Part 57

Before me, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared Lt. J. C. Day, Dallas Police Department, who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:

The following affidavit is made to clear up confusion regarding the three spent 6.5 hulls, commission numbers 543, 544, and 545, found by the 6th floor window of the Texas School Book Depository on November 22, 1963. The hulls were picked up by Detective R. M. Sims and Lieutenant J. C. Day and placed in an envelope. Detective R. L. Studebaker was also present. The envelope was marked and dated by Sims and Day. Detective Sims took the hulls after they were checked for fingerprints by Day. The third hull, commission number 545, was later released directly to the FBI by the Dallas Police Department Homicide Division. At 10:00 P.M. November 22, 1963, Detective C. N. Dhority brought the three hulls in the marked envelope back to Lieutenant Day in the Identification Bureau office to recheck for prints. Dhority retained one hull, commission number 545 and left the other two, commission numbers 543, 544 along with the envelope with me to be sent to the FBI. Vince Drain, FBI agent, took custody at 11:45 A.M. the same day. When I appeared before the commission April 22, 1964, I could not find my name on one of the hulls, identified as commission number 543, and thought this was the hull that had been retained by Dhority. On June 8, 1964, the three hulls, commission numbers 543, 544, and 545, were back in Dallas and were examined by Captain G. M. Doughty and myself at the local FBI office. Close examination with a magnifying glass under a good light disclosed that my name "Day" was on all three hulls, at the small end. Also GD for Captain George Doughty was on two of them. Commission numbers 543 and 544 were the first two sent to Washington on November 22, 1963. They have Doughty's initials where he marked the hulls as they were released to Vince Drain at 11:45 P.M. on November 22, 1963 by Doughty and Day. The third hull, commission number 545, does not have Doughty's mark, but is plainly marked "Day". In Washington, I had numbers 543 and 545 switched because I didn't find my name on number 543. I can identify commission numbers 543, 544, and 545 from my name on them, as the three hulls found on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository on November 22, 1963. As to the time I scratched my name on the hulls, I do not remember whether it was at the window when picked up or at 10:00 P.M. November 22, 1963, when they were returned to me by Dhority in the marked envelope. It had to be one or the other, because this is the only time I had all three hulls in my possession. Both Detective R. L. Studebaker and Detective R. M. Sims, who were present at the window when the hulls were picked up, state I marked them as they were found under the window.

Signed this 23d day of June 1964.

(S) J. C. Day, J. C. DAY.

AFFIDAVIT OF THOMAS J. KELLEY

The following affidavit was executed by Thomas J. Kelley on June 1, 1964.

AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

CITY OF WASHINGTON, _District of Columbia, ss_:

I, Thomas J. Kelley, being first duly sworn do upon oath depose and state:

I am an Inspector in the United States Secret Service assigned to Secret Service Headquarters in Washington, D.C. On November 22, 1963, I was not in the City of Dallas at the time of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. I was instructed through Deputy Chief Paul Paterni to go to Dallas directly from Lexington, Kentucky, where I had been engaged in a special assignment and arrived on Friday evening in Dallas at approximately 10:30 p.m.

I attended a total of four interviews with Lee Harvey Oswald, all of which were held in the office of Captain J. W. Fritz of the Homicide Bureau of the Dallas Police Department. Three of these interviews occurred on November 23 and the fourth on November 24. (Prior to my arrival in Dallas, Oswald had been interrogated on November 22.)

Subsequent to these interviews I dictated summaries from my notes of the subject matter discussed and these dictated summaries were transmitted to Chief James J. Rowley on November 29 and December 1, 1963.

Copies of these written summaries are attached to this affidavit as exhibit A and incorporated by reference herein and made a part hereof. The summary of my last interview with Oswald which occurred on Sunday, November 24, 1963, was the first portion of a four-page memorandum which included in addition to the report of the interview, my report on the circumstances immediately following the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald.

I hereby certify that the attached memoranda constitute my total written memoranda of the interviews with Lee Harvey Oswald at which I was present. I have no additional recollection at this time which I can add to the attached memoranda. I further certify that these memoranda accurately summarize my notes and recollections from these interviews.

Dated this 1st day of June 1964.

(S) Thomas J. Kelley, THOMAS J. KELLEY.

AFFIDAVIT OF J. W. FRITZ

The following affidavit was executed by J. W. Fritz on June 9, 1964.

AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

STATE OF TEXAS, _County of Dallas, ss._:

Before me, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared J. W. Fritz, Dallas Police Department, who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says: I wish to supplement the evidence given by me on Wednesday, April 20, 1964, before the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy, as follows:

_The Spent Rifle Hulls_

Three spent rifle hulls were found under the window in the southeast corner of the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building, Dallas, Texas, on the afternoon of November 22, 1963. When the officers called me to this window, I asked them not to move the shells nor touch them until Lt. Day of the Dallas Police Department could make pictures of the hulls showing where they fell after being ejected from the rifle. After the pictures were made, Detective R. M. Sims of the Homicide Bureau, who was assisting in the search of the building, brought the three empty hulls to my office. These were delivered to me in my office at the police headquarters. I kept the hulls in an envelope in my possession and later turned them over to C. N. Dhority of the Homicide Bureau and instructed him to take them to Lt. Day of the Identification Bureau. I told Detective Dhority that after these hulls were checked for prints to leave two of them to be delivered to the FBI and to bring one of them to my office to be used for comparison tests here in the office, as we were trying to find where the cartridges had been bought. When Detective Dhority returned from the Identification Bureau, he returned the one empty hull which I kept in my possession. Several days later, I believe on the night of November 27, Vince Drain of the FBI called me at home about one o'clock in the morning and said that the Commission wanted the other empty hull and a notebook that belonged to Oswald. I came to the office and delivered these things to the FBI. We have Mr. James P. Hosty's receipt for these items in our report.

_Reference to the Testimony of Roger Craig_

I don't remember the name Roger Craig, but I do remember a man coming into my outer office and I remember one of my officers calling me outside the door of my private office. I talked to this man for a minute or two, and he started telling me a story about seeing Oswald leaving the building. I don't remember all the things that this man said, but I turned him over to Lt. Baker who talked to him. Lee Harvey Oswald was in my office at this time. I don't remember anything about Lee Harvey Oswald jumping up or making any remarks or gestures to this man or to me at this time, and had I brought this officer into my inner office I feel sure that I would remember it. There were other officers in my inner office at the time, and I have found no one who knows about the remarks that you have asked about.

Signed this 9th day of June 1964.

(S) J. W. Fritz, J. W. FRITZ.

TESTIMONY OF MRS. MARY JANE ROBERTSON

The testimony of Mrs. Mary Jane Robertson was taken at 12:20 p.m., on May 28, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Leon D. Hubert, Jr., assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. HUBERT. This is the deposition of Mrs. Mary Jane Robertson.

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. Mrs. Robertson, my name is Leon D. Hubert, and I am a member of the advisory staff of the general counsel on the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy. Under the provisions of Executive Order 11130, dated November 29, 1963, the joint resolution of Congress No. 137, and the rules of procedure adopted by the President's Commission in conformance with the Executive order and the joint resolution, I have been authorized to take a sworn deposition from you. I state to you now that the general nature of the Commission's inquiry is to ascertain, evaluate, and report upon the facts relevant to the assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent violent death of Lee Harvey Oswald. In particular, as to you, Mrs. Robertson, the nature of the inquiry today is to determine what facts you know about the death of Oswald and any other pertinent facts you may know about the general inquiry.

Now, Mrs. Robertson, I believe that you appear here today by virtue of a general request made to you by Mr. J. Lee Rankin, general counsel of the President's Commission, in a letter addressed by him to Chief Curry, asking Chief Curry to request that you come here. Under the rules adopted by the Commission, you are entitled to a 3-day written notice prior to the taking of this deposition, but the rules adopted also provide that a witness may waive this 3-day notice if he sees fit to do so. Now, I must first ask you if you wish to receive the 3-day notice, or whether you are willing to waive it?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. I am quite willing to.

Mr. HUBERT. Will you rise then, and raise your right hand so that I may administer the oath?

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Yes; I do.

Mr. HUBERT. Will you please state your full name, please, ma'am?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. My name is Mary Jane Robertson or Mrs. Jim G. Robertson, as I go by.

Mr. HUBERT. What is your present residence address?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. 619 Lacewood, L-a-c-e-w-o-o-d [spelling] Drive, in Dallas, of course.

Mr. HUBERT. And your occupation?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. I am classified as a clerk-typist with the city civil service.

Mr. HUBERT. That's Dallas?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Yes--Dallas--and I work in the special service bureau of the Dallas Police Department.

Mr. HUBERT. In other words, you are a civil service employee but assigned to the Dallas Police Department?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Right.

Mr. HUBERT. How long have you been so assigned?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Just about a year and a half--October the 1st I started to work there, so just about a year and a half.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, were you there on Friday, November 22, 1963?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. The day the President was killed?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Yes; I certainly was.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember what time you went to work there and what time you left?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Yes; at that time I was coming to work at 7:15 and leaving at 4:15--those were my hours.

Mr. HUBERT. At 7:15 in the morning?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. At 7:15 in the morning and leaving at 4:15 in the afternoon. Now, as to the exact time I left that afternoon, I cannot tell you to the minute because, well, further on in the testimony you will probably want to ask, but Jack Revill, Lieutenant Revill, asked me to take a letter for him, the exact time of which I cannot tell you, but I do remember this very well--my husband had a vacation. He had been on a hunting trip and he was at home, so when Jack asked me to write this letter I went in and phoned home and I said, "I might run just a few minutes late because I don't know if this will be a long letter or a short letter, or what it will consist of," and I did have the car, and ordinarily I would have been home, say, leaving the office at 4:15, in 20 or 25 minutes, you know, but I did get home more or less around 5 o'clock--which was the usual time. I mean, I didn't run, you know, real late or anything, but that part--I definitely remember, and my husband does, too.

Mr. HUBERT. And the letter of Lt. Jack Revill you just talked about was the thing that caused you to be delayed?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. That was what I stayed to write--yes.

Mr. HUBERT. And that is a fact?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. That is a fact.

Mr. HUBERT. So, that was the last thing you did that day?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Yes; when I completed the letter.

Mr. HUBERT. Normally, you would have left at 4:15?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Yes; and I am saying that I didn't run too much after 4:15--the point of it--now, exactly what time I started on that--I don't know.

Mr. HUBERT. Normally, how long would it take you to get to your home from your office?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Well, you see, if I leave at 4:15 I make a little better time than if you wait until 4:30 because the more traffic starts then, and it's hard to say exactly, but I go on the freeway, and it's probably 20 minutes and if it's heavy traffic probably 25--you know what I mean?

Mr. HUBERT. Would it be fair to state, then, that you probably left at about 4:30?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. I would assume so. Now, I'm not saying to the very minute or anything like that, but I am saying that approximately--if it was after 5 o'clock, it was very shortly after when I got in the car, you know, I did not run what you would call late by hours or so.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, I'm going to show you two documents, but I want to identify them with reference to your deposition, so I am marking a document which has been already identified as Commission Exhibit No. 838, as follows: "Dallas, Texas, May 28, 1964, Exhibit No. 1, of the deposition of Mrs. Mary Jane Robertson," and I am signing my name below that, all of which appears in the left margin, and I am doing precisely the same to the other document, which bears the identification, Commission Exhibit No. 709, except that I am marking this as Exhibit No. 2 of the deposition of Mary Jane Robertson, signing my name to that.

Now, Mrs. Robertson, I would ask you to look at Exhibit No. 1 and Exhibit No. 2 which are identified and ask you if that is the letter to which you have previously referred as having been written or typed by you for Lieutenant Revill?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. I didn't this--because I know nothing about this down here [indicating].

Mr. HUBERT. You are pointing to Exhibit No. 1 and you are covering with your hand the affidavit portion?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Yes.

Mr. HUBERT. You say you know nothing about that?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. No.

Mr. HUBERT. The letter itself, you have noticed that they are actually identical, one appears to be an original and the other a copy?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. That's right--I was trying to see if there was a difference.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember writing these letters yourself?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Why, yes; I wrote them.

Mr. HUBERT. Is there anything on the letter that identifies you as having written them, I mean like the usual little marks put on the letter by a stenographer?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. No; that's something I always do, but what I mean, the state of confusion--well--I'm sure you can't have a conception of the state of confusion that office was in--our main secretary was out, she had a dental appointment and she had left earlier that morning, there were only two girls in the office and the two deskmen.

Mr. HUBERT. Well, you do identify the letter?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Definitely--I identify the letter.

Mr. HUBERT. You identify it from the sense of it or what?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Well, this is something that I did not memorize verbatim, and could not have repeated--what I mean--per word, but I could have told you the general gist of the letter, is what I mean, yes--the actual facts.

Mr. HUBERT. Was it dictated to you?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Lieutenant Revill came in and said, "Mary Jane, I would like for you to take a letter," and like I said, our stenographer was out of the office on an appointment, and I said, "Of course, now, Jack, this has been a hard day and you know I don't take shorthand and if you will be patient with me and let me write it out in longhand, I will be happy to do it for you." That is when I made my phone call home, and so he said, "Well, you take your time," and he said, "I know you don't take shorthand and that's quite all right," and I had him even spell such names so as to be certain of--you know--the agent's name and all like that. He sat across the desk from me, as we are doing here.

Mr. HUBERT. In other words, it was written out in your hand?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Yes; now, Jack, as I remember--I speak of him, we are very informal in our office, as Lieutenant Revill--Lieutenant Revill, as I recall, did have several papers or rough drafts that possibly he had written out or something, but he did speak verbally to me and I wrote in my own handwriting and I used a shorthand notebook. I wrote in my own handwriting.

Mr. HUBERT. And then you used your own handwriting for the purpose of writing the letter?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. That's correct.

Mr. HUBERT. What did you do with your own handwriting notes?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Anything like that I always take and I tear up and put in the wastebasket.

Mr. HUBERT. And you think that's what happened here?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Well, I'm certain it did.

Mr. HUBERT. But you don't know the existence of those notes now, is what I am getting at?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. No, sir.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you know how many copies you made?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. There again, I could not swear to you under oath exactly. Ordinarily we make an original and five. Now, whether Lieutenant Revill just might have said that an original and three will be enough, I cannot tell you.

Mr. HUBERT. You don't know how many you made?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. No--I cannot--I absolutely do not remember that.

Mr. HUBERT. But the normal practice would have been to make more than one copy?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. More than the original?

Mr. HUBERT. More than the original and one copy--normally you would write the original and how many copies?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Now, by this going to the captain that is not necessarily so. Anything we address to the chief we would have definitely more than one carbon copy, but for little instances like that, I cannot remember--Lieutenant Revill just might have said "an original and one will be enough."

Mr. HUBERT. Do you recall that he did say so?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. I do not--absolutely.

Mr. HUBERT. And you don't really know how many you did make?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. I cannot tell you--I cannot remember.

Mr. HUBERT. When the letter was finished, what happened to it?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. I called Lieutenant Revill, as well as I can remember, I called him into my office. Now, I might have gone into his office, but I took it directly to him. I waited and let him read it and let him proof it over to see it and I know he questioned me--he said, "Are you sure this is the correct way to spell assassination?" And I said, "Yes, sir; I looked it up in the dictionary," and he read the letter and then as I remember, I got my personal belongings together and I left the building then.

Mr. HUBERT. So, you handed the original and copy or copies to him?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Directly to Lieutenant Revill.

Mr. HUBERT. And you don't know what he did with it, to your own knowledge?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Oh, no; I left the building.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you know anything about what the figures in the lower right-hand corner on Exhibit 1, that is to say, Commission Exhibit No. 838, mean?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Yes; I do.

Mr. HUBERT. What do they mean?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. The captain has files of copies and that is his own, and his own personal file. In fact, he gave me a letter, a photostat, which he said it would be quite all right to show that that is his own and that that appears on his file, you know what I mean, the way he has it set up.

Mr. HUBERT. You are talking about what?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. The O-1 is what I'm talking about.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, you are showing me a document that is exactly the same actually, it seems to be a photostatic copy of Exhibits Nos. 1 and 2, that you have just testified to.

Mrs. ROBERTSON. That's right, this is in the captain's files.

Mr. HUBERT. This is from the captain's flies and in the left-hand side it shows "WPG"?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. That's Capt. W. P. Gannaway.

Mr. HUBERT. And then over on the right-hand side it has "O-1" and you say that those are his initials on the left-hand side, and on the right-hand side is what, that is his indexing?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Correct--this is not in the outside file or anything, it's in the captain's office.

Mr. HUBERT. Would that indicate that there is another copy other than the two that you have just testified to, being Commission Exhibits Nos. 838 and 709?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Well, sir, will you phrase that again, I don't understand it?

Mr. HUBERT. Well, you will notice that in Commission Exhibits Nos. 838 and 709, both of which have been identified, respectively, as Exhibits Nos. 1 and 2 for this deposition, do not have on the left-hand side the initials of Captain Gannaway. Now, it could be that this document you have just showed me is another copy or another photostat initialed?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Sir, I don't know. He called me in his office yesterday and handed me the letter and I read it. I said, "Yes, Captain Gannaway, this is the letter. I assume I typed it because this is the contents of the letter that I typed."

Mr. HUBERT. And you remembered it?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. Yes; so he handed it to me and he said, "Well, take this along," and he said, "This, of course, Mary Jane, you well know----"

Mr. HUBERT. You are talking about the "O-1"?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. The O-1, I don't ask questions, but I mean, he has a file, of course, of the documents pertaining to this and so he said, "Would you return the letter to me when you return from taking your deposition?"

Mr. HUBERT. He didn't authorize you to let me have this letter that you have just showed me?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. No; he did not.

Mr. HUBERT. Well, as I said before, I think you will agree with me that this letter seems to be exactly the same as the other two, with the exception that on the one that you have produced there are in the left-hand corner, the initials WPG, which you say you identify as being the initials of Captain Gannaway?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. That's correct.

Mr. HUBERT. Can you tell us anything about the other markings and symbols on the bottom of Commission Exhibit No. 838? I refer first to seemingly a rubber stamp in a square called "Indexed date 4-27-4" and the initial "S." Can you tell me what that means?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. I have no idea in the world, sir. I have never seen a stamp like that.

Mr. HUBERT. And then below that, the initials "Int," this being in writing, and then "2965-34," do you know what that means?

Mrs. ROBERTSON. I have no idea. Now, there again is our O-1, which would be in our captain's files. Now, whether this is something pertaining--I do not know whether this is something pertaining to his files only, this subject matter.