Part 6

Mr. LATONA. Well, a lot of times that all depends. Sometimes they don't realize the significance of a latent examination, and it is unavoidable that an object has been contaminated. And then a lot of times it is simply because of the circumstances. Sometimes possibly in an instance of this kind because of the crime itself which was involved, I dare say there must have been a lot of panic there at that time. That is just pure conjecture on my part. I don't know whether they were thinking in details as to the examination. I don't think they sat down and just figured very calmly what they were going to do.

Representative BOGGS. Of course not.

Mr. LATONA. I imagine everybody just poured into that room where they found the thing, somebody would say, "Was this the gun?" and he handed it to someone else and then he would look at it. Lord knows what went on down there.

By the time the gun got there--on the other hand, if the right officer was there he would have protected it from the beginning and that is unquestionably what happened here.

Mr. DULLES. I have to make a telephone call. I will be right back.

Mr. EISENBERG. I believe that the print showing in the lift was taken from an area which had been covered by the wooden stock so that it was protected even against----

Mr. LATONA. Promiscuous handling, yes. If that were on the underside, if that was covered by the wood then very obviously those people there never did touch that.

Mr. EISENBERG. At any rate, we are going to find out exactly what they did.

Representative BOGGS. Yes. Go ahead.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, just to elaborate on some questions which Mr. Boggs was asking earlier, Mr. Latona, referring specifically to this weapon, do you believe that a determination could have been made as to the age of the print found on the weapon which you have identified as being Oswald's print, and a lift of which is Exhibit No. 637?

Mr. LATONA. No; I don't.

Mr. EISENBERG. You don't?

Mr. LATONA. No; I don't.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are experts unanimous in this opinion?

Mr. LATONA. No; they are not. There are some experts who contend that they can determine from the way the print develops, and they will use the term "fresh."

Now, on the other hand, so far as the definition of "fresh," then it resolves itself into an hour, a day, a week, a month. What is "fresh" as aside from an "old" one? And my opinion simply is this. That on the basis of the print itself, on the basis of the print itself I cannot determine how old it is.

Mr. EISENBERG. At least specifically on this type, or in particular focusing on this type of weapon?

Mr. LATONA. Particularly on that weapon.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is 139?

Mr. LATONA. That is right.

Mr. EISENBERG. If there are no further questions on Exhibit 139, Commissioner Boggs, I will move on to another exhibit.

Mr. Latona, I hand you now a small cardboard carton which has written on it "Box A" in red pencil and has various other marks which I won't go into, and I ask you whether you are familiar with this box, this carton?

Mr. LATONA. Yes; I am.

Mr. EISENBERG. And did you examine this carton, Mr. Latona, to determine whether there were any identifiable latent fingerprints present?

Mr. LATONA. I did not personally process this box, but I was present at the time that the box was, and I had occasion to examine that during the course of its being processed while it was being done.

Mr. EISENBERG. It was processed in your presence?

Mr. LATONA. In my presence and under my direction.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, I would like this admitted as a Commission exhibit with your permission.

Representative BOGGS. It will be admitted.

Mr. EISENBERG. That will be 641.

(The box referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 641, and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, when you received this box which is now 641, did it bear any evidence that it had been dusted or otherwise tested for fingerprints?

Mr. LATONA. No; it had not, just a plain cardboard box.

Mr. EISENBERG. So far as you could tell then it had not been?

Mr. LATONA. That is right; it had not been processed.

Mr. EISENBERG. How was it processed in the FBI laboratory?

Mr. LATONA. First by the iodine fume and subsequently by chemical means.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did the iodine fume develop any identifiable prints?

Mr. LATONA. It did not.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did the chemical means?

Mr. LATONA. The silver nitrate did develop a latent fingerprint.

Mr. EISENBERG. Just one?

Mr. LATONA. A latent fingerprint; yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Just one identifiable print?

Mr. LATONA. One identifiable print; yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Do you want to check your notes on that, Mr. Latona?

Mr. LATONA. There was another print identified on that. There were two prints, one palmprint. There was developed on Box A, Exhibit No. 641, one palmprint and one fingerprint.

Mr. EISENBERG. Were those the only identifiable prints, Mr. Latona?

Mr. LATONA. No; there were other fingerprints developed on this box.

Mr. EISENBERG. Do you recall how many there were?

Mr. LATONA. On Box A, in addition to these two prints there were developed eight fingerprints and three palmprints.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is, a total of 13?

Mr. LATONA. Nine fingerprints and four palmprints.

Mr. EISENBERG. Thirteen identifiable prints?

Mr. LATONA. That is right.

Mr. DULLES. Could I just get caught up. What is this box we have here?

Mr. EISENBERG. This is a box which was found near the window in the TSBD from which the assassin apparently fired, that is, the easternmost window or the south face of the TSBD. Yesterday, cartridge cases--and the day before--cartridge cases were discussed which were also found near that window. This box is labeled on there, I believe----

Mr. LATONA. "A."

Mr. EISENBERG. Yes; and I think it also says "top box": yes; it says "top box."

Mr. DULLES. This is the "Rolling Reader?"

Mr. EISENBERG. That is right.

Mr. DULLES. The Rolling Reader has played quite a role in our testimony.

Mr. EISENBERG. Yes; now, this particular box is labeled "top box," and I believe this particular box was on the top of the three boxes, two of which were Rolling Reader boxes, which were found near the window and which may have been used as a rest by the assassin for his rifle.

Mr. DULLES. As I recall, previous testimony indicates that the Rolling Reader box had been moved from its normal place----

Mr. EISENBERG. Apparently so.

Mr. DULLES. With the other Rolling Reader boxes, and put in a position near the window from which it was alleged the shot was fired.

Mr. EISENBERG. Apparently so, and, apart from the two boxes--the two Rolling Reader boxes which were found near the sixth floor window--the regular storage area for the Rolling Reader boxes was a distance away from the sixth floor window.

Mr. DULLES. Yes; I recall that testimony.

Mr. EISENBERG. So you found 13 identifiable prints, Mr. Latona. Were you able to identify any of these prints as belonging to a specific individual?

Mr. LATONA. We were able to identify one fingerprint and one palmprint.

Mr. EISENBERG. And whose prints were they?

Mr. LATONA. The fingerprint was identified as Harvey Lee Oswald.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. LATONA. That is right.

Mr. EISENBERG. And the palm?

Mr. LATONA. The palmprint was identified also as Harvey Lee Oswald.

Mr. EISENBERG. Again Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. LATONA. That is right.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, again you used, did you, the known print which was marked into evidence earlier?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. And you used those in all your identifications, I believe?

Mr. LATONA. That is right.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, can you tell us what portion of the palm of Lee Harvey Oswald is reproduced on this box, this carton 641, as a latent print?

Mr. LATONA. I have here a photograph of the palmprint which has an area indicated by a rough red circle showing the approximate area, which is the ulnar area of the left palm.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is the area closest to the little finger?

Mr. LATONA. On that side; yes, sir.

Mr. EISENBERG. This is a true photograph which was prepared by you or under your supervision?

Mr. LATONA. A true reproduction of the original, which you already have.

Mr. EISENBERG. May I have this admitted as 642, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. DULLES. May I ask a question. Apparently the red mark on this exhibit on the palm is in a different place, isn't it, a slightly different place?

Mr. LATONA. It is a different palm. This is the left palm.

Mr. EISENBERG (addressing Mr. Dulles). This is the left palm. The other two are right palms.

Mr. DULLES. Good, that straightens me out.

Mr. EISENBERG. Actually they were both on the ulnar side of the palm?

Mr. LATONA. That is correct.

Mr. EISENBERG. And they were both taken on what is commonly called the heel of the palm?

Mr. DULLES. This is a different hand. This is the left hand, and what we have had so far is the right hand on the palmprints.

Mr. EISENBERG. Yes, sir.

Mr. LATONA. Previously we had two palmprints on the right hand. This third one is from the left.

Mr. EISENBERG. May this photograph be admitted as 642, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. DULLES. This will be admitted.

(The photograph referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 642, and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, do you have another photograph in your hand there?

Mr. LATONA. Here I have another photograph, a slight enlargement time and a half, which is a latent palmprint found on the cardboard box marked "A," which is the Commission's Exhibit 641. This is indicated by a red arrow.

Mr. EISENBERG. Let's hold that just a second and get the photograph admitted.

Representative BOGGS (addressing Mr. Eisenberg). Where did these boxes come from?

Mr. EISENBERG. These boxes were located in front of the window from which the assassin apparently fired. There were three boxes stacked immediately in front of the window, of which this Exhibit No. 641 was the topmost box, and these were apparently used as a rest by the assassin for positioning his rifle.

As you can see, there are several other boxes in the room which will be introduced shortly.

Mr. DULLES. I may say that there was testimony, I don't recall whether you were here at the time, about some boxes called Rolling Reader, Hale. Do you recall the testimony on the Rolling Reader?

Representative BOGGS. No.

Mr. DULLES. These boxes were moved from a place on the sixth floor room where a great many Rolling Reader boxes were placed, and they were put near the window, and a Rolling Reader--apparently these are cubes, and they are for small children and they roll them out on the floor and they learn how to read the letters of the alphabet and other things from these Rolling Readers.

These boxes, because of their nature--do you know what the blocks are made of?

Mr. EISENBERG. No; I don't.

Mr. DULLES. They weren't solid wood but they were light cubes and therefore presumably these boxes were moved because they were a good deal lighter and easier to handle than other boxes. Is that consistent with the testimony as you recall it?

Mr. EISENBERG. Yes.

Representative BOGGS. Were they full when you got them?

Mr. EISENBERG. You will have to ask Mr. Latona.

Mr. LATONA. They were empty. They had been opened and the books removed or the contents, whatever it was.

Mr. DULLES. The contents were apparently these cubes, as we were told, and small children use them and roll them on the floor and then they got the A's and the B's and the C's.

Representative BOGGS. In the opening process, this would not have any effect on the fingerprints or the palmprints?

Mr. LATONA. It could. I mean in the sense that somebody else's prints, the people opening them if they didn't take the time and effort to protect themselves, they could have left their prints there. I don't know how that was done.

Mr. DULLES. Do you recall whether the testimony shows whether the boxes were presumably filled when they were originally moved from their normal place in the Book Depository to the window?

Mr. EISENBERG. I think they were, although I haven't read the testimony.

Mr. DULLES. I am not sure there is testimony on that point but I think that is the general assumption.

Mr. EISENBERG. Based on reproduction photographs we have seen----

Mr. LATONA. That is the understanding that we have, that this was the depository for new material. I think there was new material in these boxes. They were simply stored there.

Representative BOGGS. They wouldn't have acted as a very good rest had they been empty.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. EISENBERG. Back on the record.

Mr. Chairman, may I have this photograph of the latent palmprint admitted as 643?

Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted.

(The photograph referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 643, and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you show us where on the box, the box 641, this latent palmprint appears?

Mr. LATONA. The latent palmprint appears on box A, Commission's Exhibit 641. It has been indicated by a red arrow.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you mark that arrow with an "A"?

Mr. LATONA. The red arrow is being marked "A."

Mr. EISENBERG. That points to the palmprint of Lee Harvey Oswald--identified by you as being Lee Harvey Oswald's, is that right?

Mr. LATONA. That is right.

Mr. EISENBERG. Let the record show that Mr. Dulles and Mr. Boggs and Mr. Murray are looking at the actual print marked "A," or marked with an arrow next to which is written the letter "A."

Mr. MURRAY. I see what appears to be a print; yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Dulles and Mr. Boggs?

Mr. DULLES. I also see what appears to be a print.

Representative BOGGS. I see the same thing.

Mr. DULLES. And it is too big in my opinion to be a fingerprint.

Mr. EISENBERG (addressing Mr. Latona). Did you prepare a photograph also of the fingerprint which appears on this box----

Mr. LATONA. Yes; I did.

Mr. EISENBERG. 641, Mr. Latona?

Mr. LATONA. Yes; I did.

Mr. EISENBERG. And is this a true photograph of that fingerprint?

Mr. LATONA. It is.

Mr. EISENBERG. May I have this admitted, Mr. Chairman, as 644?

Mr. DULLES. This is a fingerprint now?

Mr. EISENBERG. Yes; which also appears on the box that Mr. Latona just testified as to, 641.

Mr. DULLES. Has he identified what fingerprint?

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you testify that this was the fingerprint----

Mr. LATONA. No.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you identify this fingerprint as belonging to a given individual?

Mr. LATONA. Yes; I did.

Mr. EISENBERG. And that individual was?

Mr. LATONA. Lee Harvey Oswald, and it is the right index fingerprint.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman----

Mr. DULLES. The right index finger.

Mr. EISENBERG. That will be 644.

Mr. DULLES. Admitted.

(The fingerprint referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 644, and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. You also have a photograph of a 10-finger card showing that print encircled?

Mr. LATONA. I do.

Mr. EISENBERG. It is a red circle, and you are handing that to me now?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. May I have that admitted, Mr. Chairman, as 645?

Mr. DULLES. It may be admitted.

(The photograph referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 645, and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. What portion of the finger of Lee Harvey Oswald does that print represent?

Mr. LATONA. It represents what is referred to as the distal phalanx of the right index finger.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is the phalanx or the tip furthest away from the wrist?

Mr. LATONA. The palm.

Mr. EISENBERG. Or from the palm?

Mr. LATONA. That is right.

Mr. EISENBERG. Is that a full or partial print of the distal phalanx?

Mr. LATONA. That is a partial print.

Mr. EISENBERG. And does it take on the center, or the ulnar or the radial portion of the phalanx?

Mr. LATONA. No, that takes actually the central portion of the print.

Mr. EISENBERG. The central portion?

Mr. LATONA. The so-called pattern area is disclosed by the latent print.

Mr. DULLES. Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you show us, Mr. Latona, on 641, where the fingerprint impression that you have just identified is?

Mr. LATONA. That appears on one of the ends of the box indicated by a red arrow.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you mark that arrow, "B"?

Mr. LATONA. Marked "B."

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Dulles, would you care to take a look at that?

Mr. LATONA. Here you are going to see several clear prints but it is only one that we have identified, and that is the one directly under the arrow.

Mr. DULLES. I see four there, or five.

Mr. LATONA. It is the little one here in the middle, right here.

Mr. DULLES. Is it this one here, right there?

Mr. LATONA. No; the one next to it.

Mr. DULLES. That one there?

Mr. LATONA. That is right.

Mr. DULLES. What are all these other fingerprints?

Mr. LATONA. They are all other fingerprints.

Mr. EISENBERG. There were a total of 13 identifiable prints on the box, did you say?

Mr. LATONA. That is right. Those are not Oswald's prints.

Representative BOGGS. Those may have been other people opening the box?

Mr. DULLES. The box was carried around probably.

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. DULLES. When it was first put there and moved.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you put your finger on that box, Mr. Latona, in the way that the finger was placed?

Mr. DULLES. How do you think he was carrying that box?

Mr. LATONA. I don't know.

Mr. EISENBERG. Is your finger now placed in the way the finger was placed to create the impression? It is pointing with the fingernail towards the arrow and in the same line as the arrow, with just the tip of the finger on the box.

Mr. DULLES. Everybody seems to have held that box.

Mr. LATONA. It is a little one right there.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Murray, do you want to take a look?

Representative BOGGS. You have not identified any of these others?

Mr. LATONA. No.

Mr. EISENBERG. Let the record show that Commissioners Dulles and Boggs and Mr. Murray are looking at that fingerprint, and have apparently satisfied themselves----

Mr. MURRAY. The portion shown to me appears to be part of a fingerprint.

Mr. EISENBERG. They have satisfied themselves that the print is on the box.

Now, therefore, to recapitulate: You found on this carton 641 the left palmprint and the right index fingerprint of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. LATONA. That is correct.

Mr. EISENBERG. One other thing. Getting back to the palmprint, marked "A," could you show us how a hand would lie to produce that print?

Mr. LATONA. In the position of the palm pointing towards the arrow.

Mr. EISENBERG. Pointing towards the arrow, that is, in the opposite direction that the arrow points?

Mr. LATONA. That is right.

Mr. EISENBERG. But in the same line as the arrow. Your hand is parallel with the line but covering that completely?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. And although it covers it, I would say that the arrow would fall in the midline of the palm, is that right?

Mr. LATONA. That is right.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Latona, did you prepare a chart showing some of the points which led you to the conclusion that the latent palmprint found on 641 was identical with the inked palmprint submitted to you by the Dallas police?

Mr. LATONA. I had charts prepared; yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. These were prepared under your supervision?

Mr. LATONA. They were.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may I have that chart admitted as 646?

Mr. DULLES. It will be admitted.

(The chart referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 646, and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. What is the magnification?

Mr. LATONA. Approximately eight times.

Mr. EISENBERG. Is the magnification equal on both sides?

Mr. LATONA. Both sides; the inked palmprint and latent palmprint both the same.

Mr. EISENBERG. Is that true of all of the charts that you have submitted and will be submitting this morning?

Mr. LATONA. That is true.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, could you point out some of these points? I think in the interest of time it would be better if you took several of the points instead of all 13 points you have marked.

Mr. LATONA. I believe you will find this will be a little bit more difficult to see in view of the fact that the ridge formations are cut up a little bit more. However----

Mr. DULLES. Would you put that over there. You have identified 13 points of similarity?

Mr. LATONA. Yes; 13 have been drawn but there are quite a few others.

Mr. EISENBERG. You have marked 13 in other words, is that it, Mr. Latona?

Mr. LATONA. Sir?

Mr. EISENBERG. You have marked 13?

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. DULLES. On this exhibit?

Mr. LATONA. That is right. Here, for example, is an easy one to show up, this point No. 1 as compared to point No. 1 here, and its relationship to point No. 2, the relationship of point No. 2 to point No. 3.

Looking over here we find that there is a relationship between points Nos. 1 and 2, one, two, three, four, five, one, two, three, four, five.

Then there's a relationship of one ridge between point 1--or rather between point 2 and point 3, both points going in the same general direction.

Point No. 3 is below point No. 2. Also the point No. 2 is what is referred to as a short ending ridge. We look over here and we see that point No. 2 is a short ending ridge.

Point No. 3 is below that. Then we notice that there is another point which is one point removed--one ridge removed--from point No. 3 which we have not charted, which shows up very definitely in that position there. Then there is point No. 4, which is another piece of a ridge, point No. 4 here.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Latona, when you testify in court do you generally discuss every marked point?

Mr. LATONA. No.

Mr. EISENBERG. Just the more salient points?

Mr. LATONA. Just to give a general idea as to how these comparisons are made, more or less for demonstration purposes, because the actual comparison is the same, the relationship is a determination of the relationship with the others, and just by an examination, that would be borne out if each and every point was gone into in detail.

Mr. EISENBERG. With you permission, Mr. Chairman, I would like to move on to the next chart since we do have witnesses waiting who have to return to New York.

Mr. DULLES. Right.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you prepare a chart, Mr. Latona, of the fingerprint----

Mr. LATONA. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Which was found on the carton 641?

Mr. LATONA. Here is the chart, which is of the right index fingerprint of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. EISENBERG. Was this prepared by you or under your supervision?

Mr. LATONA. They were. The enlargement here is approximately 10 times both in the inked print and in the latent print.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may I have this admitted as 647?

Mr. DULLES. It shall be admitted.

(The chart referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 647, and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. Would you discuss again just a few of the more salient points, Mr. Latona?

Mr. LATONA. Here, starting first of all with the apparent pattern type itself, it is readily discernible. You can see that these are what we term whorl-type prints. This point No. 1, for example, is a small ridge which terminates at this point which has been indicated by the figure No. 1.

It is related by being joined onto point No. 2, which is the end of the black line going upward. Then one ridge to the left, one ridge removed and to the left and a little bit above is point No. 3. Here the same thing occurs in the inked print.

Point No. 4 is related to point No. 3 by one ridge removed and is upward and one ridge to the left.

Mr. DULLES. And similarly you have identified up to 10 points of similarity?

Mr. LATONA. These you can see rather easily that they appear.

Mr. EISENBERG. If there are no further questions on the carton 641 I will move on to another exhibit.