case of the Royston roads and the Huntingdon roads, I have made one surveyor do the duty of both the trusts, in order that that expense might be divided.

What emoluments have you yourself derived from your employment upon these trusts?—I am unable to state the precise amount to the Committee; for the reason that I have in every instance requested of the trustees that that consideration might be deferred for at least a twelvemonth after I was honoured with the charge of the roads; Epsom is therefore the only road upon which that period has elapsed; and with the permission of the Committee, I will read the resolution entered upon the ledger of the Epsom roads upon that subject.

21st December, 1818.

We have examined the above accounts of Mr. MᶜAdam, the surveyor, from its commencement to this date, and find that the sum of 75_l._ 6_s._ 1_d._ is due to Mr. MᶜAdam, by the trust, say £.75 6 1

But as no allowance has been made to the surveyor for his management, and as that management has given great satisfaction to the trustees, it was resolved to give the surveyor, to cover all charges, and for his trouble, it being distinctly understood for this year only, the sum of one hundred and fifty guineas 157 10 ——

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£.232 16 1

Which sum of 232_l._ 16_s._ 1_d._ the treasurer will be pleased to pay to Mr. MᶜAdam.

(Signed) _T. Reid_, _Edward Archbold_, _John Webb_, _Thomas Calverley_, _Thomas Halliday_, _William Dowdeswell_, _J. M. Cripps_,”

With permission of the Committee I will relate what I stated to the trustees, upon those resolutions being read to me; that I considered that sum as extremely liberal, and quite sufficient for one small trust to give a general surveyor, and were Epsom one trust in a district, such a sum would be quite sufficient for their proportion of the salary of a general surveyor; but standing alone, and divided from all other trusts of which I had the management, and separated also by the London roads, the necessity of my father’s travelling from Bristol and residing some time at Epsom, and of so much being required to be done the first year in a new trust, that sum did no more than repay the actual expenses incurred. It will be obvious to the Committee that such a trust as Reading, consisting of six miles only, distant from Bristol eighty miles, and from London forty miles, and anticipating an equal liberality on the part of the commissioners there, no sum such a trust could be justified in giving to a general surveyor could repay even a moiety of the expense of superintendance; the reward for my services, then, must be looked for in the convincing proof that my father’s principles of road-making are, if possible, more applicable, and more beneficial in a trust where the materials are very bad than where they are good: my only object in troubling the Committee with these observations, is to show that unless a district of roads are united, the expense of a general superintendence would not be paid by any salary such trust could be justified in giving.

Can you state to the Committee the nature of the materials which you have employed in the different roads under your care?—At Epsom there are flints; at Reading a very small, foul gravel, with a thick adhesive loam attached; at Waltham Cross, on the Cheshunt roads, small foul gravel; towards Ware, flints; on the Wades-mill trust, flints; on the Royston trust, flint, gravel, and blue permet stone; at Huntingdon, flint, and gravel; Egham, flint and gravel.

Is there any particular method which you have employed out of the common practice, for making use of these materials?—I have bestowed great labour, care and attention in the preparation of these materials in the pits, and in their separation previous to their being brought upon the roads; and also much labour and care for a length of time after their being laid upon the road, until it became perfectly smooth, hard and level.

Can you state to the Committee the probable future expense of keeping these roads in repair, after they have once been put into good order, as compared with the annual outgoings under the old management?—I am of opinion that the expense of maintaining these roads in good condition will be considerably less than the former expenditure; for the reason, that the better a road is, the less the wear; and that there will be a less quantity of materials required, when properly prepared, than were formerly used, when they were brought to the road in a very foul and improper state.

Can you state generally, whether the proportion of labour, materials and cartage that you have described upon the Epsom trust, agrees with the same proportion upon the other roads under your management?—On some of the other roads, the proportion of labour to cartage will be found greater than upon the Epsom road. At Cheshunt, in five months, during which the roads have been put into good repair, I have expended the sum of 800_l._ forty of which alone was paid for cartage. Upon the Wades-mill trust, out of 600_l._ expended, not a sixpence was paid for cartage. Upon the Royston roads, where I have spent 500_l._ not any of it was paid for cartage. Upon the Huntingdon roads, I have spent 20_l._ a week, the whole of which has been paid in labour. At Reading, during eight months, 500_l._ were laid out, 400_l._ of which were paid for labour.

Is it your opinion, that the proportion of labour, wages, and cartage, is likely to continue the same, in the future reparation of the roads?—I am of opinion they will; because there will be an increase of labour, in the preparation of the materials, previous to their being brought to the road; and also in the formation of the road after they are laid on. By a more careful and proper preparation of the materials, a much less quantity will be required to uphold the roads than formerly; I am, therefore, of opinion, that the proportion of labour to cartage will continue the same.

It appears, by your answer to a former question, that the expense of cartage has been much diminished, owing to your making use of the materials of the old road; will not the proportionate expense of cartage for future years be increased in consequence of your no longer having the resource of breaking up the roads, but being obliged to repair them with fresh materials?—In some degree it certainly would.

In what way is the statute labour at present performed upon these roads?—Upon two of the trusts only, the Royston road and the Huntingdon road, I have had occasion to avail myself of any statute labour; the fund upon the other trusts being more than sufficient to uphold the roads without having recourse to statute labour. Upon these two trusts I have derived some small advantage from statute labour.

_Colonel Charles Brown_, called in; and Examined.

Are you one of the commissioners of the turnpike road upon the Cheshunt trust?—I am.

How long have you acted?—Several years, eight or ten years.

Be kind enough to explain to the Committee any recent improvements, which have taken place in the management and repairs of the roads within that trust?—Since the new method has been adopted by Mr. MᶜAdam, a very evident advantage has arisen to the roads; they are now extremely good, and were formerly very indifferent; I therefore attribute it solely to the present mode adopted by Mr. MᶜAdam for nothing can be better than the roads are at present.

Can you state to the Committee, whether the improvement has taken place with an increase or a diminution of the expense?—I believe at about one-third less; At least I understand that it was taken at about one-third less.