Part 43

Mr. BALL. Where were you born, Mrs. Markham?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Where was I born? Dallas.

Mr. BALL. The Commission would like to know something of your past life and experience, where you were born and your education so I will just ask you a few questions like that.

Take it easy, this is just----

Mrs. MARKHAM. I am very shook up.

Mr. BALL. This is a very informal little conference here.

Mrs. MARKHAM. Well, do you want me to tell you about my life?

Mr. BALL. Yes. Just tell us briefly where you were born and where you went to school and things of that kind.

Mrs. MARKHAM. I was born in Dallas, Dallas County. My father was a farmer. I was very small when my mother died, I was 6 years old; and my brothers and I were separated which they were put in the State orphans home, and I went to live with my aunt.

Mr. DULLES. Are your brothers older or younger?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I have one older than I. And I went to live with my aunt and uncle in Grand Prairie. I went to Grand Prairie school.

Mr. BALL. How far did you go through school?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Eighth grade.

Mr. BALL. Then did you go to work?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No; I got married. I got married.

Mr. BALL. How long were you married?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Me----

Mr. BALL. I understand you are not married at the present time?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No. I am not married. I would have been married 25 years this past July.

Mr. BALL. Were you a housewife for a while while you were married?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes; I was.

Mr. BALL. How many years?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Let me see, about 8 years.

Mr. BALL. Did you have any children?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, I did.

Mr. BALL. How many children did you have?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Well, I have five children.

Mr. BALL. Do they live with you now or what?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I have one son who stays with me.

Mr. BALL. What has been your work most of your life since you were divorced, what kind of work have you done?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Waitress work.

Mr. BALL. You have done waitress work?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Where do you work now?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Eat Well Restaurant, 1404 Main Street, Dallas, Tex.

Mr. BALL. Were you working there on November 22, 1963?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I was.

Mr. BALL. What hours did you work?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I was due at work from 2:30 in the evening until 10:30 at night.

Mr. BALL. Straight shift?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did you leave your home some time that morning to go to work?

Mrs. MARKHAM. That evening?

Mr. BALL. Morning.

Mrs. MARKHAM. That morning?

Mr. BALL. You left your home to go to work at some time, didn't you, that day?

Mrs. MARKHAM. At one.

Mr. BALL. One o'clock?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I believe it was a little after 1.

Mr. BALL. Where did you intend to catch the bus?

Mrs. MARKHAM. On Patton and Jefferson.

Mr. BALL. Patton and Jefferson is about a block south of Patton and 10th Street, isn't it?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I think so.

Mr. BALL. Well, where is your home from Patton and Jefferson?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I had came--I come one block, I had come one block from my home.

Mr. BALL. You were walking, were you?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I came from 9th to the corner of 10th Street.

Mr. BALL. And you were walking toward Jefferson?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Tenth Street runs the same direction as Jefferson, doesn't it?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. It runs in a generally east and west direction?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. And Patton runs north and south?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir; up and down this way.

Mr. BALL. So you were walking south toward Jefferson?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. You think it was a little after 1?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I wouldn't be afraid to bet it wasn't 6 or 7 minutes after 1.

Mr. BALL. You know what time you usually get your bus, don't you?

Mrs. MARKHAM. 1:15.

Mr. BALL. So it was before 1:15?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, it was.

Mr. BALL. When you came to the corner of Patton and 10th Street--first of all, what side of the street were you walking on?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Now you have got me mixed up on all my streets. I was on the opposite of where this man was.

Mr. BALL. Well, you were walking along the street----

Mrs. MARKHAM. On the street.

Mr. BALL. On Patton, you were going toward Jefferson?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. And you were on the right- or left-hand side of the street as you were walking south?

Mrs. MARKHAM. That would be on the left.

Mr. BALL. Your right.

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, it would be right.

Mr. BALL. Right-hand side, wouldn't it? When you came to the corner did you have to stop before you crossed 10th Street?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, I did.

Mr. BALL. Why?

Mrs. MARKHAM. On account the traffic was coming.

Mr. BALL. And you stopped there on the corner?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. That would be the northwest corner, wouldn't it?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Northwest corner.

Mr. BALL. Is that right?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I believe it is. I believe it is the northwest corner.

Mr. BALL. Did you see any man walking at that time?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes; I seen this man on the opposite side, across the street from me. He was almost across Patton Street.

Mr. BALL. Almost across Patton?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Walking in what direction?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I guess this would be south.

Mr. BALL. Along 10th, east? Was it along 10th?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Walking away from you, wasn't he?

Mrs. MARKHAM. He was walking up 10th, away from me.

Mr. BALL. To your left?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Well, he was on the opposite side of the street to me like that.

Mr. BALL. Had he reached the curb yet?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Almost ready to get up on the curb.

Mr. BALL. What did you notice then?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Well, I noticed a police car coming.

Mr. BALL. Where was the police car when you first saw it?

Mrs. MARKHAM. He was driving real slow, almost up to this man, well, say this man, and he kept, this man kept walking, you know, and the police car going real slow now, real slow, and they just kept coming into the curb, and finally they got way up there a little ways up, well, it stopped.

Mr. BALL. The police car stopped?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. What about the man? Was he still walking?

Mrs. MARKHAM. The man stopped.

Mr. BALL. Then what did you see the man do?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I saw the man come over to the car very slow, leaned and put his arms just like this, he leaned over in this window and looked in this window.

Mr. BALL. He put his arms on the window ledge?

Mrs. MARKHAM. The window was down.

Mr. BALL. It was?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Put his arms on the window ledge?

Mrs. MARKHAM. On the ledge of the window.

Mr. BALL. And the policeman was sitting where?

Mrs. MARKHAM. On the driver's side.

Mr. BALL. He was sitting behind the wheel?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Was he alone in the car?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Then what happened?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Well, I didn't think nothing about it; you know, the police are nice and friendly, and I thought friendly conversation. Well, I looked, and there were cars coming, so I had to wait. Well, in a few minutes this man made----

Mr. BALL. What did you see the policeman do?

Mrs. MARKHAM. See the policeman? Well, this man, like I told you, put his arms up, leaned over, he--just a minute, and he drew back and he stepped back about two steps. Mr. Tippit----

Mr. BALL. The policeman?

Mrs. MARKHAM. The policeman calmly opened the car door, very slowly, wasn't angry or nothing, he calmly crawled out of this car, and I still just thought a friendly conversation, maybe disturbance in the house, I did not know; well, just as the policeman got in----

Mr. BALL. Which way did he walk?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Towards the front of the car. And just as he had gotten even with the wheel on the driver's side----

Mr. BALL. You mean the left front wheel?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes; this man shot the policeman.

Mr. BALL. You heard the shots, did you?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. How many shots did you hear?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Three.

Mr. BALL. What did you see the policeman do?

Mrs. MARKHAM. He fell to the ground, and his cap went a little ways out on the street.

Mr. BALL. What did the man do?

Mrs. MARKHAM. The man, he just walked calmly, fooling with his gun.

Mr. BALL. Toward what direction did he walk?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Come back towards me, turned around, and went back.

Mr. BALL. Toward Patton?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir; towards Patton. He didn't run. It just didn't scare him to death. He didn't run. When he saw me he looked at me, stared at me. I put my hands over my face like this, closed my eyes. I gradually opened my fingers like this, and I opened my eyes, and when I did he started off in kind of a little trot.

Mr. BALL. Which way?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Sir?

Mr. BALL. Which way?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Towards Jefferson, right across that way.

Mr. DULLES. Did he have the pistol in his hand at this time?

Mrs. MARKHAM. He had the gun when I saw him.

Mr. BALL. Did you yell at him?

Mrs. MARKHAM. When I pulled my fingers down where I could see, I got my hand down, he began to trot off, and then I ran to the policeman.

Mr. BALL. Before you put your hands over your eyes, before you put your hand over your eyes, did you see the man walk towards the corner?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes.

Mr. BALL. What did he do?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Well, he stared at me.

Mr. BALL. What did you do?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I didn't do anything. I couldn't.

Mr. BALL. Didn't you say something?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No, I couldn't.

Mr. BALL. Or yell or scream?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I could not. I could not say nothing.

Mr. BALL. You looked at him?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes.

Mr. BALL. You looked at him?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. He looked wild. I mean, well, he did to me.

Mr. BALL. And you say you saw him fooling with his gun?

Mrs. MARKHAM. He had it in his hands.

Mr. BALL. Did you see what he was doing with it?

Mrs. MARKHAM. He was just fooling with it. I didn't know what he was doing. I was afraid he was fixing to kill me.

Mr. BALL. How far away from the police car do you think you were on the corner when you saw the shooting?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Well, I wasn't too far.

Mr. BALL. Can you estimate it in feet? Don't guess.

Mrs. MARKHAM. I would just be afraid to say how many feet because I am a bad judgment on that.

Mr. BALL. When you looked at the man, though, when he came toward the corner, you were standing on one corner, were you?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Where was he standing with reference to the other corner?

Mrs. MARKHAM. After he had shot----

Mr. BALL. When he looked at you.

Mrs. MARKHAM. After he had shot the policeman?

Mr. BALL. Yes.

Mrs. MARKHAM. He was standing almost even to that curb, not very far from the curb, from the sidewalk.

Mr. BALL. Across the street from you?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did he look at you?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. And did you look at him?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I sure did.

Mr. BALL. That was before you put your hands over your eyes?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir; and he kept fooling with his gun, and I slapped my hands up to my face like this.

Mr. BALL. And then you ran to the policeman?

Mrs. MARKHAM. After he ran off.

Mr. BALL. In what hand did he have his gun, do you know, when he fired the shots?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Sir, I believe it was his right. I am not positive because I was scared.

Mr. BALL. When he came down the street towards you, in what hand did he have his gun?

Mrs. MARKHAM. He had it in both of them.

Mr. BALL. He had it in both of them?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. When he went towards Jefferson you say he went at sort of a trot?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did he cross Patton?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. DULLES. Were there many other, or other people in the block at that time, or were you there with Officer Tippit almost alone?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I was out there, I didn't see anybody. I was there alone by myself.

Mr. DULLES. I see. You didn't see anybody else in the immediate neighborhood?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No; not until everything was over--I never seen anybody until I was at Mr. Tippit's side. I tried to save his life, which was I didn't know at that time I couldn't do something for him.

Mr. DULLES. Mr. Tippit, Officer Tippit, didn't say anything to you?

Mrs. MARKHAM. He tried to.

Mr. DULLES. He tried to?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. DULLES. But he didn't succeed?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No, I couldn't understand. I was screaming and hollering and I was trying to help him all I could, and I would have. I was with him until they put him in the ambulance.

Mr. BALL. Did you make an estimate of how far you were from this man with the gun when he came--after the shooting, and when he came down to the corner, did you make an estimate of that?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No. To anyone----

Mr. BALL. We measured it the other day. We were out there, weren't we?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Now I couldn't tell you how many feet or nothing because I have never had no occasions to measure that.

Mr. DULLES. Was it further than this table, the length of this table?

Mrs. MARKHAM. It was across the street.

Mr. DULLES. Across the street. It was two or three times the length of this table?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Across from the street. That was too close.

Mr. BALL. We have a map coming from the FBI. We thought it would be here this morning.

Mrs. Markham, you were taken to the Police Department, weren't you?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Immediately.

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Later that day they had a showup you went to?

Mrs. MARKHAM. A lineup?

Mr. BALL. A lineup.

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes.

Mr. BALL. How many men were in the lineup?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I believe there were, now I am not positive, I believe there were three besides this man.

Mr. BALL. That would be four people altogether?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I believe that is correct.

Mr. BALL. Were they of anywhere near similar build or size or coloring?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, they were all about the same height.

Mr. BALL. Who were you in the lineup room with?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Who was I in the room where they had this man?

Mr. BALL. Yes.

Mrs. MARKHAM. Policemen.

Mr. BALL. More than one?

Mrs. MARKHAM. The room was full.

Mr. BALL. It was. In this lineup room, the room was full of policemen. Weren't there just one or two men with you?

Mrs. MARKHAM. One or two with me, but I don't know who they were.

Mr. BALL. But there were other officers?

Mrs. MARKHAM. There were all policemen sitting in the back of me, and aside of me.

Mr. BALL. In this room?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. They were doing something.

Mr. BALL. Before you went into this room were you shown a picture of anyone?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I was not.

Mr. BALL. Did you see any television?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I did not.

Mr. BALL. Did a police officer say anything to you before you went in there, to tell you----

Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. That he thought "We had the right man," or something of that sort? Anything like that?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. No statement like that?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did anybody tell you that the man you were looking for would be in a certain position in the lineup, or anything like that?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. Now when you went into the room you looked these people over, these four men?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did you recognize anyone in the lineup?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. You did not? Did you see anybody--I have asked you that question before--did you recognize anybody from their face?

Mrs. MARKHAM. From their face, no.

Mr. BALL. Did you identify anybody in these four people?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I didn't know nobody.

Mr. BALL. I know you didn't know anybody, but did anybody in that lineup look like anybody you had seen before?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No. I had never seen none of them, none of these men.

Mr. BALL. No one of the four?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No one of them.

Mr. BALL. No one of all four?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. Was there a number two man in there?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two is the one I picked.

Mr. BALL. Well, I thought you just told me that you hadn't----

Mrs. MARKHAM. I thought you wanted me to describe their clothing.

Mr. BALL. No. I wanted to know if that day when you were in there if you saw anyone in there----

Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two.

Mr. BALL. What did you say when you saw number two?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Well, let me tell you. I said the second man, and they kept asking me which one, which one. I said, number two. When I said number two, I just got weak.

Mr. BALL. What about number two, what did you mean when you said number two?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two was the man I saw shoot the policeman.

Mr. BALL. You recognized him from his appearance?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I asked--I looked at him. When I saw this man I wasn't sure, but I had cold chills just run all over me.

Mr. BALL. When you saw him?

Mrs. MARKHAM. When I saw the man. But I wasn't sure, so, you see, I told them I wanted to be sure, and looked at his face is what I was looking at, mostly is what I looked at, on account of his eyes, the way he looked at me. So I asked them if they would turn him sideways. They did, and then they turned him back around, and I said the second, and they said, which one, and I said number two. So when I said that, well, I just kind of fell over. Everybody in there, you know, was beginning to talk, and I don't know, just----

Mr. BALL. Did you recognize him from his clothing?

Mrs. MARKHAM. He had on a light short jacket, dark trousers. I looked at his clothing, but I looked at his face, too.

Mr. BALL. Did he have the same clothing on that the man had that you saw shoot the officer?

Mrs. MARKHAM. He had these dark trousers on.

Mr. BALL. Did he have a jacket or a shirt? The man that you saw shoot Officer Tippit and run away, did you notice if he had a jacket on?

Mrs. MARKHAM. He had a jacket on when he done it.

Mr. BALL. What kind of a jacket, what general color of jacket?

Mrs. MARKHAM. It was a short jacket open in the front, kind of a grayish tan.

Mr. BALL. Did you tell the police that?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, I did.

Mr. BALL. Did any man in the lineup have a jacket on?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I can't remember that.

Mr. BALL. Did this number two man that you mentioned to the police have any jacket on when he was in the lineup?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. What did he have on?

Mrs. MARKHAM. He had on a light shirt and dark trousers.

(Representative Ford is now in the Commission hearing room.)

Mr. BALL. Did you recognize the man from his clothing or from his face?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Mostly from his face.

Mr. BALL. Were you sure it was the same man you had seen before?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I am sure.

Mr. BALL. Now, what time of day was it that you saw this man in the lineup?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I would say it was four, a little after.

Mr. BALL. That was four in the afternoon?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I was so upset I couldn't even tell you the time. In fact, I wasn't interested in the time.

Mr. BALL. Yes.

Mr. DULLES. Could I ask just one question?

Mr. BALL. Yes.

Mr. DULLES. You referred to his eyes; they were rather striking. Can you give any impression of how his eyes looked to you? I realize that is a very vague question.

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes. He looked wild. They were glassy looking, because I could see----

Mr. DULLES. He had no glasses on?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No. When we looked at each other, he just stared, just like that. I just don't know. I just seen him--I would know the man anywhere, I know I would.

Mr. DULLES. Thank you.

Mr. BALL. I have here an exhibit, Commission Exhibit 162, a jacket. Did you ever see this before?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No; I did not.

Mr. BALL. Does it look like, anything like, the jacket the man had on?

Mrs. MARKHAM. It is short, open down the front. But that jacket it is a darker jacket than that, I know it was.

Mr. BALL. You don't think it was as light a jacket as that?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No, it was darker than that, I know it was. At that moment I was so excited----

Mr. BALL. I show you a shirt here, which is Exhibit 150. Did you ever see a shirt the color of this?

Mrs. MARKHAM. The shirt that this man had, it was a lighter looking shirt than that.

Mr. BALL. The man who shot Tippit?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir; I think it was lighter.

Mr. BALL. All right. I have some pictures here that I would like to show you. I have Exhibits 521 and 522, which have been marked as Exhibits. Here is one picture, 521. Do you recognize that as the sign down?

Mrs. MARKHAM. This is the corner of Patton and 10th.

Mr. BALL. Patton and 10th.

Mrs. MARKHAM. This is on the corner of Patton and 10th.

Mr. BALL. Yes. Was the man anywhere near that corner when you saw him?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, he was.

Mr. BALL. After the shooting?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir; he was.

Mr. BALL. All right. Now, take this pen and put an X as to the point when he looked at you and you looked at him.

Mrs. MARKHAM. He was right along here.

Mr. BALL. Put an X.

Mrs. MARKHAM. I don't know. I am too nervous.

Mr. BALL. At the time the man was standing at X in this picture, at this location, which is shown in 521, where were you?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I was on the opposite corner, across over here, like this.

Mr. BALL. Were you as close to the curb as--were you close to the curb at that time?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, I was.

Mr. DULLES. Where was the car, where this car is?

Mr. BALL. No, I have another picture I will show her. I have here Exhibit 522; do you recognize the white house in the picture?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes.

Mr. BALL. And the driveway next to it?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Does that show the location of the police car at the time it stopped?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. That is the big old white house, 404.

Mrs. BALL. That is right.

Mrs. MARKHAM. 10th Street, and this driveway and this house.

Mr. DULLES. Will you give us an idea, Mr. Ball, as to where she said she was on this picture? Was she over here?

Mr. BALL. We have a picture. There is a booklet here that has been prepared by a succession of witnesses. We have a general diagram here which I will show the witness at this time.

Mrs. Markham, there is a diagram here which shows 10th Street going in an easterly and westerly direction, Patton running north and south.

(Marked Commission Exhibit No. 523 for identification.)

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Do you understand that?

Mrs. MARKHAM. This would be the corner I would be at.

Mr. BALL. No, this would be Patton. This is north and south. Jefferson is down here. Can you locate yourself?

Mrs. MARKHAM. This is 10th?

Mr. BALL. That is 10th.

Mrs. MARKHAM. And this Patton?

Mr. BALL. That is right.

Mrs. MARKHAM. I was standing on the corner of 10th and Patton.

Mr. BALL. That is right. But which corner?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Northeast corner is where I was standing.

Mr. BALL. Northeast or northwest? This would be northeast and this would be northwest. Here is where the squad car would be. Right there. Here is 404.

Mrs. MARKHAM. It would be this corner then.

Mr. BALL. Well, that is northeast and that is northwest. Were you kitty-cornered?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I was kitty-cornered from it like this.

Mr. BALL. Like that?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Well, this is northwest, this is northeast, southeast, southwest, and here is the car. We are going down the street now.

Mrs. MARKHAM. It would be this--that would be on the opposite side.

Mr. BALL. That is right. Look at a number on that and tell me where you were standing.

Mrs. MARKHAM. I was standing right at the curb.

Mr. BALL. Do you see a number?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Number 5.

Mr. BALL. Number 5 on this diagram would be indicating the place where you would be standing, is that right?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I was standing on the opposite corner from that.

Mr. BALL. I know, but I have got to get you to tell me where you were standing. Picture yourself going down Patton towards Jefferson.

Mrs. MARKHAM. Going down Patton?

Mr. BALL. You were coming from this direction. Your home was up here.

Mrs. MARKHAM. I was coming down Patton. It would be this corner.