Part 29

Mr. POTTS. Senkel, Turner, and Chief Lumpkin were in the lead car in the motorcade, and I think Turner had gotten this information about this Fischer fellow. I had never heard about him until Turner asked me, he said, "Let's go out and talk to this Mr. Fischer." He said, "He is supposed to have been standing down there watching the parade go by and he saw this man in this window," and he wanted to know--we took a picture of Lee Harvey Oswald out there to see if he could identify him as being the man he saw in the window, and we went out there on the 25th of November with Lee Harvey Oswald's picture to 4007 Flamingo Street in Mesquite. That's where this Ronald Fischer lives, and he works for the county auditor's office down there. He was working that day and most of the county employees stood out on the street to watch the parade, and we took his picture out there and he said, "I can't say for sure that's the man that I saw in that window up there, but it looks like him." He said he saw him up there just a few minutes before he heard the shots fired.

Mr. BALL. Now, you made written reports of these investigations you are testifying about?

Mr. POTTS. Yes.

Mr. BALL. And you have refreshed your memory from them--from your own handwritten notes?

Mr. POTTS. That's right--I have.

Mr. BALL. I would like to have marked your report on your officer's duty on Friday, November 22, and also on the 23d and 25th of November, being two sheets, numbered 230 and 231, as the next exhibit, and page 3 of your report, being No. 232, being a report of your participation in the showup on November 23, 1963, at 2:15--as the next exhibit.

(Instrument referred to marked by the reporter as "Potts Exhibits B and C," respectively, for identification.)

Mr. BALL. I think that's all and I do want to thank you very much.

Mr. POTTS. You are certainly welcome.

Mr. BALL. This will be written up and you can come down and read it and sign it or you can waive your signature and we will send it on to the Commission. You can tell me what you want to do.

Mr. POTTS. Oh, I will sign it.

Mr. BALL. All right, then you will be notified when it is ready for you to sign.

TESTIMONY OF JOHN P. ADAMCIK

The testimony of John P. Adamcik was taken at 10 a.m., on April 3, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David W. Belin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. BELIN. Would you want to stand and raise your right hand, sir?

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I do.

Mr. BELIN. Would you please state your name?

Mr. ADAMCIK. John P. Adamcik.

Mr. BELIN. Where do you live?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I live right now at 4621 Samuell Boulevard, apartment 166.

Mr. BELIN. Where is that?

Mr. ADAMCIK. That is over in the eastern part of Dallas.

Mr. BELIN. In Dallas, Tex.?

Mr. ADAMCIK. It is in Dallas, Tex.

Mr. BELIN. How old are you, sir?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I am 26.

Mr. BELIN. What is your occupation?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I am a detective with the Dallas Police Department.

Mr. BELIN. Did you go to school in Dallas?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No, sir; I didn't.

Mr. BELIN. Where did you go to high school?

Mr. ADAMCIK. LaGrange, Tex.

Mr. BELIN. LaGrange High School?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Right.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I worked there in LaGrange for a short period of time, and came to Dallas and worked for Temco Aircraft Co.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do for them?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I was an assembler.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Then I went in the Marine Corps for a short period of time.

Mr. BELIN. How long were you in the Marine Corps?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I was in there approximately 2 months, got out on a hardship discharge.

Mr. BELIN. You mean family?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Was it an honorable discharge?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes; I got an honorable discharge--hardship discharge.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I went home and assisted the family, because my father was injured. That was the reason I got the discharge.

And I don't know, I got everybody going in shape which would be, I think it was probably around a year, and I came back to Dallas and got on the police department.

Mr. BELIN. And you have been in the police department ever since?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Every since, except I took another 6-month leave of absence and I spent 6 months on active duty with the U.S. Army Reserves. After the hardship ended, I went back in the Army for 6 months.

Mr. BELIN. Your position with the Dallas Police Department is now what?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Detective in the homicide and robbery bureau.

Mr. BELIN. Are you married?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Family?

Mr. ADAMCIK. One-month-old baby.

Mr. BELIN. A month old baby. Boy or girl?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Boy.

Mr. BELIN. You must be pretty proud?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. What is his name?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Mark Allen.

Mr. BELIN. Your wife taking good care of that baby?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Oh, yes.

Mr. BELIN. Officer, first I want to talk about November 22, 1963. Were you on duty on that date?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No, sir; I wasn't, not at the time pertaining to this.

Mr. BELIN. Not at the time of the assassination?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; I wasn't.

Mr. BELIN. You were off duty?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I was at home, off duty.

Mr. BELIN. When did you get on duty that day?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I was supposed to go on at 3. However, when I heard of the assassination--I was supposed to go to court at 2 o'clock, and I reported down to the courts and the courts were closed, so I immediately reported to my office, which was about 2 or so.

Mr. BELIN. You were at the office the rest of the afternoon?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No, sir. I stayed at the office a short period of time. I wasn't there over an hour when Oswald was brought in by the arresting officers and we were asked--Detectives Stovall and Rose and myself were asked by Captain Fritz and the supervisor to go to his residence in Irving, to the Paine residence.

Mr. BELIN. Did Oswald give them that address?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I don't know. I don't recall whether he gave them the address or they found it on his person in evidence as identification.

Mr. BELIN. What was the address?

Mr. ADAMCIK. 2515 West Fifth Street, Irving. I don't have any idea how that came about at all. All I remember is that we were told to go to this address. I don't even remember whether we had a name, a definite name. We were told to go to this address, that this was the address he had on his person, or something similar to that, and we did what we were told.

Mr. BELIN. About what time was this?

Mr. ADAMCIK. This was approximately 2:30. Could I use my report?

Mr. BELIN. Sure. You take your report out and refresh your recollection.

Mr. ADAMCIK. I have it on here, the times mainly. This would be approximately 2:30.

Mr. BELIN. All right, did you have a search warrant when you went out there?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No, sir; we did not.

Mr. BELIN. Any particular reason why you didn't?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Well, at the time, we didn't know what we would find. We didn't have any idea what this address meant to us, and we were mainly going over to see who was there.

We decided if we were not allowed in the house, invited in, that we could get a search warrant later to go in, whereas at the time we didn't have any idea that that address actually had any connection with these people or with Oswald.

Mr. BELIN. Who did you go with?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I went with Detectives Rose and Stovall, and we were met by three county officers there at the scene before we went up, because being out of the city limits of Dallas, we had three county officers go along with us, because it was in their jurisdiction.

Mr. BELIN. What time did you get there?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I would say that it didn't take us over, it probably took us half an hour to get there. I would say it would be approximately 3 o'clock.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got there?

Mr. ADAMCIK. We waited a few minutes for the county officers to get there, and when they got there we came outside, and I went with one of the county officers or two of the county officers to the back door, and one of the county officers and Detectives Rose and Stovall went to the front door.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. We waited until Detectives Rose and Stovall and the county officers got inside the house, which was a period of time of maybe 3 or 4 minutes when they were invited in, and they came to the back door and opened it up and asked us to come in.

Mr. BELIN. Who asked you to come in?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Detectives Rose and Stovall, plus--because Mrs. Paine was in the house at the time standing next to them.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Well, we started looking around the house. I think Detectives Rose and Stovall handled most of the interrogation. They asked the questions of Mrs. Paine, and Mrs. Oswald, after we found out who they were--and I didn't do any interrogating at the time at all, I just sort of stood and listened, and we started looking around.

We asked them where Mr. Oswald was, and various things, and we looked around.

Mr. BELIN. What did Mrs. Oswald say about whether or not you could see her room?

Mr. ADAMCIK. She never did say anything at all. In fact, she showed us where the room was and showed us several things in the room.

Mr. BELIN. What did Mrs. Paine do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. She didn't object at all. They were really very cooperative.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what the interrogation was? Who said what?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; I don't recall. I assume it was, you know, they asked her who she was.

Mr. BELIN. Did anyone ask when was the last time they saw Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Oh, yes; I heard it asked.

Mr. BELIN. What was the answer given, if you remember?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I don't recall.

Mr. BELIN. Well, did they take you out to the garage?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Not me. They took two of--some of the officers. I think it was Detectives Stovall and Rose, to the garage. I think it was through Mrs. Oswald that she went ahead and told Mrs. Paine something, and Mrs. Paine drew their attention to the garage.

Mr. BELIN. Did anyone say anything about a rifle?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I didn't hear it. I wasn't present when they went in the garage at all.

Mr. BELIN. All right, what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Well, we stayed in the house for a good while, and we called, or one of our men called in the office, I didn't, and asked them what they should do. And of course they told them to bring the people in, that they wanted to talk to them at the office. And we told them about it and they agreed that they would go. And of course our problem was the children. There was some children, both of Mrs. Oswald's children were there, and I don't remember, I believe Mrs. Paine's were there, and we wondered where they would stay, or make some arrangements for the neighbors to keep them or not, and if I remember correctly, after we were there a while, Michael Paine, Mrs. Paine's husband came in. We have it here someplace what time it was.

Mr. BELIN. Did you hear what Michael Paine said when he came in?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes. He came in about 3:45 and told his wife that he heard the President was shot and he came over to see whether he could help, and they were surprised.

Mr. BELIN. When he said he heard the President was shot and he came over to see if he could help, why would he help her if the President was shot?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I don't know. Apparently in the affidavit, I was present.

Later on he said that his first idea when he heard that the President was shot was that Oswald could have been the one that done it, when he found out about the location, so apparently he figured that somebody would be over there questioning them.

Mr. BELIN. All right, then what happened?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Well, we went through the house, if I remember correctly, and I believe the other detectives found some property. I know they found this blanket that was rolled up in the garage.

Mr. BELIN. Were you there when they saw the blanket?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; I wasn't there. I saw the blanket later.

Mr. BELIN. Where was it when you first saw it?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I believe they took it in the house. I am pretty sure.

Mr. BELIN. Had they unrolled the blanket when they took it in the house?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; they had a string still tied around it. Apparently had two strings, and just one of the strings were cut.

Mr. BELIN. One of the strings was cut?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Who cut it, do you know?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I don't have any idea.

Mr. BELIN. Had it been cut by an officer of the Dallas Police Department?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; it definitely wasn't.

Mr. BELIN. Pardon?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Definitely wasn't. As far as I know, it wasn't.

Mr. BELIN. How was the blanket rolled, do you know, offhand, approximately?

Mr. ADAMCIK. It appeared to be 4 or 5 feet, maybe.

Mr. BELIN. Was there anything in the blanket?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Not that I could see.

Mr. BELIN. Was the blanket stiff or limp?

Mr. ADAMCIK. It was a regular wool blanket, and it wasn't fairly stiff. Just from being rolled that way, it didn't appear like it was real stiff. Just normal.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see anyone carrying the blanket?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; I didn't.

Mr. BELIN. Did you lift the blanket up?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; I never did lift the blanket up.

Mr. BELIN. What happened after it was brought inside?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I don't recall then at all. I left the house after awhile and went with, I believe it was, Mrs. Paine. I went with her to one of the neighbor houses to see about the children, leaving the children there. I left and went with her.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Coming back, Mrs. Frazier, I believe it was, drove up to the house as I was coming back with--no, it was Mrs. Bill Randle. She (Mrs. Randle) was a neighbor there and she was driving up to the house, so I asked her whether she knew anything about what had happened, and whether she had seen Lee Oswald, and she did tell me that Lee Oswald rode to work with her brother, which is Wesley Frazier, who was staying with her, and he rode to work with him that morning.

She told me that she saw--she was up early in the morning and was drinking coffee, and saw Lee Harvey Oswald go across the front yard, across the yard carrying like a long package wrapped in something, carrying it from the Paine house to Wesley's car.

Mr. BELIN. Did she say how he was carrying the package?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she didn't. I think we got an affidavit. In fact, I know we did, but I didn't take it.

Mr. BELIN. Did she say about how long the package was?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she said it was long and wrapped in a paper or a box. That is all I remember her saying.

Mr. BELIN. Anything else on there? Did she say anything that it was unusual for Oswald to be home at all during the week?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes; she did say that. That Oswald usually spent the weekends over there, and it was unusual for him to be there on a Thursday night and go to work with him on Friday.

Mr. BELIN. Anything else you remember offhand?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; I don't believe I do.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. By then we went ahead and took these people and put them in a car. I think Mrs. Oswald took both the children. Mrs. Paine got a neighbor to keep her children and Mrs. Oswald and her two children were put in our car, the city police car, and Mrs. Paine also went with us, and Michael Paine, Mrs. Paine's husband, went with the county officer, and we proceeded to go to the city police station.

Mr. BELIN. Then what?

Mr. ADAMCIK. We took them up to the homicide and robbery bureau office and conditions were very crowded there, so we moved up to the forgery bureau next door, and we put them in the interrogation room and waited a pretty good while.

By this time it was approximately 6 p.m., and I think they were trying to get an interpreter and question Mrs. Oswald. That was the reason for the wait.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Mr. ADAMCIK. Oh, yes, after talking to this Mrs. Randle, we wanted to talk to Wesley Frazier, and she said that he was at Parkland visiting his sick daddy.

So when we got back to the station, we checked with Parkland and couldn't find anybody by that name over there, so we checked with the clinic there in Irving, I believe it was, Irving Professional Center, and found out that he was there. The nurse checked the room, and he was there at the time, so some of the detectives called out there and had him placed in custody at that time so we could get an affidavit from him or question him.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Mr. ADAMCIK. However, I didn't go back over there and get him.

Mr. BELIN. When you got down to the station, you were with Mrs. Paine?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Right. When we got to the station, there was Mrs. Paine, Mrs. Oswald and her two children, and Michael Paine.

Mr. BELIN. Was Mrs. Oswald questioned at all or not?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Mrs. Oswald, yes; she was. She was questioned that same evening.

Mr. BELIN. What did she say?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Well, she was questioned through an interpreter, and an affidavit was gotten from her also. I know she was showed the rifle in my presence.

I was there with Captain Fritz and myself and Detective Senkel, and the rifle was showed to her then, and she looked at it, and I remember her saying through an interpreter that it did look like the rifle, but she didn't say, but it did look like the rifle that Lee Oswald, that was in the garage previous to finding the blanket eventually.

Mr. BELIN. When you say finding the blanket eventually, did she say the blanket was there?

Was it simply that when you showed the blanket to the officers, apparently she made some remark that about a week or so previous to that her husband's rifle had been wrapped in a blanket?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I can't remember exactly how long. I don't remember when she said the last time was she saw it.

Mr. BELIN. Did Mrs. Paine indicate she ever saw the rifle there?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I can't remember. I took an affidavit, and I know I questioned her about the rifle, and I can't remember whether she ever said.

I would have to see the affidavit. I don't have a copy. I don't believe she said she seen the rifle. I believe that she said she saw the blanket there, but I am sure that that would be in the affidavit. That would be in the affidavit, though.

Mr. BELIN. Now anything else happen there?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; after Mrs. Oswald was questioned, I took an affidavit from Mrs. Paine.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I think this other detective, I think Senkel, probably took one from Mrs. Oswald.

Mr. BELIN. You mean Marina, Lee Oswald's wife?

Mr. ADAMCIK. That's right, the wife.

Mr. BELIN. Then what?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Shortly after we got through with him, with this, I believe Lee Oswald's mother came in. I don't remember whether she had been in previous and was in some other office, but I know they brought her in the same office we were in at that time, and after we got through, they were all sitting in the same room together, Mrs. Oswald, Lee's mother, and the wife, and the children, and Mrs. Paine, and Michael Paine.

Mr. BELIN. Did Lee Oswald's mother say anything?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she kind of didn't say anything definite. She kind of had the feeling--I don't know how to explain it--just like this, well, she didn't realize what really happened and just couldn't quite understand it, or something. She didn't say.

Mr. BELIN. What about Lee Oswald's brother?

Mr. ADAMCIK. To me, he was in there, too. I didn't break that up. He seemed rather calm to me. He was real calm and real collected.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say anything at all?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Not to me, not in my presence.

Mr. BELIN. All right, then, what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I was asked by Captain Fritz to take these people home, and he wanted me to take someone with me, and I took Lieutenant McKinney, who was one of the lieutenants in the forgery bureau. I used his car, and he went along with me to take these people home.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do? First of all, did they say anything more on the way home about the incident or not?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; I believe the only thing I definitely remember is that Marina Oswald kept saying, telling Mrs. Oswald that this was her home, and she still decided she would like to stay here. She didn't want to go back to Russia. I remember her saying that.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember someone saying that through an interpreter?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Right. Mrs. Paine was there, and she could interpret.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Mr. ADAMCIK. She wasn't real good, but she could speak enough Russian to interpret a little bit.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. We took them to Irving, to the Paine house. At this time I believe Mrs. Oswald was the only other person that we took back there to the Paine house that didn't come down to the station with us originally.

Mr. BELIN. You mean the mother?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes; the mother, she went back with us.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Well, this was fairly late. I guess it was around 10 o'clock when we got back, so apparently it was around 9 when we started taking them to Irving, and got back about 10.

We just dropped them off at the house and went on back to the office.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got back to the office?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Went to the office and I stayed there a while, and I guess it was around 11 o'clock, I mean the interrogation room in the captain's office, and spent about 15 minutes.

Mr. BELIN. Why did you go in the interrogation room?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Well, at that time I think somebody else just finished talking to him, and I think the captain had to go see somebody or something, and nobody was in the room at the time, and he told us to go on in there for a little while and see whether we could talk to Oswald.

I think Detective Montgomery went in there with me, I am not sure.

Mr. BELIN. Were you the only two in there at that time?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Yes; I think so. The ID Bureau came in there and either fingerprinted him or done something. When they came in there, I left. It was just a short period of time.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember any conversation that took place there?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; except I asked him whether he drove a car. I did ask him that. And I remember him saying something that he didn't.

Mr. BELIN. That he did or did not?

Mr. ADAMCIK. That he did not. And I asked him how long he was in Russia and whether he liked it there, and I remember him telling me how long he was there. I think it was two years, or something like that.

Mr. BELIN. Well----

Mr. ADAMCIK. I don't remember exactly what he said, and he liked it okay, and that is just about it.

Mr. BELIN. Did you talk about the assassination at all?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; it wasn't anything at all concerned with the assassination.

Mr. BELIN. Did you ask him any questions?

Mr. ADAMCIK. We did.

Mr. BELIN. Like what kind of questions?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Like where were you at the time this assassination occurred; and he just wouldn't say anything.

Mr. BELIN. Did he just keep quiet?

Mr. ADAMCIK. He just sat there and stared straight ahead.

Mr. BELIN. Didn't talk at all?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No.

Mr. BELIN. Did he ask for an attorney while you were there?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Not in my presence.

Mr. BELIN. Did you ask him any questions about Officer Tippit's murder?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; I don't believe that I did.

Mr. BELIN. Anyone else there that did?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I didn't hear anybody.

Mr. BELIN. All right, then what happened?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Well, I just stayed at the office until about 2 o'clock in the morning.

Mr. BELIN. Ever see Oswald again?

Mr. ADAMCIK. I seen him being led out of the office from the interview, I believe. I didn't go down there.

Mr. BELIN. What interview?