Part 48

Mr. BALL. Did you examine it to see whether or not there was on the clipboard any orders?

Mr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Unfilled orders?

Mr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir; there were some invoices on it.

Mr. BALL. Were you able to identify those invoices and state to whom they had been assigned to fill?

Mr. SHELLEY. They were Scott, Foresman invoices.

Mr. BALL. Scott, Foresman invoices?

Mr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir; and he filled mostly Scott, Foresman orders.

Mr. BALL. Who is "he"?

Mr. SHELLEY. Oswald.

Mr. BALL. Oswald filled mostly Scott, Foresman orders?

Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.

Mr. BALL. That is Foresman [spelling]?

Mr. SHELLEY. Foresman [spelling].

Mr. BALL. Was there any other order filler who filled Scott, Foresman invoices?

Mr. SHELLEY. Any of the other boys would if they ran out of other publishers' orders. When I get those orders, I sort them according to publishers and during rush season like that, usually, have one guy sticking as close to one publisher as he can because skipping back and forth you have different codes and everything and it is confusing to them.

Mr. BALL. So, in the morning would you have assigned all Scott, Foresman to Oswald on that Friday morning?

Mr. SHELLEY. He already had the orders and was working when I got there.

Mr. BALL. He had?

Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Who would determine what orders they would get?

Mr. SHELLEY. When we run out of orders they get to one of the boxes and get orders for Scott, Foresman. He had been trained for Scott, Foresman.

Mr. BALL. Would orders be assigned the day before?

Mr. SHELLEY. No, sir; we don't definitely assign them to anyone. The boys know what they can fill best and as long as they are putting the work out----

Mr. BALL. I want to know how a man working on Scott, Foresman--suppose Oswald came to work on Friday morning, tell me what routine he would follow, where he would get the orders he was to fill.

Mr. SHELLEY. He would go over to the order desk and get them out of a box marked Scott, Foresman.

Mr. BALL. They would have Scott, Foresman on it?

Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Is he the only one that in the morning when he came to work would get the orders out of the box marked Scott, Foresman?

Mr. SHELLEY. No, sir; if there wasn't any orders in any of the other boxes any other order filler would take them.

Mr. BALL. Do you know whether or not he was filling Scott, Foresman orders that day?

Mr. SHELLEY. No, sir; not for sure.

Mr. BALL. Do you know whether anybody else was filling Scott, Foresman orders that day?

Mr. SHELLEY. I am sure they were; that's our biggest publishers; there's more of them.

Mr. BALL. Then you believe others besides Oswald were filling Scott, Foresman orders that day?

Mr. SHELLEY. Probably were.

Mr. BALL. Is there any way you can determine what order filler had that clipboard?

Mr. SHELLEY. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. On November 22, 1963?

Mr. SHELLEY. No, sir; it's one that looked like the one he had used.

Mr. BALL. It did look like the one he had used?

Mr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. There were how many unfilled orders on that clipboard when it was found?

Mr. SHELLEY. Two or three, best I remember.

Mr. BALL. Did you keep a list of them?

Mr. SHELLEY. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did anybody make a list of them?

Mr. SHELLEY. Not unless Mr. Pinkston did.

Mr. BALL. Mr. Pinkston of the FBI?

Mr. SHELLEY. Yes; he called in about the thing and in a little while he released it and said go ahead and fill the orders which we did because they were several days old.

Mr. BALL. You mean those orders that were on that clipboard had never been filled?

Mr. SHELLEY. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. So you went ahead and filled them?

Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.

Mr. BALL. How do you spell his name--Pinkston?

Mr. SHELLEY. I don't know how to spell it. Mr. Pinkston is all I know.

Mr. BALL. Pinkston, okay. I think that's all, Mr. Shelley. Thanks very much. This will be written up and you can come down and read it and sign it or we can waive signature; which would you rather do?

Mr. SHELLEY. I suppose it doesn't make any difference. What are the others doing?

Mr. BALL. Some waived, some insist on reading it; which would you rather do?

Mr. SHELLEY. I would kind of like to see it for curiosity.

Mr. BALL. Come down and sign it, all right. Where was the clipboard found?

Mr. SHELLEY. On the sixth floor in the far corner.

Mr. BALL. Which corner?

Mr. SHELLEY. By the stairway.

Mr. BALL. That would be the northwest?

Mr. SHELLEY. Northwest, yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. All right, fine. Thank you very much, Mr. Shelley.

TESTIMONY OF NAT A. PINKSTON

The testimony of Nat A. Pinkston was taken at 12:10 p.m., on April 9, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Joseph A. Ball, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. BALL. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. PINKSTON. I do.

Mr. BALL. State your name, please.

Mr. PINKSTON. Nat A. Pinkston.

Mr. BALL. What is your occupation?

Mr. PINKSTON. I'm a Special Agent with the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Mr. BALL. Have you had your deposition taken before this proceeding?

Mr. PINKSTON. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. Your address is what?

Mr. PINKSTON. My residence address is 2106 Van Cleave Drive, Dallas.

Mr. BALL. And how long have you been a Special Agent for the Federal Bureau of Investigation?

Mr. PINKSTON. Be 24 years next month.

Mr. BALL. And you are assigned to what office?

Mr. PINKSTON. Dallas, Tex.

Mr. BALL. Now, you did not receive a letter from the Commission asking you to testify, did you?

Mr. PINKSTON. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. You were asked to come over here by Mr. Shanklin?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes.

Mr. BALL. At my request, wasn't it?

Mr. PINKSTON. Well, I----

Mr. BALL. Anyway, you were asked to come over here by Mr. Shanklin and he advised you that your deposition would be taken at that time?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes.

Mr. BALL. The deposition taken in the course of an investigation by the Commission to investigate the facts concerning the circumstances surrounding the assassination of President Kennedy, and I am a staff officer. My name is Joseph A. Ball. I am authorized to administer the oath to you and to ask you certain questions concerning some matters which you do have knowledge of.

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. You are willing to testify, are you not?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. In the course of your investigation, were you called to the Texas School Book Depository sometimes around the 2d of December 1963?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. And who asked you to come down there?

Mr. PINKSTON. I was instructed by one of my supervisors to conduct an investigation there on that date.

Mr. BALL. On that date?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did you see a fellow by the name of Frankie Kaiser?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. And Roy Truly?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. What did they tell you when you came down there?

Mr. PINKSTON. To the best of my recollection I was there waiting to see Mr. Truly. He was somewhere else in the building, and I was waiting for him on the occasion in question. Frankie Kaiser came down the stairs and said that he had found something on the sixth floor. I didn't--I then accompanied him back to the sixth floor where he pointed out on the floor near the entrance to the stair well, a clipboard with some orders on it, and--pardon me a second, do you want me to testify to what Kaiser told me, which is hearsay----

Mr. BALL. That is all right, but Kaiser told you that when you were downstairs, that something--didn't he? When he was--did Kaiser come downstairs?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes; Kaiser came downstairs and took me back upstairs with him and pointed out the clipboard which he had left on the floor.

Mr. BALL. Did he say he had left it there?

Mr. PINKSTON. He had seen it there and did not bother it.

Mr. BALL. I see.

Mr. PINKSTON. He did not put it there.

Mr. BALL. I see. Kaiser told you and you went upstairs and Kaiser pointed out the clipboard?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. First, the location of the clipboard.

Mr. PINKSTON. The clipboard was generally in the northwest corner of the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository. It was on the floor behind the books, against the wall of the stair well.

Mr. BALL. There were some book cartons in front of it, were there?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Now, did Frankie Kaiser say something? That is hearsay, but I would like to hear what it was.

Mr. PINKSTON. He told me this clipboard was the one that he had made, and had given to Oswald when Oswald went to work at the School Book Depository.

Mr. BALL. Did you examine the clipboard?

Mr. PINKSTON. I did, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did it have anybody's name on it?

Mr. PINKSTON. It had quite a bit of scribbling on it, and I believe--well, I am not in a position to say right now exactly what it had on it other than some orders.

Mr. BALL. It did have some orders on it?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. And did you examine the orders?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Can you tell me the date of the orders and the general description of the orders?

Mr. PINKSTON. Three orders on this clipboard. Each order was dated November 22d. The first was an order from Mrs. Hazel Carroll of the Reading Clinic, SMU, for one Parliamentary Procedure at $1.40. Was published by Scott, Foresman & Co.

And this invoice bore No. 2454. The second one was an order from Dallas Independent School District from Mr. M. J. Morton, purchasing agent, at the School Administration Building, 3700 Ross Avenue, Dallas, Tex., for 10 ERS, Basic Reading Skills, for high schools, revised, at $1.12, or total of $11.20. Published by Scott, Foresman & Co.

The Invoice was No. 6057.

The third order was an order to be sent to Mr. M. K. Baker, Junior High School, Reynosa, New Mex., for one TE Basic Reading Skills. J. H. S. use. No charge. Sent at the request of Miss Mary Williams. Publisher; Scott, Foresman & Co., invoice 8291.

Each of these orders, as I say, were dated November 22, 1963.

Mr. BALL. What did you do when you--with the orders after you made these notations?

Mr. PINKSTON. I turned them over to Mr. Truly. He desired to fill the orders.

Mr. BALL. What did you do with the clipboard?

Mr. PINKSTON. I returned the clipboard to my office and made an exhibit of it, as I recall.

Mr. BALL. Is it still an exhibit? It is an FBI exhibit?

Mr. PINKSTON. I believe so.

Mr. BALL. In the possession of the FBI?

Mr. PINKSTON. I haven't seen it since then.

Mr. BALL. Will you try to determine if you still have that as an exhibit in your office, or in Washington?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes.

Mr. BALL. All right.

Now, this will be written up and will be submitted to you for your signature, or you can waive your signature.

Mr. PINKSTON. I would like to----

Mr. BALL. See it and read it?

Mr. PINKSTON. See it and read it and sign it.

Mr. BALL. You will be notified to come to this office and read it and sign it.

(After the conclusion of the deposition and at 1 o'clock, p.m., on the same day as the taking of the deposition, Mr. Nat A. Pinkston appeared before me, Iris Leonard, stating that he wished the following statement to be incorporated with his deposition: "After reviewing my records, I am now able to state definitely that after examining the clipboard and the orders thereon, I left them at the Texas School Book Depository with Mr. Truly. The clipboard was picked up by another FBI agent at a later time and was made an exhibit.")

TESTIMONY OF BILLY NOLAN LOVELADY

The testimony of Billy Nolan Lovelady was taken at 3:50 p.m., on April 7, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Messrs. Joseph A. Ball and Samuel A. Stern, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. BALL. Will you please stand, hold up your right hand and be sworn?

Mr. BALL. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. LOVELADY. I do.

Mr. BALL. State your name, please.

Mr. LOVELADY. Billy Nolan Lovelady.

Mr. BALL. You received a letter from the Commission, didn't you?

Mr. LOVELADY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. You know the purpose of the investigation?

Mr. LOVELADY. Right.

Mr. BALL. Can you tell me something about yourself, where you were born and what your education was and your experience, in general?

Mr. LOVELADY. Well, I was born at Myrtle Springs, Tex., 1937, February 19, and lived there for about 20 years until I went into the service and I did nursery work and that's about all there is, farm work down there and nursery and stuff like that.

Mr. BALL. When did you go to work for Texas School Book Depository?

Mr. LOVELADY. December 16, 1961, I believe it was.

Mr. BALL. What kind of work did you do there?

Mr. LOVELADY. Well, they hired me when I went there as a truck driver, drove truck until another job as stockman was open, taking care of the stock that comes in, see that it's put in the right place.

Mr. BALL. Which one of the buildings do you work in?

Mr. LOVELADY. At the one at 411 Elm.

Mr. BALL. On November 22, 1963, where were you working?

Mr. LOVELADY. At that morning, you mean?

Mr. BALL. Yes.

Mr. LOVELADY. I was working on the sixth floor putting--we was putting down that flooring.

Mr. BALL. Who were you working with?

Mr. LOVELADY. Well, there was Bonnie Ray Williams and Danny Arce and Slim, Charles Givens; we call him Slim, and let me see, well Mr. Shelley would come up every once in while, check on us. He wasn't workin' with us but he would come up see how we gettin' along.

Mr. BALL. That's Mr. Shelley?

Mr. LOVELADY. Mr. Bill Shelley.

Mr. BALL. What is his position with Texas School Book Depository?

Mr. LOVELADY. He would be under Mr. R. S. Truly.

Mr. BALL. Is he a foreman?

Mr. LOVELADY. I guess you would call it that. He takes care of most things down there, paperwork and stuff like that.

Mr. BALL. Did you know Lee Oswald?

Mr. LOVELADY. Well just to work with him.

Mr. BALL. Did you ever talk to him?

Mr. LOVELADY. Well, I never did carry on any long conversations or anything like that, maybe, you know, "Hello," or I asked him a few times how his little baby was getting along; he told me it was doing fine.

Mr. BALL. Where did Oswald work in the building?

Mr. LOVELADY. Well, he had access to all the building just like I do.

Mr. BALL. All floors?

Mr. LOVELADY. All floors.

Mr. BALL. Any floor?

Mr. LOVELADY. Any floor; I mean he didn't have no business in the office. I mean, or to if, say, like Mr. Truly would say "Okay, Lee, go up and give me a certain something from the office," he could go up there.

Mr. BALL. Did he work on one floor more than any other?

Mr. LOVELADY. No; I wouldn't say because there's different publishers on each order and he has to go to different floors to get books.

Mr. BALL. Did Oswald ever eat lunch with you?

Mr. LOVELADY. He ate two or three times in that little domino room, but not by himself, with the rest of the boys.

Mr. BALL. Did you see him come to work that morning?

Mr. LOVELADY. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did you ever see him carry a sack or anything in his hand?

Mr. LOVELADY. No, sir; just lunch.

Mr. BALL. Did he usually carry his lunch or did he buy his lunch?

Mr. LOVELADY. Most of the time he had fruit and stuff like that, grapes and raisins, stuff like that I noticed a few times he had.

Mr. BALL. What time did you quit work that day or knock off for lunch that day?

Mr. LOVELADY. Same time, 12.

Mr. BALL. A little before 12?

Mr. LOVELADY. Well, we came down at 10 minutes til to wash up and get ready for it.

Mr. BALL. Did you come down the elevator?

Mr. LOVELADY. Right.

Mr. BALL. Who did you go down with?

Mr. LOVELADY. Let me see, I think it was Bonnie Ray Williams on the side I was; I believe so.

Mr. BALL. Were you having a race with the other boys?

Mr. LOVELADY. Yes, sir; sure was.

Mr. BALL. Did you see anything or hear anything of Oswald on the way down?

Mr. LOVELADY. Yes; he was on the opposite side of the elevator I was on. I heard him holler to one of the boys to stop, he wanted the elevator. They said, "No; we're going down to lunch," and closed the gate I was on and come down and got ready to watch the President come by or got ready to go to lunch, and that's the last I heard of him.

Mr. BALL. You were on the west elevator?

Mr. LOVELADY. Right.

Mr. BALL. Oswald was standing in front of the east elevator?

Mr. LOVELADY. East, on back, the elevator back.

Mr. BALL. Did you see him?

Mr. LOVELADY. No; I didn't; I just heard his voice because--where those slats are in back of the elevator.

Mr. BALL. Did you ever see him again that day?

Mr. LOVELADY. No.

Mr. BALL. What did you do after you went down and washed up; what did you do?

Mr. LOVELADY. Well, I went over and got my lunch and went upstairs and got a coke and come on back down.

Mr. BALL. Upstairs on what floor?

Mr. LOVELADY. That's on the second floor; so, I started going to the domino room where I generally went in to set down and eat and nobody was there and I happened to look on the outside and Mr. Shelley was standing outside with Miss Sarah Stanton, I believe her name is, and I said, "Well, I'll go out there and talk with them, sit down and eat my lunch out there, set on the steps," so I went out there.

Mr. BALL. You ate your lunch on the steps?

Mr. LOVELADY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Who was with you?

Mr. LOVELADY. Bill Shelley and Sarah Stanton, and right behind me----

Mr. BALL. What was that last name?

Mr. LOVELADY. Stanton.

Mr. BALL. What is the first name?

Mr. LOVELADY. Bill Shelley.

Mr. BALL. And Stanton's first name?

Mr. LOVELADY. Miss Sarah Stanton.

Mr. BALL. Did you stay on the steps?

Mr. LOVELADY. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Were you there when the President's motorcade went by?

Mr. LOVELADY. Right.

Mr. BALL. Did you hear anything?

Mr. LOVELADY. Yes, sir; sure did.

Mr. BALL. What did you hear?

Mr. LOVELADY. I thought it was firecrackers or somebody celebrating the arrival of the President. It didn't occur to me at first what had happened until this Gloria came running up to us and told us the President had been shot.

Mr. BALL. Who was this girl?

Mr. LOVELADY. Gloria Calvary.

Mr. BALL. Gloria Calvary?

Mr. LOVELADY. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Where does she work?

Mr. LOVELADY. Southwestern Publishing Co.

Mr. BALL. Where was the direction of the sound?

Mr. LOVELADY. Right there around that concrete little deal on that knoll.

Mr. BALL. That's where it sounded to you?

Mr. LOVELADY. Yes, sir; to my right. I was standing as you are going down the steps, I was standing on the right, sounded like it was in that area.

Mr. BALL. From the underpass area?

Mr. LOVELADY. Between the underpass and the building right on that knoll.

Mr. BALL. I have got a picture here, Commission Exhibit 369. Are you on that picture?

Mr. LOVELADY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Take a pen or pencil and mark an arrow where you are.

Mr. LOVELADY. Where I thought the shots are?

Mr. BALL. No; you in the picture.

Mr. LOVELADY. Oh, here (indicating).

Mr. BALL. Draw an arrow down to that; do it in the dark. You got an arrow in the dark and one in the white pointing toward you. Where were you when the picture was taken?

Mr. LOVELADY. Right there at the entrance of the building standing on the top of the step, would be here (indicating).

Mr. BALL. You were standing on which step?

Mr. LOVELADY. It would be your top level.

Mr. BALL. The top step you were standing there?

Mr. LOVELADY. Right.

Mr. BALL. Now, when Gloria came up you were standing near Mr. Shelley?

Mr. LOVELADY. Yeah.

Mr. BALL. When Gloria came up and said the President had been shot, Gloria Calvary, what did you do?

Mr. LOVELADY. Well, I asked who told her. She said he had been shot so we asked her was she for certain or just had she seen the shot hit him or--she said yes, she had been right close to it to see and she had saw the blood and knew he had been hit but didn't know how serious it was and so the crowd had started towards the railroad tracks back, you know, behind our building there and we run towards that little, old island and kind of down there in that little street. We went as far as the first tracks and everybody was hollering and crying and policemen started running out that way and we said we better get back into the building, so we went back into the west entrance on the back dock had that low ramp and went into the back dock back inside the building.

Mr. BALL. First of all, let's get you to tell us whom you left the steps with.

Mr. LOVELADY. Mr. Shelley.

Mr. BALL. Shelley and you went down how far?

Mr. LOVELADY. Well, I would say a good 75, between 75 to 100 yards to the first tracks. See how those tracks goes----

Mr. BALL. You went down the dead end on Elm?

Mr. LOVELADY. Yes.

Mr. BALL. And down to the first tracks?

Mr. LOVELADY. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Did you see anything there?

Mr. LOVELADY. No sir; well, just people running.

Mr. BALL. That's all?

Mr. LOVELADY. And hollerin.

Mr. BALL. How did you happen to go down there?

Mr. LOVELADY. I don't know, because everybody was running from that way and naturally, I guess----

Mr. BALL. They were running from that way or toward that way?

Mr. LOVELADY. Toward that way; everybody thought it was coming from that direction.

Mr. BALL. By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building?

Mr. LOVELADY. As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15, maybe 25, steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building.

Mr. BALL. How many steps?

Mr. LOVELADY. Twenty, 25.

Mr. BALL. Steps away and you looked back and saw him enter the building?

Mr. LOVELADY. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Then you came back. How long did you stay around the railroad tracks?

Mr. LOVELADY. Oh, just a minute, maybe minute and a half.

Mr. BALL. Then what did you do?

Mr. LOVELADY. Came back right through that part where Mr. Campbell, Mr. Truly, and Mr. Shelley park their cars and I came back inside the building.

Mr. BALL. And enter from the rear?

Mr. LOVELADY. Yes, sir; sure did.

Mr. BALL. You heard the shots. And how long after that was it before Gloria Calvary came up?

Mr. LOVELADY. Oh, approximately 3 minutes, I would say.

Mr. BALL. Three minutes is a long time.

Mr. LOVELADY. Yes, it's--I say approximately; I can't say because I don't have a watch; it could.

Mr. BALL. Had people started to run?

Mr. LOVELADY. Well, I couldn't say because she came up to us and we was talking to her, wasn't looking that direction at that time, but when we came off the steps--see, that entrance, you have a blind side when you go down the steps.

Mr. BALL. Right after you talked to Gloria, did you leave the steps and go toward the tracks?

Mr. LOVELADY. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Did you run or walk?

Mr. LOVELADY. Medium trotting or fast walk.

Mr. BALL. A fast walk?

Mr. LOVELADY. Yes.

Mr. BALL. How did you happen to turn around and see Truly and the policeman go into the building?

Mr. LOVELADY. Somebody hollered and I looked.

Mr. BALL. You turned around and looked?

Mr. LOVELADY. Yes.

Mr. BALL. After you ran to the railroad tracks you came back and went in the back door of the building?

Mr. LOVELADY. Right.

Mr. BALL. Did you go in through the docks, the wide open door or did you go in the ordinary small door?

Mr. LOVELADY. You know where we park our trucks--that door; we have a little door.

Mr. BALL. That is where you went in, that little door?

Mr. LOVELADY. That's right.

Mr. BALL. That would be the north end of the building?

Mr. LOVELADY. That would be the west end, wouldn't it?

Mr. BALL. Is it the one right off Houston Street?

Mr. LOVELADY. No; you are thinking about another dock.

Mr. BALL. I am?

Mr. LOVELADY. Yes; we have two.