Part 5

Mr. MARTIN. No, except that the Elsbeth address, I believe, was a brick residence, I mean a brick apartment, it is a dark building, and the Neely Street address is a white building.

I believe the photo shows a white building.

Mr. REDLICH. On the basis of that you would conclude the photograph was taken at which address?

Mr. MARTIN. At the Neely Street address.

Mr. REDLICH. At the Neely Street address. When you were negotiating with various publications for this photograph, didn't anyone ask you when and where it was taken?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, I told them that it was while they were living in Oak Cliff. I didn't say where or when.

Mr. REDLICH. No one asked you.

Mr. MARTIN. And they apparently weren't concerned with the where or when.

Mr. REDLICH. Did they ask you anything about the publication which Lee Oswald had in his hand?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, and I told them that it was either the Militant or the Worker. I was not sure which one. I am not even sure whether either one.

Mr. REDLICH. Your copy of the photograph did not indicate clearly which one it was?

Mr. MARTIN. Correct.

Mr. REDLICH. Do you now know which one it was?

Mr. MARTIN. No.

Mr. DULLES. Are you sure it is one of the two?

Mr. MARTIN. No, I am not. I assume that it would be one of the two.

Mr. REDLICH. For the record it is the Militant.

Mr. DULLES. It is?

Mr. REDLICH. Is there anything about the circumstances of this photograph, including the rifle, the pistol, the time, the place, anything concerning this photograph that you have not told this Commission about which you have knowledge?

Mr. MARTIN. No.

Mr. REDLICH. The last item on Commission Exhibit No. 325 is This Week magazine, $1,000. Could you tell us about that. At the conclusion of this list I will ask if there is anything else. We are now at This Week magazine.

Mr. MARTIN. When Marina was here in Washington, she had the press conference, and at the end of the press conference she mentioned, she made a statement "Now I go to church." On the way to the CBS studios we passed a Russian Orthodox Church, and she remarked about it, that she would like to come back and go inside, see what it looked like. Someone in This Week magazine caught that statement, and wanted to write a short article on Marina going to church, and that is what that is.

Mr. REDLICH. What happened? Could you tell us how this article got written?

Mr. MARTIN. It hasn't been written.

Mr. REDLICH. Did the reporter accompany Mrs. Oswald to church?

Mr. MARTIN. Oh, no. Actually when the television interview was over, we came back and went to the church, but the church was locked and we didn't get in at all. Now this contact was made after we left Washington. This Week magazine contacted us after, not while we were still here.

Mr. REDLICH. And what was the subject matter of this article specifically supposed to be?

Mr. MARTIN. The title of it was supposed to be "I go to church," and it would be an article written on Marina going to church.

Mr. REDLICH. Mr. Martin, the total figure on the bottom of Commission Exhibit No. 325 is $132,350. This presumably does not include any future royalties, is that correct?

Mr. MARTIN. That is correct.

Mr. REDLICH. Have you made an estimate as to the total earnings which would accrue as a result of these contractual arrangements?

Mr. MARTIN. It should be approximately $300,000 at a maximum, depending on what American serial rights and British Commonwealth serial rights, Asiatic serial rights would bring.

Mr. REDLICH. You say the maximum of $300,000?

Mr. MARTIN. I think so.

Mr. LEECH. Of those contracts?

Mr. REDLICH. That is what I am asking about are these.

Mr. MARTIN. Of these contracts, yes.

Mr. REDLICH. Could you tell us about any other contractual arrangements that you have made or are negotiating on behalf of Marina Oswald?

Mr. MARTIN. There are no others. I will have to refer to things. We had an offer from Australia and also from New Zealand as far as this photograph is concerned. However, it was thrown to the wind by the Detroit Free Press, so they got it from Detroit Free Press, we have been offered--we have not received an offer. The Australian newspaper----

Mr. DULLES. Do you need these details do you think?

Mr. REDLICH. I want to get the total figure, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. MARTIN. Associated Newspapers Limited of Australia would like to have Australian rights to a book that Marina would write, and also the London Evening Standard would like to have the British rights, of course, to the picture of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. REDLICH. Mr. Martin, Mr. Thorne has indicated to this Commission that he estimated that Marina's earnings would approach approximately $500,000. Would you comment on that estimate?

Mr. MARTIN. I think it might be a little high. Of course, if you take into consideration she has $68,000, close to $70,000 in contributions alone, then the advances on this Exhibit No. 325, that is $200,000 right there. I think $500,000 might be just a little bit high.

Mr. REDLICH. The final document I would like to show you is a photostat of a letter which you presented to the Commission today, purporting to be a letter written in Russian together with an English translation. It starts, the English translation starts with the words "As the widow of Lee Oswald." I show you Commission Exhibit No. 333 and ask you if this is a photostat of the letter which you submitted to the Commission this morning.

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, apparently so.

Mr. DULLES. Who is that letter to?

Mr. REDLICH. We don't know yet.

Mr. DULLES. You don't know yet?

Mr. REDLICH. I will develop that in the questioning. I mark this Commission Exhibit No. 333, being a Russian letter and what purports to be its English translation and ask that it be admitted in evidence.

Mr. DULLES. Can you identify that any further than just a Russian letter?

Mr. REDLICH. On the top appears a date, and the day of the month is the 20th. I am unable to tell what month it is.

Mr. MARTIN. But the year is 1964, and the words "Dallas, Texas" then appear under the date.

Mr. DULLES. That helps identify it.

Mr. REDLICH. I ask that it be admitted in evidence.

Mr. DULLES. Any objection?

Mr. LEECH. No objection.

Mr. DULLES. It is admitted.

(The photostats of a Russian letter with an English translation were marked Commission Exhibit No. 333 for identification and received in evidence.)

Mr. REDLICH. Mr. Martin, with your permission I would just summarize the contents of this letter, and if I have summarized it inaccurately, just say so. This letter requests that the death penalty not be applied to Jack Ruby, the person who has been charged with the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald. Is that inaccurate?

Mr. MARTIN. No; that is correct.

Mr. REDLICH. That is a correct summary of the contents of the letter?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. REDLICH. Do you recall to whom that letter was written?

Mr. MARTIN. She originally wrote the letter to Melvin Belli.

Mr. REDLICH. By "she" you mean Marina Oswald?

Mr. MARTIN. Marina. I advised her against----

Mr. REDLICH. Melvin Belli?

Mr. MARTIN. Is the attorney for Jack Ruby. I advised her against such an action, because of the possibility of the letter itself in translating from Russian to English being misinterpreted and used in a manner that might be derogatory to Marina Oswald. I suggested that she send this letter to Henry Wade who would be the prosecutor in the case. Now whether she changed the salutation on the letter I don't know. I can't read Russian. And the salutation was not translated in the translation. The translation was made by Katya Ford.

Mr. REDLICH. To the best of your knowledge has this letter ever been sent to anyone?

Mr. MARTIN. No sir, it hasn't.

Mr. DULLES. You say it has not been?

Mr. MARTIN. It has not been.

Mr. DULLES. That is your belief or you have knowledge that it has not been?

Mr. MARTIN. I have the original. Now if a letter has been sent, it would be a different letter.

Mr. REDLICH. On the basis of your knowledge of Marina Oswald's handwriting, would you tell the Commission whether you believe that this letter is in her handwriting?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, it is. I also observed her writing the letter.

Mr. REDLICH. Are you aware of the fact that Marina Oswald discussed this letter when she appeared before this Commission?

Mr. MARTIN. I believe you mentioned it sometime today.

Mr. REDLICH. Were you aware of it prior to your coming here?

Mr. MARTIN. No.

Mr. REDLICH. Do you know why it has not been sent?

Mr. MARTIN. She decided that it was best not to be sent unless she actually thought that Ruby was going to get the death penalty. Actually a letter like that should go to the Governor of the State.

Mr. REDLICH. Mr. Martin, do you have any additional information concerning the assassination of President Kennedy, Marina Oswald, or the assassination of her husband Lee Harvey Oswald which you would like to present before this Commission at this time?

Mr. MARTIN. No, I don't think so. Nothing.

Mr. REDLICH. If it would be helpful for the work of this Commission for you to return to Washington and appear again before this Commission, would you be willing to do so?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. REDLICH. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions of this witness, unless Mr. Rankin does or you do.

Mr. DULLES. I would just like to ask a question about this letter I am just glancing over. Where did this letter paper come from? Is that some personal paper with a tree on it?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes. I bought that.

Mr. DULLES. You bought it for her?

Mr. MARTIN. At a drug store, yes, sir, at a drug store in Arlington.

Mr. DULLES. Is this another draft or is this just a copy?

Mr. MARTIN. This is the original of the copy.

Mr. REDLICH. We have photographed what is now Commission Exhibit No. 333 and we are keeping the photostat. Mr. Martin, you will recall that at the start of today's proceedings Chief Justice Warren read into the record a copy of the letter which you received requesting certain notes, records, documents in connection with today's hearing. Have you made available to the Commission all of the material which was requested in that letter?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; I went through everything I had at home, and could find nothing else.

Mr. REDLICH. If you should find anything else which you inadvertently failed to bring before this Commission, will you mail it to us for examination and we will return it to you.

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; there is a Worker that I have.

Mr. REDLICH. You mean by Worker the Daily Worker?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes. I think they dropped the "Daily."

Mr. DULLES. They are no longer daily.

Mr. MARTIN. It is called the Worker now. It has quite a lengthy article about Marina in it, and I will send that to you.

Mr. REDLICH. And you will send anything that you may come across which you may have inadvertently failed to produce before this Commission?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. REDLICH. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. DULLES. There were some questions that Senator Cooper had suggested. I don't know, have you looked those over? Have they been covered?

Mr. RANKIN. Yes.

Mr. REDLICH. Those have been covered.

Mr. DULLES. All been covered?

Mr. REDLICH. Yes.

Mr. DULLES. Did Marina ever express to you her opinion as to the guilt or innocence of her husband in connection with the assassination of the President?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. DULLES. What did she say?

Mr. MARTIN. She believes he was guilty. She believes he did it, and the first time she said it I questioned her as to why she thought he did it, and she said she just felt it. It was a woman's intuition. She didn't know the word intuition at that time. I had to look it up in the Russian-English Dictionary.

Mr. DULLES. Did she indicate any view as to whether he did it alone or had an accomplice or accomplices?

Mr. MARTIN. She remarked about the Walker incident, that that was definitely done alone, and that he always was alone. He never did anything with anyone else. I don't recall that she mentioned that specifically in the case of the assassination of the President. But she had made that remark before or during the interim about Walker.

Mr. DULLES. Did she ever at any time express to you any interest in returning to the Soviet Union or her desire to stay in the United States?

Mr. MARTIN. Well, she has always said that she wanted to stay in the United States. One time she said that she thought she would go back to Russia, and I asked her why and she said, well, she was just joking.

Mr. DULLES. Did she ever refer to you any letters she wrote to the Soviet Embassy with regard to a desire to return?

Mr. MARTIN. No. There was only one incident that she told me about was a letter to a friend in Russia.

Mr. DULLES. You mentioned that I think.

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. DULLES. The one that she didn't put enough stamps on, enough postage on.

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, it came back "insufficient postage."

Mr. DULLES. Did she ever mention to you any names of any friends or associates of her husband that had not been discussed here at one time or another in this testimony, including the list of names that was read out to you?

Mr. MARTIN. No.

Mr. DULLES. Do you know any other friends that Marina has other than those that have been discussed in this testimony?

Mr. MARTIN. No. I was trying to think a while ago about that, and I can't think of anyone else.

Mr. DULLES. That is all I have.

Mr. REDLICH. Mr. Leech, would you like to ask Mr. Martin any questions at this time?

Mr. LEECH. Not a word.

Mr. DULLES. Mr. Rhyne? Mr. Rankin, have you any further questions?

Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Chairman, I merely wish to thank him for appearing voluntarily.

Mr. DULLES. I do thank you for coming and responding so fully to our questions.

Mr. MARTIN. Anything I can do.

Mr. DULLES. And if anything occurs to you or to your counsel as sometimes happens later, we will be very glad if you or your counsel will bring it to our attention.

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; I certainly will.

Mr. REDLICH. May I before we adjourn ask another question?

Mr. DULLES. Certainly.

Mr. REDLICH. Have you ever discussed with Mrs. Marguerite Oswald the question of the guilt or innocence of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. MARTIN. No. The only time I was in contact with Marguerite Oswald was at the Inn of the Six Flags in Arlington, Tex., and I don't believe I really discussed anything with her. I was more on the sidelines and didn't enter into any discussions with her at all.

Mr. REDLICH. And have you discussed with Robert Oswald the question of the guilt or innocence of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes. Let's see, on one occasion the article by Mark Lane, I think it was in the National Observer, was printed in the National Observer, and I called Robert's attention to that. I believe he cited 15 points where he believed that Lee Oswald was innocent, and I remarked to Robert that in nearly 100 percent of those points they were just completely out of line. The brief I believe was taken from newspaper accounts, from various newspaper accounts of the assassination, and a number of them contradicted each other.

Mr. REDLICH. Did Robert Oswald comment on this?

Mr. MARTIN. No.

Mr. REDLICH. For the record I believe the publication you are referring to is the National Guardian.

Mr. MARTIN. The National Guardian, yes.

Mr. REDLICH. Is that your recollection now?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, National Guardian.

Mr. REDLICH. And Robert Oswald had no comment on this?

Mr. MARTIN. No.

Mr. REDLICH. We have no further questions.

Mr. DULLES. The Commission will stand adjourned, subject to call.

(Whereupon, at 10:20 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)

_Wednesday, March 4, 1964_

TESTIMONY OF MARK LANE

The President's Commission met at 2:30 p.m., on March 4, 1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C.

Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman; Senator John Sherman Cooper and Representative Gerald R. Ford, members.

Also present were J. Lee Rankin, general counsel; Norman Redlich, assistant counsel; Charles Murray and Charles Rhyne, assistants to Walter E. Craig.

The CHAIRMAN. The Commission will be in order.

The Commission has been informed that Mr. Lane has collected numerous materials relevant to the Commission's work.

The Commission proposes to question Mr. Lane on all matters of which he has knowledge concerning the assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent killing of Lee Harvey Oswald, and to request of Mr. Lane that he make available to the Commission any documentary material in his possession which can assist the Commission in its work.

In accordance with the rules of this Commission, Mr. Lane has been furnished with a copy of this statement.

Mr. Lane, would please rise and be sworn? Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. LANE. I do.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you be seated, please.

Mr. Rankin, would you proceed with the examination, please?

Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Lane, will you state your name?

Mr. LANE. My name is Mark Lane.

Mr. RANKIN. Where do you live?

Mr. LANE. 164 West 79th Street, New York City, New York State.

Mr. RANKIN. Are you a practicing lawyer?

Mr. LANE. Yes; I am.

Mr. RANKIN. Will you state your age, please?

Mr. LANE. I am 37 years old.

Mr. RANKIN. How long have you been practicing law?

Mr. LANE. Thirteen years.

Mr. RANKIN. You have qualified in the State of New York?

Mr. LANE. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Are you qualified in any other Jurisdiction?

Mr. LANE. Just in the Federal court.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you have some information concerning the matters being investigated by the Commission that you would like to present to the Commission?

Mr. LANE. Yes; I do.

Mr. RANKIN. Will you proceed to do so?

Mr. LANE. Yes.

I wonder if I might ask at the outset if I will be able to secure a copy of the transcript of my testimony tomorrow, or is that going to be rushing things?

The CHAIRMAN. You will be able to obtain it. I don't know whether we can promise it to you tomorrow morning or not. But we will do it just as quickly as it can be transcribed by the reporter.

Mr. LANE. Thank you, sir.

At the outset, I would like to request that this portion of the hearing, in any event, be opened to the public. I think that there are matters here of grave concern to all the people of our country, and that it would, therefore, be fruitful and constructive for the sessions to be conducted in a public fashion, open to the public and to the press.

Accordingly, I request that this session at least involving my testimony be so opened to the public.

The CHAIRMAN. You would have a right, as any witness would have, to request that, Mr. Lane. We will conduct this in an open hearing. We will adjourn at this time to the auditorium downstairs, and we will conduct the hearing there. It will be open to the public. I saw a good many members of the press around, so it will really be a public affair.

(Whereupon, at 2:45 p.m., the Commission recessed and then reconvened in the auditorium in open session.)

TESTIMONY OF MARK LANE RESUMED IN OPEN SESSION

The CHAIRMAN. The Commission will be in order.

The Commission convened in our committee room on the fourth floor.

A reporter has been appointed.

Mr. Lane has been sworn.

Mr. Lane has stated that he would like to give his testimony at a public hearing. I explained to him that that was thoroughly agreeable to the Commission. The Commission does not operate in a secret way. Any witness who desires to have his--give his testimony in public may do so.

We have done it in the quiet of our rooms for the convenience of witnesses, and in order to accelerate the program. But any witness who desires to have his testimony recorded at a public hearing may do so.

The purpose of this Commission is, of course, eventually to make known to the President, and to the American public everything that has transpired before this Commission. All of it will be made available at the appropriate time. The records of the work of the Commission will be preserved for the public. So, Mr. Lane, we will be happy to accommodate you, and to proceed with our hearing.

Now, Mr. Rankin will conduct the examination.

(Having been previously duly sworn.)

Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Lane, will you proceed to tell the Commission whatever you have that would bear upon this investigation? Start item by item, and give us whatever you have in support.

Mr. LANE. Yes, sir.

At the outset, I would like to call to the Commission's attention a matter which is somewhat peripheral, perhaps, and should the Commission determine it does not wish to hear my testimony in that regard, I will understand that. But I would like to call it to your attention, because although it is peripheral I think it is related to both the assassination and the investigation into the assassination of the President.

That is in relationship to a picture which has been widely publicized, probably in every single community of our country, allegedly showing Lee Harvey Oswald holding in his hand a rifle which has been described in at least one publication, Life magazine, as the weapon with which he assassinated President Kennedy.

I would like to indicate to the Commission at this time that the pictures which have been distributed throughout the country included doctored and forged photographs. I would like to present evidence to the Commission at this time in that regard.

I ask the Commission if it does conclude that the photographs have been doctored, whether it will consider determining whether or not a crime has been committed, or an effort has been made to submit evidence to the Commission members, though not directly through the press, from magazines, which evidence----

The CHAIRMAN. I didn't get that last sentence--something about the Commission?

Mr. LANE. I am asking the Commission if it does conclude that the pictures have been doctored, to consider investigating the method by which the doctoring took place, who was responsible, and whether or not an effort has been made to influence the members of the Commission, while not directly, through the publication of this picture, which certainly has been circulated very widely throughout our country.

The CHAIRMAN. You may be sure, Mr. Lane, that anything you present in that regard will be thoroughly considered by the Commission.

Mr. LANE. Thank you, sir.

I would like to offer the February 21, 1964 issue of Life magazine.

Mr. RANKIN. Will you mark that, Mr. Reporter, please, the next number.

Mr. LANE. A picture appears on the entire cover of Life magazine, and an identical picture appears in the interior pages, at page 80. The caption on the cover reads, "Lee Oswald with the weapons he used to kill President Kennedy and Officer Tippit."

I think it is quite plain from looking at both of the pictures that there appears on the rifle, what appears to be a rifle in the left hand of Lee Harvey Oswald, a telescopic sight.

Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Lane, we will mark that Exhibit No. 334.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 334, for identification.)

Mr. LANE. Next I would like to offer a picture which is a glossy 8-1/2-by-11 picture, of a photograph published in the New York Times, secured by the New York Times from the Associated Press.

Representative FORD. Is there any verification of the fact that that is as you have identified it?

Mr. LANE. That is what--a picture secured----

Representative FORD. From the New York Times, which in turn had acquired it from the Associated Press?

Mr. LANE. Well, that is a statement which I have made under oath, and it can be verified with the New York Times.

Mr. RANKIN. That is Exhibit 335 that you are just referring to, Mr. Lane.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 335, for identification.)