Part 68

Mr. STERN. Did you take over from Agent Fain or in some other way?

Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; I did not take over directly. When Agent Fain retired directly from the Bureau he had closed the case. He had a case which we call a pending inactive case on Mrs. Marina Oswald. This case I did take over. It was in what we call a pending inactive status, that is, nothing was to be done for a period of 6 months. Then at the end of the 6-month period it was then turned into a pending case and I went out and attempted to locate Mrs. Marina Oswald for the purpose of interviewing her.

I might add that it is the practice of the FBI to interview immigrants from behind the Iron Curtain on a selective basis, and she was so selected to be one of these persons to be interviewed.

Mr. STERN. When was this?

Mr. HOSTY. This was March 4, 1963, when I began my inquiry as to her present whereabouts. I determined on March 4, 1963, through the Immigration and Naturalization Service records that she had moved from Fort Worth to the Dallas area. She was living on a street called Elsbeth Street in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas.

Mr. STERN. What happened in connection with the case of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. HOSTY. This case was closed at this time. It was closed.

On March 11, 1963, I made inquiry at this Elsbeth address, and determined from the landlady, I believe her name was Mrs. Tobias, that she had just evicted Lee and Marina Oswald from her apartment building because of their alleged fighting and his alleged drinking. They caused a disturbance and she had asked him to leave on March 3, 1963. She told me they had moved a short distance away. She didn't know where. On that same date, I was able to determine from the postal authorities that they had changed their address to 214 Neely Street, also in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas.

On the 14th of March, I verified that Oswalds were residing at this address when I found the mailbox with the name of Lee and Marina Oswald at this address, 214 Neely Street. Now, because of the alleged marital difficulties they were having, I in my judgment decided this was not the time to interview Mrs. Oswald, but to allow a certain cooling off period. So I then checked Lee Oswald's file, at which time I determined that he had a contact with the New York Daily Worker.

Mr. STERN. How did you learn that?

Mr. HOSTY. From our New York office. Our New York office sent a letter through to the Dallas office. This was the first time I had seen this letter.

Mr. STERN. This appeared in his file?

Mr. HOSTY. In his file; yes, sir.

Mr. STERN. Even if the case was closed, the file would continue to accumulate?

Mr. HOSTY. That is correct, and they are periodically rechecked for things of this nature.

I noticed it, and then because of the domestic difficulty and the fact that I knew I would be interviewing his wife in the near future, I requested that the case be reopened. I requested the supervisor in Dallas to reopen the case to me.

Mr. STERN. Was that in writing or verbally?

Mr. HOSTY. Actually, it was, it would appear in writing. I did this by sending a letter to the Bureau, to the FBI headquarters in Washington, setting forth the information I had developed, and then on our office copy I made a request that this case be reopened. This is a normal procedure that we go through when we open cases, or reopen cases.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Hosty, did the letter from your New York office say what the nature of the contact with the Daily Worker was?

Mr. HOSTY. It said he was on the mailing list, sir, of the Daily Worker.

The CHAIRMAN. On the mailing list?

Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Proceed.

Mr. HOSTY. Then, like I say, I made a judgment that it would be best not to interview Mrs. Oswald at this time until there was a certain cooling off of their domestic difficulty, because it is not wise to interview a person of that type under a strain.

So I set it up that I would go back and recheck in 45 days. This was not highly urgent at the time. We had waited a period of time, and it wouldn't hurt to wait another 45 days. When I went back to check again in May, the middle of May, I found out that they had moved from their Neely Street address and had left no forwarding address.

Mr. STERN. Stop there and let's go back and cover a few details.

Mr. HOSTY. All right, sir.

Mr. STERN. Your recommendation to reopen the case of Lee Harvey Oswald was made at the end of March 1963?

Mr. HOSTY. Right; I believe the letter would be dated March 31.

Mr. STERN. Was your recommendation accepted?

Mr. HOSTY. Yes; and it was reopened.

Mr. STERN. With respect to the pending inactive investigation of Marina Oswald, had any work been done previous to the time when you thought about interviewing her?

Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; in a pending inactive case it is really almost in the same status as a closed case. We do nothing on it, and it was just a waiting period of 6 months that we had set up.

Mr. STERN. Had that case been an active case?

Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; it never had been. It was opened as a pending inactive case.

Mr. STERN. So that no work had been done?

Mr. HOSTY. No, sir.

Mr. STERN. Until the point in time when you were considering the possibility of interviewing Mrs. Oswald?

Mr. HOSTY. The only work that had been done was the work which I did in connection with the Lee Oswald case for Mr. Fain. I checked the immigration records on Marina Oswald and got her background, just put her background, her name, her description, her place of birth, and that sort of thing in the file.

Mr. STERN. What is the difference administratively between a "pending inactive" and a "closed" case?

Mr. HOSTY. In a pending inactive case, any information coming into the office would be routed to the agent, it would not be put in the file and be missed by the agent.

Mr. STERN. Could Lee Harvey Oswald's case have been put in a pending inactive status rather than a closed status in 1962?

Mr. HOSTY. I wasn't involved in that. Mr. Fain was the one.

Mr. STERN. But as far as administrative procedures are concerned?

Mr. HOSTY. If they had so desired, I think they could have, yes.

Mr. STERN. There was no policy or procedure?

Mr. HOSTY. If there was some more work to be done, if they had decided to, say, reinterview him at, say, in 6 months, they could have.

Mr. STERN. But it would have taken something of that sort?

Mr. HOSTY. Yes; it would have to be some more work to be done on the case in the opinion of the agent.

Mr. STERN. So that pending inactive is part of pending?

Mr. HOSTY. It is sort of midway between.

Mr. STERN. Only the work you have decided to do is more remote?

Mr. HOSTY. Right.

Mr. STERN. More in the future?

Mr. HOSTY. Right.

Mr. STERN. You say that you were considering interviewing Marina Oswald?

Mr. HOSTY. Right.

Mr. STERN. Did you know that she did not speak English?

Mr. HOSTY. Yes; I knew that. In fact, I determined that when I did the neighborhood check on the 3d of March.

Mrs. Tobias told me that she didn't speak a word of English and couldn't communicate with anybody except her husband who spoke Russian.

Mr. STERN. I show you a report of four pages, marked "Report of James P. Hosty, Jr."

Mr. HOSTY. Right.

Mr. STERN. Dated 9-10-63.

Mr. HOSTY. Right.

Mr. STERN. And marked for identification Commission Exhibit No. 829.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 829 for identification.)

Mr. STERN. Can you identify that report for us?

Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir; that is my report.

Mr. STERN. Tell us how you came to prepare this report?

Mr. HOSTY. Well, as I told you earlier, in May I found that they had left, Marina and Lee Oswald had apparently left the Dallas area.

In June, I believe it was the middle of June, we received a communication from our New Orleans office advising that one Lee Oswald, was apparently in New Orleans, and requested information on him. They had had previous correspondence with the Dallas office in connection with the Lee Oswald case, as an auxiliary office, and we are aware that we did have a case on him. They asked if this could be the same man, and I wrote back and told them that Lee Oswald had left the Dallas area, and for them to attempt to verify the presence of Lee Oswald and Marina Oswald in New Orleans.

Mr. STERN. This was at what time, Mr. Hosty?

Mr. HOSTY. This was June 17, I believe, they notified us, and by the time I got the letter back to them within a week or 2 it would have been the end of June, early part of July. I sent a request back that they verify his presence in New Orleans. They then wrote back a letter to me, within 2 or 3 weeks. It would have been in August when it came back, that they had verified Oswald's presence in New Orleans, and that he was working in New Orleans.

Now, this meant under our procedure that since Lee Oswald and Marina Oswald were now located in the New Orleans division, they would take control of the case.

Mr. STERN. Would you explain briefly for the Commission the terms "Office of Origin" and "Auxiliary Office" and how you use those terms?

Mr. HOSTY. Office of origin is the office covering the area of the residence of the individual under investigation. This is the office which controls the case. Now, an auxiliary office is any other office which has investigation in the case and assists the office of origin in this matter.

New Orleans had earlier been an auxiliary office. Dallas had been the office of origin. Now, the situation was reversed, because Lee Oswald and Marina Oswald were now in New Orleans. This had been verified.

Mr. STERN. Would you just summarize the relevant dates from March 1963 through August 1963 in terms of your concern and what you found out about his movements and your communications with the New Orleans office?

Mr. HOSTY. All right. This would be March 4 I got the address in Dallas.

March 11 I determined that they had moved from that one address to another address in Dallas.

March 14 I verified that address. I sent the communication to the Bureau and requested the case be reopened on March 25. I rechecked in the middle part of May as to if they were still at that address in Dallas and determined that they were gone.

On June 17 New Orleans contacted our office, and advised that they had information that the Oswalds were in New Orleans. Early July I wrote to New Orleans and requested that they verify this information and let me know. Early August they did so verify it.

Mr. STERN. If you will look at page 2 of the report we have marked for identification No. 829----

Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir.

Mr. STERN. The last paragraph on that page relates--well, tell us what information that refers to.

Mr. HOSTY. It says, "On April 21, 1963, Dallas confidential informant T-2 advised that Lee H. Oswald of Dallas, Tex., was in contact with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in New York City at which time he advised that he passed out pamphlets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. According to T-2, Oswald had a placard around his neck reading, 'Hands Off Cuba, Viva Fidel.'"

Mr. STERN. Did you attempt to verify that information?

Mr. HOSTY. When I got it, it was approximately 6 or 7 weeks old, past the date it allegedly took place, and we had received no information to the effect that anyone had been in the downtown streets of Dallas or anywhere in Dallas with a sign around their neck saying "Hands Off Cuba, Viva Fidel." It appeared highly unlikely to me that such an occurrence could have happened in Dallas without having been brought to our attention. So by the time I got it, it was, you might say, stale information and we did not attempt to verify it.

Mr. STERN. When you record this as something that an informant advised about on April 21, that doesn't mean he advised you or the Dallas office on April 21?

Mr. HOSTY. That is right.

Mr. STERN. Did this information come from another part of the FBI?

Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir; it came from the New York office of the FBI. They were advised on the 21st of April.

Mr. STERN. But the information didn't get to you until some time after?

Mr. HOSTY. In June, I believe.

Mr. STERN. Did you have any information apart from this that there was an organization active in the Dallas area called, "The Fair Play for Cuba Committee"?

Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; we had no information of any organization by that name.

Mr. STERN. Had you at this time ever heard of such an organization?

Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir; I had.

Mr. STERN. In what connection?

Mr. HOSTY. The New York office had advised all offices of the FBI to be on the alert for the possible formation of chapters of this organization which was headquartered in New York.

Mr. STERN. Had you investigated the Dallas area in that connection?

Mr. HOSTY. We had checked our sources, I had and other agents assigned to the internal security division had checked sources. We were on the alert for it.

Mr. STERN. And you found what?

Mr. HOSTY. We found no evidence that there was any such organization in Dallas.

Mr. STERN. Have you reviewed this report marked for identification No. 829, Mr. Hosty?

Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir; I have.

Mr. STERN. In connection with your preparation for testimony today?

Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir.

Mr. STERN. Is there any change you would like to make in anything set forth in it?

Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; I wish it to stand as it reads.

Mr. STERN. Is there anything you would like to add?

Mr. HOSTY. No, sir.

Mr. STERN. Amplify?

Mr. HOSTY. No, sir.

Mr. STERN. The letters "RUC" appear on the first page after the synopsis.

Mr. HOSTY. Right.

Mr. STERN. What do they mean?

Mr. HOSTY. That stands for "Referred Upon Completion" to the office of origin.

Mr. STERN. What does that indicate?

Mr. HOSTY. This indicates that as an auxiliary office we have now completed our investigation.

Mr. STERN. When did Dallas become an auxiliary office in connection with this case?

Mr. HOSTY. It became an auxiliary office upon the submission of the proper forms to the New Orleans office in which I designated them as office of origin. They had verified the residence and employment of Lee Oswald in their city, so upon sending this report and the form they automatically became office of origin.

Representative FORD. Who makes that determination, Mr. Hosty?

Mr. HOSTY. Well, sir; actually it is made by the person who resides in their area, sir. When they reside in their area and work in their area they automatically become office of origin.

The old office of origin sends a form to the new office and advises them, "You are now office of origin." Of course the Bureau gets a copy of that.

Representative FORD. Do you actually move the files or do they get duplicates?

Mr. HOSTY. No, sir. What we do is we review our files and see what communications in the file they do not have copies of. Then they are then sent the copies of any communications they don't have, so that they have a complete file. There is nothing that they don't have.

Representative FORD. You don't actually transfer anything from your office?

Mr. HOSTY. No; the file is not transferred. Individual communications would be if they were lacking a particular communication. Now, in this case New Orleans had previous communications. They did have some background. It was necessary for me to give them a couple of Mr. Fain's reports that you people have looked at earlier. I had to send those reports to them. They hadn't gotten them.

Mr. STERN. I think it is appropriate to have this admitted at this time, if we may, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. The document that has been numbered 829 may be admitted.

(The document heretofore marked Commission Exhibit No. 829 for identification was received in evidence.)

The CHAIRMAN. I would like to ask you, Mr. Hosty, about the information that Mrs. Tobias gave you. I am reading from it now: "Mrs. Tobias advised they had considerable difficulty with Mr. Oswald who apparently drank to excess and beat his wife on numerous occasions. They had numerous complaints from the other tenants due to Oswald's drinking and beating his wife."

Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you investigate that to see if that was true.

Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; I took her word for it. There was no reason for me to press it any farther. She had apparently looked into it and had evicted them on the basis of her feelings. I was just reporting what she had done.

Mr. STERN. Had you had any part of the investigation of the case of Lee Harvey Oswald before the time covered by the report?

Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir; I had.

On the 12th of July 1962 on request of former Agent John Fain, I checked the records of the Immigration and Naturalization Service in Dallas, and got the background information on Marina Oswald, the wife of Lee Oswald. I incorporated it into a memorandum.

Mr. STERN. I show you Commission Exhibit No. 824 which has previously been admitted. Can you identify any part of that?

Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir; starting in the details here, when it says "At Dallas the following investigation was conducted by S. A. James P. Hosty, Jr.," this is a direct copy of my memorandum which I prepared for Agent Fain down to and including all of page 2.

Mr. STERN. Have you reviewed that----

Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir.

Mr. STERN. In preparation for your testimony, and have you anything you would like to correct or add?

Mr. HOSTY. No, sir.

Mr. STERN. After the New Orleans office became office of origin, Mr. Hosty, did you have any further connection with the investigation of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; not until October of 1963.

Mr. STERN. Not until October? No mention of his name as far as you are concerned until then?

Mr. HOSTY. No.

Mr. STERN. I show you a two-page document which has been marked Commission Exhibit No. 830 for identification.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 830 for identification.)

Can you identify this document?

Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir. This is an insert which I prepared for a larger report. Notice on the top the initials "JPH." Those are my initials, showing I prepared these two pages.

Mr. STERN. Have you looked at the larger report from which this was taken?

Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir.

Mr. STERN. Does any part of that report relate to an investigation made before November 22, 1963?

Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; this is the only part that relates to investigation prior to the 22d of November 1963.

Mr. STERN. Why was it that this was not made the subject of a separate report?

Mr. HOSTY. I don't know. I didn't make that decision.

Mr. STERN. This is something you filed covering----

Mr. HOSTY. I was told to do it this way, and I did it.

Mr. STERN. You said before that you had no further connection with the case of Oswald until October 1963.

Mr. HOSTY. That is correct.

Mr. STERN. Would you tell us in detail what your first contact was in October?

Mr. HOSTY. On October 3, 1963, I received a communication from our New Orleans office advising that Lee Oswald and his wife Marina Oswald had left the New Orleans area a short time before. According to the communication, Marina Oswald, who was at that time 8 months pregnant, had left New Orleans with her small child, 2-year-old child, in a station wagon with a Texas license plate driven by a woman who could speak the Russian language. Lee Oswald had remained behind and then disappeared the next day. I was requested to attempt to locate Lee and Marina Oswald.

Mr. STERN. Did the request come to you personally?

Mr. HOSTY. To the Dallas office, and the case was then reopened to me. Dallas was an auxiliary office to New Orleans, and it was reopened. I had previously handled the case. It was reopened and assigned to me.

Mr. STERN. And by what office?

Mr. HOSTY. By the Dallas office, reopened the case in Dallas.

Mr. STERN. By the supervisor?

Mr. HOSTY. Supervisor of our squad, yes.

Mr. STERN. And what squad is that?

Mr. HOSTY. The internal security squad.

Mr. STERN. What did you do on October 3 and thereafter?

Mr. HOSTY. Well, there wasn't too much to go on, just a woman driving a station wagon with a Texas license plate. I went to the immigration office to check to see if they had any information, tried to determine if we had any persons around the area, I tried to think of anyone who spoke Russian who had a station wagon and who was a friend of Marina Oswald's. I went to Fort Worth and checked in his old neighborhood, Lee and Marina's old neighborhood, attempted to locate Robert Oswald, his brother, and determined that Robert Oswald had left the Fort Worth area, had moved to Arkansas.

I then sent out a lead to the Little Rock office which covered the area of Malvern, Ark., where Robert Oswald was living, and requested that he be contacted to see if he knew where Lee Oswald was. Then I continued checking through the Dallas and Fort Worth area attempting to determine if the Oswalds had returned to the Dallas or Fort Worth areas.

Mr. STERN. Was this a usual or unusual amount of effort?

Mr. HOSTY. I would say usual amount. I went to neighborhoods where I knew they had been, checked with relatives who had previously been cooperative, just the usual.

Mr. STERN. Was there any notion of urgency in locating him that you got from the New Orleans office?

Mr. HOSTY. No particular note of urgency. Just to let me know that he had left and be on the alert for him.

Mr. STERN. Did they tell you anything about what he had been doing in New Orleans?

Mr. HOSTY. Not at that time.

Mr. STERN. Did you have any information apart from what you knew before he moved to New Orleans at that time?

Mr. HOSTY. Well, I had learned before we had referred the case to New Orleans that he had been engaged in this Fair Play for Cuba Committee work down in New Orleans. They had told us that. We were aware that he was in contact with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in New York. That was about all at this time.

Mr. STERN. You learned this from the New Orleans office?

Mr. HOSTY. Right.

Mr. STERN. What next happened in your effort to locate him?

Mr. HOSTY. I then received a communication on the 25th of October from the New Orleans office advising me that another agency had determined that Lee Oswald was in contact with the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City in the early part of October 1963.

Mr. STERN. Did they tell you anything else?

Mr. HOSTY. No. Just very briefly that there had been a contact.

Mr. STERN. Did this increase your effort to find him?

Mr. HOSTY. Very much so, yes. I became curious then. Shortly thereafter, on the 29th of October, I received another communication from the New Orleans office advising that they had a change of address for Lee and Marina Oswald to 2515 West Fifth Street, Irving, Tex.

Mr. STERN. You received that information when?

Mr. HOSTY. On the 29th of October.

Mr. STERN. What did you do then?

Mr. HOSTY. Well, I went to--I checked the Dallas crisscross. Unfortunately Irving is a suburb outside of Dallas and people residing in Irving are not covered in the city directory, so it is very difficult to determine who resides at a given address in Irving. I then went out on the same date, on the 29th of October 1963, to the neighborhood of 2515 West Fifth Street, made inquiry at 2519 West Fifth Street, made what we call a pretext interview, and talked to a woman, whose name at that time I didn't know, but who I now know to be Mrs. Dorothy Roberts.

Mr. STERN. What did Mrs. Roberts tell you?

Mr. HOSTY. Mrs. Roberts told me that the residence of 2515 West Fifth Street was Mrs. Ruth Paine, the wife of Michael R. Paine. They were at this time separated. Michael was not living at that address.

She told me that Michael Paine was employed as engineer at the Bell Helicopter Co. in Fort Worth, Tex., that Mrs. Paine was employed on a part-time basis as a teacher of the Russian language at St. Marks School for Boys in Dallas, Tex.