did. Perhaps he purely waited for an occasion when he could take it

away without my seeing it.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever observe that the rifle had been taken out of the apartment at Neely Street--that is, that it was gone?

Mrs. OSWALD. Before the incident with General Walker, I know that Lee was preparing for something. He took photographs of that house and he told me not to enter his room. I didn't know about these photographs, but when I came into the room once in general he tried to make it so that I would spend less time in that room. I noticed that quite accidentally one time when I was cleaning the room he tried to take care of it himself.

I asked him what kind of photographs are these, but he didn't say anything to me.

Mr. RANKIN. That is the photographs of the Walker house that you were asking about?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. Later, after he had fired, he told me about it.

I didn't know that he intended to do it--that he was planning to do it.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you learn at any time that he had been practicing with the rifle?

Mrs. OSWALD. I think that he went once or twice. I didn't actually see him take the rifle, but I knew that he was practicing.

Mr. RANKIN. Could you give us a little help on how you knew?

Mrs. OSWALD. He told me. And he would mention that in passing--it isn't as if he said, "Well, today I am going"--it wasn't as if he said, "Well, today I am going to take the rifle and go and practice."

But he would say, "Well, today I will take the rifle along for practice."

Therefore, I don't know whether he took it from the house or whether perhaps he even kept the rifle somewhere outside. There was a little square, sort of a little courtyard where he might have kept it.

When you asked me about the rifle, I said that Lee didn't have a rifle, but he also had a gun, a revolver.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall when he first had the pistol, that you remember?

Mrs. OSWALD. He had that on Neely Street, but I think that he acquired the rifle before he acquired the pistol. The pistol I saw twice--once in his room, and the second time when I took these photographs.

Mr. RANKIN. What period of time was there between when he got the rifle and you learned of it, and the time that you first learned about the pistol?

Mrs. OSWALD. I can't say.

Mr. RANKIN. When you testified about his practicing with the rifle, are you describing a period when you were still at Neely Street?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know where he practiced with the rifle?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know where. I don't know the name of the place where this took place. But I think it was somewhere out of town. It seems to me a place called Lopfield.

Mr. RANKIN. Would that be at the airport--Love Field?

Mrs. OSWALD. Love Field.

Mr. RANKIN. So you think he was practicing out in the open and not at a rifle range?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall seeing the rifle when the telescopic lens was on it?

Mrs. OSWALD. I hadn't paid any attention initially.

I know a rifle was a rifle. I didn't know whether or not it had a telescope attached to it. But the first time I remember seeing it was in New Orleans, where I recognized the telescope. But probably the telescope was on before. I simply hadn't paid attention.

I hope you understand. When I saw it, I thought that all rifles have that.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you make any objection to having the rifle around?

Mrs. OSWALD. Of course.

Mr. RANKIN. What did he say to that?

Mrs. OSWALD. That for a man to have a rifle--since I am a woman, I don't understand him, and I shouldn't bother him. A fine life.

Mr. RANKIN. Is that the same rifle that you are referring to that you took the picture of with your husband and when he had the pistol, too?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I asked him then why he had dressed himself up like that, with the rifle and the pistol, and I thought that he had gone crazy, and he said he wanted to send that to a newspaper. This was not my business--it was man's business.

If I had known these were such dangerous toys, of course--you understand that I thought that Lee had changed in that direction, and I didn't think it was a serious occupation with him, just playing around.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the day that you took the picture of him with the rifle and the pistol?

Mrs. OSWALD. I think that that was towards the end of February, possibly the beginning of March. I can't say exactly. Because I didn't attach any significance to it at the time. That was the only time I took any pictures.

I don't know how to take pictures. He gave me a camera and asked me--if someone should ask me how to photograph, I don't know.

Mr. RANKIN. Was it on a day off that you took the picture?

Mrs. OSWALD. It was on a Sunday.

Mr. RANKIN. How did it occur? Did he come to you and ask you to take the picture?

Mrs. OSWALD. I was hanging up diapers, and he came up to me with the rifle and I was even a little scared, and he gave me the camera and asked me to press a certain button.

Mr. RANKIN. And he was dressed up with a pistol at the same time, was he?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. You have examined that picture since, and noticed that the telescopic lens was on at the time the picture was taken, have you not?

Mrs. OSWALD. Now I paid attention to it. A specialist would see it immediately, of course. But at that time I did not pay any attention at all. I saw just Lee. These details are of great significance for everybody, but for me at that time it didn't mean anything. At the time that I was questioned, I had even forgotten that I had taken two photographs. I thought there was only one. I thought that there were two identical pictures, but they turned out to be two different poses.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you have anything to do with the prints of the photograph after the prints were made? That is, did you put them in a photographic album yourself?

Mrs. OSWALD. Lee gave me one photograph and asked me to keep it for June somewhere. Of course June doesn't need photographs like that.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall how long after that the Walker matter occurred?

Mrs. OSWALD. Two, perhaps three weeks later. I don't know. You know better when this happened.

Mr. RANKIN. How did you first learn that your husband had shot at General Walker?

Mrs. OSWALD. That evening he went out, I thought that he had gone to his classes or perhaps that he just walked out or went out on his own business. It got to be about 10 or 10:30, he wasn't home yet, and I began to be worried. Perhaps even later.

Then I went into his room. Somehow, I was drawn into it--you know--I was pacing around. Then I saw a note there.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you look for the gun at that time?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, I didn't understand anything. On the note it said, "If I am arrested" and there are certain other questions, such as, for example, the key to the mailbox is in such and such a place, and that he left me some money to last me for some time, and I couldn't understand at all what can he be arrested for. When he came back I asked him what had happened. He was very pale. I don't remember the exact time, but it was very late.

And he told me not to ask him any questions. He only told me that he had shot at General Walker.

Of course I didn't sleep all night. I thought that any minute now, the police will come. Of course I wanted to ask him a great deal. But in his state I decided I had best leave him alone--it would be purposeless to question him.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he say any more than that about the shooting?

Mrs. OSWALD. Of course in the morning I told him that I was worried, and that we can have a lot of trouble, and I asked him, "Where is the rifle? What did you do with it?"

He said, that he had left it somewhere, that he had buried it, it seems to me, somewhere far from that place, because he said dogs could find it by smell.

I don't know--I am not a criminologist.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you why he had shot at General Walker?

Mrs. OSWALD. I told him that he had no right to kill people in peacetime, he had no right to take their life because not everybody has the same ideas as he has. People cannot be all alike.

He said that this was a very bad man, that he was a fascist, that he was the leader of a fascist organization, and when I said that even though all of that might be true, just the same he had no right to take his life, he said if someone had killed Hitler in time it would have saved many lives. I told him that this is no method to prove your ideas, by means of a rifle.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ask him how long he had been planning to do this?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. He said he had been planning for two months. Yes--perhaps he had planned to do so even earlier, but according to his conduct I could tell he was planning--he had been planning this for two months or perhaps a little even earlier.

The CHAIRMAN. Would you like to take a little recess?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, thank you. Better to get it over with.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he show you a picture of the Walker house then?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. That was after the shooting?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. He had a book--he had a notebook in which he noted down quite a few details. It was all in English, I didn't read it. But I noticed the photograph. Sometimes he would lock himself in his room and write in the book. I thought that he was writing some other kind of memoirs, as he had written about his life in the Soviet Union.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever read that book?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know of anything else he had in it besides this Walker house picture?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. Photographs and notes, and I think there was a map in there.

Mr. RANKIN. There was a map of the area where the Walker house was?

Mrs. OSWALD. It was a map of Dallas, but I don't know where Walker lived. Sometimes evenings he would be busy with this. Perhaps he was calculating something, but I don't know. He had a bus schedule and computed something.

After this had happened, people thought that he had a car, but he had been using a bus.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he explain to you about his being able to use a bus just as well as other people could use a car--something of that kind?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. Simply as a passenger. He told me that even before that time he had gone also to shoot, but he had returned. I don't know why. Because on the day that he did fire, there was a church across the street and there were many people there, and it was easier to merge in the crowd and not be noticed.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ask him about this note that he had left, what he meant by it?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes--he said he had in mind that if in case he were arrested, I would know what to do.

Mr. RANKIN. The note doesn't say anything about Walker, does it?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ask him if that is what he meant by the note?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, because as soon as he came home I showed him the note and asked him "What is the meaning of this?"

Mr. RANKIN. And that is when he gave you the explanation about the Walker shooting?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

I know that on a Sunday he took the rifle, but I don't think he fired on a Sunday. Perhaps this was on Friday. So Sunday he left and took the rifle.

Mr. RANKIN. If the Walker shooting was on Wednesday, does that refresh your memory as to the day of the week at all?

Mrs. OSWALD. Refresh my memory as to what?

Mr. RANKIN. As to the day of the shooting?

Mrs. OSWALD. It was in the middle of the week.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he give any further explanation of what had happened that evening?

Mrs. OSWALD. When he fired, he did not know whether he had hit Walker or not. He didn't take the bus from there. He ran several kilometers and then took the bus. And he turned on the radio and listened, but there were no reports.

The next day he bought a paper and there he read it was only chance that saved Walker's life. If he had not moved, he might have been killed.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he comment on that at all?

Mrs. OSWALD. He said only that he had taken very good aim, that it was just chance that caused him to miss. He was very sorry that he had not hit him.

I asked him to give me his word that he would not repeat anything like that. I said that this chance shows that he must live and that he should not be shot at again. I told him that I would save the note and that if something like that should be repeated again, I would go to the police and I would have the proof in the form of that note.

He said he would not repeat anything like that again.

By the way, several days after that, the De Mohrenschildts came to us, and as soon as he opened the door he said, "Lee, how is it possible that you missed?"

I looked at Lee. I thought that he had told De Mohrenschildt about it. And Lee looked at me, and he apparently thought that I had told De Mohrenschildt about it. It was kind of dark. But I noticed--it was in the evening, but I noticed that his face changed, that he almost became speechless.

You see, other people knew my husband better than I did. Not always--but in this case.

Mr. RANKIN. Was De Mohrenschildt a friend that he told--your husband told him personal things that you knew of?

Mrs. OSWALD. He asked Lee not because Lee had told him about it, but I think because he is smart enough man to have been able to guess it. I don't know--he is simply a liberal, simply a man. I don't think that he is being accused justly of being a Communist.

Mr. RANKIN. That is De Mohrenschildt that you refer to?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you tell the authorities anything about this Walker incident when you learned about it?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. You have told the Secret Service or the FBI people reasons why you didn't. Will you tell us?

Mrs. OSWALD. Why I did not tell about it?

First, because it was my husband. As far as I know, according to the local laws here, a wife cannot be a witness against her husband. But, of course, if I had known that Lee intended to repeat something like that, I would have told.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he ask you to return the note to him?

Mrs. OSWALD. He forgot about it. But apparently after that he thought that what he had written in his book might be proof against him, and he destroyed it.

Mr. RANKIN. That is this book that you have just referred to in which he had the Walker house picture?

Mrs. OSWALD. There was a notebook, yes, that is the one.

Mr. RANKIN. What did you do with the note that he had left for you after you talked about it and said you were going to keep it?

Mrs. OSWALD. I had it among my things in a cookbook. But I have two--I don't remember in which.

Mr. RANKIN. Did your relations with your husband change after this Walker incident?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Will you describe to us the changes as you observed them?

Mrs. OSWALD. Soon after that, Lee lost his job--I don't know for what reason. He was upset by it. And he looked for work for several days. And then I insisted that it would be better for him to go to New Orleans where he had relatives. I insisted on that because I wanted to get him further removed from Dallas and from Walker, because even though he gave me his word, I wanted to have him further away, because a rifle for him was not a very good toy--a toy that was too enticing.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you say that you wanted him to go to New Orleans because of the Walker incident?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. I simply told him that I wanted to see his home town. He had been born there.

Mr. RANKIN. When he promised you that he would not do anything like that again, did you then believe him?

Mrs. OSWALD. I did not quite believe him inasmuch as the rifle remained in the house.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ask him to get rid of the rifle at that time?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. After he shot at Walker, did you notice his taking the rifle out any more to practice?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall when you went to New Orleans?

Mrs. OSWALD. I think it was in May. Lee went there himself, by himself. At that time, I became acquainted with Mrs. Paine, and I stayed with her while he was looking for work. In about one week Lee telephoned me that he had found a job and that I should come down.

Mr. RANKIN. When did you first get acquainted with Mrs. Paine?

Mrs. OSWALD. I think it was a couple of months earlier--probably in January.

Mr. RANKIN. How did you happen to go to Mrs. Paine's house to stay? Did she invite you?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes; she invited me. I had become acquainted with her through some Russian friends of ours. We had visited with some people, and she was there. Inasmuch as she was studying Russian, she invited me to stay with her.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you pay her anything for staying with her?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, I only repaid her in the sense that I helped her in the household and that I gave her Russian language lessons. This, in her words, was the very best pay that I could give her. And she wanted that I remain with her longer.

But, of course, it was better for me to be with my husband.

Mr. RANKIN. How did your husband let you know that he had found a job?

Mrs. OSWALD. He telephoned me.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you then leave at once for New Orleans?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. And how did you get to New Orleans from Dallas?

Mrs. OSWALD. Mrs. Paine took me there in her car. She took her children and my things and we went there.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you have much in the way of household goods to move?

Mrs. OSWALD. Everything--we could put everything into one car. But, in fact, most of the things Lee had taken with him. Because he went by bus.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he take the gun with him to New Orleans?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't remember exactly, but it seems to me that it was not among my things.

Mr. RANKIN. Where did you live at New Orleans?

Mrs. OSWALD. Magazine Street. By the time I arrived there Lee already had rented an apartment.

Mr. RANKIN. When Mrs. Paine brought you down to New Orleans, did she stay with you for any period of time?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, she was there for two days.

Mr. RANKIN. How did Mrs. Paine and your husband get along? Were they friendly?

Mrs. OSWALD. She was very good to us, to Lee and to me, and Lee was quite friendly with her, but he did not like her. I know that he didn't like her.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you why he didn't like her?

Mrs. OSWALD. He considered her to be a stupid woman. Excuse me--these are not my words.

Mr. RANKIN. Were you and Mrs. Paine good friends?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, so-so. I tried to help her as much as I could. But I also--I was--I did not like her too well. I also considered her not to be a very smart woman.

Mr. RANKIN. I think it is about time for a recess, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well. We will take a recess for 10 minutes.

(Brief recess.)

The CHAIRMAN. The Committee will be in order.

Mr. Rankin, you may continue.

Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, did you discuss the Walker shooting with Mrs. Paine?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. I didn't tell anyone. Apart from the FBI. That is after--that is later.

Mr. RANKIN. When was it that you told the FBI about the Walker shooting?

Mrs. OSWALD. About 2 weeks after Lee was killed.

Mr. RANKIN. Before you went to New Orleans, had you seen anyone from the FBI?

Mrs. OSWALD. The FBI visited us in Fort Worth when we lived on Mercedes Street.

Mr. RANKIN. Was that in August 1962?

Mrs. OSWALD. Probably.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know the names of the FBI agents that visited you then?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, I don't remember that Lee had just returned from work and we were getting ready to have dinner when a car drove up and man introduced himself and asked Lee to step out and talk to him.

There was another man in the car. They talked for about 2 hours and I was very angry, because everything had gotten cold. This meant more work for me. I asked who these were, and he was very upset over the fact that the FBI was interested in him.

Mr. RANKIN. Did that interview take place in the car?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband tell you what they said to him and what he said to them?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know to what extent this was true, but Lee said that the FBI had told him that in the event some Russians might visit him and would try to recruit him to work for them, he should notify the FBI agents. I don't know to what extent this was true. But perhaps Lee just said that.

Mr. RANKIN. Did our husband say anything about the FBI asking him to work for them?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, he didn't tell me.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he say anything more about what they said to him in this interview?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, he didn't tell me verbatim, but he said that they saw Communists in everybody and they are very much afraid and inasmuch as I had returned from Russia.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you that they had asked him whether he had acted as an agent or was asked to be an agent for the Russians?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall any other----

Mrs. OSWALD. Excuse me. They did ask him about whether the Russians had proposed that he be an agent for them.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you what he said to them in that regard?

Mrs. OSWALD. He told me that he had answered no.

Mr. RANKIN. After this interview by the FBI agents, do you recall any later interview with them and yourself or your husband before you went to New Orleans?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, there were no other interviews.

The next time was in Irving, when I lived with Mrs. Paine. But that is after I returned from New Orleans.

Mr. RANKIN. At New Orleans, who did your husband work for?

Mrs. OSWALD. He worked for the Louisiana Coffee Co. But I don't know in what capacity. I don't think that this was very good job, or perhaps more correctly, he did not--I know that he didn't like this job.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know what he received in pay from that job?

Mrs. OSWALD. $1.35 an hour, I think. I am not sure.

Mr. RANKIN. How long did he work for this coffee company?

Mrs. OSWALD. I think it was from May until August, to the end of August.

Mr. RANKIN. Was he discharged?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. And then was he unemployed for a time?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. After you had discussed with your husband your going to Russia, was anything done about that?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, I wrote a letter to the Soviet Embassy with a request to be permitted to return. And then it seems to me after I was already in New Orleans, I wrote another letter in which I told the Embassy that my husband wants to return with me.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the date of the first letter that you just referred to?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. But that is easily determined.

Mr. RANKIN. Were you asking for a visa to return to Russia?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you discuss with your husband his returning with you before you wrote the second letter that you have described?

Mrs. OSWALD. I didn't ask him. He asked me to do so one day when he was extremely upset. He appeared to be very unhappy and he said that nothing keeps him here, and that he would not lose anything if he returned to the Soviet Union, and that he wants to be with me. And that it would be better to have less but not to be concerned about tomorrow, not to be worried about tomorrow.

Mr. RANKIN. Was this a change in his attitude?

Mrs. OSWALD. Towards me or towards Russia?

Mr. RANKIN. Towards going to Russia.

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't think that he was too fond of Russia, but simply that he knew that he would have work assured him there, because he had--after all, he had to think about his family.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you know that he did get a passport?

Mrs. OSWALD. It seems to me he always had a passport.

Mr. RANKIN. While he was in New Orleans, that he got a passport?

Mrs. OSWALD. Well, it seems to me that after we came here, he immediately received a passport. I don't know. I always saw his green passport. He even had two--one that had expired, and a new one.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know when the new one was issued?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. It seems to me in the Embassy when we arrived. I don't know.

But please understand me correctly, I am not hiding this. I simply don't know.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know about a letter from your husband to the Embassy asking that his request for a visa be considered separately from yours?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, I don't.

Mr. RANKIN. When you were at New Orleans, did your husband go to school, that you knew of?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he spend his earnings with you and your child?

Mrs. OSWALD. Most of the time, yes. But I know that he became active with some kind of activity in a pro-Cuban committee. I hope that is what you are looking for.

Mr. RANKIN. When did you first notice the rifle at New Orleans?

Mrs. OSWALD. As soon as I arrived in New Orleans.

Mr. RANKIN. Where was it kept there?

Mrs. OSWALD. He again had a closet-like room with his things in it. He had his clothes hanging there, all his other belongings.

Mr. RANKIN. Was the rifle in a cover there?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you notice him take it away from your home there in New Orleans at any time?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. I know for sure that he didn't. But I know that we had a kind of a porch with a--screened-in porch, and I know that sometimes evenings after dark he would sit there with his rifle. I don't know what he did with it. I came there by chance once and saw him just sitting there with his rifle. I thought he is merely sitting there and resting. Of course I didn't like these kind of little jokes.

Mr. RANKIN. Can you give us an idea of how often this happened that you recall?

Mrs. OSWALD. It began to happen quite frequently after he was arrested there in connection with some demonstration and handing out of leaflets.

Mr. RANKIN. Was that the Fair Play for Cuba demonstration?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. From what you observed about his having the rifle on the back porch, in the dark, could you tell whether or not he was trying to practice with the telescopic lens?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I asked him why. But this time he was preparing to go to Cuba.

Mr. RANKIN. That was his explanation for practicing with the rifle?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. He said that he would go to Cuba. I told him I was not going with him--that I would stay here.

Mr. RANKIN. On these occasions when he was practicing with the rifle, would they be three or four times a week in the evening, after the Fair Play for Cuba incident?

Mrs. OSWALD. Almost every evening. He very much wanted to go to Cuba and have the newspapers write that somebody had kidnapped an aircraft. And I asked him "For God sakes, don't do such a thing."

Mr. RANKIN. Did he describe that idea to you?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. And when he told you of it, did he indicate that he wanted to be the one that would kidnap the airplane himself?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he wanted to do that. And he asked me that I should help him with that. But I told him I would not touch that rifle.

This sounds very merry, but I am very much ashamed of it.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you tell him that using the rifle in this way, talking about it, was not in accordance with his agreement with you?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. What did he say about that?

Mrs. OSWALD. He said that everything would go well. He was very self-reliant--if I didn't want to.

Mr. RANKIN. Was there any talk of divorce during this period?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. During this time, we got along pretty well not counting the incidents with Cuba. I say relatively well, because we did not really have--generally he helped me quite a bit and was good to me. But, of course, I did not agree with his views.

Mr. RANKIN. At this time in New Orleans did he discuss with you his views?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. What did he say about that?

Mrs. OSWALD. Mostly--most of the conversations were on the subject of Cuba.

Mr. RANKIN. Was there anything said about the United States--not liking the United States.

Mrs. OSWALD. No. I can't say--he liked some things in Russia, he liked some other things here, didn't like some things there, and didn't like some things here.

And I am convinced that as much as he knew about Cuba, all he knew was from books and so on. He wanted to convince himself. But I am sure that if he had gone there, he would not have liked it there, either. Only on the moon, perhaps.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you what he didn't like about the United States?

Mrs. OSWALD. First of all, he didn't like the fact that there are fascist organizations here. That was one thing.

The second thing, that it was hard to get an education and hard to find work. And that medical expenses were very high.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he say who he blamed for this?

Mrs. OSWALD. He didn't blame anyone.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he ever say anything about President Kennedy?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. At least--I was always interested in President Kennedy and had asked him many times to translate articles in a newspaper or magazine for me, and he always had something good to say. He translated it, but never did comment on it. At least in Lee's behavior--from Lee's behavior I cannot conclude that he was against the President, and therefore the thing is incomprehensible to me. Perhaps he hid it from me. I don't know. He said that after 20 years he would be prime minister. I think that he had a sick imagination--at least at that time I already considered him to be not quite normal--not always, but at times. I always tried to point out to him that he was a man like any others who were around us. But he simply could not understand that.

I tried to tell him that it would be better to direct his energies to some more practical matters, and not something like that.

Mr. RANKIN. Can you tell us what you observed about him that caused you to think he was different?

Mrs. OSWALD. At least his imagination, his fantasy, which was quite unfounded, as to the fact that he was an outstanding man. And then the fact that he was very much interested, exceedingly so, in autobiographical works of outstanding statesmen of the United States and others.

Mr. RANKIN. Was there anything else of that kind that caused you to think that he was different?

Mrs. OSWALD. I think that he compared himself to these people whose autobiographies he read. That seems strange to me, because it is necessary to have an education in order to achieve success of that kind. After he became busy with his pro-Cuban activity, he received a letter from somebody in New York, some Communist--probably from New York--I am not sure from where--from some Communist leader and he was very happy, he felt that this was a great man that he had received the letter from.

You see, when I would make fun of him, of his activity to some extent, in the sense that it didn't help anyone really, he said that I didn't understand him, and here, you see, was proof that someone else did, that there were people who understood his activity.

I would say that to Lee--that Lee could not really do much for Cuba, that Cuba would get along well without him, if they had to.

Mr. RANKIN. You would tell that to him?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. And what would he say in return?

Mrs. OSWALD. He shrugged his shoulders and kept his own opinion. He was even interested in the airplane schedules, with the idea of kidnapping a plane. But I talked him out of it.

Mr. RANKIN. The airplane schedules from New Orleans?

Mrs. OSWALD. New Orleans--but--from New Orleans--leaving New Orleans in an opposite direction. And he was going to make it turn around and go to Cuba.

Mr. RANKIN. He discussed this with you?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. When did his Fair Play for Cuba activity occur--before or after he lost his job?

Mrs. OSWALD. After he lost his job. I told him it would be much better if he were working, because when he didn't work he was busy with such foolishness.

Mr. RANKIN. What did he say about that?

Mrs. OSWALD. Nothing. And it is at that time that I wrote a letter to Mrs. Paine telling her that Lee was out of work, and they invited me to come and stay with her. And when I left her, I knew that Lee would go to Mexico City. But, of course, I didn't tell Mrs. Paine about it.

Mr. RANKIN. Had he discussed with you the idea of going to Mexico City?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. When did he first discuss that?

Mrs. OSWALD. I think it was in August.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you why he wanted to go to Mexico City?

Mrs. OSWALD. From Mexico City he wanted to go to Cuba--perhaps through the Russian Embassy in Mexico somehow he would be able to get to Cuba.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he say anything about going to Russia by way of Cuba?

Mrs. OSWALD. I know that he said that in the embassy. But he only said so. I know that he had no intention of going to Russia then.

Mr. RANKIN. How do you know that?

Mrs. OSWALD. He told me. I know Lee fairly well--well enough from that point of view.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you that he was going to Cuba and send you on to Russia?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, he proposed that after he got to Cuba, that I would go there, too, somehow.

But he also said that after he was in Cuba, and if he might go to Russia, he would let me know in any case.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he discuss Castro and the Cuban Government with you?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. When did he start to do that?

Mrs. OSWALD. At the time that he was busy with that pro-Cuban activity. He was sympathetic to Castro while in Russia, and I have also a good opinion of Castro to the extent that I know. I don't know anything bad about him.

Mr. RANKIN. What did he say about Castro to you?

Mrs. OSWALD. He said that he is a very smart statesman, very useful for his government, and very active.

Mr. RANKIN. What did you say to him?

Mrs. OSWALD. I said, "Maybe." It doesn't make any difference to me.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you know he was writing to the Fair Play for Cuba organization in New York during this latter period in New Orleans?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he show you that correspondence?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. How did you learn that?

Mrs. OSWALD. He told me about it. Or, more correctly, I saw that he was writing to them.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you write the Russian Embassy in regard to your visa from New Orleans.

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall what address you gave in New Orleans when you wrote?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, I don't remember. Sometimes I would write a letter, but Lee would insert the address and would mail the letters. That is why I don't remember.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you get your mail in New Orleans at your apartment or at a post office box?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, we had a post office box, and that is where we received our mail.

Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband have any organization in his Fair Play for Cuba at New Orleans?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, he had no organization. He was alone. He was quite alone.

Mr. RANKIN. When did you learn about his arrest there?

Mrs. OSWALD. The next day, when he was away from home overnight and returned, he told me he had been arrested.

Mr. RANKIN. What did he say about it?

Mrs. OSWALD. He was smiling, but in my opinion he was upset. I think that after that occurrence--he became less active, he cooled off a little.

Mr. RANKIN. Less active in the Fair Play for Cuba?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. He continued it, but more for a person's sake. I think that his heart was no longer in it.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you that the FBI had seen him at the jail in New Orleans?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he complain about his arrest and say it was unfair, anything of that kind.

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you know he paid a fine?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you have anything to do with trying to get him out of jail?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

He was only there for 24 hours. He paid his fine and left. He said that the policeman who talked to him was very kind, and was a very good person.

Mr. RANKIN. While you were in New Orleans, did you get to know the Murrets?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. They are his relatives. I think that Lee engaged in this activity primarily for purposes of self-advertising. He wanted to be arrested. I think he wanted to get into the newspapers, so that he would be known.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you think he wanted to be advertised and known as being in support of Cuba before he went to Cuba?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you think he thought that would help him when he got to Cuba?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you anything about that, or is that just what you guess?

Mrs. OSWALD. He would collect the newspaper clippings about his--when the newspapers wrote about him, and he took these clippings with him when he went to Mexico.

Mr. RANKIN. Did the Murrets come to visit you from time to time in New Orleans?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes--sometimes they came to us, and sometimes we went to them.

Mr. RANKIN. Was that a friendly relationship?

Mrs. OSWALD. I would say that they were more of a family relationship type. They were very good to us. His uncle, that is the husband of his aunt, was a very good man. He tried to reason with Lee after that incident. Lee liked them very much as relatives but he didn't like the fact that they were all very religious.

When his uncle, or, again, the husband of his aunt would tell him that he must approach things with a more serious attitude, and to worry about himself and his family, Lee would say, "Well, these are just bourgeois, who are only concerned with their own individual welfare."

Mr. KRIMER. The word Mrs. Oswald used is not quite bourgeois, but it is a person of a very narrow viewpoint who is only concerned with his own personal interests, inclined to be an egotist.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you hear the discussion when the uncle talked about this Fair Play for Cuba and his activities?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. What did the uncle say to your husband about that?

Mrs. OSWALD. At that time. I did not know English too well, and Lee would not interpret for me. He only nodded his head. But I knew that he did not agree with his uncle. His uncle said that he condemned that kind of activity.

Mr. RANKIN. What was your husband's attitude about your learning English?

Mrs. OSWALD. He never talked English to me at home, and did not give me any instruction. This was strictly my own business. But he did want me to learn English. But that was my own concern. I had to do that myself somehow. That is the truth.

Mr. RANKIN. Did any of your Russian friends visit you at New Orleans?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Outside of the Murrets, were there some people from New Orleans that visited you at your home in New Orleans?

Mrs. OSWALD. Once or twice a woman visited who was a friend of Ruth Paine's. Ruth Paine has written her. She had written to Ruth Paine to find out whether she knew any Russians there. And once or twice this woman visited us. But other than that, no one.

Mr. RANKIN. What was the name of this woman?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't remember. I only remember that her first name is also Ruth.

Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband have friends of his that visited you there at New Orleans?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, never.

Once some time after Lee was arrested, on a Saturday or a Sunday morning, a man came early and questioned Lee about the activity of the allegedly existing organization, which really did not exist. Because in the newspaper accounts Lee was described as a member and even the leader of that organization, which in reality did not exist at all.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know who that was?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, I don't. I asked Lee who that was, and he said that is probably some anti-Cuban, or perhaps an FBI agent. He represented himself as a man who was sympathetic to Cuba but Lee did not believe him.

Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband ever tell you what he told the FBI agent when they came to the jail to see him?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. After you wrote Mrs. Paine, did she come at once in response to your letter to take you back to Dallas?

Mrs. OSWALD. Not quite at once. She came about a month later. She apparently was on vacation at that time, and said that she would come after her vacation.

Mr. RANKIN. Didn't she indicate that she was going to come around September 30, and then came a little before that?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. In her letter to me she indicated that she would come either the 20th or the 21st of September, and she did come at that time.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you move your household goods in her station wagon at that time?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know whether or not the rifle was carried in the station wagon?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, it was.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you have anything to do with loading it in there?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. Lee was loading everything on because I was pregnant at the time. But I know that Lee loaded the rifle on.

Mr. RANKIN. Was the rifle carried in some kind of a case when you went back with Mrs. Paine?

Mrs. OSWALD. After we arrived. I tried to put the bed, the child's crib together, the metallic parts, and I looked for a certain part, and I came upon something wrapped in a blanket. I thought that was part of the bed, but it turned out to be the rifle.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you remember whether the pistol was carried back in Mrs. Paine's car too?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know where the pistol was.

Mr. RANKIN. Before you went back to Mrs. Paine's house, did you discuss whether you would be paying her anything for board and room?

Mrs. OSWALD. She proposed that I again live with her on the same conditions as before. Because this was more advantageous for her than to pay a school. She received better instruction that way.

In any case, she didn't spend any extra money for me--she didn't spend any more than she usually spent.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you give her lessons in Russian?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, these were not quite lessons. It was more in the nature of conversational practice. And then I also helped her to prepare Russian lessons for the purpose of teaching Russian.

Mr. RANKIN. When you found the rifle wrapped in the blanket, upon your return to Mrs. Paine's, where was it located?

Mrs. OSWALD. In the garage, where all the rest of the things were.

Mr. RANKIN. In what part of the garage?

Mrs. OSWALD. In that part which is closer to the street, because that garage is connected to the house. One door opens on the kitchen, and the other out in the street.

Mr. RANKIN. Was the rifle lying down or was it standing up on the butt end?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, it was lying down on the floor.

Mr. RANKIN. When your husband talked about going to Mexico City, did he say where he was going to go there, who he would visit?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. He said that he would go to the Soviet Embassy and to the Cuban Embassy and would do everything he could in order to get to Cuba.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you where he would stay in Mexico City?

Mrs. OSWALD. In a hotel.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you the name?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, he didn't know where he would stop.

Mr. RANKIN. Was there any discussion about the expense of making the trip?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. But we always lived very modestly, and Lee always had some savings. Therefore, he had the money for it.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he say how much it would cost?

Mrs. OSWALD. He had a little over $100 and he said that that would be sufficient.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he talk about getting you a silver bracelet or any presents before he went?

Mrs. OSWALD. It is perhaps more truth to say that he asked me what I would like, and I told him that I would like Mexican silver bracelets. But what he did buy me I didn't like at all. When he returned to Irving, from Mexico City, and I saw the bracelet, I was fairly sure that he had bought it in New Orleans and not in Mexico City, because I had seen bracelets like that for sale there. That is why I am not sure that the bracelet was purchased in Mexico.

Lee had an identical bracelet which he had bought in either Dallas or New Orleans. It was a man's bracelet.

Mr. RANKIN. The silver bracelet he gave you when he got back had your name on it, did it not?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Was it too small?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, I was offended because it was too small, and he promised to exchange it. But, of course, I didn't want to hurt him, and I said, thank you, the important thing is the thought, the attention.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he discuss other things that he planned to do in Mexico City, such as see the bullfights or jai alai games or anything of that kind?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, I was already questioned about this game by the FBI, but I never heard of it. But I had asked Lee to buy some Mexican records, but he did not do that.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know how he got to Mexico City?

Mrs. OSWALD. By bus.

Mr. RANKIN. And did he return by bus, also?

Mrs. OSWALD. It seems, yes. Yes, he told me that a round-trip ticket was cheaper than two one-way tickets.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you learn that he had a tourist card to go to Mexico?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. If he had such a card, you didn't know it then?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. After he had been to Mexico City, did he come back to Irving or to Dallas?

Mrs. OSWALD. When Lee returned I was already in Irving and he telephoned me. But he told me that he had arrived the night before and had spent the night in Dallas, and called me in the morning.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he say where he had been in Dallas?

Mrs. OSWALD. It seems to me at the YMcA.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he come right out to see you then?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you anything about his trip to Mexico City?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he told me that he had visited the two embassies, that he had received nothing, that the people who are there are too much--too bureaucratic. He said that he has spent the time pretty well. And I had told him that if he doesn't accomplish anything to at least take a good rest. I was hoping that the climate, if nothing else, would be beneficial to him.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ask him what he did the rest of the time?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, I think he said that he visited a bull fight, that he spent most of his time in museums, and that he did some sightseeing in the city.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you about anyone that he met there?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

He said that he did not like the Mexican girls.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you anything about what happened at the Cuban Embassy, or consulate?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. Only that he had talked to certain people there.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you what people he talked to?

Mrs. OSWALD. He said that he first visited the Soviet Embassy in the hope that having been there first this would make it easier for him at the Cuban Embassy. But there they refused to have anything to do with him.

Mr. RANKIN. And what did he say about the visit to the Cuban Embassy or consulate?

Mrs. OSWALD. It was quite without results.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he complain about the consular or any of the officials of the Cuban Embassy and the way they handled the matter?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he called them bureaucrats. He said that the Cubans seemed to have a system similar to the Russians--too much red tape before you get through there.

Mr. RANKIN. Is there anything else that he told you about the Mexico City trip that you haven't related?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, that is all that I can remember about it.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall how long he was gone on his trip to Mexico City?

Mrs. OSWALD. All of this took approximately 2 weeks, from the time that I left New Orleans, until the time that he returned.

Mr. RANKIN. And from the time he left the United States to go to Mexico City to his return, was that about 7 days?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. He said he was there for about a week.

Mr. RANKIN. When you were asked before about the trip to Mexico, you did not say that you knew anything about it. Do you want to explain to the Commission how that happened?

Mrs. OSWALD. Most of these questions were put to me by the FBI. I do not like them too much. I didn't want to be too sincere with them. Though I was quite sincere and answered most of their questions. They questioned me a great deal, and I was very tired of them, and I thought that, well, whether I knew about it or didn't know about it didn't change matters at all, it didn't help anything, because the fact that Lee had been there was already known, and whether or not I knew about it didn't make any difference.

Mr. RANKIN. Was that the only reason that you did not tell about what you knew of the Mexico City trip before?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, because the first time that they asked me I said no, I didn't know anything about it. And in all succeeding discussions I couldn't very well have said I did. There is nothing special in that. It wasn't because this was connected with some sort of secret.

Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband stay with you at the Paines after that first night when he returned from Mexico?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he stayed overnight there.

And in the morning we took him to Dallas.

Mr. RANKIN. And by "we" who do you mean?

Mrs. OSWALD. Ruth Paine, I and her children.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know what he did in Dallas, then?

Mrs. OSWALD. He intended to rent an apartment in the area of Oak Cliff, and to look for work.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know whether he did that?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, I know that he always tried to get some work. He was not lazy.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he rent the apartment?

Mrs. OSWALD. On the same day he rented a room, not an apartment, and he telephoned me and told me about it.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you discuss the plans for this room before you took him to Dallas?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. I asked him where he would live, and he said it would be best if he rented a room, it would not be as expensive as an apartment.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he say anything about whether you would be living with him, or he would be living there alone?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, I did not really want to be with Lee at that time, because I was expecting, and it would have been better to be with a woman who spoke English and Russian.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know where your husband looked for work in Dallas at that time?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. He tried to get any kind of work. He answered ads, newspaper ads.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he have trouble finding work again?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. How long after his return was it before he found a job?

Mrs. OSWALD. Two to three weeks.

Mr. RANKIN. When he was unemployed in New Orleans, did he get unemployment compensation?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know how much he was getting then?

Mrs. OSWALD. $33 a week. It is possible to live on that money. One can fail to find work and live. Perhaps you don't believe me. It is not bad to rest and receive money.

Mr. RANKIN. When he was unemployed in Dallas, do you know whether he received unemployment compensation?

Mrs. OSWALD. We were due to receive unemployment compensation, but it was getting close to the end of his entitlement period, and we received one more check.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you discuss with him possible places of employment after his return from Mexico?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. That was his business. I couldn't help him in that. But to some extent I did help him find a job, because I was visiting Mrs. Paine's neighbors. There was a woman there who told me where he might find some work.

Mr. RANKIN. And when was this?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't remember. If that is important, I can try and ascertain date. But I think you probably know.

Mr. RANKIN. Was it shortly before he obtained work?

Mrs. OSWALD. As soon as we got the information, the next day he went there and he did get the job.

Mr. RANKIN. And who was it that you got the information from?

Mrs. OSWALD. It was the neighbor whose brother was employed by the school book depository. He said it seemed to him there was a vacancy there.

Mr. RANKIN. What was his name?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I think we have arrived at our adjournment time. We will recess now until tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock.

(Whereupon, at 4:30 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)

_Tuesday, February 4, 1964_

TESTIMONY OF MRS. LEE HARVEY OSWALD RESUMED

The President's Commission met at 10 a.m. on February 4, 1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C.

Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman; Senator John Sherman Cooper, Representative Hale Boggs, Representative Gerald R. Ford, John J. McCloy, and Allen W. Dulles, members.

Also present were J. Lee Rankin, general counsel; Norman Redlich, assistant counsel; Leon I. Gopadze and William D. Krimer, interpreters; and John M. Thorne, attorney for Mrs. Lee Harvey Oswald.

The CHAIRMAN. The Commission will be in order.

Mr. Rankin, will you proceed with the questioning of Mrs. Oswald.

Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, there are a number of things about some of the material we have been over, the period we have been over, that I would like to ask you about, sort of to fill in different parts of it. I hope you will bear with us in regard to that.

Were you aware of the diary that your husband had written and the book that he had typed?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he hire a public stenographer to help him with his book?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, he wrote his in longhand. He started it in Russia. But he had it retyped here because it had been in longhand.

Mr. RANKIN. And do you know about when he started to have it retyped here?

Mrs. OSWALD. We arrived in June. I think it was at the end of June.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know what happened to that book, or a copy of it?

Mrs. OSWALD. At the present time it is--I don't know where--the police department or the FBI.

Mr. RANKIN. And what was done with the diary? Do you know that?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know where it is now. I know that it was taken. But where it is now, I don't know.

Mr. RANKIN. It was taken by either the FBI or the Secret Service or the police department?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know that, because I was not at home when all these things were taken.

Mr. RANKIN. Would you tell us about what you know about their being taken. Were you away from home and someone else was there when various things belonging to you and your husband were taken from the house?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know where this book was, whether it was at Mrs. Paine's or in Lee's apartment, because I did not see it there. I was not at Mrs. Paine's because I lived in a hotel at that time in Dallas.

Mr. RANKIN. What hotel was that?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know.

Mr. RANKIN. Was this diary kept by your husband daily, so far as you know?

Mrs. OSWALD. In Russia?

Mr. RANKIN. Well, Russia first.

Mrs. OSWALD. It seems to me that he did not continue it here, that he had completed it in Russia. Not everything, but most of the time.

Mr. RANKIN. And was it in his own handwriting?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. You have told us about an interview with the FBI, when your husband went out into the car and spent a couple of hours, in August of 1962. Do you recall whether there was an FBI interview earlier than that?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, there wasn't. At least I don't know about it. Perhaps there was such a meeting, perhaps at the time we were in Fort Worth somebody had come, when we lived with Robert. One reporter wanted to interview Lee but Lee would not give the interview, and perhaps the FBI came, too.

Mr. RANKIN. The particular interview that I am asking you about was June 26, according to information from the FBI.

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know about it. The first time I knew about the FBI coming was when we lived in Fort Worth.

Mr. RANKIN. What rental did you pay on Mercedes Street?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't remember.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you have any difficulties while you were on Mercedes Street with your husband--that is, any quarreling there?

Mrs. OSWALD. Only in connection with his mother, because of his mother.

Mr. RANKIN. Were you having any problems about finances there, on Mercedes Street?

Mrs. OSWALD. Of course we did not live in luxury. We did not buy anything that was not absolutely needed, because Lee had to pay his debt to Robert and to the government. But it was not particularly difficult. At least on that basis we had not had any quarrels.

Mr. RANKIN. Could you tell us about De Mohrenschildt? Was he a close friend of your husband?

Mrs. OSWALD. Lee did not have any close friends, but at least he had--here in America--he had a great deal of respect for De Mohrenschildt.

Mr. RANKIN. Could you describe that relationship. Did they see each other often?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, not very frequently. From time to time.

Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband tell you why he had so much respect for De Mohrenschildt?

Mrs. OSWALD. Because he considered him to be smart, to be full of joy of living, a very energetic and very sympathetic person.

Mr. RANKIN. We had a report that----

Mrs. OSWALD. Excuse me. It was pleasant to meet with him. He would bring some pleasure and better atmosphere when he came to visit--with his dogs--he is very loud.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you like him?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. Him and his wife.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you understand any of the conversations between your husband and De Mohrenschildt?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, they were held in Russian.

Mr. RANKIN. Did they discuss politics or the Marxist philosophy or anything of that kind?

Mrs. OSWALD. Being men, of course, sometimes they talked about politics, but they did not discuss Marxist philosophy. They spoke about current political events.

Mr. RANKIN. Did they have any discussions about President Kennedy or the Government in the United States at that time?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, only George said that before she got married he knew Jackie Kennedy, that she was a very good, very sympathetic woman. Then he was writing a book, that is George, and with reference to that book he had written a letter to President Kennedy. This was with reference to the fact that John Kennedy had recommended physical exercise, walking and so on, and De Mohrenschildt and his wife had walked to the Mexican border. And he hoped that John Kennedy would recommend his book.

I don't know--perhaps this is foolishness.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he say anything, or either of them say anything about President Kennedy at that time?

Mrs. OSWALD. Nothing bad.

Mr. RANKIN. When you referred to George, did you mean Mr. De Mohrenschildt?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I generally didn't believe him, that he had written a book. Sometimes he could say so, but just for amusement.

Mr. RANKIN. Did De Mohrenschildt have a daughter?

Mrs. OSWALD. He had several daughters, and many wives.

Mr. RANKIN. Was one of his daughters named Taylor, her last name?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. That is a daughter of his first marriage. At the present time, I think he has--that is his fourth wife.

Mr. RANKIN. And what was her----

Mrs. OSWALD. It seems that that is the last one.

Mr. RANKIN. What was her husband's name--the Taylor daughter?

Mrs. OSWALD. Gary Taylor.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you have anything to do with the Gary Taylors?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, at one time when I had to visit the dentist in Dallas, and I lived in Fort Worth, I came to Dallas and I stayed with them for a couple of days.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know about when that was?

Mrs. OSWALD. October or November, 1962.

Mr. RANKIN. Did Gary Taylor help you to move your things at one time, move you and your daughter?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he moved our things from Fort Worth to Dallas, to Elsbeth Street.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he help you to move to Mrs. Hall's at any time, anyone else?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, he did not move me to Mrs. Hall. But sometimes he came for a visit. Once or twice I think he came when we lived--to Mrs. Hall's, and once when we lived on Mercedes Street.

Mr. RANKIN. What did he do when he came? Were those just visits?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, just visits. Just visits, with his wife and child.

Mr. RANKIN. When the De Mohrenschildts came to the house and you showed them the rifle, did you say anything about it?

Mrs. OSWALD. Perhaps I did say something to him, but I don't remember.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you say anything like "Look what my crazy one has done? Bought a rifle" or something of that kind?

Mrs. OSWALD. This sounds like something I might say. Perhaps I did.

Mr. RANKIN. In the period of October 1962, you did spend some time with Mrs. Hall, did you not, in her home?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Will you tell us about how that happened?

Mrs. OSWALD. When Lee found work in Dallas, Elena Hall proposed that I stay with her for some time, because she was alone, and I would be company.

Mr. RANKIN. Did that have anything to do with any quarrels with your husband?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. During that period of October of 1962, when your husband went to Dallas to get work, do you know where he lived?

Mrs. OSWALD. I know that for--at first, for some time he stayed at the YMcA, but later he rented an apartment, but I don't know at what address. Because in the letters which he wrote me, the return address was a post office box.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know whether he stayed during that period part of the time with Gary Taylor?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Where did you live while your husband was looking for work and staying at the YMcA and at this apartment that you referred to?

Mrs. OSWALD. When he stayed at the YMcA he had already found work, and I was in Fort Worth.

Mr. RANKIN. And where in Fort Worth were you staying then?

Mrs. OSWALD. With Mrs. Hall.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you notice a change, psychologically, in your husband during this period in the United States?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. When did you first notice that change?

Mrs. OSWALD. At--at Elsbeth Street, in Dallas. After the visit of the FBI, in Fort Worth. He was for some time nervous and irritable.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he seem to have two different personalities then?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Would you describe to the Commission what he did to cause you to think that he was changing?

Mrs. OSWALD. Generally he was--usually he was quite as he always was. He used to help me. And he was a good family man. Sometimes, apparently without reason, at least I did not know reasons, if any existed, he became quite a stranger. At such times it was impossible to ask him anything. He simply kept to himself. He was irritated by trifles.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall any of the trifles that irritated him, so as to help us to know the picture?

Mrs. OSWALD. It is hard to remember any such trifling occurrences, sometimes such a small thing as, for example, dinner being five minutes late, and I do mean five minutes--it is not that I am exaggerating--he would be very angry. Or if there were no butter on the table, because he hadn't brought it from the icebox, he would with great indignation ask, "Why is there no butter?" And at the same time if I had put the butter on the table he wouldn't have touched it.

This is foolishness, of course. A normal person doesn't get irritated by things like that.

Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, I do not ask these questions to pry into your personal affairs, but it gives us some insight into what he did and why he might have done the things he did.

I hope you understand that.

Mrs. OSWALD. I understand.

Mr. RANKIN. Could you tell us a little about when he did beat you because we have reports that at times neighbors saw signs of his having beat you, so that we might know the occasions and why he did such things.

Mrs. OSWALD. The neighbors simply saw that because I have a very sensitive skin, and even a very light blow would show marks. Sometimes it was my own fault. Sometimes it was really necessary to just leave him alone. But I wanted more attention. He was jealous. He had no reason to be. But he was jealous of even some of my old friends, old in the sense of age.

Mr. RANKIN. When he became jealous, did he discuss that with you?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, of course.

Mr. RANKIN. What did he say?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't remember.

Basically, that I prefer others to him. That I want many things which he cannot give me. But that was not so. Once we had a quarrel because I had a young man who was a boyfriend--this was before we were married, a boy who was in love with me, and I liked him, too. And I had written him a letter from here. I had--I wrote him that I was very lonely here, that Lee had changed a great deal, and that I was sorry that I had not married him instead, that it would have been much easier for me. I had mailed that letter showing the post office box as a return address. But this was just the time when the postage rates went up by one cent, and the letter was returned. Lee brought that letter and asked me what it was and forced me to read it. But I refused. Then he sat down across from me and started to read it to me. I was very much ashamed of my foolishness. And, of course, he hit me, but he did not believe that this letter was sincere. He asked me if it was true or not, and I told him that it was true. But he thought that I did it only in order to tease him. And that was the end of it. It was a very ill-considered thing.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall anything more that he said at that time about that matter?

Mrs. OSWALD. Of course after he hit me, he said that I should be ashamed of myself for saying such things because he was very much in love with me. But this was after he hit me.

Generally, I think that was right, for such things, that is the right thing to do. There was some grounds for it.

Please excuse me. Perhaps I talk too much.

Mr. RANKIN. When you had your child baptized, did you discuss that with your husband?

Mrs. OSWALD. I knew that Lee was not religious, and, therefore, I did not tell him about it. I lived in Fort Worth at that time, while he lived in Dallas.

But when June was baptized, I told him about it, and he didn't say anything about it. He said it was my business. And he said, "Okay, if you wish." He had nothing against it. He only took offense at the fact that I hadn't told him about it ahead of time.

Mr. RANKIN. Are you a member of any church?

Mrs. OSWALD. I believe in God, of course, but I do not go to church--first because I do not have a car. And, secondly, because there is only one Russian Church. Simply that I believe in God in my own heart, and I don't think it is necessary to visit the church.

Mr. RANKIN. While your husband--or while you were visiting the Halls, did your husband tell you about getting his job in Dallas?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I knew about it before he left for Dallas, that he already had work there.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall whether your husband rented the apartment in Dallas about November 3, 1962?

Mrs. OSWALD. For him?

Mr. RANKIN. Yes.

Mrs. OSWALD. He had told me that he rented a room, not an apartment. But that was in October.

What date I don't know.

Mr. RANKIN. And had he obtained an apartment before you went to Dallas to live with him?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. Cleaned everything up.

Mr. RANKIN. So that you would have gone to Dallas to live with him some time on or about the date that he rented that apartment?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. After you went to live with him in the apartment at Dallas, did you separate from him again and go to live with somebody else?

Mrs. OSWALD. Only after this quarrel. Then I stayed with my friends for one week. I had already told you about that.

Mr. RANKIN. That is the Meller matter?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall that you called Mrs. Meller and told her about your husband beating you and she told you to get a cab and come to stay with her?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, but he didn't beat me.

Mr. RANKIN. And you didn't tell her that he had beat you, either?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't think so. Perhaps she understood it that he had beaten me, because it had happened.

Mr. RANKIN. Can you give us any more exact account of where your husband stayed in the period between October 10 and November 18, 1962?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't remember his exact address. This was a period when I did not live with him.

I am asking about which period is it. I don't remember the dates.

Mr. RANKIN. The period that he rented the apartment was November 3, so that shortly after that, as I understood your testimony, you were with him, from November 3, or about November 3 on to the 18th. Is that right?

Mrs. OSWALD. From November 3 to November 18, 1962? On Elsbeth Street? No, I was there longer.

Mr. RANKIN. And do you recall the date that you went to Mrs. Hall's, then?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, I don't remember. The day when he rented the apartment was a Sunday. But where he lived before that, I don't know.

Mr. RANKIN. After you went to live with him in the apartment, around November 3, how long did you stay before you went to live with your friend?

Mrs. OSWALD. Approximately a month and a half. Perhaps a month. I am not sure.

Mr. RANKIN. And when you were at Fort Worth, and he was living in Dallas, did he call you from time to time on the telephone?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he called me and he wrote letters and sometimes he came for a visit.

Mr. RANKIN. And during that time, did he tell you where he was staying?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he said that he had rented a room, but he did not tell me his address.

I want to help you, but I don't know.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you think there was something in your husband's life in America, his friends and so forth, that caused him to be different here?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, he had no friends who had any influence over him. He himself had changed by comparison to the way he was in Russia. But what the reason for that was, I don't know.

Am I giving sufficient answers to your questions?

Mr. RANKIN. You are doing fine.

Did your consideration of a divorce from your husband have anything to do with his ideas and political opinions?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. The only reasons were personal ones with reference to our personal relationship, not political reasons.

Mr. RANKIN. In your story you say that what was involved was some of his crazy ideas and political opinions. Can you tell us what you meant by that?

Mrs. OSWALD. This was after the case, after the matter of the divorce. I knew that Lee had such political leanings.

Mr. RANKIN. With regard to your Russian friends, did you find the time when they came less to see you and didn't show as much interest in you?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Can you give us about the time, just approximately when you noticed that difference?

Mrs. OSWALD. Soon after arriving in Dallas. Mostly it was De Mohrenschildt who visited us. He was the only one who remained our friend. The others sort of removed themselves.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know why that was?

Mrs. OSWALD. Because they saw that Lee's attitude towards them was not very proper, he was not very hospitable, and he was not glad to see them. They felt that he did not like them.

Mr. RANKIN. Will you describe what you observed that caused you to think this, or how your husband acted in regard to these friends?

Mrs. OSWALD. He told me that he did not like them, that he did not want them to come to visit.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he show any signs of that attitude towards them?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he was not very talkative when they came for a visit. Sometimes he would even quarrel with them.

Mr. RANKIN. When he quarreled with them, was it in regard to political ideas or what subjects?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, they would not agree with him when he talked on political matters.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall any conversation that you can describe to us?

Mrs. OSWALD. Of course it is difficult to remember all the conversations. But I know that they had a difference of opinion with reference to political matters. My Russian friends did not approve of everything. I am trying to formulate it more exactly. They did not like the fact that he was an American who had gone to Russia. I think that is all. All that I can remember.

Mr. RANKIN. What did they say about----

Mrs. OSWALD. Excuse me. Simply I would be busy, and I didn't listen to the conversation.

Mr. RANKIN. Can you recall anything else about the conversation or the substance of it?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. When did you first consider the possibility of returning to the Soviet Union?

Mrs. OSWALD. I never considered that, but I was forced to because Lee insisted on it.

Mr. RANKIN. When you considered it, as you were forced to, by his insistence, do you know when it was with reference to your first request to the Embassy, which was February 17, 1963?

Mrs. OSWALD. February 17?

Mr. RANKIN. Yes.

Mrs. OSWALD. I think it was a couple of weeks before that, at the beginning of February.

Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband know about the letter you sent to the Embassy on February 17?

Mrs. OSWALD. Of course. He handed me the paper, a pencil, and said, "Write."

Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you what to put in the letter, or was that your own drafting?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, I knew myself what I had to write, and these were my words. What could I do if my husband didn't want to live with me? At least that is what I thought.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever have arguments with your husband about smoking and drinking wine, other things like that?

Mrs. OSWALD. About drinking wine, no. But he didn't like the fact that I smoked, because he neither smoked nor drank. It would have been better if he had smoked and drank.

Mr. RANKIN. Can you tell us approximately when you first met Ruth Paine?

Mrs. OSWALD. Soon after New Years--I think it was in January.

Mr. RANKIN. Would that be 1963?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Can you describe the circumstances when you met her?

Mrs. OSWALD. We were invited, together with George De Mohrenschildt and his wife, to the home of his friend, an American. And Ruth was acquainted with that American. She was also visiting there. And there were a number of other people there, Americans.

Mr. RANKIN. Who was this friend? Do you recall?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't remember his last name. If you would suggest, perhaps I could say.

Mr. RANKIN. Was that Mr. Glover?

Mrs. OSWALD. What is his first name?

Mr. RANKIN. Everett.

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I don't know his last name.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you talk to Mrs. Paine in Russian at that time?

Mrs. OSWALD. A little, yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did Mrs. Paine ever visit you at Elsbeth Street?

Mrs. OSWALD. At Neely, on Neely Street.

Mr. RANKIN. But not at Elsbeth?

Mrs. OSWALD. We moved soon after that acquaintance.

Mr. RANKIN. How did your husband treat June? Was he a good father?

Mrs. OSWALD. Oh, yes, very good.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you notice any difference in his attitude towards your child after you saw this change in his personality?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Will you describe to the Commission how your husband treated the baby, and some of his acts, what he did?

Mrs. OSWALD. He would walk with June, play with her, feed her, change diapers, take photographs--everything that fathers generally do.

Mr. RANKIN. He showed considerable affection for her at all times, did he?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. If I would punish June, he would punish me.

Mr. RANKIN. When did you first meet Michael Paine?

Mrs. OSWALD. After I became acquainted with Ruth and she visited me for the first time, she asked me to come for a visit to her. This was on a Friday. Her husband, Michael, came for us and drove us to their home in Irving.

Mr. RANKIN. They were living together at that time, were they?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Did Michael Paine know Russian?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. At the time of the Walker incident, do you recall whether your husband had his job or had lost it?

Mrs. OSWALD. You had said that this had happened on a Wednesday, and it seems to me that it was on a Friday that he was told that he was discharged. He didn't tell me about it until Monday.

Mr. RANKIN. But it was on the preceding Friday that he was discharged, was it not?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, not the preceding Friday--the Friday after the incident. That is what he told me.

Mr. RANKIN. If he had lost his job before the Walker incident, you didn't know it then?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. On the day of the Walker shooting did he appear to go to work as usual?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. And when did he return that day, do you recall?

Mrs. OSWALD. Late at night, about 11.

Mr. RANKIN. He did not come home for dinner then, before?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he had come home, and then left again.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you notice any difference in his actions when he returned home and had dinner?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he appear to be excited, nervous?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, he was quite calm. But it seemed to me that inside he was tense.

Mr. RANKIN. How could you tell that?

Mrs. OSWALD. I could tell by his face. I knew Lee. Sometimes when some thing would happen he wouldn't tell me about it, but I could see it in his eyes, that something had happened.

Mr. RANKIN. And you saw it this day, did you?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. When did he leave the home after dinner?

Mrs. OSWALD. I think it was about 7. Perhaps 7:30.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you observe whether he took any gun with him?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. He went downstairs. We lived on the second floor. He said, "Bye-bye."

Mr. RANKIN. Did you look to see if the gun had been taken when he did not return?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, I didn't look to see.

Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Chairman, we have gone our hour.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes. I think we will take a 10 minute recess now, so you might refresh yourself.

Mrs. OSWALD. Thank you.

(Brief recess.)

The CHAIRMAN. The Commission will be in order. Mr. Rankin, you may continue.

Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, you told us about your knowledge about the trip to Mexico and said that you were under oath and were going to tell us all about what you knew.

Did your husband ever ask you not to disclose what you knew about the Mexican trip?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. And when was that?

Mrs. OSWALD. Before he left. I had remained and he was supposed to leave on the next day, and he warned me not to tell anyone about it.

Mr. RANKIN. After he returned to Dallas from his Mexico trip, did he say anything to you then about not telling he had been to Mexico?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he asked me whether I had told Ruth about it or anyone else, and I told him no, and he said that I should keep quiet about it.

Mr. RANKIN. I will hand you Exhibit 1 for identification, and ask you if you recall seeing that document before.

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, this is the note that I found in connection with the Walker incident.

Mr. RANKIN. That you already testified about?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. And there is attached to it a purported English translation.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you want that marked and introduced at this time, Mr. Rankin?

Mr. RANKIN. Yes, I would like to offer the document.

The CHAIRMAN. The document may be marked Exhibit 1 and offered in evidence.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 1, and received in evidence.)

Mr. RANKIN. Can you tell us what your husband meant when he said on that note, "The Red Cross also will help you."

Mrs. OSWALD. I understand that if he were arrested and my money would run out, I would be able to go to the Red Cross for help.

Mr. RANKIN. Had you ever discussed that possibility before you found the note?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know why he left you the address book?

Mrs. OSWALD. Because it contained the addresses and telephone numbers of his and my friends in Russia and here.

Mr. RANKIN. And you had seen that book before and knew its contents, did you?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. I will hand you Exhibit 2 for identification and ask you if you know what that is.

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know whether or not that is a photograph of the Walker house in Dallas?

Mrs. OSWALD. I didn't see it--at least--taken from this view I can't recognize it. I know that the photograph of Walker's home which I saw showed a two-story house. But I don't recognize it from this view. I never saw the house itself at any time in my life.

Mr. RANKIN. Does Exhibit 2 for identification appear to be the picture that you described yesterday of the Walker house that you thought your husband had taken and put in his book?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. Perhaps this was in his notebook. But I don't remember this particular one.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Rankin, do you want this in the record?

Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Chairman, she hasn't been able to identify that sufficiently.

Mrs. OSWALD. Excuse me. Perhaps there are some other photographs there that I might be able to recognize.

Mr. RANKIN. I will present some more to you, and possibly you can then pick out the Walker house.

Mrs. OSWALD. I know these photographs.

Mr. RANKIN. I now hand you a photograph which has been labeled Exhibit 4 for identification. I ask if you can identify the subject of that photograph, or those photographs.

Mrs. OSWALD. All of them?

Mr. RANKIN. Whichever ones you can.

Mrs. OSWALD. I know one shows Walker's house. Another is a photograph from Leningrad. P-3--this is probably New Orleans. P-4--Leningrad. It is a photograph showing the castle square in Leningrad.

Mr. RANKIN. Can you point out by number the photograph of the Walker house?

Mrs. OSWALD. P-2.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know whether the photographs on Exhibit 4 for identification were part of your husband's photographs?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Chairman, I offer Exhibit 4 for identification in evidence.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be admitted.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit 2, and received in evidence.)

Mr. DULLES. What is being offered--the whole of it, or just P-2?

Mr. RANKIN. No, all of it--because she identified the others, too, as a part of the photographs that belonged to her husband. And she pointed out P-2 as being the Walker residence.

When did you first see this photograph of the Walker residence, P-2, in this Exhibit 2?

Mrs. OSWALD. After the Walker incident Lee showed it to me.

Mr. RANKIN. And how did you know it was a photograph of the Walker residence?

Mrs. OSWALD. He told me that.

Mr. RANKIN. I hand you Exhibit 3 for identification. I ask you if you can identify the photographs there.

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, these are all our photographs. P-1 is Walker's house. P-4 and P-3 is a photograph showing me and a girlfriend of mine in Minsk, after a New Year's party, on the morning, on January 1. Before I was married. This was taken early in the morning, after we had stayed overnight in the suburbs. P-5 shows Paul--Pavel Golovachev. He is assembling a television set. He sent us this photograph. He is from Minsk. He worked in the same factory as Lee did.

Mr. RANKIN. Can you tell us which one is the picture of the Walker house on that exhibit?

Mrs. OSWALD. P-1.

Mr. RANKIN. And when did you first see that exhibit, P-1, of Exhibit 3?

Mrs. OSWALD. Together with the other one. P-2 and P-6, I know that they are Lee's photographs, but I don't know what they depict.

Mr. RANKIN. Were you shown the P-1 photograph of that Exhibit 3 at the same time you were shown the other one that you have identified regarding the Walker house?

Mrs. OSWALD. It seems to me that that is so. I don't remember exactly. It is hard to remember.

Mr. RANKIN. And was that the evening after your husband returned from the Walker shooting?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. This was on one of the succeeding days.

Mr. RANKIN. By succeeding, you mean within two or three days after the shooting?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Chairman, I offer in evidence Exhibit 3.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be admitted.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 3, and was received in evidence.)

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't remember the photograph, the first one that you showed me. I only assumed that was Walker's house.

Mr. RANKIN. But the other ones, you do remember those photographs?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, the others I do.

Mr. RANKIN. When you say you do not remember the picture of the Walker house, you are referring to the Exhibit 2 for identification that we did not offer in evidence, that I will show you now?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall that your husband showed you any other exhibits that were pictures of the Walker house at the time he discussed the Walker shooting with you, beyond those that I have shown you?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. I shall hand you Exhibit----

Mrs. OSWALD. There was some railroad--not just a photograph of a house. Perhaps there were some others. There were several photographs.

Mr. RANKIN. I shall hand you Exhibit 4 for identification----

Mrs. OSWALD. One photograph with a car.

Mr. RANKIN. ----if you can recall the photographs on that exhibit.

Mrs. OSWALD. As for P-1 and P-2, I don't know what they are.

P-3, that is Lee in the Army.

P-4, I don't know what that is.

P-5, I did see this photograph with Lee--he showed it to me after the incident.

Mr. RANKIN. When your husband showed you the photograph P-5, did he discuss with you what that showed, how it related to the Walker shooting?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. I simply see that this is a photograph of a railroad. It was in that book. And I guessed, myself, that it had some sort of relationship to the incident.

Mr. RANKIN. I offer in evidence photographs P-3 and P-5 on this exhibit.

The CHAIRMAN. They may be admitted, and take the next number.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 4, and received in evidence.)

Mr. RANKIN. Now, I shall hand you Exhibit 6 for identification and ask you if you recognize those two photographs.

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. These photographs I know, both of them. They seem to be identical. Walker's house.

Mr. RANKIN. When did you first see those exhibits?

Mrs. OSWALD. After the incident.

Mr. RANKIN. About the same time that you saw the other pictures of the Walker house that you have described?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband tell you why he had these photographs?

Mrs. OSWALD. He didn't tell me, but I guessed, myself--I concluded myself that these photographs would help him in that business.

Mr. RANKIN. That is the business of the shooting at the Walker house?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. I offer in evidence the two photographs in this exhibit.

The CHAIRMAN. They may be admitted and take the next number.

(The documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibit No. 5, and received in evidence.)

Mr. RANKIN. Before you told the Commission about the Walker shooting, and your knowledge, did you tell anyone else about it?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, to the members of the Secret Service and the FBI.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you tell your mother-in-law?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, I also told his mother about it.

Mr. RANKIN. When did you tell his mother about the incident?

Mrs. OSWALD. After Lee was arrested, on Saturday--he was arrested on Friday. I don't remember when I met with his mother--whether it was on the same Friday--yes, Friday evening. I met her at the police station. From there we went to Ruth Paine's where I lived at that time. And she remained overnight, stayed overnight there. I had a photograph of Lee with the rifle, which I gave. At that time I spoke very little English. I explained as best I could about it. And that is why I showed her the photograph. And I told her that Lee had wanted to kill Walker.

Mr. RANKIN. Now, turning to the period when you were in New Orleans, did you write to the Russian Embassy about going to Russia, returning to Russia at that time?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Was that about the first part of July, that you wrote?

Mrs. OSWALD. Probably.

Mr. RANKIN. And then did you write a second letter to follow up the first one?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. I hand you Exhibit 6 for identification and ask you if that is the first letter that you sent to the Embassy. Take your time and look at it.

Mrs. OSWALD. This was not the first letter, but it was the first letter written from New Orleans.

Mr. RANKIN. Will you examine the photostat that has just been handed to you, and tell us whether or not that was the first letter that you wrote to the Embassy about this matter?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, this is a reply to my first letter.

Mr. RANKIN. Will you examine the one that you now have, and state whether that is the first letter?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, this was the first. This was only the declaration. But there was a letter in addition to it.

Mr. RANKIN. The declaration was a statement that you wished to return to the Soviet Russia?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, about granting me a visa.

Mr. RANKIN. And what date does that bear?

Mrs. OSWALD. It is dated March 17, 1963.

Mr. RANKIN. And did you send it with your letter about the date that it bears?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

I don't know--perhaps a little later, because I was not very anxious to send this.

Mr. RANKIN. But you did send it?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. And it might have been within a few days or a few weeks of that time?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. DULLES. Do we have the date of the second letter?

Mr. RANKIN. I want to go step by step.

Mr. DULLES. Yes, I understand. That is not introduced yet.

Mr. RANKIN. It might be confusing if we get them out of order.

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, this is the first letter.

Mr. RANKIN. Now, the photostatic document that you have just referred to as being the first letter, does it bear a date?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the date?

Mrs. OSWALD. It says there the 17th of February.

Mr. RANKIN. And do you know that that letter had attached to it your declaration that you just referred to?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, it seems to me. Perhaps it was attached to the next letter. I am not sure.

Mr. RANKIN. This letter of February 17 that you referred to as the first letter is in your handwriting?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Will you examine the translation into English that is attached to it and inform us whether or not that is a correct translation?

Mrs. OSWALD. I can't do that, because----

Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Interpreter, can you help us in that regard, and tell her whether it is a correct translation?

Mr. KRIMER. If I may translate it from the English, she could check it.

Mr. RANKIN. Would you kindly do that?

Mrs. OSWALD. That is a quite correct translation. I didn't want to, but I had to compose some such letters.

Mr. RANKIN. I offer in evidence the photostatic copy of the letter in Russian as Exhibit 6.

The CHAIRMAN. Together with the translation that is attached to it?

Mr. RANKIN. Together with the translation that is attached to it as Exhibit 7.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be admitted and take the next number.

(The documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibit Nos. 6 and 7, respectively, and received in evidence.)

Mr. RANKIN. I hand you again the declaration, Exhibit 8, and ask you if that accompanied the first letter, Exhibit 6, that you have referred to?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't remember whether it accompanied the first letter or the second letter with which I had enclosed some photographs and filled out questionnaires.

Mr. RANKIN. I hand you Exhibit 9 and ask you if that is the second letter that you have just referred to.

Mrs. OSWALD. No, this was perhaps the third. Perhaps I could help you, if you would show me all the letters, I would show you the sequence.

Mr. RANKIN. I hand you Exhibit 9, dated March 8, 1963, and ask you if you can tell whether that is the letter which accompanied the declaration.

Mrs. OSWALD. This is a reply from the Embassy, a reply to my first letter.

Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Chairman, may we have a short recess to get the original exhibits that we have prepared, and I think we can expedite our hearing.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well. We will have a short recess.

(Brief recess.)

The CHAIRMAN. The Commission will come to order. We will proceed.

Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, we will see if we have these in proper order now.

I will call your attention to the photostats of the declaration and the accompanying papers that I shall now call Exhibit 8 to replace the references to Exhibit 8 and 9 that we made in prior testimony, and ask you to examine that and see if they were sent together by you to the Embassy.

Mrs. OSWALD. I sent this after I received an answer from the Embassy, an answer to my first letter. This is one and the same. Two separate photostats of the same declaration. All of these documents were attached to my second letter after the answer to my first.

Mr. RANKIN. I call your attention to Exhibit 9, and ask you if that is the answer to your first letter that you have just referred to.

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, this is the answer to that letter.

Mr. RANKIN. Will you compare the translation?

Mrs. OSWALD. The only thing is that the address and the telephone number of the Embassy are not shown in the Russian original. They are in the translation.

Mr. RANKIN. Otherwise the translation is correct, is it?

Mrs. OSWALD. Otherwise, yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Chairman, I ask leave to substitute the Exhibit No. 8 for what I have called 9, as the reply of the Embassy, so that we won't be confused about the order of these.

The CHAIRMAN. The correction may be made.

Mr. RANKIN. I offer in evidence the original and the translation of Exhibit 8, except for the address of the Embassy, which was not on the original.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be admitted, and take the next number.

(The documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibit No. 8, and received in evidence.)

Mr. RANKIN. Now, as I understand, what I will call Exhibit 9 now, to correct the order in which these letters were sent to the Embassy, was your response to the letter of the Embassy dated March 8, is that correct?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir.

Mr. RANKIN. Will you compare the translation with the interpreter and advise us if it is correct?

Mr. KRIMER. It says, "Application" in the translation; the Russian word is "Declaration".

Mr. RANKIN. Will you note that correction, Mr. Krimer, please?

Mr. KRIMER. In pencil?

Mr. RANKIN. Yes.

Mr. KRIMER. Crossing out the word "application".

Mrs. OSWALD. That is correct.

Mr. KRIMER. Sir, this was a printed questionnaire, and there is a translator note on here which states that since printed questions are given both in Russian and English translation, only the answer portion of the document is being translated.

Mrs. OSWALD. That is correct.

Mr. RANKIN. You have now examined Exhibit 9 and the translation into English from that exhibit where it was in Russian and compared them with the interpreter, have you?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, correct.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you find the translation is correct?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. I offer in evidence Exhibit 9, being the Russian communications, and the English translations.

The CHAIRMAN. The documents may be admitted with the next number.

(The documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibit No. 9, and received in evidence.)

Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, do you recall that in the letter from the Embassy of March 8, which is known as Commission's Exhibit 8, that you were told that the time of processing would take 5 to 6 months?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you discuss that with your husband?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. And about when did you do that?

Mrs. OSWALD. What is the date of that letter?

Mr. RANKIN. March 8.

Mrs. OSWALD. At that time we did not discuss it. We discussed it in New Orleans. Or more correctly, we thought that if everything is in order, I would be able to leave before the birth of my second child.

Mr. RANKIN. And did you discuss that idea with your husband?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. And you think that you discussed it with him while you were at New Orleans?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall that it is also requested in the letter of March 8 from the Embassy, Commission's Exhibit 8, that you furnish one or two letters from relatives residing in the Soviet Union who were inviting you to live with them?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, but I didn't have any such letters and I did not enclose any.

Mr. RANKIN. You never did send such letters to the Embassy, did you?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. After you sent Exhibit 9 to the Embassy, did you have further correspondence with them?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. I will hand you Exhibit 10, a letter purporting to be from the Embassy dated April 18, and ask you if you recall that.

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, I remember that.

Mr. RANKIN. Will you please compare the translation with the Russian?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, the translation is correct.

Mr. RANKIN. We offer the exhibit in evidence, together with the translation.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be admitted with the next number.

(The documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibit No. 10, and received in evidence.)

Mr. RANKIN. Did you note that the Embassy invited you to come and visit them personally?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever do that?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. I hand you a letter purporting to be from the Embassy, dated June 4, marked Exhibit 11, and ask you if you recall receiving that?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. This is a second request to visit the Embassy.

Mr. RANKIN. Will you please compare the translation with the Russian?

Mrs. OSWALD. Correct.

Mr. RANKIN. We offer in evidence Exhibit 11, being the Russian letter from the Embassy together with the English translation.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be admitted and take the next number.

(The documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibit No. 11, and received in evidence.)

The CHAIRMAN. We will now recess for lunch.

The Commission will reconvene at 2 o'clock.

(Whereupon, at 12:30 p.m., the Commission recessed.)

Afternoon Session

TESTIMONY OF MRS. LEE HARVEY OSWALD RESUMED

The President's Commission reconvened at 2 p.m.

The CHAIRMAN. The Commission will convene.

Mr. Rankin, you may continue.

Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, I will now give you Exhibit 12 to examine and ask you to compare the Russian with the English translation.

Mrs. OSWALD. The translation is correct.

Mr. RANKIN. I offer in evidence Exhibit 12, being the Russian letter, and the English translation.

The CHAIRMAN. The documents are admitted under that number.

(The documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibit No. 12, and received in evidence.)

Mr. RANKIN. Now, this Exhibit 13 that you have just examined in Russian, is that your letter, Mrs. Oswald, to the Embassy?

Mrs. OSWALD. Is that No. 12?

Mr. RANKIN. Yes.

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, it is.

Mr. RANKIN. And is it in your handwriting?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you find any date on the letter? I didn't.

Mrs. OSWALD. I probably didn't date it. No. I wrote this from New Orleans.

Mr. RANKIN. Can you tell the Commission the approximate date you wrote it?

Mrs. OSWALD. What was the date of the preceding letter, No. 11--Exhibit No. 11?

Mr. RANKIN. June 4, 1963.

Mrs. OSWALD. This was probably in July, but I don't know the date.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you notice there was a "P.S." on Exhibit 12?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Referring to an application by your husband?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. And was an application for your husband for a visa included or enclosed with Exhibit 12 when you sent it?

Mrs. OSWALD. Lee told me that he had sent an application, but it was he who put this letter in an envelope and addressed it, so I don't know whether it was there or not.

Mr. RANKIN. And when you say that it was he that put the letter into the envelope and addressed it, you mean this Exhibit 12, that was a letter that you had written?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Do I understand you correctly that you do not know whether his application was included because he handled the mailing of it?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. I will hand you Exhibit 13 and ask you if you recall that?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't remember this. He did not write this in my presence. But it is Lee's handwriting.

Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Krimer, will you please translate it for her so she will know the contents.

Mrs. OSWALD. Why "separately"--the word "separately" here is underlined.

Mr. RANKIN. I was going to ask you. But since you have not seen it before, I guess you cannot help us.

Is this the first time that you knew that he had ever asked that his visa be handled separately from yours?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, I didn't know this. Because I hadn't seen this letter.

Mr. RANKIN. I offer in evidence Exhibit 13.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be admitted.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 13, and received in evidence.)

Mr. RANKIN. Is the word "separately" the last word of the letter that you are referring to--that is the word that you asked about?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. Was that underlined by Lee?

Mr. RANKIN. That is the way we received it, Mrs. Oswald. We assume it was underlined by your husband. We know that it was not underlined by the Commission, and no one in the Government that had anything to do with it has ever told us that they had anything to do with underlining it.

Mrs. OSWALD. I think that perhaps he asked for that visa to be considered separately because the birth of the child might complicate matters, and perhaps he thought it would speed it up if they do consider it separately.

Mr. RANKIN. In connection with that thought, I will hand you Exhibit 14, and ask you to examine that and tell us whether you have seen that before.

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Will you please compare the translation in English?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, the translation is all right.

Mr. RANKIN. I offer in evidence the letter in Russian, Exhibit 14, and the English translation.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be admitted under that number.

(The documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibit No. 14, and received in evidence.)

Mr. RANKIN. Did you have any impression that your husband may not have planned to go back to Russia himself, but was merely trying to arrange for you and your daughter to go back?

Mrs. OSWALD. At that time I did not think so, but now I think perhaps. Because he planned to go to Cuba.

Mr. RANKIN. By that you mean you think he may have planned to go to Cuba and never go beyond Cuba, but stay in Cuba?

Mrs. OSWALD. I think that in time he would have wanted to come and see me.

Mr. RANKIN. I hand you Exhibit 15 and ask you whether you remember having seen that before.

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Can you tell whether your husband's handwriting is on that exhibit?

Mrs. OSWALD. The signature is his, yes. I would like to have it translated.

Mr. RANKIN. Would you translate it for her, please, Mr. Krimer?

Mrs. OSWALD. A crazy letter. Perhaps from this I could conclude that he did want to go to the Soviet Union--but now I am lost, I don't know. Because--perhaps because nothing came out of his Cuban business, perhaps that is why he decided to go to the Soviet Union. The letter is not too polite, in my opinion.

Mr. RANKIN. I offer in evidence Exhibit 15.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be admitted.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 15, and received in evidence.)

Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Chief Justice, I think in the examination about this letter, if I would circulate it to the Commission it would be a little clearer what it is all about--if you could have a moment or two to examine it, I think it would help in your understanding of the examination.

Mrs. OSWALD. This was typed on the typewriter belonging to Ruth.

Mr. RANKIN. You can tell that by the looks of the typing, can you, Mrs. Oswald?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, I don't know, but I know that he was typing there. I don't know what he was typing.

Mr. RANKIN. And it is Ruth Paine's typewriter that you are referring to, when you say Ruth?

Mrs. OSWALD. Ruth Paine. Because Lee did not have a typewriter, and it is hardly likely that he would have had it typed somewhere else.

Mr. RANKIN. I hand you Exhibit 16, which purports to be the envelope for the letter, Exhibit 15. Have you ever seen that?

Mrs. OSWALD. The envelope I did see. I did not see the letter, but I did see the envelope. Lee had retyped it some 10 times or so.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall or could you clarify for us about the date on the envelope--whether it is November 2 or November 12?

Mrs. OSWALD. November 12.

Mr. RANKIN. I offer in evidence Exhibit 16.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be admitted.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 16, and received in evidence.)

Mr. RANKIN. I might call your attention, Mrs. Oswald, to the fact that Exhibit 15, the letter, is dated November 9. Does that help you any?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. Then this must be 12.

Mr. RANKIN. That is the only way you can determine it, is it?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you have anything to do with the mailing of this letter, Exhibit 15?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Yesterday you testified to the fact that your husband told you about his trip to Mexico when he returned, is that right?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Where were you when he told you about it?

Mrs. OSWALD. In the home of Mrs. Paine, in my room.

Mr. RANKIN. Was there anyone other than yourself and your husband present when he told you about it?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Will you tell us in as much detail as you can remember just what he said about the trip at that time?

Mrs. OSWALD. Everything that I could remember I told you yesterday. I don't remember any more about it.

Mr. RANKIN. At that time----

Mrs. OSWALD. But I asked him that we not go to Russia, I told him that I did not want to, and he said, "Okay."

Mr. RANKIN. That was in this same conversation, after he had told you about the trip to Mexico?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. When he asked you not to tell anyone about the trip to Mexico, did he tell you why he asked you to do that?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. I knew that he was secretive, and that he loved to make secrets of things.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you know the Comrade Kostin that is referred to in this letter of November 8, Exhibit 15?

Mrs. OSWALD. I never wrote to him. I don't know. I don't know where he got that name from.

Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband say anything about Comrade Kostin and his visit with him at the embassy in Mexico City, when he told you about the trip?

Mrs. OSWALD. He did not name him. He didn't tell me his name. But he told me he was a very pleasant, sympathetic person, who greeted him, welcomed him there.

Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband say anything to you about what he meant when he said he could not take a chance on requesting a new visa unless he used a real name, so he returned to the United States?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, he didn't tell me about it.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you understand that he had used any assumed name about going to Mexico?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. He never told you anything of that kind?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. After Lee returned from Mexico, I lived in Dallas, and Lee gave me his phone number and then when he changed his apartment--Lee lived in Dallas, and he gave me his phone number. And then when he moved, he left me another phone number.

And once when he did not come to visit during the weekend, I telephoned him and asked for him by name--rather, Ruth telephoned him and it turned out there was no one there by that name. When he telephoned me again on Monday, I told him that we had telephoned him but he was unknown at that number.

Then he said that he had lived there under an assumed name. He asked me to remove the notation of the telephone number in Ruth's phone book, but I didn't want to do that. I asked him then, "Why did you give us a phone number, when we do call we cannot get you by name?"

He was very angry, and he repeated that I should remove the notation of the phone number from the phone book. And, of course, we had a quarrel. I told him that this was another of his foolishness, some more of his foolishness. I told Ruth Paine about this. It was incomprehensible to me why he was so secretive all the time.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he give you any explanation of why he was using an assumed name at that time?

Mrs. OSWALD. He said that he did not want his landlady to know his real name because she might read in the paper of the fact that he had been in Russia and that he had been questioned.

Mr. RANKIN. What did you say about that?

Mrs. OSWALD. Nothing. And also he did not want the FBI to know where he lived.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you why he did not want the FBI to know where he lived?

Mrs. OSWALD. Because their visits were not very pleasant for him and he thought that he loses jobs because the FBI visits the place of his employment.

Mr. RANKIN. Now, if he was using an assumed name during the trip in Mexico, you didn't know about it, is that correct?

Mrs. OSWALD. I didn't know, that is correct.

Mr. RANKIN. Before the trip to Mexico, did your husband tell you that he did not expect to contact the Soviet Embassy there about the visa?

Mrs. OSWALD. He said that he was going to visit the Soviet Embassy, but more for the purpose of getting to Cuba, to try to get to Cuba. I think that was more than anything a masking of his purpose. He thought that this would help.

Mr. RANKIN. You mean it was a masking of his purpose to visit the Soviet Embassy in Mexico, or to write it in this letter?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't understand the question.

Mr. RANKIN. You noticed where he said in this letter "I had not planned to contact the Soviet Embassy in Mexico," did you not?

Mrs. OSWALD. Why hadn't he planned that?

Mr. RANKIN. That is what I am trying to find out from you.

Did he ever tell you that he didn't plan to visit the Soviet Embassy?

Mrs. OSWALD. This is not the truth. He did want to contact the embassy.

Mr. RANKIN. And he told you before he went to Mexico that he planned to visit the Soviet Embassy, did he?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he ever say to you before he went to Mexico that he planned to communicate with the Soviet Embassy in Havana?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he said that if he would be able to get to Cuba, with the intention of living there, he would get in touch with the Soviet Embassy for the purpose of bringing me there. Or for him to go to Russia. Because sometimes he really sincerely wanted to go to Russia and live and sometimes not. He did not know, himself. He was very changeable.

Mr. RANKIN. But in Exhibit 15, Mrs. Oswald, he refers to the fact that he hadn't been able to reach the Soviet Embassy in Havana as planned, and then he says, "The Embassy there would have had time to complete our business."

Now, did he discuss that at all with you before he went to Mexico?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. If he said in Mexico City that he wanted to visit the Soviet Embassy in Havana, the reason for it was only that he thereby would be able to get to Cuba.

Is this understandable? Does this clarify the matter or not?

Mr. RANKIN. The difficulty, Mrs. Oswald, with my understanding of Exhibit 15 is that he purports to say, as I read the letter, that if he had been able to reach the Soviet Embassy in Havana, he would have been able to complete his business about the visa, and he wouldn't have had to get in touch with the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City at all.

Mrs. OSWALD. The thing is that one cannot go to Cuba--that the only legal way is via Mexico City. And, therefore, he went to the Soviet Embassy there in Mexico City and told them that he wanted to visit the Soviet Embassy in Havana, but only for the purpose of getting into Cuba.

I don't think he would have concluded his business there. I don't think that you understand that Lee has written that letter in a quite involved manner. It is not very logical. I don't know whether it is clear to you or not.

Mr. RANKIN. I appreciate, Mrs. Oswald, your interpretation of it.

I was trying to find out also whether your husband had told you anything about what he meant or what he did or whether he had tried to contact the Embassy in Havana, as he says in this letter.

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I don't know of this letter. I only know that Lee wanted to get to Cuba by any means.

Mr. RANKIN. Then he next proceeds to say, "Of course the Soviet Embassy was not at fault. They were, as I say, unprepared". As I read that, I understand that he was trying to let the Embassy in Washington know that the Mexico City Embassy had not been notified by him, and, therefore, was unprepared.

Now, did he say anything like that to you after his return to Mexico?

Mrs. OSWALD. Why did the Embassy in Washington have to notify the Embassy in Mexico City that Lee Oswald was arriving?

It is not that I am asking. It seems to me that this is not a normal thing.

Mr. RANKIN. The question is did he say anything to you about it when he got back?

Mrs. OSWALD. He said that when he went to the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City they had promised him that they would write a letter to the Embassy in Washington.

Please excuse me, but it is very difficult for me to read the involved thoughts of Lee.

I think that he was confused himself, and I certainly am.

Mr. RANKIN. Is that all that you can recall that was said about that matter?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Then he goes on to say----

Mrs. OSWALD. Excuse me. I only know that his basic desire was to get to Cuba by any means, and that all the rest of it was window dressing for that purpose.

Mr. RANKIN. Then in this Exhibit 15 he proceeds to say, "The Cuban Consulate was guilty of a gross breach of regulations." Do you know what he meant by that?

Mrs. OSWALD. What regulations--what are the regulations?

Mr. RANKIN. I am trying to find out from you.

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know about that. I don't know what happened.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he ever say what regulations he thought were breached, or that the Cuban Embassy didn't carry out regulations when he returned from his trip and told you about what happened there?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know.

Mr. RANKIN. Then he goes on to say in the Exhibit, "I am glad he has since been replaced."

Do you know whom he was referring to?

Mrs. OSWALD. I have no knowledge of it. I think that if the person to whom this letter was addressed would read the letter he wouldn't understand anything, either.

Mr. RANKIN. Your husband goes on in Exhibit 15 to say, "The Federal Bureau of Investigation is not now interested in my activities in the progressive organization 'Fair Play for Cuba Committee' of which I was secretary in New Orleans (State of Louisiana) since I no longer reside in that state."

Do you know why he would say anything like that to the Embassy?

Mrs. OSWALD. Because he was crazy.

He wrote this in order to emphasize his importance. He was no secretary of any--he was not a secretary of any organization.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know that he had received any inquiry from the Embassy or anyone of the Soviet Union about the matters that he is telling about here?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. I don't know.

Mr. RANKIN. Then he goes on to say, "However, the FBI has visited us here in Dallas, Texas, on November 1. Agent James P. Hosty"--do you know whether there was such a visit by that man?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. And was he referring to the man that you know as James P. Hosty?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know his last name. He gave us his telephone number, but it seems to me that his name was different.

Mr. RANKIN. After you received the telephone number, what did you do with it?

Mrs. OSWALD. He gave the telephone number to Ruth, and she, in turn, passed it on to Lee.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know whether he put it in a book or did anything with it?

Mrs. OSWALD. He took the note with him to Dallas. I don't know what he did with it.

Mr. RANKIN. Did the agent also give his license number for his car to Mrs. Paine or to you or to your husband?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. But Lee had asked me that if an FBI agent were to call, that I note down his automobile license number, and I did that.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you give the license number to him when you noted it down?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Now, he goes on to say that this agent, James P. Hosty "warned me that if I engaged in FPCC activities in Texas the FBI will again take an 'interest' in me."

Do you remember anything about anything like that?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know why he said that in there, because if he has in mind the man who visited us, that man had never seen Lee. He was talking to me and to Mrs. Paine. But he had never met Lee. Perhaps this is another agent, not the one who visited us.

But I don't know whether Lee had talked to him or not.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know whether any FBI agent had ever warned your husband that if he engaged in any Fair Play for Cuba activities in Texas, the FBI would be again interested in him?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, I didn't know that.

Mr. RANKIN. Then in the exhibit he goes on to say, "This agent also 'suggested' to Marina Nichilyeva that she could remain in the United States under FBI protection."

Did you ever hear of anything like that before?

Mrs. OSWALD. I had not been proposed anything of the sort at any time.

The only thing the agent did say is that if I had ever any kind of difficulties or troubles in the sense that someone would try to force me to do something, to become an agent, then I should get in touch with him, and that if I don't want to do this, that they would help me. But they never said that I live here and that I must remain here under their protection.

Mr. RANKIN. Then in this Exhibit 15 he goes on to explain what he means by the word "protection", saying "That is, she could defect from the Soviet Union, of course." Do you remember anybody saying anything like that to you?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, no one said anything like that.

Mr. RANKIN. Did anyone at any time, while you were in the United States, suggest that you become an agent of any agency of the United States?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, never.

Mr. RANKIN. Did anyone from the Soviet Union suggest that you be an agent for that government, or any of its agencies?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Now, in this Exhibit 15, your husband goes on to say, "I and my wife strongly protested tactics by the notorious FBI."

Do you know of any protest of that kind, or any action of that kind?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know of any protests, but simply that I said that I would prefer not to get these visits, because they have a very exciting and disturbing effect upon my husband. But it was not a protest. This was simply a request.

Mr. RANKIN. And you never made any protests against anyone asking you to act as an agent or to defect to the United States because no one asked you that, is that right?

Mrs. OSWALD. No one ever asked me.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know of anything that you could tell the Commission in regard to these matters in this letter, Exhibit 15, that would shed more light on what your husband meant or what he was trying to do, that you have not already told us?

Mrs. OSWALD. Everything that I could tell you with reference to this