Part 53

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir; I didn't have the investigation made, because I don't think I would be in the position to have it made. Mr. Sorrels or PRS or something like that could have. I asked, since we knew that there were these individuals, and an incident had occurred in the past; although no threat to the President was known, perhaps we had better at least try to find out if they were going to do anything, which is what I did.

Representative FORD. When you go on with responsibility to a particular community, do you normally inquire of groups of one kind or another that have a reputation for political activity of one sort or another?

Mr. LAWSON. Not for just political activity; no, sir.

Representative FORD. I meant political activity in the broader sense; not one political party versus another, but political extremist groups.

Mr. LAWSON. No, sir; usually, if there is going to be any picketing, an extremist group or something like that, it will come from the police sources or another Federal source. They will tell us that they have heard that certain individuals are going to hang signs from a window as we go by, or demonstrate, or something like that.

Representative FORD. Did you ask the Dallas police or any other local authorities if they knew of any individuals or groups that might be a threat to the President?

Mr. LAWSON. I knew that Special Agent Howlett had been in contact with them, both about the informants and going over to view the films. I did not, except when I saw this one piece of literature, and asked them if they knew anything about it.

Representative FORD. Did Special Agent Howlett report to you of what contacts he had made with the Dallas police or other local law-enforcement authorities on this point?

Mr. LAWSON. In generalities, yes, sir. He told me that he had seen an informant outside of the city of Dallas, and that this informant had been active in some of the movements; that he had quit because he was afraid, but to his knowledge there was nothing going to occur.

Representative FORD. Do you when you have this responsibility rely on somebody else to ask the local people, or do you ask the questions yourself of any groups that they know of or any individuals that they know of locally?

Mr. LAWSON. I believe it would depend on the circumstances. In this case I knew that Special Agent Howlett was in contact with them. At no time--you usually ask the police if they know of anything that is going to occur, but, as I said, just regular political groups, unless I know that they have anything to do with the President, I have never done so.

Mr. DULLES. Would that include the Fair Play for Cuba Committee or Communist groups or extreme rightist groups?

Mr. LAWSON. It would have up until that time; yes, sir.

Representative FORD. Certainly the Fair Play for Cuba Committee was one that took violent exception to this country's policies, and they were active in a number of communities, including New York, as I recall. It is my recollection that the President, prior to the assassination, had been to New York at a time that this organization was active. What I am trying to find out is, if the PRS doesn't provide you with information about an individual or an organization, is it your responsibility to actually make extra checks locally, based on your own knowledge or your own experience?

Mr. LAWSON. Well, I believe it would be my responsibility if I knew of any organization that did advocate the killing or the harming of the President.

Representative FORD. There was no specific information that you had in this case that the so-called rightwing extremist groups----

Mr. LAWSON. That is right.

Representative FORD. Had that in mind?

Mr. LAWSON. That is right; that is correct. It was also my understanding that, if anything was known about some of these other groups going to plan anything to embarrass the President or hurt the President, we would be notified by the people whose jurisdiction it is to look into those matters or who might have a little bit more knowledge about them than the Secret Service.

Representative FORD. When you got to Dallas, did you personally check with the local FBI office about any individuals or any groups?

Mr. LAWSON. No, sir; I did not. All the liaison either would be handled from the local SAC's office or through Washington.

Representative FORD. That would be between some Secret Service office----

Mr. LAWSON. Either Mr. Sorrel's office and the local FBI office or from our office to the FBI headquarters in Washington.

Representative FORD. In the ordinary course of events that information would be given to you?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir.

Representative FORD. In this case there was none?

Mr. LAWSON. I did find out that the police had sent over a couple of copies of these pamphlets, but that is the only information that I had of any liaison locally between the two.

Mr. DULLES. Are you referring to Commission Exhibit No. 770?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir; I am.

Mr. DULLES. Do you know what action was taken with respect to this pamphlet by the Dallas police?

Mr. LAWSON. No; I do not, subsequent to that time.

Mr. DULLES. How long before the President's visit to Dallas was this brought to your attention; do you remember?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes sir; Thursday afternoon.

Mr. DULLES. Thursday afternoon; Thursday before the Friday?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir.

Representative FORD. In this preliminary report dated November 19, which is Commission Exhibit 767, I notice there is no information in here about this extra effort that was made down there over and above the PRS.

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir.

Representative FORD. Is the format for this laid out in advance?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir; it is.

Representative FORD. Do they give you an opportunity to add anything to it if you want to or feel you should?

Mr. LAWSON. It could be; yes; I am sure it could.

Representative FORD. Was there any reason why you didn't indicate in this preliminary report what you had done in this regard?

Mr. LAWSON. No; that belongs in our PRS section of the report. If this had occurred in September or October, and this report as it is here now, the final report had been sent in early, that would have been in there.

Representative FORD. I don't understand that.

Mr. LAWSON. Approximately a month before the Dallas trip, we changed the reports, if there was time, of course, on all these. In Washington, D.C., for an on-the-record movement we have a report made up like this final one, only it isn't called final. It is a survey report, and it has everything in the introduction, PRS, and everything right in it, and then a supplemental report. For our out-of-town trips they had a preliminary survey report, and then a final survey report, so that if the report had been done in September, let's say, that would have been in it, because it is in the regular format under PRS. You put in under the PRS section anything containing any untoward incident, any information that you receive from PRS or anything that developed later.

Representative FORD. This report I have here, final survey report, Commission Exhibit 768, does include that information?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir; it does.

Representative FORD. Do you know whether or not Mr. Kellerman had this preliminary report prior to his departure for Dallas?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir; I prepared this Tuesday, late afternoon, and Tuesday evening, the 19th, and made arrangements to have it flown by airline to Washington, and then have an agent from the White House detail pick it up from the airplane, which is normal procedure both on the preliminary report, and when we use it to send the complete report ahead of time.

Then I called to make sure that it arrived, which it had.

Representative FORD. This was prior to Mr. Kellerman's departure with the President?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir; it had to be done that early because they were gone out of Washington the day before they got to me.

Representative FORD. Are your current regulations for preliminary report different now than they were at this time?

Mr. LAWSON. I believe for out-of-town trips we have a preliminary report and a final survey report.

Representative FORD. Is the current format any different now than it was November 19?

Mr. LAWSON. I don't believe so. Again, there are things that you can add here, certain stops; you might have a motorcade list and you might not, if there isn't any motorcade.

Representative FORD. I believe that is all. Do you want to proceed?

Mr. DULLES. I have one or two questions that were brought up by your own questions. Did you have any discussion with the Dallas police about General Walker's activities?

Mr. LAWSON. No; I did not, but I knew that he was in this rightwing group and that Special Agent Howlett was pursuing this.

Mr. DULLES. Was following its activities?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. DULLES. And he was one of your local----

Mr. LAWSON. He was the local agent.

Mr. DULLES. Agent in Dallas. This morning when Agent Bouck testified, he left with us some memoranda, Commission Exhibit 762, setting forth 10 cases which had been looked into by the Dallas office during the period October 25, 1961 to October 30, 1963.

I note that a good many of these cases are marked closed, but I wanted to ask whether the reports of these cases were brought to your attention either before you left or after you got to Dallas, or are you familiar with them?

Mr. LAWSON. I am not familiar with them, but if they are active cases, people that----

Mr. DULLES. In some cases it is stated, "Investigation completed." This particular case, CO2-34007, says:

"Investigation completed on December 12, 1963, by the Dallas office in Texas."

That means that this case at least was closed after the assassination. You don't recall that.

This is a report from a student at the university about a subject that made derogatory remarks against the President. You don't recall that case having been brought to your attention?

Mr. LAWSON. I know that Special Agent Howlett told me. I believe this might be connected with one of those informant things outside of Dallas that I was speaking about, but I don't know this--I know it was Texas. Whether this is the same one or not I don't know. But I would only have knowledge of something that was brought to their attention that the President's life was threatened, and I was given no information that such had occurred.

Mr. DULLES. And so you don't recall any of these 10 or 9 other cases here? A good many of them are noted as closed. That situation would not be brought to your attention?

Mr. LAWSON. No; they would not.

Mr. DULLES. Would not?

Mr. LAWSON. No.

Mr. DULLES. In some cases it is noted, "Subsequent activity none." It is stated, "Periodic checkups were not deemed necessary. Prosecution was declined."

This was the case of a remark made by a gentleman at a bridge party. You don't recall that case?

Mr. LAWSON. No, sir; I wouldn't have any occasion to know what cases have come into PRS.

Mr. DULLES. Even if they related to Dallas?

Mr. LAWSON. Only if they related to Dallas, and I have been told that these individuals were in the active file, it was an open case, and that we should be watchful of this particular individual, but I was given none of this information.

Mr. DULLES. In your case when you left Washington you weren't given any cases that you considered dangerous in the Dallas area?

Mr. LAWSON. No, sir.

Representative FORD. When they do give you the name and the case of an individual such as in the instance of Buffalo, what do you get? What is given to you, I mean?

Mr. LAWSON. You are given the name and the number of the case, and then there is a file in Buffalo just like there is a file in Washington, and you can review that file there, and depending on the circumstances you would again have the person followed, or try something to keep him away from the President.

Mr. DULLES. I see. You are simply given the name and the file number.

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. DULLES. Of the individuals?

Mr. LAWSON. You might be given some other information, like what it concerns, but I mean you wouldn't sit down and read the whole thing because you could get that in the Buffalo office or wherever.

Mr. DULLES. What would have been your normal practice so far as you can judge if you had been informed that a man, an American had defected to the Soviet Union and had returned to the United States and was living in Dallas and was working in the Texas School Book Depository, would that have been sufficient cause alone to cause you to make an investigation or report it to the Dallas police?

Mr. LAWSON. If I had had that information--again this is supposition.

Mr. DULLES. I realize that.

Mr. LAWSON. But I probably would have asked advice on it from either the PRS section or the White House detail ahead of it; yes, sir.

Mr. DULLES. Supplementing a point that was raised earlier, I find that President Kennedy's visit to Texas was reported in the Dallas Morning News as early as September 26, 1963, and the pertinent sections of this press report--it is headed, "Kennedy to Visit Texas November 21-22," and there is also included in the heading, "Dallas Included." The first two paragraphs of this story reported from Jackson Hole, Wyo., that area, where the President was then on a visit:

"White House sources told Dallas News exclusively Wednesday night that President Kennedy will visit Texas November 21 and 22.

"The visit will embrace major cities of the State including Dallas."

That is just to check on the point of the date when it was first published. So it was published sometime before you were notified of your assignment.

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir; I was doing the Billings advance. He left Billings to go to Jackson Hole, Wyo., and then returned the next morning again to Billings.

Mr. DULLES. You don't recall having heard that though?

Mr. LAWSON. No.

Mr. DULLES. In connection with your work with the President's party on that trip?

Mr. LAWSON. No.

Representative FORD. Will you proceed, Mr. Stern?

Mr. STERN. To conclude the advance work, Mr. Lawson, would you describe the advance work for the Dallas visit as the same as or different from typical advance preparations for a trip of this nature?

Mr. LAWSON. I don't know if that is too general, but I would say that it was quite a typical trip.

I tried to do everything I could think of to make the advance run smooth, and this trip work all right.

Mr. STERN. The length of time you spent doing the advance, the contacts you had, the time spent by other people, this was typical of this kind of trip?

Mr. LAWSON. Sometimes you go out earlier than other times. Actually this was out just a little bit earlier than usual.

An average, if you have to give an average, I would say you are out about 7 days ahead of time. But like I say, some fellows left this morning for a trip tomorrow.

Mr. STERN. Now on the period up to November 22, as I said before, we will rely substantially on what is in your memorandum. If there is anything now that you would like to add or correct in the statements you have made there, anything you would like to add to your testimony so far today before this Commission, will you do so?

Mr. LAWSON. I can't recall any.

Mr. STERN. I would like to move then to the actual events of November 22. I show you first a two-page document marked for identification Commission Exhibit 771. Can you identify that?

Mr. LAWSON. I can.

Mr. STERN. Will you tell us what it is and why it was prepared?

Mr. LAWSON. It was a statement prepared by me on request of inspectors in the chief's office as to my knowledge of the event of the shooting of President Kennedy itself, and I prepared this the day after I returned from Dallas, which was the 23d of November.

Mr. STERN. I now show you a five-page memorandum marked for identification Commission Exhibit 772. Could you identify that for us and tell us how it was prepared?

Mr. LAWSON. This is a statement that I gave about as many of my activities, official activities concerning the President's visit the whole day of November 22, and until I returned to Washington early on the morning of November 23, as I could.

Mr. STERN. Mr. Chairman, may these be admitted?

Representative FORD. They may be.

(The documents marked Commission Exhibits Nos. 771 and 772 for identification were received in evidence.)

Mr. STERN. So that 772, the memorandum prepared on December 1 would include everything that you put in your memorandum of November 23 which was done immediately upon your return?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes.

Mr. STERN. Turning to your memorandum of December 1, Commission Exhibit 772, it mentions on page 1 discussion of weather conditions and the decision whether or not to use the bubble-top on the Presidential automobile. Could you expand on that for us and tell us what happened?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir; it was quite rainy early in the morning of the 22d in Dallas, and I received a phone call from the Assistant Agent in Charge Mr. Kellerman, who was in Fort Worth with the President, asking about weather conditions in Dallas, and what they probably would be, and discussing whether to use the bubble-top on the President's car or not. I was told the bubble-top was to be on if it was raining, and it was to be off if it was not raining.

Mr. STERN. And then what happened? Did the weather clear?

Mr. LAWSON. The weather cleared quite fast. I can't recall now. It was approximately an hour or 45 minutes before the President was scheduled to arrive, and we had purposely put off changing the top until the last minute when we could find out what the weather was going to be.

But it cleared and the weather became quite sunny all of a sudden. Also I received a phone call from Fort Worth from Agent Hill, who was assigned to Mrs. Kennedy, asking what the weather was and whether the top would be on or not. I suppose that was so he could let her know whether she had to wear a hat or something because of the weather.

I told him that it looked like it was starting to clear, but we still had not made up our minds whether to have the bubble-top on or off at the point of his call. But I told him if it was raining it would be on, and if it was clear it would be off.

Mr. STERN. Were you involved in the final decision respecting the bubble-top?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir; the weather was clear so I told them to have it off.

Mr. STERN. Then from your memorandum you visited, early on the morning of November 22, the Trade Mart?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. STERN. And checked the final arrangements there, returned to Love Field, checked the final arrangements there?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes.

Mr. STERN. The President arrived. You might tell us a bit about the reception and the President's greeting the crowd.

Mr. LAWSON. Yes. The press plane came in. It was the first plane in, and some agents that were on the press plane that were coming in early were sent to their respective posts at the Trade Mart.

The traveling press that comes with the President were shown the press area, were shown where the plane would be, and so forth, told a little bit about the arrangements there.

The transportation staff and people from the White House press office were told a little bit more in detail about what would happen at Love Field, and the motorcade, and the press arrangements down at the Trade Mart.

Ordinarily you need to provide transportation to the function for the Presidential Seal, the flags, heavy sound equipment that comes on the press plane and all that, and it was arranged for station wagons and trucks to take that.

But they told me upon arrival that they had sent these direct to Fort Worth since it was so close and that we didn't need those. Shortly after this, the Vice President's plane arrived, and I went out to greet it with the agent from the Vice Presidential detail, and showing people where to go if they wanted to get in their cars, and telling them where the President's plane would be, and making myself useful to the people coming off the Vice Presidential plane.

While it was stopping, the Presidential plane was landing and taxiing over, so that they went practically directly from their plane, those people who wanted to greet the Presidential plane, to the rear ramp, where he would be arriving. The President's plane stopped and the greeting committee and the Vice President and Mrs. Johnson and any of those people on the plane that had wanted to greet the President, local Congressmen, et cetera, were over at the President's rear ramp and then I was at the rear ramp across from the greeting committee and the other dignitaries when he arrived.

He went through the greeting committee. I was on his left, the opposite side of the greeting committee, and the other dignitaries. He walked toward the fence. At that time I made sure that the motorcade was all ready to go, and the drivers were in their cars, and told people that were in the motorcade to please get in their cars because as soon as the President was ready, and we didn't know if that would be 1 minute or 10, and as soon as he was in the car, why they would go.

And gave instructions for moving the press ropes out of the press area, because of the tightness there. We had to move part of the press area before our motorcade could drive by. And in general doing all of these little last-minute things.

Then went over to the fence and went along with the President, watching the crowd and talking to a few of the agents on some of their responsibilities, and went to look to see if the lead cars and the other police cars were about ready to go, and saw that the President was not yet, so went back to him, and then got him to his car and ran for my lead car and the motorcade proceeded from the airplane.

Mr. STERN. Is it typical that the advance agent rides in the lead car?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. STERN. Why is that?

Mr. LAWSON. I suppose for various reasons. No. 1, the Presidential driver, although you might have given him a route or all that, he wouldn't really be familiar probably with the streets and all that, and this is the car that has the command police officials in it, and the Secret Service agent that knows the most about the start.

So in any emergency situation the Presidential car will follow that lead car if possible unless told otherwise. It is the best place for an agent, and also he controls the motorcade speed, and so forth, from there.

Mr. STERN. Was there anything unusual in the motorcade until you got to Main and Houston?

Mr. LAWSON. Not unusual. There were crowds along the way, sometimes heavier than others in about the spots that it was expected to be that way.

Mr. STERN. What was your impression of the attitude of the crowd generally?

Mr. LAWSON. It looked quite friendly, not as hopping and skipping as much as some other places, but very friendly and sometimes people just jumped up and down and screamed and yelled. This one seemed to be a quite friendly group by and large.

On one occasion I noticed a sign, I can't recall what it is right now, but it was an out-of-the-ordinary sign, a sign designed to catch someone's attention, and I thought right then that probably it would catch the President's attention if he was looking to the right-hand side of the car, which he was, and he stopped there, which is not unusual.

Sometimes he would stop for certain groups, certain types of people at certain places unannounced, if there was something that caught his fancy or caught his eye, and he did there. And of course the crowd pressed around, and the other agents got off the followup car, got around his car.

Mr. Kellerman got out. I was a little bit more ahead than I had been. We back up, stopped the motor car, told everybody by radio what was happening, the other police that we were stopped. Before I was out of the car to give any assistance, why we were moving again.