Part 33

Mr. SPECTER. Well, did you tell everybody about the same thing you have told me here today?

Mrs. HILL. Yes, except that I didn't go into that stuff with the shots because no one ever asked me, no one ever detailed it like that, but they were interested that day in those pictures and they got them all from us.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you talk with the Secret Service men on any occasion after the events on November 22?

Mrs. HILL. No.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you ever talked to anybody else from the Federal Government?

Mrs. HILL. The FBI men.

Mr. SPECTER. On how many occasions?

Mrs. HILL. Several.

Mr. SPECTER. How many, if you remember?

Mrs. HILL. I don't recall--I was called two or three times at least after that.

Mr. SPECTER. Called on the telephone?

Mrs. HILL. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. You discussed the matter over the phone with somebody who said he was from the FBI?

Mrs. HILL. No; I had that pulled on me and I didn't want to talk until I called back down to check to see.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you talk to somebody from the FBI when you called them back?

Mrs. HILL. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Over the phone?

Mrs. HILL. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. On how many occasions?

Mrs. HILL. I think two or three times is all I had.

Mr. SPECTER. Were you ever interviewed in person by the FBI?

Mrs. HILL. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. On how many occasions?

Mrs. HILL. After that day, I believe only once.

Mr. SPECTER. And about when was that?

Mrs. HILL. Well, it was the other day after I received this letter--no; before I received this letter, and this was last Tuesday, I think, and they came in reference to what Mark Lane had told the Warren Commission.

Mr. SPECTER. And what did they ask you when they came to see you last Tuesday, that would be a week ago today or the 16th--or the 17th?

Mrs. HILL. They just had me start over with this story again and they had Mr. Lane's copy and they asked me, you know, if I had said these things and, I read it and told them that I had said it.

Mr. SPECTER. Was Mr. Lane's version accurate?

Mrs. HILL. It was accurate in that he took down what I said. It was inaccurate in that he had taken it out of context, and the questions he asked me weren't there, nor were they given. I can see how he could have made what he made out of my statements.

Mr. SPECTER. When did you talk to Mr. Lane?

Mrs. HILL. I talked to him about--approximately 4 or 6 weeks ago.

Mr. SPECTER. Where did that take place?

Mrs. HILL. At New York.

Mr. SPECTER. Did he call you on the telephone?

Mrs. HILL. That's right, and he didn't tell me he was recording this at the time.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever talk to Mark Lane in person?

Mrs. HILL. No.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever sign an affidavit for him?

Mrs. HILL. No.

Mr. SPECTER. The only contact you had with him was this one telephone conversation?

Mrs. HILL. That's right, and he said he was coming to Dallas the next week and would I talk with him, I said, I told him then--that I guessed so. I didn't know. I mean, because I didn't fully realize what he was doing in this case.

Mr. SPECTER. And what did you tell him over the telephone?

Mrs. HILL. I told him the same story I told you, with the exception that he went further into the day's activities at the police station, and at the courthouse.

Mr. SPECTER. What else did you tell him about your day's activities at the courthouse?

Mrs. HILL. Well, he asked me, you know, he just asked me a lot of questions about that, and I told him that we didn't know that we were in a pressroom. We just knew we were in a courthouse and with police. I mean, this was to us a police station.

Mr. SPECTER. Tell me all the things that you told him, in addition to those which you have already told me, that is, tell me all the things you told Mr. Lane, in addition to that you have already testified about.

Mrs. HILL. I will, but do you realize I have had to go over this so many times that I don't know who I have told which part to? I really don't.

Mr. SPECTER. Well, I'll bear that in mind, but do the best you can in telling me all the things you told Mark Lane.

Mrs. HILL. Can't you just read my statement?

Mr. SPECTER. Feel free to smoke--just relax.

Mrs. HILL. I would except, I don't have one.

Mr. SPECTER. Just relax if you can.

Mrs. HILL. All right, if I can.

Mr. SPECTER. Off the record.

Let the record show that we were taking a brief recess to get the witness a cup of coffee so that she may be more relaxed. May the record show that we have just obtained some coffee and we are proceeding.

When we broke for the coffee, I had asked you to tell me all the things you told Mark Lane other than those which you have already testified about.

Mrs. HILL. Before we go into that--I do want to have you--because I hope that by this time I am through with it, but I do want to tell you about a camera team that came out there to my house that this John Coker was with.

Mr. SPECTER. On which occasion was that?

Mrs. HILL. That is important to me and that is the reason why I digressed and got on that.

Mr. SPECTER. This occurred, you say, about 2 weeks after the assassination?

Mrs. HILL. Say--10 days.

Mr. SPECTER. What happened on that occasion?

Mrs. HILL. They came out and brought TV cameras and were going to take, and they told me they were not going to tell me the questions that they were going to ask me, that they wanted to get my reactions to their questions, and they set up rather, I would say they set up hypothetical situations like--could he have been shot from the window, if this is the kind of wound that it would have made? Or, to make this kind of a wound, he had to have been here, now which, you know--and so I told them and from what I gathered that day, they did not think I had--I had gotten the idea from them, that there was speculation or some reasonable doubt that I--that Oswald did not do all the shooting and that all these shots did not come from the window.

Mr. SPECTER. You told the newspaper and the television cameramen that?

Mrs. HILL. That's what I got from them from the questions they asked me.

Mr. SPECTER. What answers did you give them to those questions?

Mrs. HILL. Well, when they would set up a situation, I would tell them what I thought would have had to happen in that situation.

Mr. SPECTER. Well, without formulating any questions which would lead you in any way to any conclusions, let me ask you for your best recollection as to what you think occurred, as to the point where the assassin was, if you have any idea on that question?

Mrs. HILL. Well, as I said previously, to me at the time the shot came from the knoll, you know.

Mr. SPECTER. And you have testified to that because of the sound of the shots?

Mrs. HILL. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And also because you saw this man running away.

Mrs. HILL. That's right.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you think perhaps that you had the impression that that came from the knoll exclusively because you saw the man running away? And your reaction that that must have been the man who did the shooting?

Mrs. HILL. It could have been very well--it could have been.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, are there any other factors which led you to think that the shots came from the knoll, factors other than those you have already told me about?

Mrs. HILL. Except that I believe these men thought so that night.

Mr. SPECTER. Well, never mind the men, but focus just on what your reaction was at the time.

Mrs. HILL. That's what I thought. At the time I thought that there was more than one person shooting, as I said before.

Mr. SPECTER. Well, you have already told me about that and you told me about the source of the knoll, and you told me why you thought that was more than one person, and now, what I'm trying to get at is why you thought they came from the knoll--was it first because the way the shot sounded and secondly, because the man ran away, and then I asked you the second question--did you think perhaps they came from the knoll exclusively because you saw the man run away, and you said you thought that might be the case.

Mrs. HILL. Could be.

Mr. SPECTER. And then I asked you were there any other findings other than those we have already talked about, which would make you think that the shots came from the knoll, based on your own personal observations, recollections or impressions.

Mrs. HILL. Nothing that comes to mind.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, is there anything else about that television interview which you consider important?

Mrs. HILL. Except for the fact it left me very doubtful and confused.

Mr. SPECTER. Because they gave you a lot of hypothetical situations, and you didn't know which was which, if you listened to them?

Mrs. HILL. That's right--they had some very strange ideas which I have heard here and there voiced by other people.

Mr. SPECTER. What were they doing basically, asking you to comment on those various theories?

Mrs. HILL. I asked why were they coming out here, why would they come to my home, why was that important, and they said, "Something big is going to break in a little while and we want to put it on first. We want to be ready for it."

Mr. SPECTER. Did they ever put that television interview on?

Mrs. HILL. I have never seen any, but then, I never saw myself on TV either.

Mr. SPECTER. Is there anything else about that television interview which you now consider important?

Mrs. HILL. Well, I know that it has bothered me ever since it happened, and particularly since I have been questioned these other times.

Mr. SPECTER. By the FBI last week?

Mrs. HILL. Yes; and without things of comments, and speculation that I have heard, and remarks that I've gone back over, of happenings that have happened to me that day and as to the way it happened, and frankly, I would either like to say it again or something----

Mr. SPECTER. Like to say what again?

Mrs. HILL. I would like to see this telecast or hear that questioning again because there's something about it that keeps in the back of my mind----

Mr. SPECTER. But you can't put your finger on what it is?

Mrs. HILL. No.

Mr. SPECTER. But you are annoyed or bothered or perplexed with it or confused by that?

Mrs. HILL. Yes; I have been.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, have you told me everything that you have to say about that television interview?

Mrs. HILL. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, moving on to the question about Mark Lane, what did you tell him other than that which you have told me here today?

Mrs. HILL. He asked me where we were taken and I told him in the pressroom, that we didn't know it was the pressroom at the time, and that we didn't know we couldn't leave and because they kept standing across the door, and the first time we really--we were getting tired of it, I mean, we had been down there quite a while and we were getting tired of it and we wanted to leave and this is what I told him, and so some man came in and offered Mary a sum, I think--say--$10,000 or something like this for this picture.

We realized that--they said, "Don't sell the picture." He was a representative of either Post or Life, and they said, "Don't sell that picture until our representatives have contacted you or a lawyer or something." Anyway, we realized at that time we didn't have that picture, that it had been taken from us. I mean, we had let Featherstone look at it, you know, but we told no one they could reproduce it. They said, "Would you let us look at it and see if it could be reproduced?" We said, "Yes; you could look at it," we thought it was--you know, it was fuzzy and everything, but we were wanting to keep them and we suddenly realized we didn't have that picture, and that was quite a bit of money and we were getting pretty excited about it, and Mary was getting scared----

Mr. SPECTER. Did she eventually sell the picture, by the way?

Mrs. HILL. She sold the rights, the publishing rights of it, not the original picture, but they had already--AP and UP had already picked it up because Featherstone stole it.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you know what she sold those rights for?

Mrs. HILL. I think it was $600.

Mr. SPECTER. What did you tell Mark Lane besides about the picture?

Mrs. HILL. This is it.

Mr. SPECTER. Fine, go ahead.

Mrs. HILL. Anyway, when I realized we didn't have that picture and Mary was getting upset about that--by that time I had realized we were in a pressroom and that he had no right to be holding us and he had no authority and that we could get out of there, and they kept standing in front of the door, and I told him--I said, "Get out." We kept asking him for our picture, and where it was, and he said, "We'll get it back--we'll get it back. And so I jerked away and ran out of the door and as I did, there was a Secret Service man. Now, this I was told--that he was a Secret Service man, and he said, "Do you have a red raincoat?" And, I said, "Yes; it's in yonder. Let me go." I was intent on finding someone to get that picture back and I said as I walked out, "I can get someone big enough to get it back for us." He said, "Does your friend have a blue raincoat?" And I said, "Yes; she's in there." He said, "Here they are," to somebody else and they told us that they had been looking for us.

Mr. SPECTER. Who told you that?

Mrs. HILL. This man.

Mr. SPECTER. All this you told Mr. Lane?

Mrs. HILL. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Go ahead.

Mrs. HILL. And so, then they took us into the police station. Just about that time Sheriff Decker came out and the man was with us and we were telling him why we were in there, why we had been in the pressroom, you know, and why they hadn't been able to find us, because they had thought that Mary had been hit and they were looking for the two women that were standing right by the car with the camera. At that time they didn't know what we were doing down there and why we were right at the car. So, there followed questioning all afternoon long, and he asked me at one time--well, in fact he asked repeatedly if I was held and I told him, "Yes."

Mr. SPECTER. Who asked you that?

Mrs. HILL. Mark Lane.

Mr. SPECTER. If you were held?

Mrs. HILL. Yes; you know if I were held, if I had to stay there and I told him, "Yes," but I told him when we were in the pressroom it was just our own ignorance, really, that was keeping us there and letting the man intimidate us that had no authority.

Mr. SPECTER. That was a newsman as opposed to the police official?

Mrs. HILL. Yes; and I gave Mark Lane his name several times--clearly. I remember clearly that I gave him his name.

Mr. SPECTER. And what name did you give him?

Mrs. HILL. Featherstone of the Times Herald, and so after we got out of there and I talked with a man----

Mr. SPECTER. Now, you are continuing to tell me everything you told Mark Lane?

Mrs. HILL. That's right, and I talked with this man, a Secret Service man, and I said, "Am I a kook or what's wrong with me?" I said, "They keep saying three shots--three shots," and I said, "I know I heard more. I heard from four to six shots anyway."

He said, "Mrs. Hill, we were standing at the window and we heard more shots also, but we have three wounds and we have three bullets, three shots is all that we are willing to say right now."

Mr. SPECTER. Now, did that Secret Service man try to suggest to you that there were only three shots in any other way than that?

Mrs. HILL. That's all he said to me. He didn't say, "You have to say three shots"--he didn't tell me what to say.

Mr. SPECTER. He didn't try to intimidate you or coerce you in any way?

Mrs. HILL. No; that's all he said.

Mr. SPECTER. All right. Go ahead and tell me what you told Mark Lane.

Mrs. HILL. I told him--I was asked by them----

Mr. SPECTER. Do you know who that Secret Service man was, by the way?

Mrs. HILL. No; I don't. I don't know--not any name that day except Decker and the President.

Mr. SPECTER. All right, go ahead and tell me everything else you said.

Mrs. HILL. Then, he asked me--I was asked did I know that a bullet struck at my feet and I said, "No; I didn't." And he said, "What do you think that dust was?" And I said, "I didn't see any dust." And I told Mark Lane that the Times Herald did run a picture in the paper of a concrete scar where a bullet had hit right where we were standing, which is evident to anybody that had an issue of the Times Herald.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you see that concrete?

Mrs. HILL. I didn't go back down there.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you know whether or not a bullet did hit that concrete?

Mrs. HILL. As I say, I saw the picture in the newspaper.

Mr. SPECTER. Aside from seeing it in the newspaper, do you know anything about that?

Mrs. HILL. No; other than what the man said he saw out of the window of the courthouse, the Secret Service man said and it struck at my feet, other than that--I don't know.

Mr. SPECTER. What else did you tell Mark Lane?

Mrs. HILL. So, he asked me, "Did you have to stay down there or did you stay of your own accord?" And I said, "No; we had stay there." He said something--he said, "Were you threatened or something?" And I told him I wasn't threatened, but--he said, "How do you know you were held?" Or something like that, and I said, "Because I tried to leave twice. At one time I saw people I knew on the street and I was going to go down and talk to them and I went down and they came down and got me, and another time I went down when the evening edition of the paper hit the street and two men," and I told him, I did not tell him they were Secret Service men, but they were men from the sheriff's office. There were some kind of deputy or something that came down and took me back and they were not playing. They meant to take me back. They did take my arms and I knew I was going, because I just kept standing on the corner saying, "No; I don't want to go back yet. Please let me stay down here just a little while." They did make us go back in there.

Mr. SPECTER. Where were they from?

Mrs. HILL. They were from the sheriff's office, they were just deputies--they weren't FBI or Secret Service.

Mr. SPECTER. Was it after that that you gave the affidavit to the sheriff?

Mrs. HILL. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. What else did you tell Mark Lane?

Mrs. HILL. Well, I told him that my story had already been given, that they had an affidavit down there, and he said, "Were you ever at any time--" I think he said, "Were you ever at any time told not to say something or this, that, and the other," and I said, "The only thing that I was told not to say was to not mention the man running," and he said, "And why?" And I said, "Well, it was an FBI or Secret Service that told me not to, but they came in to me just right after I was taken--I was in there in the pressroom, and told me in fact--I told him it was Featherstone that told me. He said, "You know you were wrong about seeing a man running." He said, "You didn't."

Mr. SPECTER. Who told you you were wrong--Featherstone or Lane?

Mrs. HILL. Featherstone. And I told him that--I told Mr. Lane that Mr. Featherstone had told me that, and I said, "But I did," and he said, "No; don't say that any more on the air."

Mr. SPECTER. Who said, "Don't say that any more on the air?"

Mrs. HILL. Featherstone; and I made it clear to Mark Lane, because I mentioned his name several times, and he said, "He has told me not to tell anyone"----

Mr. SPECTER. You mean Featherstone?

Mrs. HILL. Yes; that the shots had come from a window up in the Depository and for me not to say that any more, that I was wrong about it, and I said "Very well," and so I just didn't say any more that I ran across the street to see the man, and that's the part, as much as I can get from when the FBI men came out and talked to me the other day, that is the part mostly that I got that was out of context, because what he gave the Commission was basically true.

Mr. SPECTER. What Mark Lane gave the Commission?

Mrs. HILL. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Except for what----

Mrs. HILL. Except he didn't have his comments in there.

Mr. SPECTER. What were his comments?

Mrs. HILL. Well, as I said, the way he would ask me things I can see why I gave the answers I did, which to me are the truth, but I can see, taken out of context, why he or the Commission, well, not how he, because he was listening to me--how the Commission could take it to mean maybe something else?

Mr. SPECTER. Did he repeat then to the Commission how the Commission could take them to mean maybe something else?

Mrs. HILL. Yes----

Mr. SPECTER. Did he repeat them to the Commission out of context--did Mark Lane repeat them out of context?

Mrs. HILL. To me they were--to me they were--it was my comments and it wasn't everything I said.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you now related all of the ways that Mark Lane took your comments out of context?

Mrs. HILL. So far as I know.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, is there anything else about your conversation with Mark Lane which you think would be helpful to the Commission to know about?

Mrs. HILL. No.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, before getting on to Mark Lane, we were talking about the times you had been interviewed by the authorities and you had told me you were interviewed a couple of times by telephone by the FBI when you called back to verify it was the FBI and about a single interview you had with the FBI a week ago today, which would have been the 17th of March?

Mrs. HILL. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, have you had any additional interviews with any Federal authorities before today, other than those which you have already told me about?

Mrs. HILL. No; not that I remember.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, for the record, Mrs. Hill, I'm going to ask you some questions about your own background--first of all I would like you to tell me how old you are, for the record?

Mrs. HILL. Thirty-three.

Mr. SPECTER. And where is your home area--Dallas or some other part of the country or what?

Mrs. HILL. Where am I from?

Mr. SPECTER. Where are you from?

Mrs. HILL. Oklahoma.

Mr. SPECTER. And what city in Oklahoma?

Mrs. HILL. Originally Wewoka and later Oklahoma City.

Mr. SPECTER. And are you married?

Mrs. HILL. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And is there any unusual status with respect to your being married at this moment?

Mrs. HILL. I am in the process of getting a divorce.

Mr. SPECTER. And how many children have you?

Mrs. HILL. I have two--a boy 12 and a girl 10.

Mr. SPECTER. And what is your educational background?

Mrs. HILL. I was graduated from Wewoka High School and Oklahoma Baptist University in Shawnee.

Mr. SPECTER. And what year did you graduate from high school?

Mrs. HILL. 1948.

Mr. SPECTER. And what year from college?

Mrs. HILL. 1954, after two babies later.

Mr. SPECTER. And is that a 4-year college?

Mrs. HILL. That's right.

Mr. SPECTER. And how are you occupied at the present time?

Mrs. HILL. I taught 7 years in Oklahoma City public schools and for the past year and a half I have been doing substitute teaching for the Dallas Board of Education.

Mr. SPECTER. And what is your maiden name?

Mrs. HILL. Lollis.

Mr. SPECTER. And what is your husband's occupation?

Mrs. HILL. He is a consultant for Science Research Associates, lately IBM.

Mr. SPECTER. And is there anything else that you would care to tell me which you think might be of aid to the Commission in its investigation?

Mrs. HILL. No.

Mr. SPECTER. Thank you very much for coming and giving your deposition.

Mrs. HILL. Am I completely through with the Commission?

Mr. SPECTER. I think this will be the end of it--we have all of the records, and to the best of my expectation--yes; but you could be called anytime. You have both the pleasure and the discomfort, but the distinction of having been an eye witness.

Mrs. HILL. Well, I know, I have always been rather--I mean, it's not something you are--you are not proud to say it, but I think it was part of history and I was glad I was there, but because I got publicity, because--I think my children will be interested to know that someday that I was in it someway.