Chapter 2

"I came to Venice, and quickly took a survey of the whole model of the city, together with the most remarkable matters thereof; and shortly after any arrival in England I overcame any adversaries in the Town of Evill, in my native county of Somersetshire, who thought to have sunk me in a bargain of pilchards, as the _wise men of Gottam_ went about to drown an eel."

5. Dr. More's _Antidote against Atheism_, cap. ii. § 14.:

"But because so many bullets joggled together in a man's hat will settle a determinate figure, or because the frost and wind will draw upon doors and glass windows pretty uncouth streaks like feathers and other fooleries which are to no use or purpose, try infer thence, that all the contrivances that are in nature, even the frame of the bodies, both of men and beasts, are from no other principle but the jumbling together of the matter, and so because that this doth naturally effect something, that is the cause of all things, seems to me to be reasoning in the same mood and figure with that wise market man's, who, going down a hill and carrying his cheeses under his arms, one of them falling and trundling down the hill very fast, let the other go after it appointing them all to meet him at his house at _Gotham_, not doubting but they beginning so hopefully, would be able to make good the whole journey; or like another of the same town, who perceiving that his iron trevet he had bought had three feet, and could stand, expected also that it should walk too, and save him the labour of the carriage."

6. Col. T. Perronet Thompson's Works, vol. ii. p. 236., _Anti-Corn-Law Tracts_:--

"If fooleries of this kind go on, _Gotham_ will be put in Schedule A., and the representation of Unreason transferred into the West Riding."

J.R.M., M.A.

K.C.L. Nov. 26. 1850.

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HERSTMONCEUX CASTLE.

Can you find an early place in your pages for the following Queries relative to the history of Herstmonceux Castle and its lords, on which a memoir is in preparation for the next volume of the collections of the Sussex Archæological Society.

1. Who was Pharamuse of Boulogne, father of Sybil de Tingry? He is called the _nephew_ of Maud, King Stephen's wife; but I believe there is no doubt that she was the only child and sole heir of Eustace Earl of Boulogne, brother of Godfrey, King of Jerusalem. Where is _Tingry_, of which place he was lord? Is there any place in the North of France bearing that name now?

2. Will any one well skilled in the interpretation of ancient legal documents furnish some explanation of the following extracts from the _Rotul. de Fin._ (Hardy, i. 19.):--

"1199. William de Warburton and Ingelram de Monceux give 500 marks to the king for having the inheritance of Juliana, wife of William, son of Aymer, whose next of kin they say they are."

Yet six years later, 1205 (Hardy, i. 310 )--

"Waleran de Monceux gives 100 marks for having the reasonable (rationabilis) part of the inheritance of Juliana, as regards (versus) Wm. de Warburton, William and Waleran being her next of kin."

This Waleran was son of Idonea _de Herst_ (now Herst Monceux), and appears in other documents as "Waleran _de Herst_." The land in question was in _Compton_ (afterwards Compton _Monceux_), Hants.

Now how are we to reconcile the two above-quoted documents? What was the connexion {478} between Ingelram and Waleran? And how is Waleran's double appellation to be explained? I see a reference to a family named _de Mounceaux_ in the last number of the _Archæological Journal_, p. 300., holding a manor near Hawbridge, Somerset Were they of the same stock?

3. The magnificent monument in Herstmonceux church to Thomas Lord Dacre (who died 1534), and his eldest son, is embellished with a considerable number of coats of arms, several of which I am unable to identity with any connexions of the family. These are,--(1.) Sable, a cross or; (2.) Barry of six, ar. and az., a bend gules; (3.) Arg. a fesse gules; (4.) Quarterly or, and gules, an escarbuncle sable; (5.) Barry of six, arg. and gules; (6.) Azure, an orle of martlets or, on an inescutcheon arg. three bass gules.

Can any of your readers, acquainted with the Dacre and Fienes pedigrees, appropriate any of these coats?

4. A suite of small bed-rooms, and the gallery from which they opened, in Herstmonceux Castle, were called respectively the _Bethlem Chambers_ and _Bethlem Gallery_: is any instance of a similar denomination of apartments known, and can the reason be assigned?

5. Sir Roger Fienes, the builder of Herstmonceux Castle, accompanied Henry V. to Agincourt. Are any references to him to be found in Sir H. Nicolas' _Battle of Azincourt_, or elsewhere?

6. Francis Lord Dacre was one of the noble twelve who had the courage to appear in their places in the House of Lords and reject the ordinance for the trial of Charles I. His son Thomas, who married the daughter of Charles II. by the Duchess of Cleveland, and was created Earl of Sussex, was compelled through his extravagance to alienate the castle and manor of Herstmonceux. Are there any references to either of these peers, who played a not inconspicuous part in the events of their times, in any of the contemporary memoirs? Any information on any of the above points would greatly oblige

E.V.

Herstmonceux, Nov. 18.

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MINOR QUERIES.

_Yorkshire Ballads._--Any of your readers would confer a great favour by referring me to any early Yorkshire ballads, or ballads relating to places in Yorkshire, not reprinted in the ordinary collections, such as Percy, Evans, &c. I am of course acquainted with those in the Roxburghe collection.

H.

_Ringing a Handbell before a Corpse._--Is it true that whenever an interment takes place in Christ Church Cathedral, Oxford, the corpse is preceded on its way to the grave by a person who rings a small handbell at intervals, each time giving a few tinkling strokes? My informant on this subject was an Oxford undergraduate, who said that he had recently witnessed the burials both of Mr. ----, a late student of Christ Church, and of Miss ----, daughter of a living bishop: and he assured me that in both cases this ceremony was observed. Certainly it is possible to go through the academical course at Oxford without either hearing the bell, or knowing of its use on such occasions: but I should now be glad to receive some explanation of this singular custom.

A.G.

Ecclesfield.

_Church of St. Saviour, Canterbury._--Tradition, I believe, has uniformly represented that an edifice more ancient, but upon the present site of St. Martin's, Canterbury, was used by St. Augustine and his followers in the earliest age of Christianity in this country. St. Martin's has, on that account, been often spoken of as the mother-church of England. Lately, however, in perusing the fourth volume of Mr. Kemble's _Codex Diplomaticus_, p. 1. I find a charter of King Canute, of the year 1018, which states the church of ST. SAVIOUR, _Canterbury_, to be the mother-church of England:

"Æcclesia Salvatoris in Dorobernia sita, omnium Æcclesiarum regni Angligeni _mater et domina_."

In none of the histories of Kent or of Canterbury can I find any mention of a church dedicated to St. Saviour. May I beg the favour of you to insert this among your Notes?

HENRY ELLIS.

_Mock Beggar's Hall._--What is the origin of this name as applied to some old mansions? One at Wallasey, in Cheshire, was so named, and another near Ipswich, in Suffolk. And what is the earliest instance of the title?

BURIENSIS.

_Beatrix Lady Talbot._--Since the publication of Sir Harris Nicolas' able contribution to the _Collectanea Topographica et Genealogica_ (vol. i. pp. 80-90.) no one may be excused for confounding, as Dugdale and his followers had done, Beatrix Lady Talbot with Donna Beatrix, daughter of John, King of Portugal, to whom Thomas FitzAlan, Earl of Arundel, was married, 26th Nov., 1405. What I now wish to learn is, whether anything has since been discovered to elucidate further the pedigree of Lady Talbot? It is evident that she was of Portuguese origin; and it may be inferred from the quarterings on her seal, as shown in a manuscript in the British Museum (1st and 4th arg., five escutcheons in cross az., each charged with five plates in saltire, for _Portugal_; and 2nd and 3rd az., five crescents in saltire, or), that she was a member of the Portuguese family of Pinto, which is the only house in Portugal that bears the five crescents in saltire, as displayed on the seal.

SCOTUS.

{479}

_English Prize Essays._--Is there at present, in either of the universities, or elsewhere, any prize, medal, or premium given for English essays, for which all England could compete, irrespective of birth, place of education, &c.; and, if so, particulars as to where such could be obtained, would greatly oblige

MODEST AMBITION.

_Rev. Joseph Blanco White._--_History of the Inquisition._--In the Rev. J.H. Thom's _Life of the Rev. Joseph Blanco White_ it is stated that he had made a collection for a history of the Inquisition which he intended to publish; and in a batch of advertisements preceding the first volume of Smedley's _Reformed Religion in France_, published in 1832 by Rivingtons, as part of their Theological Library. I find an announcement of other works to be included in the series, and amongst others, already in preparation, _The Origin and Growth of the Roman Catholic Inquisition against Heresy and Apostacy_; by Joseph Blanco White, M.A. I need not ask whether the work was _published_, for it is not to be found in the London Catalogue; but I wish to ask whether any portion of the work was ever placed in the publisher's hands, or ever printed; or whether he made any considerable progress in the collection, and, if so, in whose hands the MSS. are? Such papers, if they exist, would probably prove of too much importance to allow of their remaining unpublished.

IOTA.

_Lady Deloraine._--The _Delia_ of Pope's line,

"Slander or poison dread from _Delia's_ rage,"

is supposed to have been Lady Deloraine, who remarried W. Windam, Esq., of Carsham, and died in Oct., 1744. The person said to have been poisoned was a Miss Mackenzie. Are the grounds of this strange suspicion known?

EDWARD F. RIMBAULT.

_Speke Family._--I shall be glad to ascertain the family name and the armorial bearings of Alice, wife of Sir John Speke, father of Sir John Speke, founder of the chapel of St. George in Exeter Cathedral. She is said to have been maid of honour to Queen Catherine.

J.D.S.

_Pope's Villa._--In Pope's _Literary Correspondence_, published by Curll, an engraving, is advertised of his (Pope's) Villa at Twickenham, engraved by Rysbrach and published by Curll. Are any of your correspondents aware of the existence of a copy, and the price at which it can be obtained?

C. BATHURST W.

_Armorial Bearings._--Among the numerous coats-armorial in the great east window of the choir of Exeter Cathedral, there is one respecting which I am at a loss. Argent a cross between four crescents gules. Can either of your readers kindly afford the name?

J.D.S.

_Passage from Tennyson._--You have so many correspondents well versed in lore and legend, that I am induced to beg through you for an explanation of the allusion contained in the following passage of Tennyson:--

"Morn broaden'd on the borders of the dark, Ere I saw her, who clasp'd in her last trance Her murder'd father's head."

It occurs in the _Dream of Fair Women_, st. 67.

W.M.C.

Cambridge.

_Sauenap, Meaning of._--In the will of Jane Heryng, of Bury, 1419, occurs this bequest:--

"To Alyson my dowter, xl s. and ij pottys of bras neste the beste, and a peyr bedys of blak _get_, and a grene hod, and a red hod, and a gowne of violet, and another of tanne, and a towayll of diaper werk, and a _sauenap_; also a cloke and rownd table."

What was the _sauenap_?

BURIENSIS.

_Hoods worn by Doctors of the University of Cambridge._--Pray permit me to inquire, through your agency, what is the proper lining of the scarlet cloth hoods worn by doctors in the three faculties of the university of Cambridge? The robe-makers of Cambridge have determined upon a pink or rose-coloured silk for all; the London artists adopt a shot silk (light blue and crimson) sometimes for all faculties, at others for Doctors in Divinity only. On ancient monuments (there is one in Canterbury Cathedral) I find that the hoods were lined with ermine; and this is the material of those attached to the full-dress robes of doctors on the occasion of their creation, and in the schools, and at congregations. I cannot find the statutes bearing upon the subject.

As the Oxford statutes have recently been published, the matter is not so much in the dark,--black silk being the material prescribed for the lining of hoods of Doctors in Divinity, and those of the doctors in the other faculties being prescribed to be of _silk of any intermediate colour_, which the Oxford doctors understand to mean a deep rose-colour.

D.C.L.

U. University Club, Dec. 4. 1850.

_Euclid and Aristotle._--The ordinary chronologies place Aristotle as nearly a century anterior to Euclid; but Professor De Morgan ("Eucleides," in Dr. Smith's _Biographical Dictionary_) considers them as contemporary. Any of your readers conversant with the subject will oblige me by saying _which_ is right, and likewise _why_ so.

GEOMETRICUS.

_Ventriloquism. Fanningus the King's Whisperer._--To the Query respecting Brandon the juggler (Vol. ii., p. 424.), I beg leave to add another somewhat similar. Where is any information to be obtained of "The King's Whisperer, [Greek: engastrimythos], nomine Fanningus, who resided at Oxford in 1643?"

T.J.

{480}

_Frances Lady Norton._--Can any of your readers give me an account of the life of Frances Lady Norton, who wrote a work, entitled _The Applause of Virtue, in Four Parts, consisting of Divine and Moral Essays towards the obtaining of True Virtue_, 4to. 1705? It is a very delightful book, full of patristic learning. I am aware she was the daughter of Ralph Freke, Esq., of Hannington, and married Sir George Norton, Knt. of Abbot's Leigh, in the county of Somerset. I wish to know what other books she wrote, if any, and where her life may be found? Perhaps the Freke family could furnish an account of this learned lady. The work I believe to be extremely scarce.

RICHARD HOOPER.

_Westminster Wedding._--Jeremy Collier says, in one of his _Essays_ (Part iii. Essay viii.):

"As for the business of friendship you mentioned, 'tis not to be had at a _Westminster Wedding_."

Being much interested in weddings in Westminster at the present day, I should be much obliged to any of your readers who can throw any light on the observation of the Essayist, as above cited. What other authors use the term?

R.H.

_Stone's Diary._--Stone, the celebrated sculptor, left a valuable diary. The MS. was in the possession of Vertue the engraver. Has it ever been printed?

EDWARD F. RIMBAULT.

_Dr. King's Poem of The Toast._--Where can I find a key to Dr. King's _Heroic Poem_, called _The Toast?_ Isaac Reed's copy, with a _manuscript key_, sold at his sale for 10l. 10s.

EDWARD F. RIMBAULT.

_Anima Magis, &c._--To whom is this sentence to be ascribed--

"Anima magis est ubi amat Quam ubi animat."

TYRO-ETYMOLOGICUS.

_The Adventures of Peter Wilkins._--Is the author of this delightful work of fiction known? The first edition was published in 1751, but it does not contain the dedication to Elizabeth, Countess of Northumberland, found in later impressions. When was this dedication added? It is observable that in all the editions I have seen, the initials R.P. are signed to the dedication, while R.S. appears on the title-page.

EDWARD F. RIMBAULT.

_Talmud, Translations of._--1. Have there been any English translations of the Talmud, or any complete section of it? 2. What are the most esteemed Continental and Latin translations?

S.P.H.T.

_Torn by Horses._--What is the last instance in the history of France of a culprit being torn by horses? Jean Châtel, who attempted to assassinate Henri Quatre, suffered thus in 1595. (Crowe's _France_, i. 364.)

ED. S. JACKSON.

_The Marks_ *, [obelus], [diesis], _&c._--What is the origin of the asterisk, obelus, &c., used for references to notes? When were they first used? What are their proper names?

ED. S. JACKSON.

Totteridge, Herts, Oct. 23.

_Blackguard._--Walking once through South Wales, we found an old woman by the roadside selling a drink she called _blackguard_. It was composed of beer and gin, spiced with pepper, and well deserved its name. Is this a common beverage in the principality?

J.W.H.

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REPLIES.

CHURCH HISTORY SOCIETY.

I am much obliged to your correspondent LAICUS for his inquiry respecting the proposed Society (Vol. ii., p. 464). Will you allow me to express to him my confident hope, that the proposed plan, or some modification of it by a committee (when one shall exist) may in due time be carried out. But there seems to be no reason for haste; and in the formation of such body it is desirable to have as many avowed supporters to select from as possible. I do not think that the matter is much known yet, though I have to thank you for a kind notice; and I need not tell some of your correspondents that I have received very encouraging letters. But, in truth, as I did not expect any profit, or desire any responsibility as to either money or management, and only wished to lay before the public an idea which had existed in my own mind for some years, and which had obtained the sanction of some whom I thought competent judges; and as I had, moreover, published pamphlets enough to know that a contribution of waste paper to any object is often one of the most costly, I did not feel myself called on to go to so much expense in advertising as I perhaps might have done if I had been spending the money of a society instead of my own. I sent but few copies; none, I believe, except to persons with whom I had some acquaintance, and whom I thought likely to take more or less interest in the subject.

I trust, however, that the matter is quietly and solidly growing; and from communications which I have received, and resources on which I believe I may reckon, I feel no doubt that if it were considered desirable, friends and money enough to set such a society going might be immediately brought forward. It is one advantage of the proposed plan, that it may be tried on almost any scale. A society so constituted would NOT begin its existence {481} with great promises of returns to subscribers, and heavy engagements to printers, papermakers, and editors. Its only _necessary_ expenses would be those of _management_; and if the society were very small, these expenses would be so too. It is, indeed, hardly possible to imagine that they should be such as not to leave something to be funded for future use, if they did not furnish means for immediate display; but it seems better to wait patiently until such real substantial support is guaranteed as may prevent all apprehension on that score.

S.R. MAITLAND.

* * * * *

DEFENDER OF THE FAITH.

(Vol. ii., p. 442.)

It is quite startling to be told that the title of "Defender of the Faith" was used by any royal predecessor of Henry VIII.

Selden (_Titles of Honour_, ed 1631, p. 54) says:

"The beginning and ground of that attribute of DEFENDER OF THE FAITH, which hath been perpetually, in the later ages, added to the style of the kings of England, (not only in the first person, but frequent also in the second and in the third, as common use shows in the formality of instruments of conveyance, leases and such like) is most certainly known. It began in Henry the VIII. For he, in those awaking times, upon the quarrel of the Romanists and Lutherans, wrote a volume against Luther," &c.

Selden then states the well-known occasion upon which this title was conferred, and sets out the Bull of Leo X. (then extant in the Collection of Sir Robert Cotton, and now in the British Museum), whereby the Pope, "holding it just to distinguish those who have undertaken such pious labours for defending the faith of Christ with every honour and commendation," decrees that to the title of King the subjects of the royal controversialist shall add the title "Fidei Defensori." The pontiff adds, that a more worthy title could not be found.

Your correspondent, COLONEL ANSTRUTHER, calls attention to the statement made by Mr. Christopher Wren, Secretary of the Order of the Garter (A.D. 1736), in his letter to Francis Peck, on the authority of the Register of the Order in his possession; which letter is quoted by Burke (_Dorm. and Ext. Bar._, iv. 408.), that "King Henry VII. had the title Defender of the Faith." It is not found in any acts or instruments of his reign that I am acquainted with, nor in the proclamation on his interment, nor in any of the epitaphs engraved on his magnificent tomb. (Sandford, _Geneal. Hist._) Nor is it probable that Pope Leo X., in those days of diplomatic intercourse with England, would have bestowed on Henry VIII., as a special and personal distinction and reward, a title that had been used by his royal predecessors.

I am not aware that any such title is attributed to the sovereign in any of the English records anterior to 1521; but that many English kings gloried in professing their zeal to defend the Church and religion, appears from many examples. Henry IV., in the second year of his reign, promises to maintain and defend the Christian religion (_Rot. Parl._, iii. 466.); and on his renewed promise, in the fourth year of his reign, to defend the Christian faith, the Commons piously grant a subsidy (_Ibid._, 493.); and Henry VI., in the twentieth year of his reign, acts as keeper of the Christian faith. (_Rot. Parl._, v. 61.)

In the admonition used in the investiture of a knight with the insignia of the Garter, he is told to take the crimson robe, and being therewith defended, to be bold to fight and shed his blood for Christ's faith, the liberties of the Church, and the defence of the oppressed. In this sense, the sovereign and every knight became a sworn defender of the faith. Can this duty have come to be popularly attributed as part of the royal style and title?

The Bull of Leo X., which confers the title on Henry VIII. personally, does not make it inheritable by his successors, so that none but that king himself could claim the honour. The Bull granted two years afterwards by Clement VII. merely confirms the grant of Pope Leo to the king himself. It was given, as we know, for his assertion of doctrines of the Church of Rome; yet he retained it after his separation from the Roman Catholic communion, and after it had been formally revoked and withdrawn by Pope Paul III. in the twenty-seventh year of Henry VIII., upon the king's apostacy in turning suppressor of religious houses. In 1543, the Reformation legislature and the Anti-papal king, without condescending to notice any Papal Bulls, assumed to treat the title that the Pope had given and taken away as a subject of Parliamentary gift, and annexed it for ever to the English crown by the statute 35 Hen. VIII. c. 3., from which I make the following extract, as its language bears upon the question: