Part 22

Dr. SHAW. Yes. The wound of exit was beneath and medial to the nipple. Here was this =V= that I was indicating. It is almost opposite that. At the time of the wound there was a ragged oval hole here at least 5 centimeters in diameter, but the skin edges were excised, and here again this scar does not look quite as nice as it does during the more lateral portion of the surgically induced incision, because this skin was brought together under a little tension, and there is a little separation there.

Mr. SPECTER. Will you describe the entire scar there, Doctor, for the record, please?

Dr. SHAW. Yes. The entire surgical incision runs from the anterior portion of the chest just lateral to the, we call it, the condral arch, the =V= formed by the condral arch, and then extends laterally below the nipple, running up, curving up, into the posterior axillary portion or the posterior lateral wall of the chest.

Mr. SPECTER. What is the total length of the scar, Doctor?

Dr. SHAW. Twenty centimeters, about.

Mr. DULLES. Where was the center of the bullet wound itself in that scar about?

Dr. SHAW. Here.

Mr. DULLES. There?

Dr. SHAW. Yes. All of the rest of this incision was necessary to gain access to the depths of the wound for the debridement, for removing all of the destroyed tissue because of the passage of the bullet.

Mr. DULLES. Would you give us in your hand the area of declination from the entry to the----

Dr. SHAW. This way.

Mr. DULLES. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Can you estimate that angle for us, Doctor?

Dr. SHAW. We are talking about the angle now, of course, with the horizontal, and I would say--you don't have a caliper there, do you?

Dr. GREGORY. Yes.

Dr. SHAW. I was going to guess somewhere between 25° and 30°.

Mr. DULLES. Sorry to ask these questions.

Governor CONNALLY. That is fine. I think it is an excellent question.

Dr. SHAW. Well, this puts it right at 25°.

Mr. SPECTER. That is the angle then of elevation as you are measuring it?

Dr. SHAW. Measuring from back to front, it is the elevation of the posterior wound over the anterior wound.

The CHAIRMAN. The course being downward back to front?

Dr. SHAW. Yes.

Governor CONNALLY. Back to front.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Dr. SHAW. At the time of the initial examination, as I described, this portion of the Governor's chest was mobile, it was moving in and out because of the softening of the chest, and that was the reason I didn't want the skin incision to be directly over that, because to get better healing it is better to have a firm pad of tissue rather than having the incision directly over the softened area.

Mr. DULLES. Doctor, would the angle be the same if the Governor were seated now the way he was in the chair?

Dr. SHAW. That is a good question. Of course, we don't know exactly whether he was back or tipped forward. But I don't think there is going to be much difference.

Mr. DULLES. Were you seated in about that way, Governor?

Governor CONNALLY. Mr. Dulles, I would say I was in about this position when I was hit, with my face approximately looking toward you, 20° off of center.

Dr. SHAW. Yes; I got 27°. That didn't make much difference.

Mr. SPECTER. Is that reading taken then while the Governor is in a seated position, Doctor?

Dr. SHAW. Yes, seated; yes.

Representative BOGGS. May I ask a question? How would his hand have been under those circumstances, Doctor, for the bullet to hit his wrist?

Dr. GREGORY. I think it fits very well, really, remembering at the other end the trajectory is right here, and there would be no problem to pose his hands in that fashion, and if you will note, you can see it best from over here really, because you did see that the point of entry, and you can visualize his thigh, there is no problem to visualize the trajectory.

Mr. DULLES. Would you be naturally holding your hand in that position?

Dr. GREGORY. It could be any place.

Governor CONNALLY. It could be anywhere on that line, Mr. Dulles.

Mr. Chief Justice, you see this is the leg.

Dr. SHAW. Of course, the wound is much smaller than this.

Mr. SPECTER. Let the record show the Governor has displayed the left thigh showing the scar caused by the entry of the missile in the left thigh.

Dr. Gregory, will you describe the locale of that?

Dr. GREGORY. Yes. This scar, excisional scar, is a better term, if I may just interject that----

Mr. SPECTER. Please do.

Dr. GREGORY. The excisional scar to the Governor's thigh is located at a point approximately 10 or 12 centimeters above the adductor tubercule of the femur, placing it at the juncture of the middle and distal third of his thigh.

Mr. SPECTER. In lay language, Doctor, about how far is that up from the knee area?

Dr. GREGORY. Five inches, 6 inches.

Mr. SPECTER. Governor Connally, can you recreate the position that you were sitting in in the automobile, as best you can recollect, at the time you think you were struck?

Governor CONNALLY. I think, having turned to look over my right shoulder, then revolving to look over my left shoulder, I threw my right wrist over on my left leg.

Mr. SPECTER. And in the position you are seated now, with your right wrist on your left leg, with your little finger being an inch or two from your knee?

Governor CONNALLY. From the knee.

Mr. SPECTER. And, Dr. Gregory, would that be in approximate alignment which has been characterized on Commission Exhibit----

Dr. GREGORY. I think it fits reasonably well; yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. In a moment here I can get that exhibit.

Mr. DULLES. May I ask a question in the meantime?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes, sir.

Mr. DULLES. You turned to the right, as I recall your testimony, because you heard the sound coming from the right?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes, sir.

Mr. DULLES. How did you happen to turn then to the left, do you remember why that was?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes, sir; I know exactly. I turned to the right both to see, because it was an instinctive movement, because that is where the sound came from, but even more important, I immediately thought it was a rifleshot, I immediately thought of an assassination attempt, and I turned to see if I could see the President, to see if he was all right. Failing to see him over my right shoulder, I turned to look over my left shoulder.

Mr. DULLES. I see.

Governor CONNALLY. Into the back seat, and I never completed that turn. I got no more than substantially looking forward, a little bit to the left of forward, when I got hit.

Representative BOGGS. May I ask one of the doctors a question? What is the incidence of recovery from a wound of this type?

Dr. GREGORY. I will defer the answer to Dr. Shaw. From the wrist, excellent so far as recovery is concerned. Functionally, recovery is going to be good, too, and Dr. Shaw can take on the other one.

Dr. SHAW. We never had any doubt about the Governor's recovery. We knew what we had to do and we felt he could recover. I think I indicated that to Mrs. Connally.

Governor CONNALLY. As soon as you got into the chest and found out what it was.

Representative BOGGS. But, there was a very serious wound, was there not, Doctor?

Dr. SHAW. Yes. It was both a shocking and painful wound, and the effects of the wound, the immediate effects of the wound, were very dangerous as far as Governor Connally was concerned, because he had what we call a sucking wound of the chest. This would not allow him to breathe. I think instinctively what happened, while he was riding in the car on the way to the hospital, he probably had his arm across, and he may have instinctively closed that sucking area to some extent. But they had to immediately put an occlusive dressing on it as soon as he got inside to keep him from sucking air in and out of the right chest.

Representative BOGGS. Had hospitalization been delayed for about another half hour or so----

Dr. SHAW. That is speculation, but I don't think he could have maintained breathing, sufficient breathing, for a half hour with that type of wound. It is a little speculation. It would depend on how well he could protect himself. We have had instances where by putting their jackets around them like this, they could occlude this, and go for a considerable period of time. Airmen during the war instinctively protected themselves in this way.

Representative BOGGS. You have no doubt about his physical ability to serve as Governor?

Dr. SHAW. None whatever. [Laughter.]

Senator COOPER. I am just trying to remember whether we asked you, Doctor, if you probed the wound in the thigh to see how deep it was.

Dr. GREGORY. I did not, Senator. Dr. Tom Shires at our institution attended that wound, and I have his description to go on, what he found, what he had written, and his description is that it did not penetrate the thigh very deeply, just to the muscle, but not beyond that.

Representative BOGGS. Just one other question of the Doctor. Having looked at the wound, there is no doubt in either of your minds that that bullet came from the rear, is there?

Dr. GREGORY. There has never been any doubt in my mind about the origin of the missile; no.

Representative BOGGS. And in yours?

Dr. SHAW. No.

Mr. SPECTER. Governor Connally, this is the exhibit which I was referring to, being 689. Was that your approximate position except--that is the alinement with your right hand being on your left leg as you have just described?

Governor CONNALLY. No; it looks like my right hand is up on my chest. But I don't know. I can't say with any degree of certainty where my right hand was, frankly.

Mr. SPECTER. Governor Connally----

Governor CONNALLY. It could have been up on my chest, it could have been suspended in the air, it could have been down on my leg, it could have been anywhere. I just don't remember.

I obviously, I suppose, like anyone else, wound up the next day realizing I was hit in three places, and I was not conscious of having been hit but by one bullet, so I tried to reconstruct how I could have been hit in three places by the same bullet, and I merely, I know it penetrated from the back through the chest first.

I assumed that I had turned as I described a moment ago, placing my right hand on my left leg, that it hit my wrist, went out the center of the wrist, the underside, and then into my leg, but it might not have happened that way at all.

Mr. SPECTER. Were your knees higher on the jump seat than they would be on a normal chair such as you are sitting on?

Governor CONNALLY. I would say it was not unlike this, with the exception the knees might be slightly higher, perhaps a half an inch to an inch higher.

Mr. DULLES. In this photograph you happen to have your right arm on the side of the car. I don't know whether you recall that. That is Commission Exhibit 698. That just happened to be one pose at one particular time?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes; I don't think there is any question, Mr. Dulles, at various times we were turned in every direction. We had arms extended out of the car, on the side.

Mr. DULLES. That was taken earlier, I believe. Was that on Main Street? Where was that taken?

Representative BOGGS. I wonder if I might ask a question?

The CHAIRMAN. Go right ahead.

Representative BOGGS. This is a little bit off the subject, but it is pretty well established that the Governor was shot and he has recovered. Do you have any reason to believe there was any conspiracy afoot for somebody to assassinate you?

Governor CONNALLY. None whatever.

Representative BOGGS. Had you ever received any threat from Lee Harvey Oswald of any kind?

Governor CONNALLY. No.

Representative BOGGS. Did you know him?

Governor CONNALLY. No.

Representative BOGGS. Had you ever seen him?

Governor CONNALLY. No.

Representative BOGGS. Have you ever had any belief of, subsequent to the assassination of President Kennedy and your own injury, that there was a conspiracy here of any kind?

Governor CONNALLY. None whatever.

Representative BOGGS. What is your theory about what happened?

Governor CONNALLY. Well, it is pure theory based on nothing more than what information is available to everyone, and probably less is available to me, certainly less than is available to you here on this Commission.

But I think you had an individual here with a completely warped, demented mind who, for whatever reason, wanted to do two things: First, to vent his anger, his hate, against many people and many things in a dramatic fashion that would carve for him, in however infamous a fashion, a niche in the history books of this country. And I think he deliberately set out to do just what he did, and that is the only thing that I can think of.

You ask me my theory, and that is my theory, and certainly not substantiated by any facts.

Representative BOGGS. Going on again, Governor, and again using the word "theory," do you have any reason to believe that there was any connection between Oswald and Ruby?

Governor CONNALLY. I have no reason to believe that there was; no, Congressman. By the same token, if you ask me do I have any reason not to believe it, I would have to answer the same, I don't know.

Representative BOGGS. Yes.

Governor CONNALLY. I just don't have any knowledge or any information about the background of either, and I am just not in a position to say.

Mr. DULLES. You recall your correspondence with Oswald in connection with Marine matters, when he thought you were still Secretary of the Navy?

Governor CONNALLY. After this was all over, I do, Mr. Dulles. As I recall, he wrote me a letter asking that his dishonorable discharge be corrected. But at the time he wrote the letter, if he had any reason about it at all, or shortly thereafter, he would have recognized that I had resigned as Secretary of the Navy a month before I got the letter, so it would really take a peculiar mind, it seems to me, to harbor any grudge as a result of that when I had resigned as Secretary prior to the receipt of the letter.

Mr. DULLES. I think I can say without violating any confidence, that there is nothing in the record to indicate that there was--in fact, Marina, the wife, testified, in fact, to the contrary. There was no animus against you on the part of Oswald, as you----

Governor CONNALLY. I have wondered, of course, in my own mind as to whether or not there could have conceivably been anything, and the only--I suppose like any person at that particular moment, I represented authority to him. Perhaps he was in a rebellious spirit enough to where I was as much a target as anyone else. But that is the only conceivable basis on which I can assume that he was deliberately trying to hit me.

Representative BOGGS. You have no doubt about the fact that he was deliberately trying to hit you?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes, I do; I do have doubt, Congressman. I am not at all sure he was shooting at me. I think I could with some logic argue either way. The logic in favor of him, of the position that he was shooting at me, is simply borne out by the fact that the man fired three shots, and he hit each of the three times he fired. He obviously was a pretty good marksman, so you have to assume to some extent at least that he was hitting what he was shooting at.

On the other hand, I think I could argue with equal logic that obviously his prime target, and I think really his sole target, was President Kennedy. His first shot, at least to him, he could not have but known the effect that it might have on the President. His second shot showed that he had clearly missed the President, and his result to him, as the result of the first shot, the President slumped and changed his position in the back seat just enough to expose my back. I haven't seen all of the various positions, but again I think from where he was shooting I was in the direct line of fire immediately in front of the President, so any movement on the part of the President would expose me.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you seen the moving pictures, Governor?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes, sir; I have, Mr. Chief Justice.

Mr. SPECTER. Was there any point of exit on your thigh wound?

Governor CONNALLY. No.

Mr. SPECTER. (to Dr. Gregory.) Would you give the precise condition of the right wrist, and cover the thigh, too?

Dr. GREGORY. The present state of the wound on his wrist indicates that the linear scar made in the course of the excision is well healed; that its upper limb is about----

Governor CONNALLY. I thinks he wants you to describe the position of it.

Mr. SPECTER. Yes; the position.

Dr. GREGORY. I was about to do that. The upper limb of it is about 5 centimeters above the wrist joint, and curves around toward the thumb distally to about a centimeter above the wrist joint.

Mr. SPECTER. What is the total length of that?

Dr. GREGORY. The length of that excisional scar is about 4 centimeters, an inch and a half.

Mr. SPECTER. What is the wound appearing to be on the palmer side?

Dr. GREGORY. The wound on the palmer side of the wrist is now converted to a well-healed linear scar approximately one-half inch in length, and located about three-quarters of an inch above the distal flexion crease.

Representative BOGGS. What is the prognosis for complete return of function there?

Dr. GREGORY. Very good, Congressman; very good.

Mr. SPECTER. Governor Connally, I now show you the black jacket and ask you if you can identify what that jacket is, whose it is?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes, sir; that is mine.

Mr. SPECTER. When did you last wear that jacket?

Governor CONNALLY. On November 22 I was wearing this, the day of the shooting.

Mr. SPECTER. I show you Commission Exhibit 683 and ask you if that is a photograph of the front side of the jacket, as it appears at the moment?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes; it is.

Mr. SPECTER. I show you Exhibit 684, and ask if that is a photograph of the rear side of the jacket?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes, sir; it is.

Mr. SPECTER. I now show you a shirt and ask you if you can identify this as having been the shirt you wore on the day of the assassination?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes, sir; that is the shirt I had on.

Mr. SPECTER. I show you Exhibit 685 and ask if that is a picture of the rear side of the shirt?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes; it is.

Mr. SPECTER. Exhibit 686 is shown to you, and I ask you if that is a photograph of the front side of the shirt?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes, sir; it is.

Mr. SPECTER. I show you a pair of black trousers and ask you if you can identify them?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes, sir; these are the trousers to the coat we looked at a moment ago. They were the trousers I was wearing on the day of the shooting.

Mr. SPECTER. I show you a photograph and ask you, which is Exhibit 687, if that is a photograph of the front of the trousers?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes, sir; it is.

Mr. SPECTER. I show you Exhibit 688 and ask you if that depicts the rear of the trousers?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes, sir; it does.

Mr. SPECTER. I show you a tie, and ask you if you can identify that?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes, sir; that is the tie I was wearing on the day of the shooting.

Mr. SPECTER. I now show you a photograph marked Commission Exhibit 700 and ask if that is a picture of the tie?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes, sir; it is.

Mr. SPECTER. What is the permanent home of these clothes at the present time when they are not on Commission business?

Governor CONNALLY. They, the Archives of the State of Texas, asked for the clothing, and I have given the clothing to them. That is where they were sent from, I believe, here, to this Commission.

Mr. SPECTER. At this juncture, Mr. Chief Justice, I move for the admission in evidence of Commission Exhibits 699 and 700.

The CHAIRMAN. They may be admitted.

(The items marked Commission Exhibits 699 and 700 for identification were received in evidence.)

Mr. SPECTER. Governor Connally, in 1963 we were informed that Lee Harvey Oswald paid a visit to Austin. Tex., and is supposed to also have visited your office. Do you have any knowledge of such a visit?

Governor CONNALLY. No, sir.

Mr. DULLES. What date did you give?

Mr. SPECTER. 1963.

Representative BOGGS. What date in 1963?

Mr. SPECTER. We do not have the exact date on that.

Representative BOGGS. Excuse me just a minute. Would your office records indicate such a visit?

Governor CONNALLY. It might or might not, Congressman. We have----

Representative BOGGS. That is what I would think.

Governor CONNALLY. We have there a reception room that is open from about 9:30 to 12 and from 2 to 4 every day, and depending on the time of the year there are literally hundreds of people who come in there. There would be as high as 80 at a time that come in groups, and a tour--this is a very large reception room which, frankly, we can't use for any other purpose because it is so useful for tourists, and they literally come in by the hundreds, and some days we will have a thousand people in that room on any given day. So for me to say he never was in there, I couldn't do that; and he might well have been there, and no record of it in the office.

We make no attempt to keep a record of all the people who come in. If they come in small groups or if they have appointments with me, or one of my assistants, yes, we do. We keep records of people who come in and want to leave a card or leave word that they dropped by. But I have no knowledge that he ever came by.

Mr. SPECTER. Governor Connally, on your recitation of the events on the day of the assassination, you had come to the point where the shooting was concluded and the automobile had started to accelerate toward the hospital. What recollection do you have, if any, of the events on the way to the hospital from the assassination scene?

Governor CONNALLY. None really. I think at that point I had lost consciousness because I don't have any recollection, Mr. Specter, of anything that occurred on the way to the hospital. It was a very short period of time, but I don't remember it.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you have any recollection of your arrival at the hospital itself, at the Parkland Hospital?

Governor CONNALLY. Yes. I think when the car stopped the driver was obviously driving at a very rapid rate of speed, and apparently, as he threw on the brakes of the car, it brought me back to consciousness.

Again, a strange thing--strange things run through your mind and, perhaps, not so strange under the circumstances, but I immediately--the only thought that occurred to me was that I was in the jump seat next to the door, that everyone concerned, was going to be concerned with the President; that I had to get out of the way so they could get to the President. So although I was reclining, and again Mrs. Connally holding me, I suddenly lurched out of her arms and tried to stand upright to get myself out of the car.

I got--I don't really know how far I got. They tell me I got almost upright, and then just collapsed again, and someone then picked me up and put me on a stretcher. I again was very conscious because this was the first time that I had any real sensation of pain, and at this point the pain in the chest was excruciating, and I kept repeating just over and over, "My God, it hurts, it hurts," and it was hurting, it was excruciating at that point.

I was conscious then off and on during the time I was in the emergency room. I don't recall that I remember everything, but I remember quite a bit. I remember being wheeled down the passageway, I remember doctors and various people talking in the emergency room. I remember them asking me a number of questions, too, which I answered, but that was about it.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you know whether there was any bullet, or bullet fragments, that remained in your body or in your clothing as you were placed on the emergency stretcher at Parkland Hospital?

Governor CONNALLY. No.