Part 56

Miss HINE. Yes, sir; going north on Houston Street. I saw it turn left and I saw the President's car coming and I saw the President and saw him waving his hand in greeting up in the air and I saw his wife and I saw him turn the corner and after he turned the corner I looked and I saw the next car coming just at the instant I saw the next car coming up was when I heard the shots.

Mr. BALL. How many did you hear?

Miss HINE. Three.

Mr. BALL. Could you tell where the shots were coming from?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir; they came from inside the building.

Mr. BALL. How do you know that?

Miss HINE. Because the building vibrated from the result of the explosion coming in.

Mr. BALL. It appeared to you that the shots came from the building?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did you know they were shots at the time?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir; they sounded almost like cannon shots they were so terrific.

Mr. BALL. That is when you were at the window, is that right?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir; that is when I was at the window, because the next car, you see, was coming up and turning and I looked. Of course I looked when I heard the shots. I just stood there and saw people running to the east up Elm Street. I saw people running; I saw people falling down, you know, lying down on the sidewalk.

Mr. BALL. That was on Houston Street?

Miss HINE. No, sir; Elm.

Mr. BALL. You could see--could you see any part of Elm?

Miss HINE. East, yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. You could see east on Elm?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir; I could see east on Elm. I saw them run across east on Elm away from where his car had gone and my first thought was if I could only see what happened, so I went out our front door into the foyer.

Mr. BALL. You mean the front door to the office?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. That opens on----

Miss HINE. The foyer, little hall, and----

Mr. BALL. Steps lead down?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir; but there is a door before the steps and the elevator is to my left and I went past the hall that goes to my right and I knocked on the door of Lyons and Carnahan; that's a publishing company.

Mr. BALL. What did you do then?

Miss HINE. I tried the door, sir, and it was locked and I couldn't get in and I called, "Lee, please let me in," because she's the girl that had that office, Mrs. Lee Watley, and she didn't answer. I don't know if she was there or not, then I left her door. I retraced my steps back to where the hall turns to my left and went down it to Southwestern Publishing Co.'s door and I tried their door and the reason for this was because those windows face out.

Mr. BALL. On to Elm?

Miss HINE. Yes; and on to the triple underpass.

Mr. BALL. I see.

Miss HINE. And there was a girl in there talking on the telephone and I could hear her but she didn't answer the door.

Mr. BALL. Was the door locked?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. That was which company?

Miss HINE. Southwestern Publishing Co.

Mr. BALL. Did you call to her?

Miss HINE. I called and called and shook the door and she didn't answer me because she was talking on the telephone; I could hear her. They have a little curtain up and I could see her form through the curtains. I could see her talking and I knew that's what she was doing and then I turned and went through the back hall and came through the back door.

Mr. BALL. Of your office, the second floor office?

Miss HINE. Yes; and I went straight up to the desk because the telephones were beginning to wink; outside calls were beginning to come in.

Mr. BALL. Did they did come in rapidly?

Miss HINE. They did come in rapidly.

Mr. BALL. When you came back in did you see Mrs. Reid?

Miss HINE. No, sir; I don't believe there was a soul in the office when I came back in right then.

Mr. BALL. Did you see anybody else go in through there?

Miss HINE. No, sir; after I answered the telephone then there was about four or five people that came in.

Mr. BALL. Was there anybody in that room when you came back in and went to the telephone?

Miss HINE. No, sir; not to my knowledge.

Mr. BALL. Did you see Mrs. Reid come back in?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir; I think I felt sure that I did. I thought that there were five or six that came in together. I thought she was one of those.

Mr. BALL. Mrs. Reid told us she came in alone and when she came in she didn't see anybody there.

Miss HINE. Well, it could be that she did, sir. I was talking on the phones and then came the policemen and then came the press. Everybody was wanting an outside line and then our vice president came in and he said "The next one that was clear, I have to have it" and so I was busy with the phone.

Mr. BALL. From the time you walked into the room you became immediately busy with the phone?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir; sure was.

Mr. BALL. Did you see Oswald come in?

Miss HINE. My back would have been to the door he was supposed to have come in at.

Mr. BALL. Were you facing the door he is supposed to have left by?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Do you recall seeing him?

Miss HINE. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. Do you have any definite recollection of Mrs. Reid coming in?

Miss HINE. No, sir; I only saw four or five people that came by and they all came and were all talking about how terrible it was.

Mr. BALL. Do you remember their names?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Who were they?

Miss HINE. Mr. Williams, Mr. Molina (spelling), Miss Martha Reid, Mrs. Reid, Mrs. Sarah Stanton, and Mr. Campbell; that's all I recall, sir.

Mr. BALL. Miss Hine, this will be written up and it will be submitted for your signature if you wish, or you can waive signature right now; which do you prefer? Do you have any choice?

Miss HINE. Well, I would prefer to see it.

Mr. BALL. Prefer to see it, all right, then this young lady will inform you to come down, read it, look it over and sign it.

Miss HINE. Okay.

Mr. BALL. Thanks very much for coming in.

Miss HINE. You are very welcome.

TESTIMONY OF MISS DORIS BURNS

The testimony of Miss Doris Burns was taken at 3:20 p.m., on April 7, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Messrs. Joseph A. Ball and Samuel A. Stern, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. BALL. Please stand up and hold up your right hand and be sworn.

Miss BURNS. (complying).

Mr. BALL. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Miss BURNS. I do.

Mr. BALL. What is your name, please?

Miss BURNS. Doris Burns.

Mr. BALL. What is your address?

Miss BURNS. 2617 Shelby, Dallas.

Mr. BALL. What is your occupation?

Miss BURNS. I am a correspondent for the Macmillan Co.

Mr. BALL. Where is your office?

Miss BURNS. In the Texas School Book Depository Building on the third floor.

Mr. BALL. Can you tell me something about yourself, where you were born and what your education is, and what your business occupation has been.

Miss BURNS. Well, I was born in Tyler, Tex., and I graduated from high school here in Dallas and I worked many years for lawyers here.

Mr. BALL. What kind of work?

Miss BURNS. Well, I was just a legal secretary and worked for Vanette Hosiery Mills, secretary to the president. They are not here any more, I don't think. After that I worked for a geologist.

Mr. BALL. Most of your work has been secretarial, has it?

Miss BURNS. Yes, but at Macmillan I mostly compose my own letters.

Mr. BALL. When did you go to work for Macmillan?

Miss BURNS. April 19, 1955. Am I too fast?

Mr. BALL. She can write as fast as you talk.

Miss BURNS. That's wonderful.

Mr. BALL. Go right ahead.

Miss BURNS. Let's see, I've forgotten what else you wanted to know.

Mr. BALL. Well, first of all, you went to work in 1955?

Miss BURNS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Where is the office of the Macmillan Co.?

Miss BURNS. Well, at that time it was on Ross and Akard; now----

Mr. BALL. Where was it in November 1963?

Miss BURNS. At Elm and Houston.

Mr. BALL. What part of the building?

Miss BURNS. On the third floor, room 301.

Mr. BALL. Are there any windows in those offices?

Miss BURNS. Yes; they have some windows; they face the west, I guess you would say. They don't overlook the route of the President's----

Mr. BALL. Do they or do they not overlook Elm Street?

Miss BURNS. They do not overlook Elm Street.

Mr. BALL. They overlook the railroad yards, do they?

Miss BURNS. That is right.

Mr. BALL. On November 22d, what were you doing that day?

Miss BURNS. I was listening to the radio as I worked.

Mr. BALL. About noon, did you go to lunch?

Miss BURNS. Well, I had lunch at the office and then I didn't intend to go see the President, didn't have any desire to but I left about--I don't remember the exact time but, anyway, when I left they said on the radio that he--that the motorcade was coming up, I believe it was Cedar Springs; anyway, he hadn't been away from the airport long and that he was going about 5 miles an hour so everybody could see him. Well, thinking he was going that slowly, I thought I had plenty of time, so I walked up to Sanger's.

Mr. BALL. To where?

Miss BURNS. Sanger's.

Mr. BALL. Where is that?

Miss BURNS. It's about four blocks up Elm Street.

Mr. BALL. Which way on Elm--east?

Miss BURNS. East; you see, we are down at the extreme west end of the street; nothing else down there.

Mr. BALL. Then what happened?

Miss BURNS. I bought some Kleenex and came back, and everybody was out on the steps to look, but I didn't stop. I went on back to the office.

Mr. BALL. That is the third floor?

Miss BURNS. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Was anybody in the office?

Miss BURNS. Yes; Mrs. Case hadn't ever gone out. She was there. I believe she was the only one.

Mr. BALL. What did you do?

Miss BURNS. I listened to the radio, and by that time they said that he was on Main and turning at Houston or Main by the courthouse, so since he was that close, I thought, well, I guess I will go look out the window. I didn't care enough to go downstairs, but I thought I will go look out the window. So I thought I would have plenty of time, if he was just coming around Main Street, that I could still get around there, so I went around to American Book Co., which is the office closest to us that had a window looking out on Elm. There was nobody in there, so then I started down the hall to Allyn and Bacon. As I went down this hall towards the windows that looked out on Houston Street, I heard a shot, but I didn't think much about it. I didn't, of course, know it was a shot because when you hear tires backfire and all, they all sound alike to me, so I didn't think a thing about that.

I went around to Allyn and Bacon, and Mr. Wilson, the manager, was at the window looking out. He was the only one in there, so I asked him if I could look out the window with him. About that time he said "Oh, my God, there's been a shooting." I still didn't think anybody, of course, had been killed, just thought somebody had shot in the air or something, so I said "Has the President already passed? And he said "Yes," so I looked out and that big bus that had the press in it, had the word "Press" or whatever it was on the bus, was passing, so I said "Well, I guess I have missed the President then," and I started on back out of the office and I just said as I left, "Well, I hope nobody got hurt."

Mr. BALL. You heard how many shots?

Miss BURNS. One.

Mr. BALL. Just one?

Miss BURNS. It must have been the last one because I didn't hear any more.

Mr. BALL. Did you have any idea where it was coming from?

Miss BURNS. Well, it just sounded as though it was back of me. You see, I was going towards Houston Street. I was facing east and it sounded to me as if it came toward my back.

Mr. BALL. You were in the building?

Miss BURNS. Yes; I was in the building.

Mr. BALL. Walking down the hall?

Miss BURNS. Walking down the hall going towards Allyn and Bacon.

Mr. BALL. Now, what happened after that?

Miss BURNS. I came on back and listened to the radio some more and in a few minutes, why, they told it.

Mr. BALL. Did you ever know Lee Harvey Oswald?

Miss BURNS. I rode on the elevator with him one time.

Mr. BALL. That's all?

Miss BURNS. But I didn't know who he was--about a week before.

Mr. BALL. You never talked to him?

Miss BURNS. I never talked to him.

Mr. BALL. Who were you with at the time this happened?

Miss BURNS. The Macmillan Co.

Mr. BALL. Who was in the office with you?

Miss BURNS. Mrs. Case, but I couldn't see her.

Mr. BALL. She was in the same office?

Miss BURNS. I have a private office. She was around the corner where her office is.

Mr. BALL. Mrs. Case?

Miss BURNS. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Did you hear anybody running down the stairs at any time?

Miss BURNS. Yes, but I didn't know----

Mr. BALL. When?

Miss BURNS. It was after that; I went to the restroom.

Mr. BALL. How long after?

Miss BURNS. I imagine maybe it was 25 minutes. I imagine it was the policeman or somebody; of course, I don't know who it was.

Mr. BALL. I think that's all, Miss Burns. This will be written up and you can sign it; you can read it and sign it or you can waive your signature if you wish and you won't have to come back here. Which would you rather do?

Miss BURNS. I can waive signature if that is all right.

Mr. BALL. Fine, thank you very much, Miss Burns.

TESTIMONY OF MARY E. BLEDSOE

The testimony of Mary E. Bledsoe was taken at 9:30 a.m., on April 2, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Messrs. Joseph A. Ball, David W. Belin, and Albert E. Jenner, Jr., assistant counsel of the President's Commission. Mrs. Mary E. Bledsoe was accompanied by her attorney, Miss Melody June Douthit.

Mr. BALL. Will you stand up, Mrs. Bledsoe, please. Will you raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to give before this Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. I do.

Mr. BALL. State your name, please.

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Mary E. Bledsoe.

Mr. BALL. And your residence?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. 621 North Marsalis.

Mr. BALL. Mrs. Bledsoe, you received a letter from the counsel for the Commission asking you to be here today, didn't you?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. And you received that what date? March 26, or was it March 27?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. When? This first time?

Miss DOUTHIT. No, back.

Mr. BALL. I mean the letter your attorney just showed me. Seventeenth of March?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.

Mr. BALL. And you have come down here in response to that letter, haven't you?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes.

Mr. BALL. And you are here appearing with your attorney, who is present at this time?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes.

Mr. BALL. You've been asked to give testimony in this matter which concerns an investigation into the assassination of President Kennedy, and certain facts which you have, which I believe that you knew of, and we are going to ask you questions about it. That is the general subject of the investigation.

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.

Mr. BALL. And you are willing to testify, are you not?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes.

Mr. BALL. And give us as much help as you can?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes.

Mr. BALL. What is your--you have given us your address, haven't you?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Can you tell me something, briefly, about your past life? Where you were born and what your education was and what your occupation has been?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. I was born in the country. Town of about 12 miles from Corsicanna, Tex. My father was a doctor down there, and I was a second child; I have a brother older than I am. And then I moved to Ennis, and then come to Dallas and lived here until I was a little girl, 4 or 5 years old, then I went back down to Ennis and my father practiced medicine in Ennis, Tex., and then about--I married then when I was 17, and then I moved around quite a little while I was married, but--and then my husband and I, we had trouble, and I divorced him in--oh, about in 1925, and I raised my two children by myself, and I have been in the place where I live 24 years, and over on the back, I was--I have been here 43 years in the neighborhood, and I raised both of my boys, and they are grown.

Mr. BALL. Your occupation has been that of a housewife?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes. Well, I had rented rooms, but I had some money my father had given me. I had some money from him.

Mr. BALL. Your present address, you rent rooms, do you?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes; I do, now. I have just started in September again. My son left home, you see, and I started----

Mr. BALL. That was September of 1963?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes.

Mr. BALL. How large a house is that?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, it is all on one floor. And I have four bedrooms, but I rent three.

Mr. BALL. In September of 1963, you were living there alone, were you?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; my son was living there.

Mr. BALL. And he left?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.

Mr. BALL. Did you rent rooms before your son left your home?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, let's see, now, oh, yes; uh-huh, in September I----

Mr. BALL. Except his bedroom?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes; uh-huh.

Mr. BALL. When he left you rented another bedroom, did you?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well yes; I am trying to. Haven't got it rented.

Mr. BALL. Now, did you ever rent a room in your home to Lee Oswald?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes; uh-huh.

Mr. BALL. Can you tell me about the first time that you ever saw him. What the date was?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. The first time I ever saw him or heard of him, I was in the backyard doing a lot of yardwork. I come around the house and he was standing on the porch, and he said, "Do you have a room for rent?"

I had a "for rent" sign out. I said, "Yes" and he said, "May I see it?"

And I wanted--"Yes"; and then I was trying to size him up to get in that room, and--in the house, and I said, "Are you married?"

And he said, "Yes; I am married. I just want this for a short time. My wife lives at Irving."

And then we got inside the house and he had a thing where this--pictures of his wife and baby, and he said he was in the Marine Corps, and I tried to be nice to him, and so, he paid me $7, and----

Mr. BALL. Then did he tell you what his name was?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Oh, yes.

Mr. BALL. What did he say?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. His name was Oswald, and he put it on this thing, and my son took it and sold it.

Mr. BALL. You said he put it on this thing?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. This right here.

Mr. BALL. What is, "this thing"?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Calendar.

Mr. BALL. Well----

Miss DOUTHIT. Mary, why don't you pull up your chair and be comfortable while you are doing this. Now, you are all right.

Mr. BALL. Now, you have a calendar here?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. That is my calendar.

Mr. BALL. That is the calendar for December 1963, and I notice it has dates and names and dates. Is that the way you keep books on your rooms?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes; but I don't now. I did then, because I just had started. The first one I got was in September.

Mr. BALL. September of 1963?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.

Mr. BALL. He put his name on the calendar?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, got it in September. He got it, my son sold it for $5, and I didn't even know that he tore that out.

Mr. BALL. Now, let me see here in this calendar. It runs from January 1963, to December of 1963, but October of 1963, has been torn out?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh. And he said his name was Lee Oswald was what his name was, and I said, "Well, I can't think of that name Oswald, I will call you Lee."

So, he put it down on the 4th. Just rented for a week, you see, the 7th.

Mr. BALL. You said the 4th?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. On the 7th.

Mr. BALL. On the 7th of October? That is the first day you ever saw him?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Ever saw him.

Mr. BALL. On the 7th of October you rented the room to him, didn't you?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.

Mr. BALL. And is that the date that he put his name on the calendar?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes; that is the day.

Mr. BALL. He paid you $7?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. $7 in money.

Mr. BALL. That was the rental?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. For one room.

Mr. BALL. For one room for 1 week?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. When did he move into the room?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Right then.

Mr. BALL. Did he have his things?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Had his things on his hand and had his bag, but after he paid my $7 he went out--I don't know, I think this YMCA, but I am not supposed to know where, and brought back another bag, and then he said, "Well, where is the grocery store?"

Well, I said, "It is down that way," but I didn't want him to use the kitchen, so, he said, "I'm going to get some milk," and so, I didn't like that much, but I didn't say anything about it because I wanted to get along with him.

Mr. BALL. Let me ask you some questions before we commence the grocery store part of it.

When you first saw him, did he have his luggage with him?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes.

Mr. BALL. What did he have with him?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. A bag.

Mr. BALL. Will you describe the bag?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. I don't remember where--seemed like it was a kind of a duffelbag.

Mr. BALL. The kind the men in the service put their clothes in?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes; and had some on his arm, these coathangers, you know.

Mr. BALL. Had some things on a coathanger?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. And had a clock.

Mr. BALL. Had what?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. A clock, wrapped up.

Mr. BALL. What color was this duffelbag?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. I think it was blue.

Mr. BALL. That was the only bag he had with him?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. No, he went off to town and got another one.

Mr. BALL. Then he went off to town and brought another bag back, would you describe that?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. No, I didn't pay any attention to it.

Mr. BALL. Was it leather or----

Mrs. BLEDSOE. I couldn't say.

Mr. BALL. Could you give me any idea of the size of it?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, it was big. About like that [indicating].

Mr. BALL. About like that, you mean, oh, 3 feet long, 2 feet, 2-1/2?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; about like that.

Mr. BALL. About----

Mrs. BLEDSOE. As well as I remember.

Mr. BALL. About 2 feet long? Was it brown?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. I just couldn't remember. I didn't pay any attention to it.

Mr. BALL. Do you remember the color?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.

Mr. BALL. Do you remember him carrying it into the room?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes; I remember he went in.

Mr. BALL. Now----

Mrs. BLEDSOE. But, I didn't pay any attention. He rented the room, and I didn't pay any attention.

Mr. BALL. Did he carry it by a handle, or in his arms?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. I guess he carried it by a handle, but I don't know.

Mr. BALL. He brought two bags into this room?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes; wasn't but one when he come in, but next time he went off----

Mr. BALL. He brought another one back?

How did he come out there, do you know?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. I don't know. I don't know whether he come here--he come and just knocked on the door. I was in the backyard.

Mr. BALL. After he moved, after he put his bags in his room, did he leave?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; he said----

Mr. BALL. I mean, did he leave to go downtown to get the other bag?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh, and come back.

Mr. BALL. Did you see him leave?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; I didn't see him.

Mr. BALL. The time he went to get the other bag, did you see him?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. No.

Mr. BALL. Do you know what kind of transportation he had?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. No; I guess I didn't pay any attention to him.

Mr. BALL. Did you ever see him drive up in a car?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. No, always took a bus.

Mr. BALL. How do you know that?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well, I saw--one time he stopped over there across the street and get the bus that is the only time I didn't--I didn't watch what he did. Of course, I had no idea he was the kind of man he was.

Mr. BALL. You say that he asked you where the grocery store was?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Uh-huh.

Mr. BALL. Is that when he came back with this second bag?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Yes; uh-huh, I got him something to eat.

Mr. BALL. Did you talk to him anything about his using your refrigerator?

Mrs. BLEDSOE. Well----