Part 8

Mr. LATONA. Well, in that manner there is because--well no, I guess not. It is just as logical to assume that a person will leave a palmprint as a fingerprint. It depends upon primarily the way he handles it. Objects of this type being so large you can probably expect to get a palmprint.

Mr. DULLES. And what he is handling?

Mr. LATONA. That is right. On the other hand, if the object is small there is probably no reason for the palm to touch it. For example, in a rearview mirror; ordinarily on a rearview mirror of these stolen cars we process you get mostly fingerprints.

On the other hand if you get back into the trunk, the chances of something of a large nature, a stolen wheel, or something of that type, you will get finger and palm prints. Cartons like this, where you have to use both hands to pick it up because of its weight, the probability is that you will get a palmprint as well as a fingerprint.

Mr. EISENBERG. Would the same thing be true of a heavy rifle?

Mr. LATONA. Sure, very definitely.

Mr. EISENBERG. And if the bag contained a heavy object inside?

Mr. LATONA. That is right, it would take more than just the finger area of the hand to hold on to it.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, did you prepare at my request a series of photographs for transmission by me to the New York City Police Department--photographs of finger and palm prints found on some of the evidence we have been looking at?

Mr. LATONA. I furnished you photographs of all of the remaining unidentified latent prints from these cartons.

Mr. EISENBERG. And also did you furnish me a photograph--just of the remaining unidentified prints?

Mr. LATONA. No; including the ones which I identified.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you also furnish me with a photograph of the two prints you identified--which parenthetically were the only two identifiable prints--on the brown wrapping paper bag?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Which is Exhibit 142. And of the lift from the weapon 139?

Mr. LATONA. Yes; I did.

Mr. EISENBERG. And you also furnished me with photographs of the finger and palmprints of Lee Harvey Oswald----

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. As transmitted to you by the Dallas office of the FBI?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you identify these as the photographs you furnished to me?

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. EISENBERG. Have you identified the envelope marked "two photos Box D"?

Mr. LATONA. Yes; I have.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may I have that admitted as 655?

Mr. DULLES. Yes.

(Commission Exhibit No. 655 was marked and received in evidence.)

Mr. DULLES. I think there ought to be some cross-identification inside the envelope. Because obviously if you take that envelope and put anything in it, we ought to have the others identified properly.

Mr. EISENBERG. There are two photographs within this. Let the record show there are two photographs within this envelope, marked "7" and "13," and I believe these are the only photographs so marked. Each photograph is marked with an individual number, so these are the only two photographs in the entire set marked "7" and "13."

Mr. DULLES. Excellent.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now I have an envelope marked "10 photos Box A." Have you identified these photographs Mr. Latona?

Mr. LATONA. Yes; I have.

Mr. EISENBERG. May I have these photographs admitted as group 656?

Mr. DULLES. It shall be.

(Commission Exhibit No. 656 was marked and received in evidence.)

Mr. DULLES. How many enclosures in that?

Mr. EISENBERG. There are 10 enclosures and numbered as follows: 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 34, 35.

Mr. DULLES. There is no 33?

Mr. EISENBERG. No, sir.

Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted as Commission Exhibit----

Mr. EISENBERG. 656.

Mr. DULLES. That is 656 with the enclosures as noted and identified.

Mr. EISENBERG. I have here photographs--an envelope--labeled "Photographs, Fingerprints, and Palmprints, Lee Harvey Oswald." These are accurate reproductions?

Mr. LATONA. They are.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, with your permission I will later put subnumbers on these.

Mr. DULLES. Seven numbers with seven enclosures?

Mr. EISENBERG. No, sir; three enclosures.

Mr. DULLES. With three enclosures?

Mr. EISENBERG. And I will number the 10-print card--first may I have the envelope with the photographs admitted as 657?

Mr. DULLES. The envelope shall be admitted with----

Mr. EISENBERG. I will subnumber the cards with your permission at a later time.

Mr. DULLES. How many enclosures in it, three?

Mr. EISENBERG. Three. I will subnumber the 10-print card 657-A, the right palm 657-B, and left palm 657-C.

Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted.

(Commission Exhibits Nos. 657-A, 657-B, and 657-C were marked, and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. I have an envelope with photos marked "one photo of lift 'underside of gun barrel.'" Is this a photograph which you provided me?

Mr. LATONA. It is.

Mr. EISENBERG. May I have this admitted as 658, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. DULLES. 658 with how many enclosures?

Mr. EISENBERG. Just one.

Mr. DULLES. Just one enclosure.

(Commission Exhibit No. 658 was marked, and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, an envelope marked "two photos brown bag (wrapping paper)."

This is the two photos, Mr. Latona, which you gave to me?

Mr. LATONA. It is.

Mr. EISENBERG. May I have that admitted as 659, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted as 659 with one enclosure in the envelope. Is it one or two?

Mr. EISENBERG. There are two enclosures.

Mr. DULLES. With two in the envelope.

Mr. EISENBERG. One has printing on it and with your permission I will mark that "659-A," and the other has no printing and I will mark it "659-B."

Mr. DULLES. It will be so admitted.

(Commission Exhibits Nos. 659-A and 659-B were marked, and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. Now an envelope marked "eight photos Box B." This is, Mr. Latona, the photographs you provided me?

Mr. LATONA. It is.

Mr. EISENBERG. May I have this admitted as Exhibit 660, Mr. Chairman, collectively?

Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted as Commission Exhibit No. 660 with----

Mr. EISENBERG. With eight enclosures----

Mr. DULLES. Eight enclosures.

Mr. EISENBERG. Marked "15"--the next one has 17 scratched out and also 18 appearing on it--19 for the third enclosure, 20, 21, 22, 23, and 24.

Mr. DULLES. With the numbers as indicated in the record.

(Commission Exhibit No. 660 was marked, and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. And finally an envelope of the same size, marked "three photos, Box C." Mr. Latona, these are the photos you gave me?

Mr. LATONA. Yes; they are.

Mr. EISENBERG. May I have these admitted as 661, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. DULLES. It will be admitted as Exhibit 661, with how many enclosures?

Mr. EISENBERG. There are three enclosures.

Mr. DULLES. And the three enclosures; are they identified in any way?

Mr. EISENBERG. Yes, sir; they are subnumbered 10, 11 and 12.

Mr. DULLES. With the subnumbers 10, 11 and 12.

(Commission Exhibit No. 661 was marked, and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. Are all these photographs accurate reproductions of the prints appearing on the objects whose name is on the front of the envelope in which the photographs are stored?

Mr. LATONA. They are.

Mr. EISENBERG. They were taken by you or under your supervision?

Mr. LATONA. They were.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you identify by number, Mr. Latona, the photographs of box A which contain prints of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. LATONA. I will have to do it in a negative fashion and tell you that it is not 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, or 35.

Mr. EISENBERG. Then it would be No. 25 which is in that sequence?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. And did you mention 34?

Mr. LATONA. I did not.

Mr. EISENBERG. So 34 would also be an identified print in that sequence?

Mr. LATONA. That is right.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you print anything on the back of these photographs, Mr. Latona?

Mr. LATONA. At the time I gave you the photographs I marked nothing on them.

Mr. EISENBERG. So that any printing here would have been put on subsequent to the time you prepared them?

Mr. LATONA. That is correct.

Mr. EISENBERG. Referring specifically to a photograph I take at random, which is No. 35, is this your handwriting?

Mr. LATONA. It is not.

Mr. EISENBERG. None of the printing appearing on the back of that photograph?

Mr. LATONA. It is not.

Mr. EISENBERG. Let the record state that, as will be dealt with later, this printing was put on by Mr. Mandella of the New York Police Department. Now in the case of box D, of which there are two photographs, 7 and 13, could you state which was the photograph of Oswald's print?

Mr. LATONA. Thirteen.

Mr. EISENBERG. Just to reiterate, in no case did you put writing on the back of these photographs?

Mr. LATONA. I did not.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, did anyone else in the FBI examine the objects which you have been discussing today----

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. To determine whether the fingerprints of Lee Harvey Oswald appeared on them?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. What was that person's name?

Mr. LATONA. His name is Ronald G. Wittmus.

Mr. EISENBERG. Was his examination conducted independently of yours?

Mr. LATONA. It was.

Mr. EISENBERG. Who conducted the examination first?

Mr. LATONA. In the case of the wrapping paper, I did. In the case of the boxes I believe he did.

Mr. EISENBERG. And the rifle?

Mr. LATONA. I conducted the examination of the rifle.

Mr. EISENBERG. The lift from the rifle?

Mr. LATONA. Yes; directly.

Mr. EISENBERG. And the----

Mr. LATONA. Brown wrapping paper.

Mr. EISENBERG. In any case when you conducted your examination first did you tell Wittmus of your conclusions?

Mr. LATONA. I did not.

Mr. EISENBERG. When Mr. Wittmus conducted his examination first did he tell you of his conclusions?

Mr. LATONA. No.

Mr. EISENBERG. Were his conclusions the same as yours?

Mr. LATONA. Ultimately, yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. When you say, "ultimately"?

Mr. LATONA. When the whole thing was completed.

Mr. DULLES. There was no difference of views between you at any stage?

Mr. LATONA. No, sir.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did anyone who examined these various objects--as to which you have testified--in the FBI laboratory come to a conclusion different from the one you did?

Mr. LATONA. They did not.

Mr. EISENBERG. Were there any identifications of fingerprints as being Lee Harvey Oswald's in addition to the ones which you have given us?

Mr. LATONA. There were a number of identifications effected with latent prints developed on personal effects.

Mr. EISENBERG. No, sir; on the material you have testified as to today.

Mr. LATONA. No; there were no others.

Mr. EISENBERG. Were any prints found--were the three fragmentary prints found on the rifle, which were not sufficient for purposes of identification, in any way inconsistent with the prints of Oswald which you found?

Mr. LATONA. Very definitely, no. I might point out that actually what was visible was consistent, in the sense that even though there were no ridge formations available for purposes of making a positive conclusion, the indications were that the pattern types were there, were consistent with the pattern types which were on the hands of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. DULLES. As far as you know the conclusions of the Texas police authorities who examined these objects, were your conclusions the same as theirs, or was there any differences between you on this subject?

Mr. LATONA. Frankly, I don't know what there conclusion was.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.

Mr. DULLES. Have you any questions, Mr. Murray?

Mr. MURRAY. I have not.

Mr. DULLES. I have no further questions. Thank you very much indeed, Mr. Latona. You have been very helpful. I have learned a great deal myself.

Mr. LATONA. Thank you very much.

TESTIMONY OF ARTHUR MANDELLA, ACCOMPANIED BY LT. JOSEPH A. MOONEY, NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT, BUREAU OF CRIMINAL IDENTIFICATION

Mr. DULLES. Mr. Mandella, will you raise your right hand.

Do you swear that the testimony you give before this Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. MANDELLA. I do.

Mr. DULLES. Thank you.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Mandella, could you give us your full name and position?

Mr. MANDELLA. Arthur Mandella. I am a detective on the New York Police Department and I work at the bureau of criminal identification in that department.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you briefly outline your qualifications as a fingerprint identification expert, Mr. Mandella?

Mr. MANDELLA. In 1945 to 1948 I was a fingerprint technician in the U.S. Navy. My principal duties were the classification and filing of fingerprints, the developing and photographing of latent fingerprints found at crime scenes, the comparison of latent fingerprints with suspects, and the searching of fingerprint files in general.

From 1948 to 1953 I was employed by the U.S. Government as a criminal investigator. However, my principal duties were the lifting and developing and identification of latent fingerprints, also the preparation of fingerprint exhibits for court presentation. From 1955 to the present I have been employed by the New York Police Department and assigned to the bureau of criminal identification as a fingerprint technician and performing the same duties that I just outlined. During these past 17 years I have been examining not only fingerprints but palmprints and infant footprints as well.

I graduated from the following fingerprint schools: in 1945, the U.S. Naval Air Station; in 1948 I graduated from the Institute of Applied Sciences, which is a fingerprint school, fingerprint and identification school; in 1955 I graduated from the New York Police Fingerprint School at the police academy; and in 1958 I attended an advanced latent fingerprint course conducted by the FBI at the New York Police Academy.

I am a fingerprint instructor for the New York Police Department Bureau of Criminal Identification and lecture at various hospitals relative to the proper techniques involved in footprinting the newborn.

I am a qualified fingerprint expert and have testified in New York State and Federal courts, including court-martials, relative to all phases of fingerprints, palmprints, and footprints.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you venture a guess as to how many identifications you have been called upon to make in the course of your work?

Mr. MANDELLA. General identifications, I suppose, it runs into many thousands. It is hard to pick a number. But it is certainly well into the thousands of examinations.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may this witness be permitted to testify as an expert witness on the subject of fingerprints?

Mr. DULLES. Yes; he may.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Mandella, did you at my request examine certain photographs of latent prints and compare them with photographs of inked or known prints to determine whether there were identities between the known and latent prints?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; I did.

Mr. EISENBERG. I hand you Commission Exhibits 656, 658, 659, 655, 657, 661, and 660. Could you briefly look through these and determine whether these are the photographs which you examined? As you finish an item, could you take a look at the Commission number and verify that you looked at the photographs in that Commission envelope?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; I have examined the photographs contained in Commission Exhibit No. 656.

Mr. DULLES. I wonder if you would just state the number, in each case, in each envelope?

Mr. MANDELLA. In Commission Exhibit 656 there are 10 photos, 10 photographs. And I have also examined Commission Exhibit No. 658, which is one photograph. I also examined Commission Exhibit No. 659, which is two photographs. I have also examined Commission Exhibit No. 655, which is two photographs. I have examined Commission Exhibit No. 661, which contains three photographs. I have examined Commission Exhibit No. 660, which contains eight photographs. I have also examined Commission Exhibit No. 657, which contains three photographs.

Mr. EISENBERG. 657 contains photographs of inked prints, is that correct?

Mr. MANDELLA. That is correct.

Mr. EISENBERG. The standard 10-finger chart and a right and left palmprint?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Which you have been informed by me and you see on the writing on these charts are the prints of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. MANDELLA. That is correct.

Mr. EISENBERG. Do you have any other knowledge that these are the prints of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. MANDELLA. No; none whatsoever.

Mr. EISENBERG. And the remaining prints are photographs of what you would call latent prints?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; they are.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you make markings on the backs of these prints, Mr. Mandella?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; on quite a few of them I did. However, not all of them.

Mr. EISENBERG. And you made those markings on the basis of--in your own hand printing?

Mr. MANDELLA. My own hand printing, for certain observations I wanted recorded.

Mr. DULLES. What is the nature of the marking?

Mr. EISENBERG. Let's take a sample. I will pull one out at random from Commission Exhibit 660. The topmost card says "Box B," which corresponds to the label or the envelope 660--and that is No. 17.

Mr. DULLES. Will you show those to the witness and see if he identifies his own writing?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; I have made these notations. Yes; I do recognize these.

Mr. EISENBERG. The next one says "Box B" and "Negative--same as box 'D' No. 7."

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. You have seen these as you flipped through to identify that these are the same photographs?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Let the record show that these photographs are photographs of latent prints taken by or under the supervision of Mr. Sebastian Latona, and he has just testified that these photographs were taken of objects which were identified earlier in Commission proceedings. Mr. Latona transmitted these photographs to me directly, and I in turn transmitted them to Mr. Mandella and Mr. Mooney, who is also present in this hearing room.

Mr. Mandella, do you know what total number of identifiable latent prints were contained in these exhibits that you just identified--exclusive of 657, which contained the inked or known finger and palm prints?

Mr. MANDELLA. No; but I have this outline here.

Mr. EISENBERG. Just approximately would you say how many identifiable prints there were?

Mr. MANDELLA. Thirty.

Mr. EISENBERG. Some 30 odd prints?

Mr. MANDELLA. Some 30.

Mr. EISENBERG. And did you identify certain of those prints as being the finger or palm prints of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; I did.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you tell us which of those prints you so identified?

Mr. MANDELLA. There was a photograph, a photograph of the underside of the gun barrel, Commission Exhibit No.----

Mr. EISENBERG. That is Commission Exhibit No. 658, and I will hand you that photograph now. You are referring to this photograph?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. And can you read the writing on the back of that?

Mr. MANDELLA. "Right palm Oswald underside gun barrel."

Mr. EISENBERG. Is that in your handwriting?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; it is in my handwriting.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you determine what portion of the right palm that was, Mr. Mandella?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; it is the right side of the right palm, this area right here.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is the ulnar portion?

Mr. MANDELLA. Pardon?

Mr. EISENBERG. Is that sometimes called the ulnar portion?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; the ulnar side, or the small-bone side; yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you make any other identifications?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; I did.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you give the next one, please?

Mr. MANDELLA. The photo marked "brown bag wrapping paper" Exhibit No.----

Mr. EISENBERG. That is Exhibit 659, and that exhibit contains two photographs which I now hand you, which are marked 659-A and 659-B?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. And did you identify the prints in those photographs?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; on photograph No. 1----

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you refer to the print on the back, 659-A or B?

Mr. MANDELLA. On 659-B, as I called it, photo 1, is the No. 7 finger which is the left index finger of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. EISENBERG. And do you have a note on the back of that picture?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; I do.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you read us that?

Mr. MANDELLA. "Left index, Oswald brown bag wrapping paper."

Mr. EISENBERG. And that is in your handwriting?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; it is.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you say what portion of the left index finger of Lee Harvey Oswald that is?

Mr. MANDELLA. It is the bulb of the finger, a little to the right.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is, by bulb you mean the central portion of the distal phalanx?

Mr. MANDELLA. The central portion to the right.

Mr. EISENBERG. Of the distal phalanx?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; the flesh joint; yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. And 659-A?

Mr. MANDELLA. Commission Exhibit No. 659, as I call it, photo No. 2, is a palmprint and I identified this as the right side of the right palm of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. EISENBERG. The right side would again be the ulnar?

Mr. MANDELLA. It would be the ulnar side, yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. The little finger side?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. That also has writing on the back of it, does it?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; it does.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you read that to us?

Mr. MANDELLA. "Right palm, Oswald brown bag wrapping paper."

Mr. EISENBERG. And that is in your own handwriting?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; it is.

Mr. EISENBERG. Was there any handwriting when you got any of these prints, by the way?

Mr. MANDELLA. No; there wasn't.

Mr. EISENBERG. All the prints were blank on the reverse side?

Mr. MANDELLA. They were blank on the reverse side. There was handwriting within the photographs but not----

Mr. EISENBERG. That is on the face of the photographs?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Would you proceed, Mr. Mandella?

Mr. MANDELLA. Box A, photo No. 25.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is Commission Exhibit 656, and I will hand you photo No. 25.

Mr. MANDELLA. What was that number, 656? Numbers 25 and 34.

Mr. EISENBERG. I now hand you Nos. 25 and 34. Could you identify No. 25 first Mr. Mandella?

Mr. MANDELLA. No. 25, Commission Exhibit No. 656, contains three identifiable fingerprints, one of which, located in the center in a whorl-type pattern, is the No. 2 finger or the right index finger of Lee Harvey Oswald. The fingerprints on the right and the left do not belong to Lee Harvey Oswald but the one in the center, the whorl-type pattern, is his No. 2 finger.

Mr. EISENBERG. Which is that now again, the right-hand index finger?

Mr. MANDELLA. The No. 2 finger, which is the right index finger, and again the first joint, the bulb of the finger.

Mr. EISENBERG. The bulb of the distal phalanx?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Of the right index finger?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes.

Mr. DULLES. For clarity, where were these taken? What were these taken from?

Mr. EISENBERG. This was taken from box A----

Mr. DULLES. Box A?

Mr. EISENBERG. Which I believe is a 10 rolling reader carton. Is there printing or handwriting on the back of that photograph 25?

Mr. MANDELLA. Yes; there is.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you read it to us?

Mr. MANDELLA. "Center impression No. 2 finger Oswald from Box A photo--latent on left unidentified--Photo Nos. 25 and 27 identical--Negative with Oswald unidentified."

Mr. EISENBERG. "Negative with Oswald," are you referring now to two of the three photographs--two of the three prints appearing on the photograph?

Mr. MANDELLA. That is right, two prints, exactly, the one in the center, of course I am not in reference to the one in the center, which is his. The two on the right and left are unidentified.

Mr. EISENBERG. And No. 34, Mr. Mandella?