Warren Commission (06 of 26): Hearings Vol. VI (of 15)
Part 59
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. When did you become aware of the fact he had returned?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, I must have heard him, or he might have come in and put his milk in the icebox.
Mr. JENNER. Well, he didn't get the milk, as far as I recall, until you'd advised him where the grocery store was.
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. That was after he had returned from the----
Mrs. BLEDSOE. From the----
Mr. JENNER. After this 40-minute interval? I am just sticking for the moment to the time that he returned to your home after 40 minutes.
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. He had put his name in your register and in your presence, in the living room, and turned and left your home and returned in 40 minutes; now, is that right? It's that point that I am concentrating on. When did you become aware that he had returned on that occasion and how?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, I don't know--I guess he come and put the things in the icebox. I don't even remember where I was.
Mr. JENNER. I see. So, that you didn't see him return to your home?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. I didn't see him come in.
Mr. JENNER. Didn't see him come in?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. And you didn't know what he had with him at that point?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. To the best of your ability where was he in your home when you became aware of his presence on his return after that 40 minutes?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. I must have been in the kitchen and he came back there and put the milk in, I guess.
Mr. JENNER. Did he have milk with him after he returned that 40 minutes?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No, not the 40 minutes. That was the bag.
Mr. JENNER. See, this is what I'm trying to concentrate on for the moment, before you get the milk. And I am trying to take it sequentially. He paid the $7 and signed the register in your living room?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And without any further words to you he turned and left your home, is that accurate?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes; that's about right.
Mr. JENNER. He returned in 40 minutes?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. Now, sticking right to that point, when did you become aware of the fact that he was then back in your home, that is, at that point?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. That he--he hadn't gotten the milk yet?
Mr. JENNER. No; this is when he first returned.
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, I don't know. I was just around the house. I didn't pay any attention to him.
Mr. JENNER. So, I take it, then, when he made that first trip back, you didn't see him?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. You don't know what he had with him on that occasion?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, I guess he had the bag, didn't he?
Mr. JENNER. I want to stick with what you knew at that instant of time. What you found out afterwards, I'll go into that in a moment.
You didn't see him return?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. You don't know what he had with him when he returned?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. At that instance, because you didn't see him?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. But, you were aware; now, you became aware of the fact that he did return?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did you have a conversation with him at that point?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. When did you become aware and I gather from your earlier testimony you became aware that he had brought that into your home, or there was in your home some additional luggage. When you first saw him he had this soft canvas bag, or canvas bag, whether it was soft or not that is uncertain.
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And then you became aware later that day that there was another piece of luggage, and, am I correct about that?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Now, I think he said he was going to get some more. He was going to get some more and he had some boots, too, in his hand. I--maybe he brought those the last time. I don't remember.
Mr. JENNER. What kind of boots?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, they looked like they were about up to here [indicating].
Mr. JENNER. Up to the knee?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; about there [indicating].
Mr. JENNER. Oh,----
Mrs. BLEDSOE. There.
Mr. JENNER. Just a little above the ankle?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. About 3 inches above the ankle?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. I don't know what they used them for.
Mrs. JENNER. Were they cowboy boots.
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; it wasn't cowboy boots.
Mr. JENNER. Were they canvas, leather, or rubber?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; just leather.
Mr. JENNER. Heavy-soled?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Heavy-soled.
Mr. JENNER. Heavy-soled. Rubber soles?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Oh, no; leather.
Mr. JENNER. Any hobnails in them?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. Hard heel or flat heel? I mean, flat sole and heel?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Oh, they had a heel, too. I remember them having that. He must have brought those in when he brought those the last time.
Mr. JENNER. You do not recall his having the boots at the time you first--at the first time you talked to him?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; I don't believe he did.
Mr. JENNER. But, you became aware of the boots afterward?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. At, or about, or after the time he returned from this 40-minute absence?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. And was it at the time you noticed the boots, did you also notice that he had additional items of luggage?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, he went to get the luggage.
Mr. JENNER. Did he say that?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; I don't know whether he did or not. I know he--I don't know.
Mr. JENNER. Did you have a thought in mind when he left after he paid you the $7 and signed your register that he was going somewhere to obtain additional articles of clothing?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, I thought that.
Mr. JENNER. You thought that? He didn't say anything to you about that, however?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; he didn't say anything. Didn't talk much.
Mr. JENNER. It is clear in your mind that he just turned around after you finished the transaction and left and returned in 40 minutes?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. I thought he said he had to get some groceries, but maybe that was after he got the luggage, I don't remember.
Mr. JENNER. You had become aware that afternoon that he had additional articles of luggage?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Come in about 3, about 4 he got the rest of the luggage.
Mr. JENNER. Now, this additional article of luggage, would you describe it, as compared with----
Mrs. BLEDSOE. I didn't pay any----
Mr. JENNER. Please. As compared with this canvas bag, blue in color, that you just told me about?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; I didn't pay no attention to it at all. It was just a piece of luggage.
Mr. JENNER. Well, was it a----
Mrs. BLEDSOE. I don't----
Mr. JENNER. What I would call a suitcase or what you might call a suitcase?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; it wasn't a regular suitcase, but just something inexpensive, just something the boys have, and I didn't pay any attention to him.
Mr. JENNER. Was it hard-sided?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; it was a--you know, it was weak, you know.
Mr. JENNER. Uh-huh. It was weak. Was it strong enough so that it had a rectangular shape?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. You know what I mean by suitcase?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. It is reasonably firm and hard, and has a handle on it?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; it wasn't that way. One of those inexpensive kind of things, but I don't know whether it was canvas or what.
Mr. JENNER. Was it firmer in shape than the canvas bag you have described to me that he had earlier?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No. Well, I think it was chuck full.
Mr. JENNER. You know it was?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh. It was, I remember. I don't----
Mr. JENNER. Do you remember the color?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No. One of them was blue, and I don't know which one or anything about it.
Mr. JENNER. I see.
Miss DOUTHIT. Let me ask her something.
Mary, would it help you to remember this if you would just begin, you were out in the yard, and you went around and interviewed this man there, did you stand in the yard, or go in your room and talk? Did he put up his things then before he came across the hall to talk to you? When did he ask you about groceries? After he signed your register did he go back in his room and hang his clothes up, or what happened? Would it help if you just sit here idly without anybody asking you questions and see? Did you go back out in the yard after he paid you the money, and while he was gone--if you can, just retrace your steps without anybody interrupting you. Could you begin and go again out in the yard, and went around and saw this man here, and he told you he wanted to rent a room, whether you stood on the porch and talked to him, or whether he brought his things and you went on and showed him the room? How far is the room from where your front door was? If you go down a hall, how far? Did you go over there and talk to him and make arrangements about the rent of the room? Did he hang up his clothes while he was in the room?
Did he--if you can just trace your steps and give it to him. I ask you to do that, and I know it is confusing, but that's all he wants.
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, I am getting tired.
Miss DOUTHIT. All he wants is the truth, and I thought maybe you might, for the sake of the record, you know----
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, I would have--we have said most everything.
Miss DOUTHIT. I know it, but just do it one more time. The man was standing at your front door----
Mrs. BLEDSOE. I am getting tired, because I have had a stroke, you see.
Miss DOUTHIT. Did you go back out in the yard?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; I stayed in.
Miss DOUTHIT. Did he leave your house twice? Now, you said he went and got a bag and brought it back?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes; he did, brought back the bag.
Miss DOUTHIT. Then he went back again?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.
Miss DOUTHIT. How long was he--all I want to know is just, if you can just tell that in your own words without any questions. Could you just do that?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, I'd rather they asked, because----
Miss DOUTHIT. I know, but it is hard for them to ask these particular questions, because they don't know exactly what happened. All they want to do is to say that you were in the room with him, and put this little bag down and hung up his clothes, and came across the hall and signed the register, see.
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, that's all. I don't know whether he put his clothes and what in the other room. I don't know whether he put his bag----
Miss DOUTHIT. Was there a closet in there?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes.
Miss DOUTHIT. Well, were you with him when he put the clothes in the closet, or did you go on across the hall and leave him?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Oh, no; I didn't pay any attention to him.
Miss DOUTHIT. Did you leave his presence--Mary, pardon me, I am not--this is not for the record.
Mr. JENNER. No; that's fine, leave it on the record.
Miss DOUTHIT. All right. When the man was on your front porch.
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes.
Miss DOUTHIT. He had a blue bag in there?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.
Miss DOUTHIT. And you don't know whether it was round or bulging, you just don't know?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Miss DOUTHIT. You don't know whether it had a long strap or a little handle, do you?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. I think it had a handle.
Miss DOUTHIT. But, it wasn't one you sling over your shoulder?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Miss DOUTHIT. All right, can you go ahead?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Clothes were sort of hanging over here [indicating].
Miss DOUTHIT. Uh-huh. Not covered or anything?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Miss DOUTHIT. You couldn't tell anybody about what color the clothes were, could you?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Miss DOUTHIT. Did you stand in the yard and talk to the young man? Or immediately go into the room?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, I immediately--I was talking to him, but I had to go in immediately, because he wanted to see the room.
Miss DOUTHIT. All right. How far is it, Mrs. Bledsoe, from where you met this man at the front door until you showed him the room?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, it is about 25 foot, and all that time I had to size him up, you see.
Miss DOUTHIT. You were talking to him as you went down the hall?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes; getting----
Miss DOUTHIT. Is that where you learned that he was married, as you were walking down the hall?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; he told me he was married before we went in the house.
Miss DOUTHIT. All right, then, when you got to the room, did you both walk inside the room, or stand in the door and talk?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. I stood in the door, and he went in and looked at it and took it.
Miss DOUTHIT. Did he keep his clothes?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. I didn't pay any attention.
Miss DOUTHIT. When he was talking to you, you don't know what he did, just stood and talked to you?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.
Miss DOUTHIT. Did you leave his presence before he came into your room and signed the register?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Now, that, Melody----
Miss DOUTHIT. Were you with him? And took him into the room, and----
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Says, "I'll take the room."
Miss DOUTHIT. Did you leave him in the room and you go on across to your room? How far is your room from where you rented his room?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Right next to it. No; he came on in, he came on back behind me.
Miss DOUTHIT. He never left your presence from the time you went in this room until he came over here?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes.
Miss DOUTHIT. All right, did he put his things in your room--or bring them with him?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; he left them in the room.
Miss DOUTHIT. All right, you don't know where he put them?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; didn't pay any attention to him.
Miss DOUTHIT. Is there a closet in that room?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes.
Miss DOUTHIT. You don't remember whether he hung his clothes in the closet?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Miss DOUTHIT. But, he left and came over where you were and signed your register, and then did he go back into his room or go down the hall and leave the house?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, went back in his room.
Miss DOUTHIT. All right. You don't know how long he stayed in his room?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Miss DOUTHIT. Now, before he left your room, did he tell you anything about going and getting additional luggage, or did you know when he was leaving the room?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, I didn't know. He said he was going to get some groceries but it might have been that he said that he was going, I don't know. I don't know.
Miss DOUTHIT. Was it when he signed the register that he asked you about the grocery store, or later?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Later.
Miss DOUTHIT. All right. Then you were in your room when he went back in his room. Did you see him leave his room and go out of the house?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes.
Miss DOUTHIT. Then where did you go?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Lord have mercy. I don't know.
Miss DOUTHIT. Did you go back out in the yard?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; I don't think I went into the yard. I was fooling around the house.
Miss DOUTHIT. All right, how far from your room is your kitchen?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Oh, Lord. It is a long ways. It is clear across the living room and dining room and the kitchen is right there [indicating].
Miss DOUTHIT. All right, but your room is right next to the room you rented to this man?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.
Miss DOUTHIT. When did you have knowledge that he was back in his room?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, when--I guess when he brought these--brought the milk in.
Miss DOUTHIT. How could he go to the grocery store and get milk unless he had already asked you where the grocery store was?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, I guess he did, he had already.
Miss DOUTHIT. Okay, then, it was on his return from getting the bag that he asked you about the grocery store, is that right? Or do you remember?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Oh, yes; it wasn't anything said about this when he rented--about eating. Just--he just rented the room, and not to eat in there.
Miss DOUTHIT. Now when you had some kind of knowledge, as you just said, could you hear him back in his room, or could you see him back in his room after he left the first time?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, I heard him.
Miss DOUTHIT. Did he come in and talk to you before he left your house the second time?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; he never did talk to me at all. He didn't talk.
Miss DOUTHIT. The only conversation you had with this Mrs.--with this Mr. Oswald was when he came and rented the room and signed the register?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. And what I got out of him. That's all I could get.
Miss DOUTHIT. Now; did you get any information out of him after he signed the register?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, the next day.
Miss DOUTHIT. I am talking about this one day.
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; didn't get much.
Miss DOUTHIT. Then all of your conversation that you had this Monday that he rented that room took place at one time, is that correct?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. That's correct.
Miss DOUTHIT. Now, he came back, and for some reason you knew he was in there. When did he leave your house the second time?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. When he went to get the groceries.
Miss DOUTHIT. Well, when?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, I don't know.
Miss DOUTHIT. Was he--when he went to leave, did he come in and say, "I'm going to get some groceries." Did he?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Miss DOUTHIT. You evidently told him about the grocery store the first time when he signed the register and your conversation with him--
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; I didn't either.
Miss DOUTHIT. Well, you just said you had one conversation with him, and you had no other conversation with him. Now, just remember these facts that you had no conversation with him after he paid you the money and signed the register.
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, I wouldn't say, because I don't know what he did. I don't remember.
Miss DOUTHIT. All right, how long after--when he brought his bag back and put it in this room, how long did he stay in that room until he left to go to the grocery store, if that is where he went?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Was that the first when he went and got the other bag?
Miss DOUTHIT. Uh-huh.
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, 20 or 30 minutes.
Miss DOUTHIT. Did he go and use the telephone, or just stay in his room all that time?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No, didn't use the phone until--I think he used it after.
Miss DOUTHIT. Did he use your telephone on Monday?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. After the, yes; after he got everything settled, I think he did. Two or three times every day. Called his wife, supposed to be.
Miss DOUTHIT. You don't know who he called?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; I don't know who he called.
Miss DOUTHIT. But, you don't know anything at all about when you gave him this information about the grocery store? We are just trying to get the order here in which this happened, Mrs. Bledsoe, is all, if you can just remember?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Oh, Lord.
Miss DOUTHIT. That is the reason I asked you if you could, to write these things down.
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well----
Miss DOUTHIT. I am sorry, but I thought in--I might help you.
Mr. JENNER. Did he make a telephone call after he became settled?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. On the 8th of October?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. I wouldn't say for sure, but I guess he did, because he called his wife, supposedly--supposed to have been all the time, but in the morning he called some people about jobs.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Because he talked on the phone and talked gruff, talked gruff to those on the phone, and talked about a job. I heard that.
Mr. JENNER. Then, one of the occasions when the gentleman interviewed you--were Secret Service and FBI people--there is a notation that you recalled that on Monday afternoon that he did call his wife?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. Now, does that refresh your recollection, that he did call her the same day that he moved in here on----
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, I guess he did, uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. And, were you aware of the fact that he was using the telephone?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Oh, I told him he could use the phone to get him a job and call his wife.
Mr. JENNER. And were you aware of any occasion on Monday when you had your own mental conception that he was actually talking with his wife?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, it didn't--I wasn't interested at all. He--I wasn't--I didn't think about it at all. When I got interested is when he called, talking in that foreign language.
Mr. JENNER. Now, the first time you heard him talking in the foreign language was when?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. As well as I can guess, it was a Wednesday.
Mr. JENNER. Wednesday?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Wednesday afternoon, but he came on----
Mr. JENNER. Now, so you assume that the other calls he made on Monday, since he did not, I take it, did not speak in a foreign language, or you didn't hear him speak in a foreign language on Monday?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. And you didn't hear him do so on Tuesday?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. First time you heard him to do that was Wednesday?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Well----
Miss DOUTHIT. Ask her if she ever heard him talk to anybody on the telephone in English. That is what----
Mr. JENNER. Well, I have assumed that you did hear him talk with people on the telephone using the English language?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, was about jobs, about getting a job. He called people to get jobs, and then he would become almost mad, and sometimes he was mad.
Mr. JENNER. What did he say?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, I don't know, but he was mad.
Mr. JENNER. About what?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. About what they were talking about. He would get in a bad humor, and then the day he made that call, he----
Mr. JENNER. Which call?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. That call.
Mr. JENNER. Wednesday? The call in which he spoke in a foreign language?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. He was real mad.
Mr. JENNER. He was angry with the person to whom he was speaking over the telephone?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. But, you couldn't understand what he was saying?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. So, you don't know whether he was angry with the person, or angry with someone else and explaining it to the person on the phone about something in anger?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. I know he talked in a--he talked in a, I guess it was a foreign language, and I don't know what it was.
Mr. JENNER. Just sounded irritated?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. Was there ever an occasion when you saw him in possession, either in his room, or carrying a long object wrapped in paper or a blanket or----
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. Or something as long as 45 inches long?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. Seven or eight inches wide?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Didn't have anything like that with him.
Mr. JENNER. Anything that you thought could be curtain rods or----
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. Or shades that are on the spring, did he ever have any package that looked as though that sort of thing might be contained in it?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. You saw nothing of that nature in his room?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. Now, would you describe the room? Was it tastefully decorated or--shades, curtains? There was no need for him to have any--bring anything in to decorate that room, was there?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. Did he do so?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. Brought nothing in of that nature?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. And there was no discussion with you on that subject?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.
Mr. JENNER. You do have a distinct recollection, do you, that he was there on Friday, that would be the 11th, I think?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Friday. That is the day that he stayed in his room all day.
Mr. JENNER. Stayed in his room all day long?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Just went to the bathroom and came back.
Mr. JENNER. That was Friday, October 11?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. On the 12th, that would be Saturday the 12th of October, did he receive any phone calls?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Would you tell me about that?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, I think he called somebody--somebody called him, and I judged it was his wife.
Mr. JENNER. Did you answer the phone, or did he?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; my son answered.
Mr. JENNER. Your son answered the phone?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. And he called him to the phone, and seemed like that she was going to have a child and----
Mr. JENNER. Did you gather this from what you heard him say?
Mrs. BLEDSOE. From what they said.
Mr. JENNER. From his end of the conversation?