Part 55

Mr. BELIN. Will you state what you saw, what you did, and what you heard?

Miss ADAMS. I watched the motorcade come down Main, as it turned from Main onto Houston, and watched it proceed around the corner on Elm, and apparently somebody in the crowd called to the late President, because he and his wife both turned abruptly and faced the building, so we had a very good view of both of them.

Mr. BELIN. Where was their car as you got this good view, had it come directly opposite your window? Had it come to that point on Elm, or not, if you can remember?

Miss ADAMS. I believe it was prior, just a second or so prior to that.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Miss ADAMS. And from our vantage point we were able to see what the President's wife was wearing, the roses in the car, and things that would attract women's attention. Then we heard--then we were obstructed from the view.

Mr. BELIN. By what?

Miss ADAMS. A tree. And we heard a shot, and it was a pause, and then a second shot, and then a third shot.

It sounded like a firecracker or a cannon at a football game, it seemed as if it came from the right below rather than from the left above. Possibly because of the report.

And after the third shot, following that, the third shot, I went to the back of the building down the back stairs, and encountered Bill Shelley and Bill Lovelady on the first floor on the way out to the Houston Street dock.

Mr. BELIN. When you say on the way out to the Houston Street dock, you mean now you were on the way out?

Miss ADAMS. While I was on the way out.

Mr. BELIN. Was anyone going along with you?

Miss ADAMS. Yes, sir; Sandra Styles.

Mr. BELIN. Sometime after the third shot, and I don't want to get into the actual period of time yet, you went back into the stockroom which would be to the north of where your offices are located on the fourth floor, is that correct?

Miss ADAMS. Yes, sir; that's correct.

Mr. BELIN. When you got into the stockroom, where did you go?

Miss ADAMS. I went to the back stairs.

Mr. BELIN. Are there any other stairs that lead down from the fourth floor other than those back stairs in the rear of the stockroom?

Miss ADAMS. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Those stairs would be in the northwest corner of the building, is that correct?

Miss ADAMS. That's correct.

Mr. BELIN. You took those stairs. Were you walking or running as you went down the stairs?

Miss. ADAMS. I was running. We were running.

Mr. BELIN. What kind of shoes did you have on?

Miss ADAMS. Three-inch heels.

Mr. BELIN. You had heels. Now, as you were running down the stairs, did you encounter anyone?

Miss ADAMS. Not during the actual running down the stairs; no, sir.

Mr. BELIN. After you left the Scott Foresman office and went into the stockroom, did you see anyone until you got to the stairs on the fourth floor other than the person you were with?

Miss ADAMS. Outside of our office employees; no.

Mr. BELIN. Would these office employees that you might have seen, all be women?

Miss ADAMS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Then you got to the stairs and you started going down the stairs. You went from the fourth floor to the third floor?

Miss ADAMS. That's correct?

Mr. BELIN. Anyone on the stairs then?

Miss ADAMS. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this. As you got to the stairs on the fourth floor, did you notice whether or not the elevator was running?

Miss ADAMS. The elevator was not moving.

Mr. BELIN. How do you know it was not moving on some other floor?

Miss ADAMS. Because the cables move when the elevator is moved, and this is evidenced because of a wooden grate.

Mr. BELIN. By that you mean a wooden door with slats in it that you have to lift up to get on the elevator?

Miss ADAMS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Did you look to see if the elevator was moving?

Miss ADAMS. It was not; no, sir.

Mr. BELIN. It was not moving?

Miss ADAMS. No.

Mr. BELIN. Did you happen to see where the elevator might have been located?

Miss ADAMS. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. As you got to the third door, did you take a look at the elevator again at all, or not, if you remember?

Miss ADAMS. I can't recall.

Mr. BELIN. As you got off the stairs on the third floor, did you see anyone on the third floor?

Miss ADAMS. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Then you immediately went to the stairs going down from the third to the second?

Miss ADAMS. That's correct.

Mr. BELIN. As you ran down the stairs, did you see anyone on the stairs?

Miss ADAMS. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. All right. You got down to the second floor. Did you see anyone by the second floor?

Miss ADAMS. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Did you immediately turn and run and keep on running down the stairs towards the first floor?

Miss ADAMS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. When you got to the bottom of the first floor, did you see anyone there as you entered the first floor from the stairway?

Miss ADAMS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Who did you see?

Miss ADAMS. Mr. Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady.

Mr. BELIN. Where did you see them on the first floor?

Miss ADAMS. Well, this is the stairs, and this is the Houston Street dock that I went out. They were approximately in this position here, so I don't know how you would describe that.

Mr. BELIN. You are looking now at a first floor plan or diagram of the Texas School Book Depository, and you have pointed to a position where you encountered Bill Lovelady and Mr. Bill Shelley?

Miss ADAMS. That's correct.

Mr. BELIN. It would be slightly east of the front of the east elevator, and probably as far south as the length of the elevator, is that correct?

Miss ADAMS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. I have a document here called Commission's Exhibit No. 496, which includes a diagram of the first door, and there is a No. 7 and a circle on it, and I have pointed to a place marked No. 7 on the diagram. Is that correct?

Miss ADAMS. That is approximate.

Mr. BELIN. Between the time you got off the stairs and the time you got to this point when you say you encountered them, which was somewhat to the south and a little bit east of the front of the east elevator, did you see any other employees there?

Miss ADAMS. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Any other people prior to the time you saw them?

Miss ADAMS. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Now when you were running down the stairs on your trip down the stairs, did you hear anyone using the stairs?

Miss ADAMS. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Did you hear anyone calling for an elevator?

Miss ADAMS. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see the foreman, Roy Truly? Did you see the superintendent of the warehouse, Roy S. Truly?

Miss ADAMS. No, sir; I did not.

Mr. BELIN. What about any motorcycle police officers?

Miss ADAMS. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Now what did you do after you encountered Mr. Shelley and Mr. Lovelady?

Miss ADAMS. I said I believed the President was shot.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what they said?

Miss ADAMS. Nothing.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Miss ADAMS. I proceeded out to the Houston Street dock.

Mr. BELIN. That would be on this same diagram? It is marked Houston Street dock, and you went through what would be the north door, which is towards the rear of the first floor, is that correct?

And down some stairs towards the rear of the dock?

Miss ADAMS. That's correct.

Mr. BELIN. Where did you go from there?

Miss ADAMS. I proceeded--which way is east and west?

Mr. BELIN. East is here. East is towards Houston, and west is towards the railroad tracks.

You went east or west? Towards the railroad tracks or towards Houston Street?

Miss ADAMS. I went west towards the tracks.

Mr. BELIN. How far west did you go?

Miss ADAMS. I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here."

And he said, "That is tough, get back."

I said, "Well, was the President shot?"

And he said, "I don't know. Go back."

And I said, "All right."

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Miss ADAMS. I went back, only I went southwest.

Mr. BELIN. Well, did you come back by way of the street, or did you come back the same entrance you went out?

Miss ADAMS. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. You went back in through the front entrance, through the front of the building?

Miss ADAMS. Well, I didn't go back in right away.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do then?

There is a street that would be a continuation of Elm Street that goes in front of the building, and Elm Street itself angles into the freeway. Did you go back either of those streets?

Miss ADAMS. Yes, sir. I went by the one directly in front of the building.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got there?

Miss ADAMS. When I got there, I happened to look around and noticed several of the employees, and I noticed Joe Molina, for one, was standing in front of the building, and also Avery Davis, who works with me, and I said, "What do you think has happened?"

And she said, "I don't know."

And I said, "I want to find out." I think the President is shot.

There was a motorcycle that was parked on the corner of Houston and Elm directly in front of the east end of the building, and I paused there to listen to the report on the police radio, and they said that shots had been fired which apparently came either from the second floor or the fourth floor window, and so I panicked, as I was at the only open window on the fourth floor.

Mr. BELIN. Did they say second floor or second floor from the top?

Miss ADAMS. It said second floor. So then I decided maybe I had better go back into the building, and going up the stairs----

Mr. BELIN. Now at this time when you went back into the building, were there any policemen standing in front of the building keeping people out?

Miss ADAMS. There was an officer on the stairs itself, and he was prohibiting people from entering the building, that is correct. But I told him I worked there.

Mr. BELIN. Did he let you come back in?

Miss ADAMS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Miss ADAMS. Following that, I pushed the button for the passenger elevator, but the power had been cut off on the elevator, so I took the stairs to the second floor.

Mr. BELIN. You then went all the way back to the northwest corner of the building and took the same set of stairs you had previously taken to come down, or did you take the stairs by the passenger elevator?

Miss ADAMS. By the passenger elevator.

Mr. BELIN. Do those stairs go above floor 2?

Miss ADAMS. No, sir; they didn't.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got to the second floor?

Miss ADAMS. I went into the Texas School Book Depository office and just listened for a few minutes to the people that were congregating there, and decided there wasn't anything interesting going on, and went out and walked around the hall to the freight elevator meaning the one on the northwest corner.

Mr. BELIN. Would it have been the west or the east? The one nearest the stairs or the other one?

Miss ADAMS. Yes; the one nearest the stairs.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Miss ADAMS. I went into the elevator which was stopped on the second floor, with two men who were dressed in suit and hats, and I assumed they were plainclothesmen.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do then?

Miss ADAMS. I tried to get the elevator to go to the fourth floor, but it wasn't operating, so the gentlemen lifted the elevator gate and we went out and ran up the stairs to the fourth floor.

Mr. BELIN. Then you went back to the Scott Foresman Company offices?

Miss ADAMS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Now trying to reconstruct your actions insofar as the time sequence, which we haven't done, what is your best estimate of the time between the time the shots were fired and the time you got back to the building? How much time elapsed? If you have any estimate. Maybe you don't have one.

Miss ADAMS. I would estimate not more than 5 minutes elapsed.

Mr. BELIN. Is there any particular reason why you make this estimation?

Miss ADAMS. Yes, sir; going down the stairs toward the back, I was running. I ran to the railroad tracks. I moved quickly to the front of the building, paused briefly to talk to someone, listened only to the report of the windows from which the shot supposedly was fired, and returned to the building.

Mr. BELIN. How long do you think it was between the time the shots were fired and the time you left the window to start toward the stairway?

Miss ADAMS. Between 15 and 30 seconds, estimated, approximately.

Mr. BELIN. How long do you think it was, or do you think it took you to get from the window to the top of the fourth floor stairs?

Miss ADAMS. I don't think I can answer that question accurately, because the time approximation, without a stopwatch, would be difficult.

Mr. BELIN. How long do you think it took you to get from the window to the bottom of the stairs on the first floor?

Miss ADAMS. I would say no longer than a minute at the most.

Mr. BELIN. So you think that from the time you left the window on the fourth floor until the time you got to the stairs at the bottom of the first floor, was approximately 1 minute?

Miss ADAMS. Yes, approximately.

Mr. BELIN. As I understand your testimony previously, you saw neither Roy Truly nor any motorcycle police officer at any time?

Miss ADAMS. That's correct.

Mr. BELIN. You heard no one else running down the stairs?

Miss ADAMS. Correct.

Mr. BELIN. When you got to the first floor did you immediately proceed to this point where you say you encountered Mr. Shelley and Mr. Lovelady?

Well, you showed me on a diagram of the first floor that there was a place which was south and somewhat east of the front part of the east elevator that you encountered Truly and Lovelady?

Miss ADAMS. I saw them there.

Mr. BELIN. I mean; you saw them?

Miss ADAMS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Would that have been a matter of seconds after you got to the bottom of the first floor?

Miss ADAMS. Definitely.

Mr. BELIN. Less than 30 seconds?

Miss ADAMS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Do you know, or did you know Lee Harvey Oswald either by sight or by name?

Miss ADAMS. I didn't know Lee Harvey Oswald, per se. I didn't know his name. I recognized him after I saw him on television, as having been with some men, but I had no dealing with him.

Mr. BELIN. By that, you mean having been employed with some men by the Texas School Book Depository?

Miss ADAMS. That's correct.

Mr. BELIN. During the trip down the stairs on the way down did you ever encounter Lee Harvey Oswald?

Miss ADAMS. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Is there any other information that you can think of that might be relevant to anything connected with the assassination?

Miss ADAMS. At the time I left the building on the Houston Street dock, there was an officer standing about 2 yards from the curb, and about from the curb across the street from the Texas School Depository, and about 4 yards from the corner of Houston and Elm, and when we were running out the dock, going around the building, the officer was standing there, and he didn't encounter us or ask us what we were doing or where we were going, and I don't know if that is pertinent.

Mr. BELIN. No one stopped you from getting out of the building when you left?

Miss ADAMS. That's correct.

Mr. BELIN. That is helpful information. Is there any other information that you have that could be relevant?

Miss ADAMS. There was a man that was standing on the corner of Houston and Elm asking questions there. He was dressed in a suit and a hat, and when I encountered Avery Davis going down, we asked who he was, because he was questioning people as if he were a police officer, and we noticed him take a colored boy away on a motorcycle, and this man was asking questions very efficaciously, and we said, "I guess he is maybe a reporter," and later on on television, there was a man that looked very similar to him, and he was identified as Ruby.

And on questioning some police officer, they said they had witnesses to the fact that he was in the Dallas Morning News at the time. And I don't know whether that is relevant or what.

Mr. BELIN. That is all right, we want to get that information down. Was this before you got back in the front door of the building that you saw this?

Miss ADAMS. Yes, sir; while I was standing by the motorcycles.

Mr. BELIN. Is there anything else?

Miss ADAMS. That is all, I believe.

Mr. BELIN. Miss Adams, you have the opportunity if you would like, to read this deposition and sign it before it goes to Washington, or you can waive the signing of it and just let the court reporter send it directly to us. Do you have any preference?

Miss ADAMS. I think I will let you use your own discretion.

Mr. BELIN. It doesn't make any difference to us. If it doesn't make any difference, we can waive it and you won't have to make another trip down here.

Miss ADAMS. That is all right.

Mr. BELIN. We want to thank you for your cooperation. We know that it has taken time on your part. Would you also thank your employer?

Miss ADAMS. Yes, sir.

TESTIMONY OF GENEVA L. HINE

The testimony of Geneva L. Hine was taken at 2:45 p.m., on April 7, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Messrs. Joseph A. Ball and Samuel A. Stern, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. BALL. Please stand up and hold up your right hand. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give the Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Miss HINE. I do.

Mr. BALL. Will you state your name, please?

Miss HINE. Geneva L. Hine.

Mr. BALL. Where do you live.

Miss HINE. 2305 Oakdale Road in Dallas.

Mr. BALL. Can you tell me something about yourself; where you were born and raised, and educated and what kind of work you have done.

Miss. HINE. I was born and raised in Martinsville, Ind., and I graduated from elementary and junior high and high school at that same town. I attended the Ball State Teachers' College in Muncie, Ind., and I attended Metropolitan Bible Institute in Suffern, N.Y., and I received my Bachelor of Science theology degree from Assembly of God College in Waxahachie, Tex.

Mr. BALL. What did you do after that?

Miss HINE. Oh, I have always worked as a one-girl office girl until the job I have now.

Mr. BALL. When did you go to work at the Texas School Book Depository?

Miss HINE. In December 1956.

Mr. BALL. What kind of work do you do there?

Miss HINE. I have the credit desk.

Mr. BALL. Now, in November, November 22, 1963, where was your desk; in what part of the building?

Miss HINE. My desk was on the second floor, the inside wall just along by the corridor.

Mr. BALL. Did you spend most of your time at your desk?

Miss HINE. At that time?

Mr. BALL. Yes; at that time.

Miss HINE. No, sir; the girls were gone and they wanted to go out and see.

Mr. BALL. I mean did you spend most of your time in your work--it was a desk job?

Miss HINE. Yes; that's right.

Mr. BALL. Did you go in the other floors of the building any?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir; as my duties necessitated I did.

Mr. BALL. Did you ever know a fellow named Lee Harvey Oswald?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. When did you first meet him?

Miss HINE. I never met him to know his name but I saw him every day.

Mr. BALL. Where did you see him?

Miss HINE. Downstairs in the warehouse or stockroom whichever you want to call it.

Mr. BALL. The first floor?

Miss HINE. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Did you see him on any other floors?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir; I saw him on the second floor about noontime almost every day. He would come in and ask for change, for a dime or quarter.

Mr. BALL. Did you see him use any part of the second floor?

Miss HINE. No.

Mr. BALL. Did you ever see him spend the dime to buy anything with it?

Miss HINE. No, sir; the coke machine isn't in our room and I wouldn't have seen it.

Mr. BALL. Where is the coke machine?

Miss HINE. Out in the little lunchroom back of our office.

Mr. BALL. Did you ever speak to Oswald?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did he ever speak to you?

Miss HINE. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. He never replied to you?

Miss HINE. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. Would you say he was unfriendly?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir; I would.

Mr. BALL. Did you ever see him smile or laugh?

Miss HINE. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. What kind of an expression did he have on his face most of the time?

Miss HINE. I describe it as being stoic.

Mr. BALL. That's a pretty good description if he doesn't smile.

Miss HINE. It was just----

Mr. BALL. Did you ever mention this to any of the people around there about Oswald?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir; I mentioned it to Mr. Shelley.

Mr. BALL. What did you tell him?

Miss HINE. One day I said to Mr. Shelley, "Who is that queer duck you have working down here" and I said that just as a matter of slang because I've known Mr. Shelley for a long time and I was just talking to him, you see, and usually, all the boys that work down there speak to me because I have to go down there to pick up the little "comp" or gift slips on my desk. Every time I went by him I would speak to him, say "Good morning" and he would never catch or meet my gaze so I just made that remark to Mr. Shelley because I had spoken to him so many times and he never answered.

Mr. BALL. What did Shelley say?

Miss HINE. He said that was just his way.

Mr. BALL. On the 22d of November 1963, did you know that there was to be a motorcade or parade come by your building?

Miss HINE. Oh, yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. How did you find that out?

Miss HINE. Sir, I don't remember. I probably heard over the news but I cannot remember.

Mr. BALL. You were just aware of the fact?

Miss HINE. Yes; I knew it and the girls were discussing it in the office that morning. Many of them, probably six, had not seen the President close. You see, I had seen him on two different occasions and I had been very close to him and so they were lamenting that they couldn't go out so I spoke up and said "I will be glad to answer the telephone so you girls may go out and see the motorcade" and I had previously answered the telephone when we were in the other building before we moved in this building, so they were delighted and I thought nothing about it.

Mr. BALL. Did they all go out?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir; everyone went out.

Mr. BALL. Was there anyone left in the office part of the building on that second floor office?

Miss HINE. Only Mr. Williams and myself and he stayed with me because he was working on his desk until he thought that the motorcade was about there.

Mr. BALL. Then he went out?

Miss HINE. When he thought it was about there he said "I think I will go out for 5 minutes."

Mr. BALL. What is his name?

Miss HINE. Otis N. Williams.

Mr. BALL. He works in the office, too?

Miss HINE. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Did you have to change your desk over to another desk?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir; to the middle desk on the front row.

Mr. BALL. Was there a switchboard?

Miss HINE. No, sir; we have a telephone with three incoming lines, then we have the warehouse line and we have an intercom system.

Mr. BALL. You don't have a switchboard?

Miss HINE. Not now; we did in the other building.

Mr. BALL. Were you alone then at this time?

Miss HINE. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Did you stay at your desk?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir; I was alone until the lights all went out and the phones became dead because the motorcade was coming near us and no one was calling so I got up and thought I could see it from the east window in our office.

Mr. BALL. Did you go to the window?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did you look out?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. What did you see?

Miss HINE. I saw the escort car come first up the middle of Houston Street.

Mr. BALL. Going north on Houston Street?