Part 71

Mr. HUBERT. And he said what you have just said, and that is all?

Mrs. CABELL. He hung up before I did. So Officer Beaty picked up the phone and called his superior. I had said to him, "Please ask what to do about our guests." Because there had always been the thinking among the security officers, the possibility of a bomb being thrown at the house.

Mr. HUBERT. Let me ask you, was your unlisted phone number carefully guarded or kept?

Mrs. CABELL. No, no. It was given to our church. It was given to the press. They all had it. They had to talk to Earle. It was given to some organizations to which we belonged. The thinking on our part was that we wanted to be available to responsible people. It was merely the crank calls that we were trying to avoid after Earle went in office.

Mr. HUBERT. So it was rather widely disseminated, and I suppose recorded by those people?

Mrs. CABELL. Who it had been given to; that's right. So it was not an impossible number to obtain. It couldn't be in Earle's position.

Mr. STOREY. (after shortly entering the room). Mr. Hubert, I might say I had trouble in finding it the one time I wanted to call the mayor.

Mr. HUBERT. Well, Mrs. Cabell, I have nothing more to ask you. If you have anything you would like to say concerning the subjects we have covered, or anything else pertinent to the inquiry, we would be glad to hear from you.

Mrs. CABELL. I do not know of anything that would be of any help except that from Earle's experience at Tupinamba, that somebody knew when those police cars pulled in and out of that driveway. There was always one facing the street. They were not squad cars. They were cars that the Special Service men drove. They were Galaxies, different color, but they all carried the license that people who knew about things like that could recognize them as being a police car. One evening Chief Curry called and talked to my husband and said things had been so quiet that if you and Mrs. Cabell feel all right about it, I am going to bring the boys in. And my husband said, "Now Chief, that has always been up to you. Whatever you think, is what we want you to do. Within 30 minutes, I would say, after the security officers and the cars had gone, a threatening call came through the police switchboard, so within another 30 minutes the security was back.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember what that was?

Mrs. CABELL. No; I cannot give you the date.

Mr. HUBERT. How did you come to know of it?

Mrs. CABELL. I didn't know it until the next morning. The boys didn't come in the house that night. Earle didn't know it. We have a very trusted colored man who has been with us 26 years, and when he used his own key to come in the house next morning, I said, "Well, Phillip, I guess you miss our friends." And he said, "Mrs. Cabell, they haven't gone. They are outside." And I looked out the kitchen window and there they were. I went out----

Mr. HUBERT. You don't know, do you, whether that threatening call made reference to the fact that the security had been removed?

Mrs. CABELL. No; I do not. But the thinking on the part of the police was that somebody was watching that driveway, because the call came in within 30 minutes after the car had gone.

Mr. HUBERT. Have you anything else that you wish to say?

Mrs. CABELL. Only that, and days again escape me--I think it was the day of the President's funeral, my husband was in Washington. This can be verified, because by that time all of our phone calls were recorded. The phone rang early one afternoon, and I picked it up, and this man's voice said, "Mrs. Cabell." I said "Yes." He said, "This is so-and-so--and the name I did not catch, or recall--said "I am with one of the news media. I would like to come out for an interview." Or words to that effect. And I said, "Well, Mr. Cabell is not here. You will have to talk to him about that." Then he said to me, "How heavily are you being guarded out there? Do you still have security?" And I don't know what I said, but I put it off. I passed it off. And by that time I had motioned to the security man that was in the next room, and he picked up the receiver, but the man had hung up by that time.

Mr. HUBERT. You mentioned that your calls were being recorded as early as the date of the President's funeral?

Mrs. CABELL. No; earlier.

Mr. HUBERT. Earlier?

Mrs. CABELL. Because the telephone men were out there within an hour after the shooting of Oswald.

Mr. HUBERT. They set up a recordation system whereby all calls could be recorded?

Mrs. CABELL. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. Was that still on at the time of New Year's Eve?

Mrs. CABELL. No.

Mr. HUBERT. When was that removed?

Mrs. CABELL. I can't tell you. Sometime during that 2 months, but I cannot say when.

Mr. HUBERT. But you do not think it was on at the time of the New Year's Eve call?

Mrs. CABELL. I am sure it wasn't, because the little recording machine, or whatever it was, had been----

Mr. HUBERT. Soundscriber?

Mrs. CABELL. Had been removed, and I believe I am correct in saying that that was removed at the time, and I can't give you a date, that they cut down to only two officers at a time being with us. For a long time there were two with me and two with Earle and two at the house.

Mr. HUBERT. Mrs. Cabell, I don't think there was actually any conversation much before the recordation of your deposition began between us, but in any case, I think you will agree with me that nothing was covered during the unrecorded conversation we had that has not been recorded here?

Mrs. CABELL. As far as I know; that is true.

Mr. HUBERT. Thank you very much, ma'am.

Mrs. CABELL. Thank you.

TESTIMONY OF PHILLIP L. WILLIS

The testimony of Phillip L. Willis was taken at 2:30 p.m., on July 22, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. LIEBELER. Would you raise your right hand [standing]? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. WILLIS. I do.

Mr. LIEBELER. Please sit down. My name is Wesley J. Liebeler. I am an attorney on the staff of the President's Commission investigating the assassination of President Kennedy. I have been authorized to take your testimony by the Commission pursuant to authority granted to it by Executive Order No. 11130, dated November 29, 1963, and joint resolution of Congress No. 137. Under the rules of the Commission's procedure, you are entitled to have an attorney present if you wish to have him here. You are entitled to 3 days' notice for the hearing, and you are entitled to exercise whatever privileges there are available to you as far as not answering questions are concerned. I assume that you are prepared to go ahead with your testimony without an attorney present, because you are here without one?

Mr. WILLIS. Absolutely.

Mr. LIEBELER. Would you state your full name for the record, please?

Mr. WILLIS. Phillip L. Willis.

Mr. LIEBELER. What is your address, sir?

Mr. WILLIS. 2824 Ava Lane, Dallas 27, Tex.

Mr. LIEBELER. When were you born?

Mr. WILLIS. August 2, 1918.

Mr. LIEBELER. Where?

Mr. WILLIS. Kaufman County, Tex.

Mr. LIEBELER. Have you lived in Texas throughout most of your life?

Mr. WILLIS. All my life, with the exception of my military service.

Mr. LIEBELER. How long have you lived here in Dallas?

Mr. WILLIS. Since April 1, 1960.

Mr. LIEBELER. What business are you engaged in, or by whom are you employed?

Mr. WILLIS. I am a retired major, Air Force, disabled World War II, and I am on disability retirement from the Air Force. I am an independent real estate broker.

Mr. LIEBELER. It is my understanding that you were in the vicinity of the Texas School Book Depository Building on November 22, 1963, at the time of the assassination; is that correct?

Mr. WILLIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell me where you were and what you saw happen, and what you did at that time?

Mr. WILLIS. I had a driver drop my family and I in the parkway so that we could have a chance to get a good view of the President's party, having taken my children out of school for the occasion. We were told by the policeman that they were coming down from Main Street approaching the area on Main, and I stood at the corner of Main and Houston and watched them approach. I am an amateur photographer, a poor one, but we wanted to get some good colored pictures of the President. So I photographed the President coming in front of the courthouse and making the turn onto Houston Street.

Mr. LIEBELER. Where did you station yourself at first? Were you at the corner, you say?

Mr. WILLIS. At the corner of Houston and Main.

Mr. LIEBELER. So that you saw him----

Mr. WILLIS. Across from the county jail on the parkway there near the esplanade.

Mr. LIEBELER. So you saw the motorcade coming down Main Street, did you?

Mr. WILLIS. Yes; we could see it for a block or two.

Mr. LIEBELER. Then the motorcade turned onto Houston and you took some pictures at that time?

Mr. WILLIS. I remained there until I got the shot of the President approaching the turn onto Houston Street, and being a personal friend of then Vice President Lyndon Johnson, we were anxious to get him in one, and did. Then I took a picture as they turned onto Houston Street. Then another one from the rear after they proceeded down Houston approaching the turn they were to make onto Elm. Then I immediately ran across the plaza, raced over to Elm Street and stationed myself on the curb in front of the Texas School Book Depository.

Mr. LIEBELER. You were there when the motorcade made a left turn on Houston and went down Elm Street; is that correct?

Mr. WILLIS. Yes; and I photographed the President. I was standing in front of the curb, as is shown in Life magazine, on the edge of the street, and I photographed the presidential car at not more than 10 feet because I didn't get the front or the rear of the car. I just got the occupants in the center. I was that close.

Mr. LIEBELER. Now you have indicated that you are depicted in a picture which is in the John F. Kennedy Memorial Edition of Life magazine in a picture that you said you were in the upper left-hand corner of page 4; is that correct?

Mr. WILLIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER. You are the individual who stands almost directly behind the first motorcycle policeman in that picture, and you are shown with a camera?

Mr. WILLIS. With my camera raised; yes, sir. The little girl in the red dress and white scarf and coat is my daughter.

Mr. LIEBELER. The farthest person in the right in the back of that picture?

Mr. WILLIS. The farthest person in that picture.

Mr. LIEBELER. Now did you stand at that particular spot the entire time, or did you move down Elm Street?

Mr. WILLIS. No, sir; I took that picture just seconds before the first shot was fired, to get back close up. Then I started down the street, and the regular weekly edition of Life magazine came out and shows me in about three different pictures going down the street. Then my next shot was taken at the very--in fact, the shot caused me to squeeze the camera shutter, and I got a picture of the President as he was hit with the first shot. So instantaneous, in fact, that the crowd hadn't had time to react.

Mr. LIEBELER. Now you have, as I understand it, a series of 12 slides, which apparently have been prepared by something called Phil Willis Enterprises, and which I understand is being marketed, at least in the Dallas area?

Mr. WILLIS. We haven't done anything with them as yet, but I am the only one, I am told, who has a complete set of the prints covering the last 25 seconds of the President's life and the assassination and the tragedy following.

I was so shocked I didn't sell any, like everyone did at the moment. And the same people who bought those said they would have been invaluable had I brought them to them, but it didn't dawn on me to do that. And later there has been so many requests because of the historical nature, that we felt compelled to make them available to the public.

Mr. LIEBELER. I have here a picture that has been marked Hudson Exhibit No. 1, which I now show you and I suggest to you that it is one of the pictures that is a picture made from one of the slides.

Mr. WILLIS. I made that picture.

Mr. LIEBELER. You made that picture yourself?

Mr. WILLIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER. That is the same as slide No. 5? In your series of slides?

Mr. WILLIS. That is correct.

Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell us when that picture was made?

Mr. WILLIS. That picture was made at the very instant that the first shot was fired. As a matter of fact, the fellow standing on the ledge under the right-hand corner of the Stemmons Highway sign is a gentleman who took the last pictures that appeared in Life, and his pictures showed that this instant with this sign in between the photographer and the President, shows that at this instant he had already grabbed his throat.

This was pointed out to the Secret Service and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Picture No. 2 will verify that, in Life magazine. You see the highway sign that he has the rear of, is the one I have the front of. And as he approached this same sign in this film, he has already grabbed his throat. That is verified by that fact.

Mr. LIEBELER. Referring to the pictures on page 4 of the memorial edition of Life magazine. Picture No. 1 shows you standing, as we have already indicated, standing back with your camera?

Mr. WILLIS. Picture 2 shows the President just as the car comes from behind this sign, and it shows that he has already reached for his throat at that time.

Mr. LIEBELER. The sign in question is one that reads "Stemmons Freeway Keep Right", and the front of that sign appears in the picture that you took which is marked Hudson Exhibit No. 1?

Mr. WILLIS. The only one in that vicinity. It has to be the same one. You will also note in my first picture, he is facing the outside of the street and smiling and waving, and he had already turned his head the other way when I have the picture in question here from the rear.

That same picture from the other side of the street in Life shows he has grabbed his throat when they proceeded to that point of the sign in question.

Mr. LIEBELER. Go through that again. I didn't understand it. Let me remind you of this. When you mention a picture, let's try and refer to them by numbers, because if you do that, I won't have to repeat it again, because we have to get the numbers down on the record. You were making a point just a minute ago about something that I didn't understand. You were referring to some of the pictures in Life magazine, and also to Hudson Exhibit No. 1, which is the picture you took.

Mr. WILLIS. All right, sir, Hudson Exhibit No. 1, which is a copy of the picture I took, shows the President's car had proceeded almost past the "Stemmons Freeway Keep Right" sign. Referring back to panel No. 2 of the Life Memorial Edition of Life magazine on page 4, it shows that Mrs. Kennedy has her hand over her mouth, and the President has already grabbed his throat. That picture shows that his car has not passed the Stemmons sign completely.

Mr. LIEBELER. Yes.

Mr. WILLIS. Referring back to Hudson Exhibit No. 1, which I took, the President's car in fact has passed the Stemmons sign, and he has turned the opposite direction from the previous picture that I took close up, and it proves without question that at this instant the President had been hit.

Mr. LIEBELER. Now, you mentioned the picture that you took, the other picture that you took close up. Is that included in your set of slides here?

Mr. WILLIS. Yes, sir; it is slide No. 4, which you see doesn't include the front or the rear of the President's car, but the center. That is proving how close it was.

Mr. LIEBELER. Picture No. 4 in your group of slides was taken shortly before picture No. 5 was taken, is that right?

Mr. WILLIS. Yes, sir; not more than 3 seconds.

Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know which picture you were taking or you took at the time that is shown here in panel No. 1 of this memorial edition of Life magazine?

Mr. WILLIS. Yes, sir; the number just mentioned, slide No. 4, the closeup of the President directly in front of the Texas School Book Depository.

Mr. LIEBELER. Now from the time that you took No. 4, and when you took No. 4, you were standing as shown in picture No. 1 in Life magazine?

Mr. WILLIS. Correct.

Mr. LIEBELER. What did you do before you took No. 5, which we have marked here as Hudson Exhibit No. 1? Did you move down the street, or were you standing in the same place, or do you remember?

Mr. WILLIS. No, sir; as human nature would guide in an instance of this importance, I moved down the street slightly to try to get another view, and, of course, I had the camera looking through the viewfinder to try to get another picture of him before he went out of range. I moved as far as I could within that 3 seconds.

Mr. LIEBELER. So you are not able to tell us exactly where you were when you took the picture that we have here as Hudson Exhibit No. 1, but it was a little bit farther on down Elm Street, still on the grassy area described by Elm and Main Street; is that correct?

Mr. WILLIS. Yes, sir; I can verify that where I was going back to Life magazine again, because this picture No. 2 on page 4 of the John F. Kennedy Memorial Edition of Life, there is a tree in the background. The only tree in that immediate vicinity on that side of the street. And the shadow of that tree is shown in slide No. 5 that I took, which would show my position.

Mr. LIEBELER. Yes. I see you would have to study just from where the sun was coming, but it could be determined where you were standing, and we could also apparently determine it by lining it up with across the street?

Mr. WILLIS. Off the record. Let me say this. You see in No. 1 shot where I am shown, you can see this shadow on the ground from this tree. This little bush--there is the shadow from the tree. This tree is on the ground, so if you look in my picture here, you can see the shadow in that picture. So you see that I did move down approximately this far.

Mr. LIEBELER. All right. Now, you are certain that the first shot was fired at approximately the time or shortly at approximately the time you took the picture that has been marked Hudson Exhibit No. 1; is that right?

Mr. WILLIS. I am positive.

Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember hearing the shot?

Mr. WILLIS. Absolutely. I, having been in World War II, and being a deer hunter hobbyist, I would recognize a high-powered rifle immediately.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you recognize this as a high-powered rifle?

Mr. WILLIS. Absolutely.

Mr. LIEBELER. And you heard it just about the time you took the picture that has been marked?

Mr. WILLIS. That's right.

Mr. LIEBELER. Prior to the time you took the picture, which is marked Hudson Exhibit No. 1?

Mr. WILLIS. Absolutely.

Mr. LIEBELER. How many shots were fired altogether, Mr. Willis?

Mr. WILLIS. Three shots.

Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any question about that at all?

Mr. WILLIS. No, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you follow the car down Elm Street after you took the picture, which we have marked Hudson Exhibit No. 1?

Mr. WILLIS. I proceeded down the street and didn't take any other pictures instantly, because the three shots were fired approximately about 2 seconds apart, and I knew my little daughters were running along beside the Presidential car, and I was immediately concerned about them, and I was screaming for them to come back, and they didn't hear me. But I was concerned about them immediately, because I knew something tragic had happened, and the shots didn't ring out long like a rifle shot that is fired into midair in a distance. I knew it hit something, and it couldn't have been a firecracker or anything like that, so it impressed me, I remember, and after I found my daughters, I saw they were heading back toward their mother.

Mr. LIEBELER. Where was she?

Mr. WILLIS. She was back in the crowd looking through this concrete structure. How do you refer to that?

Mr. LIEBELER. Well, your wife was back closer toward the intersection of Main Street and Houston Street?

Mr. WILLIS. No; it is a very short distance when you stand in here. No; that is the one across the street--no; here she was. She was in between Main, and Elm Streets, but real near Elm Street. In fact, she was only a few feet back from my daughters. She wasn't more than 40 feet from where the President was hit.

Mr. LIEBELER. So she was toward the triple underpass from the concrete structure on Dealey Plaza?

Mr. WILLIS. She was inside the concrete structure looking through an opening.

Mr. LIEBELER. Looking toward the triple underpass?

Mr. WILLIS. Toward the Texas School Book Depository where she had a clear view, and there were surprisingly few people there at that time--at that moment--and none in between her and the street to block her vision.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you actually observe the President when he was hit in the head?

Mr. WILLIS. No, sir; I did not. I couldn't see that well, and I was more concerned about the shots coming from that building. The minute the third shot was fired, I screamed, hoping the policeman would hear me, to ring that building because it had to come from there. Being directly across the street from the building, made it much more clear to those standing there than the people who were on the side of the street where the building was.

Mr. LIEBELER. So you thought you had picked out a particular building at the time when you heard the shots?

Mr. WILLIS. Absolutely.

Mr. LIEBELER. What building was that?

Mr. WILLIS. The Texas School Book Depository Building.

Mr. LIEBELER. You were pretty sure?

Mr. WILLIS. I felt certain. I even looked for smoke, and I knew it came from high up.

Mr. LIEBELER. How did you know that?

Mr. WILLIS. I even observed the clock on top of the building, it was 12:33 when I looked up there.

Mr. LIEBELER. The clock on top of the School Book Depository?

Mr. WILLIS. There is a Hertz sign on top of the building, and it alternates the time of day and the temperature, and when I looked up, it was 12:33, and the temperature was 68 degrees, as shown in my slide on No. 12.

Mr. LIEBELER. So you did not actually observe the President at the time he was hit in the head?

Mr. WILLIS. No, sir; I was just taking a picture of him, and the presidential party in the car come through my viewfinder and my camera. But my little daughter ran back and said, "Oh, Daddy, they have shot our President. His whole head blew up, and it looked like a red halo."

Mr. LIEBELER. Which one? Is this the girl that is here today?

Mr. WILLIS. The little one was the one that made that remark. My youngest daughter, Rosemary. The one that is with me today also saw it, and she went back and told her mother the same thing. And her mother said, "Yes; I saw it."

Mr. LIEBELER. Now, did you see anything hitting in the street along the President's car as it went down Elm Street?

Mr. WILLIS. No, sir; I did not.

Mr. LIEBELER. You say there were three shots fired? You heard three shots fired?

Mr. WILLIS. Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you think that the President had been hit by the first shot?

Mr. WILLIS. I didn't really know, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER. You couldn't tell whether he was hit by the first shot? You couldn't tell whether he had been hit by the first shot or the second shot or the third shot, or by how many shots he had been hit?