Part 63

Mr. FAIN. Paragraph 4 on page 2. "He stated he had no contact in any manner or form with any individual known to him to be a Soviet official or affiliated in any way with Soviet establishments. He also advised that as far as he knows neither his mother or other members of his family had had any contact whatsoever with Soviet officials or with Soviet establishments."

I explained to him the jurisdiction of the FBI, that the FBI had jurisdiction in internal security matters in the United States, and Robert told me that he would immediately contact the FBI in the event he was contacted by Soviet officials. Then I also asked him, as is contained in that final paragraph on the same page, "Oswald stated that neither he nor his mother as far as he knew had been requested to furnish any items of personal identification to Lee Oswald in Russia. He said he would immediately contact the FBI in the event any information like that came to his attention."

Representative FORD. These were the only interviews you had with either one of them?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; at that time, yes, sir.

Senator COOPER. Can I ask a question?

Mr. McCLOY. Did you have one at any other time?

Mr. FAIN. These were the first interviews. We will get to those later. Do you want to go into those?

Mr. McCLOY. Never mind. We will get to those in due course. But wasn't the touch-off on this investigation the fact that a transfer order or an attempted remittance was being sent to Oswald in Russia by his mother?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. McCLOY. That was the thing that prompted the inquiry, wasn't it?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; that is right.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator.

Senator COOPER. Yes.

Did Mrs. Oswald give you any reason for her statement she would not have been surprised if Lee Oswald had gone to Cuba or some South American country? Did she explain that statement?

Mr. FAIN. No; she didn't. She just--of course, she was all upset and bothered by his having gone to Russia, and she expressed great surprise that he had gone to Russia, and she said just casually or during the course of the conversation she wouldn't have been surprised for him to have gone, say, to South America or to Cuba, but to go to Russia, she was totally surprised and taken aback.

Senator COOPER. She didn't give you any reason why she would not have been surprised----

Mr. FAIN. No; she didn't go into that.

Senator COOPER. Whether he had said anything about Cuba or South America.

The CHAIRMAN. All right, Mr. Fain. Do you have other questions?

Mr. STERN. I have other questions for him. I thought we might break it up in the order of his reports.

The CHAIRMAN. Go right ahead.

Mr. STERN. One last question at this stage, Mr. Fain: Did Mrs. Oswald indicate to you in any way that she thought Lee Harvey Oswald had gone to Russia in any capacity other than as a private citizen?

Mr. FAIN. No; she did not. She apparently didn't know why he had gone at all. She was surprised he had gone in the first place.

Mr. STERN. She did not suggest in any way that he might have been an agent of the United States or serving United States interests in Russia?

Mr. FAIN. I think she did remark something about she believed he was a secret agent. Maybe she was clutching at anything----

Mr. STERN. She did? Is that covered in that report?

Mr. FAIN. In one of these reports I believe it is.

Mr. STERN. I am talking about this one, as of this time.

Mr. FAIN. No; I believe that came in something else. She told evidently the State Department in Washington, D.C.

Mr. STERN. Yes.

Mr. FAIN. That is where that came from.

Mr. STERN. I am asking whether she suggested this to you at the time of your interview of Mrs. Oswald on April 28, 1960.

Mr. FAIN. No; I don't recall anything of that. I have confused that.

Mr. STERN. Mr. Chairman, may we have the report admitted into evidence?

The CHAIRMAN. It may be and it will take the next number.

Mr. STERN. That was marked for identification 821.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. No. 821 may be admitted.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 821 for identification, and received in evidence.)

Mr. STERN. Mr. Fain, I show you a report of 11 pages dated July 3, 1961, entitled "Lee Harvey Oswald." Can you identify this report for us, and we will number it for identification No. 822.

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; this is my report. It is dated July 3 of 1961.

Mr. STERN. Have you reviewed this report recently in preparation for your testimony today?

Mr. FAIN. I have.

Mr. STERN. Is the report complete in all respects of the subject matter it covers?

Mr. FAIN. Yes; it is.

Mr. STERN. Is it accurate in all respects of the subject matter it covers?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. STERN. Is there any addition or correction you would like to make to the report as it stands now?

Mr. FAIN. No, sir.

Mr. STERN. The report shows on the cover page, Mr. Fain, that a copy was sent to the Office of Naval Intelligence in New Orleans, La. Can you tell us why that was done?

Mr. FAIN. Well, this investigation at this time was under internal security category R, and you will notice that predicated on information received by a communication of January 11, 1961, from District Intelligence Office, Naval District, New Orleans, La., advising that Oswald, who had attempted to defect in Russia in October 1959, and who was a member of the U.S. Marine Corps Reserve had been given an undesirable discharge from the U.S. Marine Corps Reserve on August 17, 1960.

Mr. STERN. When you say the investigation was predicated on this information, what precisely do you mean?

Mr. FAIN. That was the reason that this report was initiated from that incoming communication from New Orleans.

Mr. STERN. And how did this information come to you? Was it sent to you directly, if you know, from the New Orleans Naval District or did it come from FBI----

Mr. FAIN. It would have come through Dallas, the headquarters division office in Dallas.

Mr. STERN. But so far as you know was it sent from New Orleans to Dallas or from New Orleans to FBI headquarters in Washington and then disseminated to Dallas?

Mr. FAIN. I expect it came directly to the Dallas office. It could have been, the office there might have gotten a copy of it, might have gotten the original, and this might have been a copy. I just don't recall.

Mr. STERN. Were you instructed to make this investigation or did you initiate it yourself on the strength of this information from the naval district in New Orleans?

Mr. FAIN. There again I believe that the supervisor in Dallas asked that this case be--or did reopen it and asked for a background investigation. It looks like this is a background type of investigation on the individual Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. STERN. When you say "reopen," Mr. Fain, does that mean there was a case opened previously on Lee Oswald?

Mr. FAIN. No; I used the wrong term. I confused it with this report. This looks a different type of investigation, this "Funds Transmitted to Residents of Russia."

Mr. STERN. That was not an investigation of Lee Harvey Oswald as such?

Mr. FAIN. That is right.

Mr. STERN. This was actually the first report concerning the individual?

Mr. FAIN. That is correct.

Mr. STERN. So that did this represent the opening of a case on Lee Harvey Oswald, Mr. Fain?

Mr. FAIN. Yes; it did.

Mr. STERN. And as far as you know, there was no earlier investigation of Lee Harvey Oswald as such; is that correct?

Mr. FAIN. I believe that is correct.

Mr. STERN. I am just asking you of your own knowledge.

Mr. FAIN. That is right.

Mr. STERN. You say this was a background investigation. What do you mean by that, Mr. Fain?

Mr. FAIN. Well, we always ascertain his correct name and aliases, and residences, where he previously lived, his employment, his citizenship status, his nationality background, his education, his military record, whether or not he had any relatives, close relatives, in the Armed Forces; and we get a physical description of him, identification record, and where possible we always get a photograph; and his mother furnished a copy of the photograph to us on April 28, 1960.

Mr. STERN. On the first page of the report, the initial "C" appears after the synopsis. What does that mean, Mr. Fain?

Mr. FAIN. That means closed.

Mr. STERN. What does that indicate to you in terms of the investigation?

Mr. FAIN. Well, it indicated that we obtained the information concerning this person, to identify him, as to who he was, something about him, about his background; it appearing there was no further need for investigation at that time, we closed the case.

Mr. STERN. Your report indicates at page 8 that the files of the office of naval intelligence in Louisiana were checked. Was that done at your request, if you recall? Did you check those files?

Mr. FAIN. I did not. That would have been checked in the New Orleans division.

Mr. STERN. Would this have been done at your request or on the instructions of someone else?

Mr. FAIN. I am of the opinion that that information probably came along with the other information or subsequent to the other information on which this case was predicated. I don't recall asking them to make any check like that.

Mr. STERN. The first paragraph on page 1 reads a little differently. It says, "Information received by communication from the Naval District," and on page 8 you refer to a check of the files of Naval Intelligence.

Mr. FAIN. It sounds like a check was made, and they had made some information available to us, and I incorporated it in this report.

Mr. STERN. "They" is--who do you mean by "they"?

Mr. FAIN. The New Orleans Division of the FBI.

Mr. STERN. Of the FBI?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. STERN. But the first indication on page 1, when you refer to information received by communication from the District Intelligence Office, does that seem to indicate a check was made by the FBI office in New Orleans or this information was delivered by the Office of Naval Intelligence voluntarily, without request?

Mr. FAIN. I don't recall ever dictating a request. It could have happened, but you must remember it has been over a year and a half since I referred to these things. And----

Mr. STERN. Sure.

Mr. FAIN. That just sounds like it is a communication we received from there, and that we opened the case based on that information. That would be my opinion now.

Mr. STERN. But you don't know why they would have been sending you that information?

Mr. FAIN. That can be ascertained.

Mr. STERN. Yes. We, perhaps, can find out from other witnesses if you don't remember, and if you don't know, just tell us that.

Mr. FAIN. I do not know; I don't recall that.

Mr. STERN. All right. On page 10, the top paragraph, in reference to a review of the files of the passport office of the Department of State, again do you recall whether this was done at your request by someone else?

Mr. FAIN. No, sir; I do not. It could have been requested by letter out of the Dallas office or it might have been that it was made up here at seat of Government.

Mr. STERN. But in any event did you check these files at the State Department?

Mr. FAIN. I did not.

Mr. STERN. The passport office?

Mr. FAIN. No. My investigative jurisdiction was the Fort Worth area and vicinity.

Mr. STERN. Again would you summarize your recollection of the purpose and direction of the investigation at this stage, at the time covered by this report. What do you recall to have been the purpose and direction of the investigation?

Mr. FAIN. At this particular point it seems we were looking at this individual, opened the case to find out who he was and see if he was any kind of an internal threat, a threat to the internal security of our country.

Mr. STERN. What was your evaluation of that question as a result of your investigation?

Mr. FAIN. At that time we--there was nothing appearing that he was of any potential danger to the security of--I was trying to find out whether or not, you will notice on page 9 there the last paragraph, to see whether or not he was a member of the Communist Party in Fort Worth, and my check of our confidential sources showed that there was no knowledge available, no information available, that he was a member of the Communist Party. That was supposed primarily my immediate objective, to find out whether or not he was connected with the Communist Party there in Fort Worth, in addition to the developing of the background information on him.

Mr. STERN. And this entered into your evaluation at the time, the fact that he was not a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; there was no indication that he was a member of the Communist Party in Fort Worth.

Mr. STERN. Was it also relevant to your evaluation that he was apparently living in Russia at the time?

Mr. FAIN. I beg your pardon?

Mr. STERN. Was it also relevant to your conclusion about his not being a threat to the internal security of the United States that at the time he was apparently living in Russia, at the time covered by this report?

Mr. FAIN. Well, certainly we were going to keep track of him from then on, naturally, if he is over there.

The CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen, any questions? Mr. McCloy.

Mr. McCLOY. On the top of page 10, Mr. Chief Justice, this report refers to the review on May 9, 1961, of the files of the passport office. Who did make that review if you didn't make it?

Mr. FAIN. Someone, some employee of the FBI here at the seat of Government.

Mr. McCLOY. How did you know it was made?

Mr. FAIN. How did I know it was made?

Mr. McCLOY. Yes.

Mr. FAIN. The communication concerning the results of the check were sent by mail back to Dallas, and then my supervisor sent it to me at Fort Worth.

Mr. McCLOY. That is how it came to be embodied in your report?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; and I covered it in my report.

Mr. McCLOY. I see. Have we got a copy of that? Do we have that review, the report of that review?

Mr. STERN. We will receive testimony concerning it from the Assistant to the Director of the Bureau.

Mr. McCLOY. Will we be able to examine the person who examined Mrs. Oswald and to whom apparently she said that she thought he was a secret agent, that Oswald was a secret agent?

Mr. STERN. I am sure we can arrange that. That would have been someone in the State Department.

Mr. McCLOY. That is right. But you don't know anything except what is stated in the report here?

Mr. FAIN. That is correct, as a result of a communication from this office to Dallas.

Mr. McCLOY. No further reasons that you recall in that report as to why she thought he was a secret agent or he might have been a secret agent?

Mr. FAIN. No, sir; I am sure I copied it from that report just like it was there. She expressed the thought that, perhaps, her son had gone to the Soviet Union as a secret agent, and the State Department was not doing enough to help him.

Mr. McCLOY. All right.

The CHAIRMAN. Congressman Ford.

Representative FORD. No questions.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Cooper.

Senator COOPER. Again I ask you, on page 6, the second paragraph, it states, "Mrs. Oswald also stated the subject had mentioned something about his desire to travel and said something also about the fact that he might go to Cuba." Do you remember whether or not she talked to you about that?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; that was the information that she gave me on April 28. If you will notice from the first paragraph on April 28, 1960, Mrs. Marguerite Oswald stated that was a repeat, in other words, of the information that actually was contained in this first report we mentioned a while ago.

Senator COOPER. On page 8 she stated she had not been requested to furnish any items of personal identification of the subject in Russia. What is meant by that "personal identification"?

Mr. FAIN. Well, in these espionage cases we wanted to be sure that they hadn't been contacted by the Soviet intelligence agencies for any purpose or any reason at all. We didn't know whether maybe he went over there and maybe they had gotten in touch with his parents or his relatives and demanded any information about him to verify who he was, and so forth.

Mr. McCLOY. Could you remember the photograph that Mrs. Oswald presented to you of Lee Oswald?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; I don't remember the details right now, but I believe it was a photograph of him in the service.

Mr. McCLOY. So far as you can recollect it was in uniform?

Mr. FAIN. I just don't recall the facts.

Mr. McCLOY. You don't recall that he was carrying any weapons?

Mr. FAIN. He was not. I am sure he was not carrying any weapons. I don't believe, I am certain--I don't believe--he was in uniform at all. I think it was a picture of him. The picture, as I recall it, was not a recent picture. It was 3 or 4 years old.

Mr. McCLOY. All right.

(At this point in the proceedings, Senator Cooper leaves the hearing room.)

The CHAIRMAN. Very well, Mr. Stern, you may continue with the next item.

Mr. STERN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. May we admit Exhibit 822 for identification at this time?

The CHAIRMAN. It may be admitted under that number.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 822 for identification and received in evidence.)

Mr. STERN. Mr. Fain, I show you Commission Exhibit No. 823 for identification, a report of 15 pages dated July 10, 1962. Can you identify this report for the Commission?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; this is my report dated July 10, 1962.

Mr. STERN. Have you reviewed this report in preparation for your testimony today?

Mr. FAIN. I have.

Mr. STERN. Is it correct in all respects concerning the material covered?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. STERN. Is there anything you would like to add to any of the data set forth there?

Mr. FAIN. No, sir; I believe not.

Mr. STERN. It carries on page 1 after the synopsis the symbol "P." What does that mean, Mr. Fain?

Mr. FAIN. Pending, a pending case.

Mr. STERN. Now, the case was closed, I believe you told us, as of the time of your last report which was Commission No. 822. Can you tell us how this report, this Exhibit 823 for identification, came to be prepared, and how the investigation reflected in this report came to be held?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; there began to appear various items of information that this subject, Lee Oswald, was preparing or was desiring to come back to the United States, and----

Mr. STERN. How did you learn this, Mr. Fain?

Mr. FAIN. Well, the various communications which I received or which our office there received, and various checks that the State Department----

Mr. STERN. Excuse me, by your office there what do you mean, Dallas?

Mr. FAIN. The communications would come over to me from Dallas from my supervisor.

Mr. STERN. Yes.

Mr. FAIN. And he would get the communications from the seat of Government.

Mr. STERN. "The seat of Government" is the way you refer in the Bureau to the Federal Bureau of Investigation?

Mr. FAIN. The Federal Bureau of Investigation or it might have come from the Washington field office here.

Mr. STERN. So the seat of Government can mean any communication from Washington, either from your field office here or from your headquarters?

Mr. FAIN. That is the way I have been referring to it as seat of Government.

Mr. STERN. I see. All right. Please continue telling us how this investigation was carried out.

Mr. FAIN. I was given the assignment to contact his folks, Mrs. Oswald, his mother, and----

Mr. STERN. By whom, if you recall, Mr. Fain? Was this an assignment that came from FBI headquarters or from----

Mr. FAIN. This incidentally, this communication, we got dated September 1, 1961, from the Washington field office. You see the seat of Government is the main headquarters, in D.C.

Then we have a field office there, Washington field office, that we refer to as WFO, which is an office similar to the Dallas division or the Buffalo division or other divisions, a working division that goes out and conducts investigations in the area. I was given the assignment to contact Mrs. Oswald, the mother, and to find out any information that she might have. They had been cooperative, and I wanted to see what the situation was, and especially when this boy was coming home. We wanted to interview him and stay on top of the situation, and in that connection I contacted Robert Lee Oswald again because she wasn't in town, I couldn't locate her.

Mr. STERN. Where in your report is that stated?

Mr. FAIN. On page 4. He gave me her address, said she had gone to a ranch around Vernon, Tex., in the western area and our agent at Wichita Falls made contact with her. That is set out in the middle of the page--the results of of the contact.

Mr. STERN. That was at what time?

Mr. FAIN. On October 13 "Mrs. Marguerite Oswald, 1808 Eagle Street, Apartment No. 3, Vernon, Texas, advised that about 2 months previously she had received from her son," and so forth.

Mr. STERN. It took this period of time from your interview in September----

Mr. FAIN. September 18.

Mr. STERN. To locate Mrs. Oswald?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir. That is about 3 weeks, isn't it?

Mr. STERN. Yes.

Mr. FAIN. I think, my recollection is, he had difficulty locating her in that sparsely settled western country. I think he had to go to several different towns and finally located her.

Mr. STERN. So that the interview of Mrs. Oswald reflected at the bottom of page 4 was the interview conducted by another agent at your request; is that right?

Mr. FAIN. That is at the request of the Dallas office, that is right.

The CHAIRMAN. May I interrupt a moment, gentlemen? I have a commitment at the Smithsonian Institution for about 45 minutes, and so I will be obliged to leave at this time. Congressman Ford, will you preside during my absence, and if you should be obliged to leave for your congressional duties, leave it in charge of Mr. McCloy to do it. I expect to be back in three-quarters of an hour.

(At this point in the proceedings, the Chairman leaves the hearing room.)

Representative FORD [presiding]. Will you proceed, please, Mr. Stern.

Mr. STERN. Yes, sir. Was your interview with Robert Lee Oswald at your instance or did he volunteer?

Mr. FAIN. I located him for interview and tried to locate his mother and, incidentally, in that connection he was very cooperative, and I obtained all the information that he had that I could, and he volunteered a lot of this information.

Mr. STERN. Had you previously asked him to let you know if he had received any communication from his brother?

Mr. FAIN. I had asked him to be sure to let us know in case--I told him we wanted to talk to him when he came back.

Mr. STERN. You told him you wanted to know when Lee Harvey Oswald was coming back, but not whether he had any specific communication?

Mr. FAIN. We specifically wanted him to let us know if he had any contact with Soviet intelligence agents, anything like that, anything that he thought might not look right, to be sure and let us know.

Mr. STERN. Then on page 8 it says that "Mrs. Robert Oswald promised to advise upon his arrival." Were you----

Mr. FAIN. That was the wife of Robert.

Mr. STERN. Yes. Did you interview Mrs. Oswald, Mrs. Robert Oswald?

Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; yes, I did.

Mr. STERN. What was the occasion for that interview, Mr. Fain?

Mr. FAIN. Well, to be sure and have someone let us know when this boy Lee arrived back in town.

Mr. STERN. You were willing to rely on her advice?

Mr. FAIN. We had no reason not to. They had been very cooperative, both Mrs. Oswald and Robert Oswald. Robert is an older brother of Lee. I think he was about 2 years older than Lee.

Mr. STERN. Did Mrs. Robert Oswald advise you voluntarily that she had received this postcard from Lee Harvey Oswald or did this come up when you stopped by? That is at the bottom of page 7.