Part 22

Mr. SPECTER. Now, referring to Commission Exhibit No. 354, would you mark an "X", as best you can, at the spot where the President's automobile was at the time the first shot occurred?

Mr. HILL. Approximately there.

Mr. SPECTER. And would you mark a "Y" at the approximate position where the President's car was at the second shot you have described? What is your best estimate of the speed of the President's car at the precise time of the first shot, Mr. Hill?

Mr. HILL. We were running between 12 to 15 miles per hour, but no faster than 15 miles per hour.

Mr. SPECTER. How many shots have you described that you heard?

Mr. HILL. Two.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you hear any more than two shots?

Mr. HILL. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And what is your best estimate of the speed of the President's automobile at the time of the second shot?

Mr. HILL. Approximately the same speed as that of the first--although at the time that I jumped on the car, the car had surged forward. The President at that time had been shot in the head.

Mr. SPECTER. When, in relationship to the second shot, did the car accelerate--that is, the President's car?

Mr. HILL. Almost simultaneously.

Mr. SPECTER. You testified just a moment ago that the President grabbed at himself immediately after the first noise which you described as sounding like a firecracker.

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Would you tell us with more particularity in what way he grabbed at himself?

Mr. HILL. He grabbed in this general area.

Mr. SPECTER. You are indicating that your right hand is coming up to your--to the throat?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And the left hand crosses right under the right hand.

Mr. HILL. To the chest area.

Mr. SPECTER. To the chest area. Was there any movement of the President's head or shoulders immediately after the first shot, that you recollect?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir. Immediately when I saw him, he was like this, and going left and forward.

Mr. SPECTER. Indicating a little fall to the left front.

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.

Representative BOGGS. This was after a head wound?

Mr. HILL. No, sir.

Representative BOGGS. Before the head wound?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir; this was the first shot.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, what is your best estimate on the timespan between the first firecracker-type noise you heard and the second shot which you have described?

Mr. HILL. Approximately 5 seconds.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, did the impact on the President's head occur simultaneously, before, or after the second noise which you have described?

Mr. HILL. Almost simultaneously.

Representative FORD. Did you see the President put his hands to his throat and chest while you were still on the followup car, or after you had left it?

Mr. HILL. As I was leaving. And that is one of the reasons I jumped, because I saw him grab himself and pitch forward and to the left. I knew something was wrong.

Representative FORD. It was 5 seconds from the firecracker noise that you think you got to the automobile?

Mr. HILL. Until I reached the handhold, had placed my foot on the left rear step.

Mr. SPECTER. When, in relationship to the second shot, did Mrs. Kennedy move out of the rear seat?

Mr. HILL. Just after it.

Mr. SPECTER. You say that it appeared that she was reaching as if something was coming over to the rear portion of the car, back in the area where you were coming to?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Was there anything back there that you observed, that she might have been reaching for?

Mr. HILL. I thought I saw something come off the back, too, but I cannot say that there was. I do know that the next day we found the portion of the President's head.

Mr. SPECTER. Where did you find that portion of the President's head?

Mr. HILL. It was found in the street. It was turned in, I believe, by a medical student or somebody in Dallas.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have any difficulty maintaining your balance on the back of the car after you had come up on the top of it?

Mr. HILL. Not until we turned off to enter the Parkland Hospital.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, what action did you take specifically with respect to placing Mrs. Kennedy back in the rear seat?

Mr. HILL. I simply just pushed and she moved--somewhat voluntarily--right back into the same seat she was in. The President--when she had attempted to get out onto the trunk of the car, his body apparently did not move too much, because when she got back into the car he was at that time, when I got on top of the car, face up in her lap.

Mr. SPECTER. And that was after she was back in the rear seat?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And where were the President's legs at that time?

Mr. HILL. Inside the car.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, what, if anything, did you observe as to the condition of Governor Connally at that time?

Mr. HILL. After going under this underpass, I looked forward to the jump seats, where Mrs. Connally and Governor Connally were sitting. Mrs. Connally had been leaning over her husband. And I had no idea that he had been shot. And when she leaned back at one time, I noticed that his coat was unbuttoned, and that the lower portion of his abdomen was completely covered with blood.

Mr. SPECTER. When was it that you first observed that?

Mr. HILL. Just after going under the underpass.

Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to observe anything which was occurring on the overpass as the President's motorcade moved toward the overpass?

Mr. HILL. From the time I got on the back of the Presidential limousine, I didn't really pay any attention to what was going on outside the automobile.

Mr. SPECTER. Had you noticed the overpass prior to the time you got on the Presidential automobile?

Mr. HILL. Yes; I had scanned it.

Mr. SPECTER. And do you recollect what, if anything, you observed on the overpass at that time?

Mr. HILL. There were some people there, but I also noticed there was a policeman there.

Mr. SPECTER. Approximately how many people would you say were there?

Mr. HILL. Very few, I would say--maybe five, six.

Mr. SPECTER. And how were you able to identify that there was a policeman there?

Mr. HILL. He was wearing the uniform--presumably a policeman.

Mr. SPECTER. What color uniform was it?

Mr. HILL. I think it was blue of some shade.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you identify it at that time as being of the identical color which other Dallas policemen were wearing whom you had observed in the area?

Mr. HILL. That's correct, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Can you characterize the type of acceleration which the car made after it started to speed forward--that is, the Presidential car.

Mr. HILL. Well, the initial surge was quite violent, because it almost jerked me off the left rear step board. Then after that it was apparently gradual, because I did not notice it any more.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate of the distance from the time of the shooting to Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. In time or----

Mr. SPECTER. Time and distance.

Mr. HILL. Distance, I have no idea.

Mr. SPECTER. How about time?

Mr. HILL. I would say roughly 4 minutes.

Mr. SPECTER. Did Mrs. Kennedy say anything as you were proceeding from the time of the shooting to Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. At the time of the shooting, when I got into the rear of the car, she said, "My God, they have shot his head off." Between there and the hospital she just said, "Jack, Jack, what have they done to you," and sobbed.

Mr. SPECTER. Was there any conversation by anybody else in the President's automobile from the time of the shooting to the arrival at Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. I heard Special Agent Kellerman say on the radio, "To the nearest hospital, quick."

Mr. SPECTER. Any other comment?

Mr. HILL. He said, "We have been hit."

Mr. SPECTER. Now, was there any other comment you heard Special Agent Kellerman make?

Mr. HILL. Not that I recall.

Mr. SPECTER. Did Special Agent Greer say anything?

Mr. HILL. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Mrs. Connally say anything?

Mr. HILL. No, sir.

Representative BOGGS. Was Governor Connally conscious?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir; he was.

Mr. SPECTER. Did Governor Connally say anything?

Mr. HILL. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Did President Kennedy say anything?

Mr. HILL. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate on the speed at which the President's car traveled from the point of the shooting to Parkland Hospital?

Mr. HILL. It is a little bit hard for me to judge, since I was lying across the rear portion of the automobile. I had no trouble staying in that particular position--until we approached the hospital, I recall, I believe it was a left-hand turn and I started slipping off to the right-hand portion of the car. So I would say that we went 60, maybe 65 at the most.

Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to secure a handhold or a leg-hold or any sort of a hold on the automobile as you moved forward?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir. I had my legs--I had my body above the rear seat, and my legs hooked down into the rear seat, one foot outside the car.

Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate of the time of the assassination itself?

Mr. HILL. Approximately 12:30.

Mr. SPECTER. I am not sure whether I asked you about this--about how long did it take you to get from the shooting to the hospital?

Mr. HILL. Approximately 4 minutes.

Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe as to President Kennedy's condition on arrival at the hospital?

Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have any opportunity to observe the front part of his body, to see whether there was any tear or rip in the clothing on the front?

Mr. HILL. I saw him lying there in the back of the car, when I was immediately above him. I cannot recall noticing anything that was ripped in the forward portion of his body.

Mr. SPECTER. What action, if any, did you take to shield the President's body?

Mr. HILL. I kept myself above the President and Mrs. Kennedy on the trip to Parkland.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you do anything with your coat upon arrival at Parkland Hospital to shield the President?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir. I removed it and covered the President's head and upper chest.

Mr. SPECTER. What, if anything, did you observe as to Governor Connally's condition on arrival at Parkland?

Mr. HILL. He was conscious. There was a large amount of blood in the lower abdominal area. He was helped from the automobile to the stretcher, and I do not recall him saying anything, but I know that he was conscious. He was wheeled immediately into, I think, emergency room No. 2.

Mr. SPECTER. And who was removed first from the automobile?

Mr. HILL. Governor Connally.

Mr. SPECTER. How long after the President's car arrived at Parkland Hospital did medical personnel come to the scene to remove the victims?

Mr. HILL. Seconds. They were there when we were there almost--almost simultaneously with the arrival.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you know where President Kennedy was taken in the hospital?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir. I accompanied he, and Mrs. Kennedy to the emergency room.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, tell us what you did at the hospital from the time of arrival on, please.

Mr. HILL. I went into the emergency room with the President, but it was so small, and there were so many people in there that I decided I had better leave and let the doctors take care of the situation. So I walked outside; asked for the nearest telephone; walked to the nearest telephone. About that time Special Agent in Charge Kellerman came outside and said, "Get the White House."

I asked Special Agent Lawson for the local number in Dallas of the White House switchboard, which he gave to me. I called the switchboard in Dallas; asked for the line to be open to Washington, and remain open continuously. And then I asked for Special Agent in Charge Behn's office. Mr. Kellerman came out of the emergency room about that time, took the telephone and called Special Agent in Charge Behn that we had had a double tragedy; that both Governor Connally and President Kennedy had been shot. And that was about as much as he said. I then took the telephone and shortly thereafter Mr. Kellerman came out of the emergency room and said, "Clint, tell Jerry this is unofficial and not for release, but the man is dead." Which I did. During the two calls, I talked to the Attorney General, who attempted to reach me, and told him that his brother had been seriously wounded; that we would keep him advised as to his condition.

Mr. SPECTER. Where was Mrs. Kennedy all this time, if you know?

Mr. HILL. Immediately upon arrival, she went into the emergency room. And a few minutes afterward, she was convinced to wait outside, which she did, remained there the rest of the period of time that we were there.

Mr. SPECTER. And was there any pronouncement that the President had died?

Mr. HILL. Not that I know of. Apparently there was. I was requested by Mr. O'Donnell, one of the Presidential assistants, to obtain a casket, because they wanted to return to Washington immediately. I contacted the administrator of the hospital and asked him to take me where I could telephone the nearest mortuary, which I did, requested that their best available casket be brought to the emergency entrance in my name immediately.

Mr. SPECTER. And what action was taken as a result of that request by you?

Mr. HILL. The casket did arrive from the O'Neal Mortuary, Inc., in their own hearse, which we then wheeled into the emergency room. I left the emergency room and asked that two of our agents, Special Agent Sulliman and Assistant Special Agent in Charge Stout clear all the corridors, and I checked the closest and most immediate route to the ambulance. We took the body from the hospital and departed the Parkland Hospital about 2:04 p.m. The ambulance was driven by Special Agent Berger. Special Agent in Charge Kellerman and Assistant Special Agent In Charge Stout were riding in the front seat; Mrs. Kennedy, Dr. Burkley, the President's body, and myself rode in the rear portion of the ambulance.

Mr. SPECTER. Approximately how long did it take you to reach the airplane at Love Field?

Mr. HILL. We arrived at Love Field at 2:14.

Mr. SPECTER. And were you present during the swearing-in ceremonies of President Johnson?

Mr. HILL. I was aboard the aircraft; yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you witness those ceremonies?

Mr. HILL. Well, the Presidential compartment was so small that not all persons on the aircraft could get in. I was in the forward portion of the aircraft, right adjacent to the area that the President was sworn in.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you know the time of the swearing in?

Mr. HILL. 2:38.

Mr. SPECTER. And what time did the Presidential aircraft depart?

Mr. HILL. 2:47.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you know what time it arrived in the Washington area?

Mr. HILL. 5:59, I believe, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. And where did it land?

Mr. HILL. We landed at Andrews Air Force Base.

Mr. SPECTER. And what action, if any, in connection with this matter did you take following landing?

Mr. HILL. I assisted Mrs. Kennedy and the Attorney General, who had joined her at that time, into the ambulance bearing the President's body, and I entered the automobile immediately behind the ambulance with Dr. John Walsh, Mrs. Kennedy's physician, and members of President Kennedy's staff.

Mr. SPECTER. And where did you go then?

Mr. HILL. Immediately to Bethesda Naval Hospital.

Mr. SPECTER. And did you stay with the President's family at that time?

Mr. HILL. When we arrived there, I went to the 17th floor with Mrs. Kennedy, and I remained with Mrs. Kennedy except for one time when I was requested to come to the morgue to view the President's body.

Mr. SPECTER. And did you view the President's body?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. What action did you take following the time you viewed the President's body in the morgue?

Mr. HILL. After the viewing of the President's body?

Mr. SPECTER. Yes.

Mr. HILL. I returned to the 17th floor and remained with Mrs. Kennedy until we departed the hospital.

Representative BOGGS. May I ask a question? At the hospital in Texas, you had seen--had you seen the whole body, or just the back of the President's head?

Mr. HILL. I had seen the whole body, but he was still cold when I saw him.

Representative BOGGS. At the morgue in Bethesda he was not cold?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir; the autopsy had been completed, and the Lawler Mortuary Co. was preparing the body for placement in a casket.

Representative BOGGS. At this time did you see the whole body?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.

Representative BOGGS. Did you see any other wound other than the head wound?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir; I saw an opening in the back, about 6 inches below the neckline to the right-hand side of the spinal column.

Representative BOGGS. Was there a frontal neck injury?

Mr. HILL. There was an area here that had been opened but----

Mr. SPECTER. You are indicating----

Mr. HILL. In the neck. It was my understanding at that time that this was done by a tracheotomy.

Mr. SPECTER. What else, if anything, of importance did you do between the time you viewed the body in the morgue until the termination of your duties on that date, Mr. Hill?

Mr. HILL. We handled all communications on the 17th floor, up to the 17th floor, for Mrs. Kennedy, members of her family, Cabinet members who were there at that time, and secured the 17th floor for all personnel. No one was permitted there that we did not know.

Mr. SPECTER. What time did you leave the 17th floor?

Mr. HILL. I believe, sir, it was 3:56, but I am not sure of the exact time.

Mr. SPECTER. Where did you go from there?

Mr. HILL. We went downstairs to the rear of the hospital, where the body was placed in a naval ambulance. I entered an automobile immediately behind the ambulance. Mrs. Kennedy and the Attorney General got into the rear of the ambulance with the body.

Mr. SPECTER. And from there, where did you go?

Mr. HILL. I accompanied them to the White House.

Mr. SPECTER. And did that mark the termination of your duties for that day?

Mr. HILL. No, sir. I remained on duty until approximately 6:30 in the morning; went home, changed clothes, and came back.

Mr. SPECTER. I believe you testified as to the impression you had as to the source of the first shot. To be sure that the record is complete, what was your reaction as to where the first shot came from, Mr. Hill?

Mr. HILL. Right rear.

Mr. SPECTER. And did you have a reaction or impression as to the source of point of origin of the second shot that you described?

Mr. HILL. It was right, but I cannot say for sure that it was rear, because when I mounted the car it was--it had a different sound, first of all, than the first sound that I heard. The second one had almost a double sound--as though you were standing against something metal and firing into it, and you hear both the sound of a gun going off and the sound of the cartridge hitting the metal place, which could have been caused probably by the hard surface of the head. But I am not sure that that is what caused it.

Mr. SPECTER. Are you describing this double sound with respect to what you heard on the occasion of the second shot?

Mr. HILL. The second shot that I heard; yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, do you now or have you ever had the impression or reaction that there was a shot which originated from the front of the Presidential car?

Mr. HILL. No.

Mr. SPECTER. That is all I have.

The CHAIRMAN. Congressman Ford, any questions you would like to ask?

Representative FORD. No.

Representative BOGGS. I have no questions, Mr. Chief Justice.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Craig.

Mr. CRAIG. No, thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.

The CHAIRMAN. If not, thank you very much. We appreciate your coming.

Mr. HILL. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Youngblood, will you raise your right hand? Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give before this Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I do, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Be seated, please.

Mr. Specter will conduct the examination.

TESTIMONY OF RUFUS WAYNE YOUNGBLOOD, SPECIAL AGENT, SECRET SERVICE

Mr. SPECTER. Will you state your full name for the record, please?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Rufus Wayne Youngblood.

Mr. SPECTER. How old are you, Mr. Youngblood?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Forty.

Mr. SPECTER. And by whom are you employed?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. The U.S. Secret Service.

Mr. SPECTER. How long have you been so employed?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Since March of 1951.

Mrs. SPECTER. What is your educational background, sir?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I graduated from Georgia Institute of Technology. Bachelor of Industrial Engineering.

Mr. SPECTER. In what year?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. 1949.

Mr. SPECTER. How were you occupied from termination of your college work until starting with the Secret Service?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I worked for Bradshaws, Inc., which was a refrigeration and air-conditioning concern in Waycross, Ga., and then worked for Alvin Lindstrom, who is a consulting mechanical engineer in Atlanta, Ga.

Mr. SPECTER. And would you outline in general terms what your duties have been with the Secret Service since the time you joined them?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I began in the Secret Service as a special agent, criminal investigator, and started off at the Atlanta field office, and stayed there about a year and a half. This time was spent in investigation of Government forged check cases, bond cases, counterfeiting, and similar investigations.

(At this point, Chief Justice Warren withdrew from the hearing room.)

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I came to the Washington, DC. area, and worked in the Washington field office, a continuation of the same type of work I had done in Atlanta, plus the beginning of the protective work, working on temporary assignment at the White House detail. And then in 1953 I was assigned to the White House detail and worked there during the Eisenhower Administration about 6 years, and returned to the Atlanta field office for 3 more years in that area, during which time President Eisenhower would come to Augusta and Albany, and on two occasions on foreign trips I was called in.

And after 3 years in that field office, I returned to Washington again, assigned to the White House detail. The last part of the Eisenhower Administration and the beginning of the Kennedy Administration.

And in March of 1961, I was assigned to the Vice-Presidential detail. This, at that time, was part of the Washington field office. And I have been on an assignment with the Vice-Presidential detail since March 1961, except for a 1-month period when I returned to the White House detail. And then back to the Vice-Presidential detail.

But during this time, the Vice-Presidential detail changed from a field office assignment to a small independent office, and then, later, in October of 1962, when legislation was passed, changing the laws relative to protection of the Vice President, it became a larger detail. And I have been on the Vice-Presidential detail in the occurrence at Dallas, and returned to the White House detail when Mr. Johnson became the President.

And during this period of time, I have been a special agent, assistant special agent in charge, and was scheduled to be the special agent in charge of the Vice-Presidential detail. But due to what occurred in Dallas, I went to the White House as an assistant special agent in charge.

Any other particulars?

Mr. SPECTER. Well, what was your rank at the time of the Dallas trip, specifically on November 22, 1963?

Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I was the assistant special agent in charge of the Vice-Presidential detail.

(At this point, Chief Justice Warren entered the hearing room.)