Part 66

Mr. FAIN. These were the confidential informants available to me in Fort Worth only.

Representative FORD. Would there be a different set of informants in Dallas?

Mr. FAIN. Yes; they had informants, I suppose, one or two from the area there, but we certainly had two when I considered to be excellent right in Fort Worth and I am sure they had good access.

Representative FORD. But would such a check of informants at Fort Worth necessarily mean there couldn't have been some relationship Oswald had with the Communist Party in Dallas, for example?

Mr. FAIN. Well, these in Fort Worth are familiar with some of the activity in Dallas, too.

Representative FORD. There would be a connection between your informants in Fort Worth----

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir.

Representative FORD. And those that might exist in Dallas?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir. I contacted these on several occasions, on two occasions that I remember, and, I felt, if this man was a member of the Communist Party they would know about it.

Representative FORD. When one of the Secret Service agents went down to Dallas prior to the assassination in his preparation for the visit of the President he checked through informants in certain right-wing elements in Dallas to see whether or not there was to be any violence at the time of the President's visit. There have been allegations to the effect that Oswald was in some way connected with such alleged right-wing organizations. Did you have any knowledge of that?

Mr. FAIN. No, sir; no, sir.

Representative FORD. Did you have any reason to check it?

Mr. FAIN. No; all the information that I had and as these reports will reflect, he was along the lines of Marxist, Communist, if anything, and I don't think you will find any indication that he was on the other.

Representative FORD. You had no information that he was in any way whatsoever connected with the alleged right-wing organizations?

Mr. FAIN. That is right. That is right, I did not.

Mr. McCLOY. Did any Secret Service people get in contact with you prior to the visit of the President, or did you get in contact with them?

Mr. FAIN. No, sir. You see, I retired from the FBI October 29 of 1962. The President was down there November 22, of 1963.

Mr. McCLOY. I forgot.

Mr. DULLES. That was how long, I didn't catch the date, how long before the assassination attempt?

Mr. FAIN. I retired October 29 of 1962, and the assassination----

Mr. DULLES. The year before, about?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DULLES. A little over a year.

Mr. FAIN. The assassination occurred in November of 1963, isn't that correct?

Representative FORD. Are you still living in the Dallas-Fort Worth area?

Mr. FAIN. No, sir; I am at Houston. I moved to Houston and retired on the 28th and went to Houston on November 1 of 1962.

Representative FORD. What is your present occupation?

Mr. FAIN. I am office manager and in charge of accounts receivable for my brother who is an orthopedic surgeon in Houston.

Representative FORD. You no longer have any connection with the Government?

Mr. FAIN. No, sir; I do not. The Bureau has been mighty good to me. I have enjoyed my tenure of service.

Mr. STERN. Mr. Fain, was there any procedure that you went through upon your retirement in turning over cases, cases you had worked on whether they were in closed status or pending cases? Did you discuss the cases with an agent who was taking them over?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. STERN. Was a closed case discussed in that fashion?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, in general, in other words----

Mr. STERN. Do you recall discussing the Oswald case with another agent?

Mr. FAIN. Not specifically, no; I do not.

Mr. STERN. But you do think you would have in connection with the procedures you followed upon your retirement?

Mr. FAIN. Maybe not. We might not, since this case was closed, I doubt very much that we discussed it.

Mr. STERN. You have no recollection of it?

Mr. FAIN. At least I have no recollection of having discussed it with him.

Mr. STERN. May we have this report, Mr. Chairman, which has been marked for identification 824, admitted?

Representative FORD. It may be admitted.

(The document referred to, previously marked as Commission Exhibit No. 824 for identification, was received in evidence.)

Mr. STERN. Mr. Fain, I show you a document, a letter from Director Hoover with attachments, which has been marked for identification Commission No. 825. Would you turn to the last two pages and can you tell us what the last two pages constitute?

Mr. FAIN. The last two pages constitute an affidavit which I gave to the Houston office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Mr. STERN. Did you make it at the Houston office?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. STERN. What was the occasion of your making this affidavit?

Mr. FAIN. I was contacted by Mr. Ed Dalrymple, special agent of the FBI, and he explained to me that he would like to talk to me about this matter. He said he had had an inquiry concerning whether or not I had ever paid this man, Lee Oswald, any money for any information and he asked me if I would be willing to give an affidavit and I said I certainly would be glad to. I came down to the office and gave this affidavit to him on January 29, 1964.

Mr. STERN. Is there anything you would like to add to this affidavit or any correction you would like to make in it at this time?

Mr. FAIN. No, sir; I do not.

Mr. STERN. When you talk about an informant, does that term mean to you only someone who receives money for information?

Mr. FAIN. No, they have an informant that would furnish information without compensation. Informant in the generally accepted term is anyone who would furnish information to the FBI.

Mr. STERN. When you say no effort was made to recruit Lee Harvey Oswald's services in any capacity on behalf of the FBI or any other Government agency, you mean for compensation or otherwise?

Mr. FAIN. Oh, yes. That was my understanding for the reason of this affidavit was whether or not I had ever paid him or offered to pay him any money, remuneration or compensation for any information and certainly there had been no effort to recruit him along that line at all and no payment had ever been made to him.

Mr. STERN. Would you consider then the same question but without the element of compensation: Had you ever made any effort to recruit his services without compensation?

Mr. FAIN. Well, we, of course, interviewed him a couple of times and asked him for information and told him that if he were ever contacted by any Soviet individuals or under any suspicious circumstances to be sure and let us know about it.

Mr. STERN. Did you ever ask him to do anything more than that for you?

Mr. FAIN. No, sir.

Mr. STERN. Did you ever ask him to try to become a member of any group for you?

Mr. FAIN. No, sir; no, sir.

Mr. DULLES. Did he agree to supply the information?

Mr. FAIN. He promised to; yes, sir.

Mr. DULLES. In case he should be approached?

Mr. FAIN. He said he would cooperate with us.

Mr. STERN. The last paragraph of your affidavit describes his attitude as arrogant and hostile. Did you say that on the basis of both interviews with him?

Mr. FAIN. Predominantly as a result of the first, and frankly as I said a while ago, he was and continued to be evasive as to his reason for ever having gone over there, and I consider that uncooperative.

Mr. STERN. But did you feel he was arrogant and hostile at the time of the second interview?

Mr. FAIN. Not so much as he was the first. I would say he was more so, more arrogant and hostile at the first interview.

Mr. STERN. If there are no other questions in this area, I have just one other point I would like to cover with Mr. Fain, and that is what were your instructions, Mr. Fain, as a special agent of the FBI, with regard to referring to the Secret Service information bearing upon the protection of the President, not in this case but as a general proposition?

Mr. FAIN. As a general proposition, if there was any information coming to our attention, express or implied, or any implication that the President might be in danger or anyone had made a threat of that character, we would always refer it to the Secret Service, that was made clear to us from the very beginning of my service.

Mr. STERN. In your 20 years of service as a special agent did you ever have any occasion to refer information to the Secret Service?

Mr. FAIN. I don't remember any specific instances but I am sure there have been a few occasions where I have turned over some information like that and I have run several investigations out as to who this individual was and as to what he was, and so forth.

But any indication of, a threat or otherwise I would have contacted my supervisor--it happened at Fort Worth at that time we didn't have a representative of Secret Service, it was covered out of Dallas, but if there had been anything like that, any indication of potential for violence or any threats I would have called my Dallas office and they would have in turn advised the Secret Service.

Mr. STERN. Did you see any reason to refer Lee Harvey Oswald to the Secret Service?

Mr. FAIN. No, sir; no, sir. I didn't see any potential for violence at that time; no, sir.

Mr. STERN. Did he ever mention the President or the Presidency or----

Mr. FAIN. No, sir.

Mr. STERN. Or any elected official to you?

Mr. FAIN. No, sir.

Mr. STERN. Governor Connally?

Mr. FAIN. No, sir.

Mr. DULLES. Would the memoranda of these conversations be put in a file that was in any way special as to of doubtful character or suspicious character so that it might be referred to later under that category?

Mr. FAIN. They constantly review these, as I understand it, these matters.

Mr. DULLES. Who is "they"?

Mr. FAIN. The supervisory desk over there constantly is going over these matters, and if there is any--they check the files to see if anything has come in on it that would look like it ought to be reopened.

Mr. DULLES. But there was no mark on this file to indicate that this was a case that might have some pending interest from the point of view of security?

Mr. FAIN. No, sir; not that I am aware of.

Mr. STERN. Is there anything you would like to add to anything you have told the Commission this morning, Mr. Fain?

Mr. FAIN. I believe not. I don't recall anything additionally.

Mr. DULLES. Did you card all these files so that--and was there a card in your files under the name of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. FAIN. Not in my files, but when it goes to Dallas they index all those.

Mr. DULLES. They do that in Dallas?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; and the seat of Government.

Mr. DULLES. And there was a card on Lee Harvey Oswald, a special card, in addition to a file in the office?

Mr. FAIN. I am sure there was, there might have been an index.

Mr. DULLES. But you didn't know that yourself?

Mr. FAIN. No, sir; but we didn't maintain one in Dallas--in Fort Worth.

Mr. STERN. That is all.

The CHAIRMAN (presiding). Well, Mr. Fain, thank you very much, sir, for your courtesy and your help to us. We appreciate it. Sorry to disturb you in your retirement.

(At this point Senator Cooper entered the hearing room.)

(At this point Representative Ford left the hearing room.)

TESTIMONY OF JOHN LESTER QUIGLEY

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Quigley, this session of the Commission is for the purpose of hearing the testimony of certain members of the FBI concerning interviews they had with Lee Oswald, and we understand that you had one with him.

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes, sir; I did.

The CHAIRMAN. And we want to have you discuss that with us. Would you please rise and raise your right hand and be sworn. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before this Commission shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. QUIGLEY. I do, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Be seated, please. Mr. Stern will conduct the examination.

Mr. STERN. Would you state your full name for the record, Mr. Quigley?

Mr. QUIGLEY. John Lester Quigley.

Mr. STERN. Your address?

Mr. QUIGLEY. No. 4, Cromwell Place, New Orleans, La.

Mr. STERN. Have you a law degree, Mr. Quigley?

Mr. QUIGLEY. I do, sir.

Mr. STERN. From what institution?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Columbus University, Washington.

Mr. STERN. Are you a member of the bar?

Mr. QUIGLEY. No; I am not, sir.

Mr. STERN. Upon receiving your law degree, did you join the FBI?

Mr. QUIGLEY. I was in the FBI at the time I was going to law school.

Mr. STERN. And when did you join the FBI?

Mr. QUIGLEY. July 7, 1936.

Mr. STERN. And you have been a member of the FBI since then?

Mr. QUIGLEY. That is correct.

Mr. STERN. To the present time. What was your assignment in 1963?

Mr. QUIGLEY. General assignment, investigative assignment.

Mr. STERN. In what office?

Mr. QUIGLEY. New Orleans division, at New Orleans, La.

Mr. STERN. How long had you been in the New Orleans office?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Since February of 1959.

Mr. STERN. Mr. Quigley, I show you a document which has been marked Commission No. 826 for identification. Can you identify this document for us, please?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes; I can identify it. This is the October 31, 1963, investigative report of Special Agent Milton R. Kaack, who was at that time assigned to the New Orleans division, with regard to Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. STERN. Are you responsible for any portion of this report, Mr. Quigley?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes; I am, sir.

Mr. STERN. What portion?

Mr. QUIGLEY. I direct your attention to page 6 of this report, pages 6 through 10, which reflect the result of an interview which I had with Lee Harvey Oswald on August 10, 1963, at New Orleans, La.

Mr. STERN. Are you responsible for any other portion of the report, Mr. Quigley?

Mr. QUIGLEY. I am confident I am not but may I just look at it for a moment. No, sir; I am not.

Mr. STERN. Can you identify the entire report from your official duties?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes. I have seen this, a copy of this report, in our files at New Orleans.

Mr. STERN. Have you reviewed this report recently in preparation for your testimony before the Commission?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes; I have.

Mr. STERN. Turning now to page 6 of the report, can you tell us from this memorandum when you interviewed Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes; I interviewed him at the first district station, New Orleans Police Department, on August 10, 1963.

Mr. STERN. How did you come to interview Mr. Oswald?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Lt. Francis L. Martello, platoon commander at the first district, New Orleans Police Station, called our office and advised that he wished an agent to stop by there since there was a prisoner who desired to speak with an agent.

As a result of this telephone call, I proceeded to the first district.

Mr. STERN. Did you receive the telephone call?

Mr. QUIGLEY. No, sir; I did not.

Mr. DULLES. By agent, did he mean agent of the FBI?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes, sir; yes, sir.

Mr. STERN. You were assigned by someone in your office to take this assignment?

Mr. QUIGLEY. That is right. This was on a Saturday, which we operate on a skeleton staff. We do not have a full staff on a Saturday.

Mr. STERN. Were you accompanied by any other agent of the FBI in making this interview?

Mr. QUIGLEY. I was not.

Mr. STERN. Is that normal, under your procedures?

Mr. QUIGLEY. I would say yes. Agents operate independently unless there is a specific reason for more than one agent to be present.

Mr. STERN. As far as you knew here there was no such reason?

Mr. QUIGLEY. There was no reason.

Mr. STERN. Did you know whom you were going to interview, by name?

Mr. QUIGLEY. I did not, sir.

Mr. STERN. Just an individual who was----

Mr. QUIGLEY. An individual, that is correct.

Mr. STERN. Had you any knowledge of an organization called Fair Play for Cuba Committee's activities in New Orleans before this interview?

Mr. QUIGLEY. I had knowledge that there was such an organization in existence in the United States. I had no knowledge of any activities of such an organization in the city of New Orleans, La.

Mr. STERN. Did you know of its existence in the United States as part of your official work?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Overall knowledge of Bureau operations; yes, sir.

Mr. STERN. Were you working on any particular investigation involving this Committee at the time?

Mr. QUIGLEY. No, sir; I was not.

Mr. STERN. Will you tell us what occurred first when you came to the police station?

Mr. QUIGLEY. At the time I arrived at the police station, Lieutenant Martello directed me to the commanding officer's office, where there was laid out on the table a number of different pamphlets, throwaways, relating to the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, which he advised me had been removed by the New Orleans Police Department from Oswald the previous day, August 9, at the time of his arrest, for disturbing the peace on Canal Street.

I reviewed, generally looked over, the material to see what it was. I was not familiar with any of this material. While I was doing this, he had not at this point identified who the individual was other than the person had been arrested the previous day; while I was looking over the material, the jailer brought in an individual who was then introduced to me by Lieutenant Martello as Harvey Lee Oswald. I then identified myself by credentials to Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. STERN. You said Harvey Lee Oswald.

Mr. QUIGLEY. I beg your pardon.

Mr. STERN. You meant Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes; Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. STERN. Did his name mean anything to you at that time?

Mr. QUIGLEY. No, sir; it did not.

Mr. STERN. In these documents that you were given to look at by the New Orleans Police was there a handwritten list of names, addresses, telephone numbers--anything of that sort.

Mr, QUIGLEY. No, sir; there was not.

Mr. STERN. Have you subsequently learned of such a list in connection with your duties?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes; I have.

Mr. STERN. Have you been told why that list wasn't furnished to you at the time of your interview?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes; I have. On November 29, 1963, I went to the first district station in New Orleans Police Department to confer with Lieutenant Martello. At this time he informed me that on November 23, 1963, a representative of the Secret Service had contacted him about 3 o'clock in the morning, told him that he was conducting an official investigation with regard to the assassination of the President, and desired to talk to him.

Arrangements were made the following or that same day, to meet at the first district station. At approximately 3 o'clock the Secret Service representative met there. At this time, Lieutenant Martello went to his files, removed from the files the evidence that had been taken from Oswald on August 9, 1963. In going through these documents, he noted this piece of paper that had what appeared to him to be foreign writing, he felt that it probably was Russian but he did not know. He turned this over to the Secret Service.

He related to me that at the time he had questioned Oswald on August 10, 1963, prior to the time that he had called the FBI office, that he had gone through items in Oswald's wallet, which is a normal procedure for the police to do, for background identification, and so forth, and among the items in his wallet was this piece of paper, and in the discussion that pursued, apparently this particular document and a small photograph of Oswald inadvertently became involved with the evidence that was being handled in the case at the time, and the file was then put away, and it was not gone back into, as I understand it, until this interview of the 23d, when he discovered this document.

Mr. DULLES. And the photograph?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. DULLES. In addition to the writing was among these other papers?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. STERN. Did you make notes of your interview?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes; I did, sir.

Mr. STERN. Do you practice shorthand or any speedwriting?

Mr. QUIGLEY. No, sir; I do not.

Mr. STERN. How soon after the interview did you record the interview formally?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Five days.

Mr. STERN. Did you dictate or draft it yourself?

Mr. QUIGLEY. I dictated from my notes.

Mr. STERN. Did you retain the notes?

Mr. QUIGLEY. No, sir; I did not.

Mr. STERN. Is it your usual practice to destroy notes once you have dictated a memorandum?

Mr. QUIGLEY. It is the usual practice to destroy your notes after the completed work has been returned to you for proofing to make certain that the information is accurate, then you do destroy them.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. STERN. Mr. Quigley, I show you a one-page document marked for identification with the number 827. Can you identify that document?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes; I can identify this document.

Mr. STERN. What is it, please?

Mr. QUIGLEY. This is a copy of a document that was turned over to me by Lt. Francis L. Martello of the New Orleans Police Department, on November 29, 1963. He informed me that at the time he interviewed Oswald on August 10, 1963, Oswald had on his person a piece of paper which was removed from his wallet which contained some foreign writing as well as some English, that the piece of paper inadvertently became involved in the evidence in the case with reference to the disturbing of the peace. And subsequently on November 29, 1963, he found this original document that had been taken from Oswald among the items of evidence at the first district police station. He then turned the original of this document over to Secret Service representative, Mr. Adrian Vial, who was assigned to the Secret Service office at New Orleans.

Prior to turning the original document over to Mr. Vial, Lieutenant Martello made a copy in his own handwriting of the document that was turned over to Mr. Vial. This is the copy of the document that Lieutenant Martello made and which was turned over to me on November 29, 1963.

Mr. STERN. And you have just supplied that document to the Commission?

Mr. QUIGLEY. I have.

Mr. STERN. You mentioned that Lieutenant Martello said that there was a photograph among these papers of Lee Harvey Oswald. Did you see the photograph?

Mr. QUIGLEY. No; I did not.

Mr. STERN. Do you know what he did--did he tell you what he had done with the photograph?

Mr QUIGLEY. He did not, sir.

Mr. STERN. Did he tell you anything about the photograph, tell you what it was a photograph of?

Mr. QUIGLEY. He remarked in his report that it appeared to be a passport photograph.

Mr. STERN. Of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. STERN. Turning now to the first page of your report, Mr. Quigley, in the third paragraph you show that you were told that Mrs. Oswald's maiden name was Prossa. From your practice, would you have taken that name down, asked the person being interviewed to spell it for you?

Mr. QUIGLEY. I certainly would have.

Mr. STERN. If you were relying on your ear, would you indicate that?

Mr. QUIGLEY. I would never take a name phonetically.

Mr. STERN. So you believe----

Mr. QUIGLEY. I would request an accurate spelling.

Mr. STERN. You believe that he spelled the name to you?

Mr. QUIGLEY. I am positive he did, sir.

Mr. STERN. This way. Have you reviewed this memorandum of your interview?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes; I have, sir.

Mr. STERN. Is there anything you would like to add to it now----

Mr. QUIGLEY. No, sir.

Mr. STERN. Any detail that you omitted that you now think of?

Mr. QUIGLEY. No, sir.

Mr. DULLES. Are you quite sure he said to you that about 4 months ago he and his wife Marina Oswald, named Prossa, whom he met and married in Fort Worth, moved to New Orleans?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Well, these are not his direct words, sir. This is the substance of what he told me; yes. This is accurate. This is my own phraseology.

Mr. DULLES. I understand.

Mr. McCLOY. One other thing. I have to leave shortly to go to lunch, but on page 7 of this report you described these membership cards.

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes, sir.