Part 20

Miss WESTER. There were several glassine packets, small packets of hypodermic needles--well, packed in and sterilized in. There were several others-some alcohol sponges and a roll of 1-inch tape. Those things, I definitely know, were on the cart, and the sheets, of course.

Mr. SPECTER. Were there any other objects on the cart, on the stretcher cart?

Miss WESTER. Right off, I can't remember----

Mr. SPECTER. Do you recollect whether there were any gloves on the cart?

Miss WESTER. There could have been--I don't recall right off--I can't remember that.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you recall whether there were any tools on one end of the stretcher?

Miss WESTER. I know I set something down on the cart, I think it was a curved hemostat--I couldn't say for sure--I'm not sure.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, you have testified that you met Governor Connally on the stretcher when he was 50 feet from the elevator door. Is there any object at about that spot that is a landmark, so to speak, of that particular spot?

Miss WESTER. Where I met Governor Connally in the operating room?

Mr. SPECTER. Yes.

Miss WESTER. There is a clock.

Mr. SPECTER. About how far from the clock is the door to the operating room, room 5, where Governor Connally was taken?

Miss WESTER. I would say approximately 75 feet.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, what did you do with the stretcher after Governor Connally was taken off of it?

Miss WESTER. I moved the stretcher back to the center area, fairly close to the clock, it wasn't right under it, but fairly close, and an orderly, R. J. Jimison, walked up----

Mr. SPECTER. His initials are R. J.?

Miss WESTER. And he stood at the cart while I rolled the sheets up and removed the items from the cart, and from there he took the cart and proceeded to the elevator with it and the last time I saw him he was standing at the elevator with the cart waiting for him to be picked up.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you see that stretcher any more that day?

Miss WESTER. Not that I know of.

Mr. SPECTER. Will you describe in a general way what that stretcher looked like?

Miss WESTER. Well, it has four wheels and a lower shelf, a thin mattress on it, and side rails on it, on each side of the cart. It has a rubber rim at the edge of it, sort of a bumper type to the upper shelf of the cart.

Mr. SPECTER. And what is it constructed of?

Miss WESTER. Well, it's a metal--steel.

Mr. SPECTER. What was done with the mattress?

Miss WESTER. It remained on the cart. It was not moved then, only the sheets were left and rolled into a bundle. And, when the sheets were rolled into a bundle, I didn't actually lift them up.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you see Miss Jeanette Standridge at any time in connection with this particular movement of the stretcher?

Miss WESTER. No.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you see Mrs. Henrietta Ross at any time in connection with this particular movement of the stretcher?

Miss WESTER. No; I believe she walked up on my right as I was rolling the sheets up.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you see Darrell C. Tomlinson at any time in connection with this particular movement of the stretcher?

Miss WESTER. No.

Mr. SPECTER. Were you interviewed by the Secret Service about these events at some time in the past?

Miss WESTER. Yes; I was.

Mr. SPECTER. Were you interviewed by anyone else?

Miss WESTER. No.

Mr. SPECTER. And did the Secret Service interview on one occasion or more than one occasion?

Miss WESTER. Only one occasion.

Mr. SPECTER. And immediately prior to your being sworn in and starting to take this deposition, did I have a very brief conversation with you about the purpose of this proceeding?

Miss WESTER. Yes; you did.

Mr. SPECTER. And about the facts to which you have testified since this formal deposition started?

Miss WESTER. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And at that did you tell me all the facts previously testified to here to this effect?

Miss WESTER. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Did the sheet on which the Governor was lying have anything on it?

Miss WESTER. It had some blood.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you made any notes or any written record of that sort concerning the matters about which you have testified here today?

Miss WESTER. No; I haven't.

Mr. SPECTER. That concludes the deposition, and I thank you very much for appearing here.

Miss WESTER. Fine.

TESTIMONY OF MRS. HENRIETTA M. ROSS

The testimony of Mrs. Henrietta M. Ross was taken at 6:50 p.m., on March 25, 1964, at Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Arlen Specter, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. SPECTER. May the record show that the oath has been administered to Mrs. Henrietta Ross who is appearing here in response to a letter request to testify as part of the inquiry of the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy, which involves the treatment of President Kennedy and Governor Connally at Parkland Hospital.

Mrs. Ross has been asked to appear and testify concerning her knowledge about the stretcher cart on which Governor Connally was transported while in the hospital.

Mr. SPECTER. With that preliminary statement, I'll ask you, Mrs. Ross, to state your full name?

Mrs. ROSS. Mrs. Henrietta Magnolia Ross.

Mr. SPECTER. And where are you employed?

Mrs. ROSS. Parkland Hospital.

Mr. SPECTER. In what capacity?

Mrs. ROSS. Operating room technician.

Mr. SPECTER. And what were your duties on November 22, 1963?

Mrs. ROSS. Stand in the hall and guard the hall and not let anyone pass by I did not know.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to see Governor Connally?

Mrs. ROSS. Yes; as he came down the hall on the cart.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you see him as he left the elevator?

Mrs. ROSS. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. About what time was that?

Mrs. ROSS. About--it should have been after 1 o'clock because I was supposed to go to a class that day and I couldn't go.

Mr. SPECTER. Who was with him at the time, if anyone?

Mrs. ROSS. There were doctors all around in the corridor and I don't know exactly who--I only remember one person and that was Dr. Gustafason, because he gave me his coat to hang up as he was passing.

Mr. SPECTER. Was Miss Jane Wester there?

Mrs. ROSS. She was up there; yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And what did you see them do with the Governor, if anything?

Mrs. ROSS. They pushed him down in front of room 5 and onto the operating table and put him on it.

Mr. SPECTER. What were they pushing him on?

Mrs. ROSS. On a stretcher from the emergency room.

Mr. SPECTER. Will you describe the stretcher for me, please, starting with what was it made of?

Mrs. ROSS. It has four legs, four wheels and has a little rubber sheet on it. I mean, a rubber mattress, and the length of the normal body is the length of the cart.

Mr. SPECTER. Is it made of metal?

Mrs. ROSS. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And what was done with the stretcher cart after they rolled Governor Connally off of it?

Mrs. ROSS. It was pushed back up toward room 3.

Mr. SPECTER. Is that toward the elevator?

Mrs. ROSS. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And by whom was it pushed?

Mrs. ROSS. Jimison.

Mr. SPECTER. R. J. Jimison?

Mrs. ROSS. I don't know Jimison's initials, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. He's one of the orderlies there?

Mrs. ROSS. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And where did you last see the stretcher?

Mrs. ROSS. In front of room 3.

Mr. SPECTER. Did Jimison have it in his control at that time?

Mrs. ROSS. The last time I looked he was pushing it; yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you talked to the Secret Service about this?

Mrs. ROSS. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. On how many occasions?

Mrs. ROSS. One time.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you talk to anyone else from the Federal Government about this matter?

Mrs. ROSS. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you have anything to add which you think might be helpful to the Commission?

Mrs. ROSS. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Thank you very much for appearing.

Mrs. ROSS. Thank you.

TESTIMONY OF R. J. JIMISON

The testimony of R. J. Jimison was taken at 2:35 p.m., on March 21, 1964, at Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas. Tex., by Mr. Arlen Specter, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. SPECTER. Would you stand up, please, Mr. Jimison, and raise your right hand.

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you shall give before this Commission in the deposition proceedings will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. JIMISON. I do.

Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Jimison, have you received a letter of notification from the President's Commission advising you that you would be contacted to have your deposition taken?

Mr. JIMISON. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And did that letter contain in it a copy of the Executive order creating the Commission, a copy of the joint congressional resolution about the Commission, and the procedures for taking depositions by the Commission?

Mr. JIMISON. I believe it did.

Mr. SPECTER. Are you willing to have your deposition taken today, sir; do you have any objection to my asking you some questions and having them reported by the court reporter here?

Mr. JIMISON. No; I do not.

Mr. SPECTER. By whom are you employed, Mr. Jimison?

Mr. JIMISON. I would just say the hospital--County Hospital.

Mr. SPECTER. Parkland Memorial Hospital?

Mr. JIMISON. Yes; Parkland Memorial Hospital.

Mr. SPECTER. What kind of work do you do here?

Mr. JIMISON. Orderly.

Mr. SPECTER. Let the record show that you have a badge on which says, "R. J. Jimison".

Mr. JIMISON. Right.

Mr. SPECTER. "Orderly." And is that your full name?

Mr. JIMISON. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And what does the "R" stand for?

Mr. JIMISON. That's just an initial name.

Mr. SPECTER. And how about the "J"?

Mr. JIMISON. Same.

Mr. SPECTER. So, people call you "R. J."?

Mr. JIMISON. Right.

Mr. SPECTER. What were your duties back on November 22, 1963, Mr. Jimison?

Mr. JIMISON. My duties was the same as usual; that is, to transport patients to and fro, reclean rooms, betwixt each case.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to see President Kennedy on that day?

Mr. JIMISON. I did not.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to see Governor Connally on that day?

Mr. JIMISON. I did.

Mr. SPECTER. What were the circumstances under which you saw Governor Connally?

Mr. JIMISON. Well, I would say it wasn't such a pleasant circumstance, but he was lying on a carriage, a hospital carriage, and I was--I assisted in helping move him from the carriage to the operating table.

Mr. SPECTER. Where was he when you first saw him?

Mr. JIMISON. He was on the second floor in the operating room suite, near room 4, where his operation was performed.

Mr. SPECTER. Was he taken to room 4 or room 5?

Mr. JIMISON. He was taken in room--I thought it was room 4, but maybe it could have been room 5, but I taken it to be room 4, because like I told you, I helped lift him off of the table, but usually we help put them in the room--at that time there was so many doctors that I didn't.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you see Governor Connally from the time he came off of the elevator?

Mr. JIMISON. No.

Mr. SPECTER. What floor were you on when you first saw him?

Mr. JIMISON. I was on two.

Mr. SPECTER. How far was he from the elevator when you first saw him?

Mr. JIMISON. I guess he must have been about 20 feet.

Mr. SPECTER. And how far was it from the elevator to the place where you were?

Mr. JIMISON. About how many feet? About 20 or 30 feet.

Mr. SPECTER. Was he near the big clock when you first saw him, the clock that is overhead in the center there?

Mr. JIMISON. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And were there doctors around him at that time?

Mr. JIMISON. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And did you help push the stretcher from that point to----

Mr. JIMISON. (interrupting) No; I followed behind him to room 4 and I helped them take him off.

Mr. SPECTER. You helped them take Governor Connally and put him on the operating table?

Mr. JIMISON. I did.

Mr. SPECTER. And what then was done with the stretcher that he was on?

Mr. JIMISON. Well, the stretcher at that time was moved back from the table, of course, because they had to make room for the doctors to get up close to the table, which was back just a'ways and when I got free--whether it was Miss Wester or Mrs. Ross there--they pushed it back a little further, but they didn't get quite to the elevator with it; I came along and pushed it onto the elevator myself and loaded it on and pushed the door closed.

Mr. SPECTER. What was on the stretcher at that time?

Mr. JIMISON. I noticed nothing more than a little flat mattress and two sheets as usual.

Mr. SPECTER. And what was the position of the sheets?

Mr. JIMISON. Of course, them sheets was, of course, as usual, flat out on the bed.

Mr. SPECTER. Had they been rolled up?

Mr. JIMISON. More or less, not rolled, which, yes, usually they is, the mattress and sheets are all just throwed, one of them about halfway, it would be just throwed about halfway.

Mr. SPECTER. Were the sheets flat or just turned over?

Mr. JIMISON. Well, just turned over.

Mr. SPECTER. Were they crumpled up in any way?

Mr. JIMISON. Well, there was a possibility it was strictly--a tragic day.

Mr. SPECTER. It was what?

Mr. JIMISON. It was a tragic day.

Mr. SPECTER. Right, and everybody was a little shook up on account of it?

Mr. JIMISON. We didn't look too close.

Mr. SPECTER. Was there anything else on the stretcher?

Mr. JIMISON. I never noticed anything else at all.

Mr. SPECTER. Could there have been some empty packets of hypodermic needles or an alcohol sponge?

Mr. JIMISON. There could have been.

Mr. SPECTER. Or a 1-inch roll of tape?

Mr. JIMISON. There could have been something--small stuff, but nothing large like bundles or anything like that.

Mr. SPECTER. What did you do with the stretcher then, you said?

Mr. JIMISON. Pushed it on the rear elevator, which goes downstairs.

Mr. SPECTER. Is there any other elevator which goes downstairs to the emergency area?

Mr. JIMISON. Not close in the emergency area--that's the only one.

Mr. SPECTER. What was the purpose for your putting it on that elevator?

Mr. JIMISON. It goes back to emergency because it can be cleaned up there and remade and put in use again.

Mr. SPECTER. Is it customarily your job to put it back on the elevator?

Mr. JIMISON. Yes; it is.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever take it down and put it in order yourself?

Mr. JIMISON. No, sir; we never carry it down ourselves. The fact is--the purpose is--we have enough to do up there, and we have men up there to take care of that.

Mr. SPECTER. Somebody else is supposed to take the elevator up there? Is that right?

Mr. JIMISON. One of them--we put it on the elevator, then it becomes the responsibility of the emergency room.

Mr. SPECTER. Was there any other stretcher placed on that elevator later that day?

Mr. JIMISON. Not during my shift.

Mr. SPECTER. Are you the only man who would put the stretcher on the elevator if there were one?

Mr. JIMISON. No, I is not, but might near--I could might near see of anybody--from where the elevator sits from where the halls were--I could might near see all of the stretchers put on there.

Mr. SPECTER. If a stretcher was put on there it would have to be in your presence?

Mr. JIMISON. I would have had to be hid where I wouldn't be able to see it.

Mr. SPECTER. What time did you put the stretcher from Governor Connally on the elevator?

Mr. JIMISON. I'm not too sure I know of the time. I really don't know exactly the time.

Mr. SPECTER. Well, about how long after he was taken into the operating room, did you?

Mr. JIMISON. It was lesser than 10 minutes before or after.

Mr. SPECTER. What time did you get off that day?

Mr. JIMISON. 3:30.

Mr. SPECTER. And you say there was no other stretcher placed on that elevator from the time you put Governor Connally's stretcher on until the end of the day?

Mr. JIMISON. Until the end of my shift. You see, that's the emergency--from the emergency that we had from that time that he was brought up until I was relieved from duty that afternoon.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you notice any bullets on the stretcher?

Mr. JIMISON. I never noticed any at all.

Mr. SPECTER. Did I sit down and talk with you for a few minutes before the court reporter came in to take this all down here today?

Mr. JIMISON. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And have I asked you questions and have you given me answers just like in our short discussion before this deposition started?

Mr. JIMISON. (No response.)

Mr. SPECTER. Did you and I talk about the same things we have been talking about since the court reporter came in?

Mr. JIMISON. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Have you ever been talked to by any other person from the Federal Government?

Mr. JIMISON. Yes, I have.

Mr. SPECTER. And who was that?

Mr. JIMISON. I don't remember his name, but shortly after that happened--I don't know, as I say, it was the Federal Government.

Mr. SPECTER. What branch was he from?

Mr. JIMISON. I thought he was from the Secret Service.

Mr. SPECTER. How many times did you talk to somebody from the Secret Service?

Mr. JIMISON. Well, I talked to him once; he just talked to me once.

Mr. SPECTER. And what about?

Mr. JIMISON. The same thing.

Mr. SPECTER. And did you ever talk to anybody else about this fact?

Mr. JIMISON. No.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you have anything to add, that you think might be helpful to us?

Mr. JIMISON. Well, no, because the fact is--because that's pretty well covered--just, I actually want to give facts about something I know something about, and during the time I know something about, and what actually happened from the time I got off--I couldn't tell you, but I do know there wasn't no carriage from the time that carriage was picked up until I got off from duty.

This ain't actually--not in it, but due to this--this is--what I'm fixing to say is off of the book--I couldn't see after President Kennedy because I didn't--I never did get up to the floor--so I didn't see him. I am glad if was any kind of help, Mr. Specter.

Mr. SPECTER. You have been, Mr. Jimison, and we appreciate your coming in and helping us a lot.

Mr. JIMISON. Same back to you.

Mr. SPECTER. Thank you.

TESTIMONY OF DARRELL C. TOMLINSON

The testimony of Darrell C. Tomlinson was taken on March 20, 1964, at Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Arlen Specter, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Tomlinson, this is Miss Oliver, and she is the court reporter. Will you stand up and hold up your right hand and take the oath, please?

Do you solemnly swear that in the taking of your deposition in these proceedings, you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. TOMLINSON. I do.

Mr. SPECTER. Would you state your full name, for the record?

Mr. TOMLINSON. Darrell Carlisle Tomlinson.

Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Tomlinson, the purpose of this deposition proceeding is to take your deposition in connection with an inquiry made by the President's Commission in connection with the Assassination of President Kennedy to determine from you all the facts, if any, which you know concerning the events surrounding the assassination of President Kennedy and any treatment which was given at Parkland Memorial Hospital to either President Kennedy or Governor Connally, or anything that happened to any physical objects connected with either one of those men.

First of all, did you receive a letter advising you that the Commission was interested in having one of its staff lawyers take your deposition concerning this matter?

Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And did that letter include in it a copy of the Executive order creating the Commission?

Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And a copy of the congressional resolution concerning the creation of the President's Commission?

Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And a copy of the resolution governing questioning of witnesses by members of the Commission's staff?

Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And are you willing today for me to ask you some questions about what you observed or know about this matter?

Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And it is satisfactory with you to proceed today rather than to have 3 days from the time you got the letter, which was yesterday?

Mr. TOMLINSON. It's immaterial.

Mr. SPECTER. It's immaterial to you?

Mr. TOMLINSON. It's immaterial--it's at your convenience.

Mr. SPECTER. That's fine. We appreciate that, Mr. Tomlinson.

The reason is, that you have the right to a 3-day notice, but if it doesn't matter to you, then we would like to go ahead and take your information today.

Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. We call that a waiver under the law, if it is all right with you for us to talk with you today, then I want to go ahead and do that; is that all right?

Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Well, where are you employed, Mr. Tomlinson?

Mr. TOMLINSON. Parkland Hospital.

Mr. SPECTER. And what is your capacity?

Mr. TOMLINSON. I am classed as the senior engineer.

Mr. SPECTER. And what duties are involved in general?

Mr. TOMLINSON. I'm in charge of the powerplant here at the hospital, which takes care of the heating and air-conditioning services for the building.

Mr. SPECTER. Will you describe the general physical layout relating to the emergency area and how you get from the emergency area, say, to the second floor emergency operating rooms of Parkland Memorial Hospital?

Mr. TOMLINSON. You mean just the general lay?

Mr. SPECTER. Yes, sir; please.

Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, we have one elevator that goes from the basement to the third floor, that's what we call the emergency elevator. It's in the south section of the hospital and that would be your most direct route to go from the ground floor, which emergency is on, to the operating rooms on two.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, did you have anything to do with that elevator on November 22, sometime around the noon hour?

Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And what did you have to do with that elevator?

Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, we received a call in the engineer's office, the chief engineer's office, and he requested someone to operate the elevator.

Mr. SPECTER. Was there any problem with the elevator with respect to a mechanical difficulty of any sort?

Mr. TOMLINSON. No, sir; it was an ordinary type elevator, and if it isn't keyed off it will stop every time somebody pushes a button, and they preferred it to go only to the second floor and to the ground floor unless otherwise instructed by the administrator.

Mr. SPECTER. So, what were you to do with this elevator?

Mr. TOMLINSON. Key it off the ground, between ground and second floor.

Mr. SPECTER. So that you would operate it in that way?

Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes; make a manual operation out of it.

Mr. SPECTER. When you came upon that elevator, what time was it, to the best of your recollection?

Mr. TOMLINSON. It was around 1 o'clock.

Mr. SPECTER. Was there anything on the elevator at that time?

Mr. TOMLINSON. There was one stretcher.

Mr. SPECTER. And describe the appearance of that stretcher, if you will, please.

Mr. TOMLINSON. I believe that stretcher had sheets on it and had a white covering on the pad.

Mr. SPECTER. What did you say about the covering on the pad, excuse me?

Mr. TOMLINSON. I believe it was a white sheet that was on the pad.

Mr. SPECTER. And was there anything else on that?

Mr. TOMLINSON. I don't believe there was on that one, I'm not sure, but I don't believe there was.

Mr. SPECTER. What, if anything, did you do with that stretcher?

Mr. TOMLINSON. I took it off of the elevator and put it over against the south wall.

Mr. SPECTER. On what floor?

Mr. TOMLINSON. The ground floor.

Mr. SPECTER. Was there any other stretcher in that area at that time?

Mr. TOMLINSON. There was a stretcher about 2 feet from the wall already there.

(Indicating on drawing to which the witness referred.)

Mr. SPECTER. Now, you have just pointed to a drawing which you have made of this situation, have you not, while we were talking a few minutes before the court reporter started to take down your testimony?