Part 49

Did you receive any letter from Bernardos to put into the post?--I took a letter on shore, addressed to Messrs. Zulueta & Co.

What did you do with it?--I put it into the post.

From whom did you get it?--From Captain Bernardos.

Mr. _Payne_. Here it is; “A Letter addressed by the said Thomas Bernardos, addressed to Messrs. Zulueta; posted at Portsmouth, the 10th day of June, 1839.” We call for that.

Mr. Justice _Maule_. Was that the same day you got the letter?--Yes, the same day.

Cross-examined by Mr. _Kelly_.

You saw nothing of the vessel, I presume, when she sailed on the voyage?--Her voyage out, do you mean?

Yes, when she sailed from Liverpool?--No, certainly not.

Mr. Justice _Maule_. Of course not.

Mr. _Kelly_. You know that ultimately this vessel was given up to the Russian government?--Yes, I do.

_Thomas James Clark_ sworn. Examined by Mr. Serjeant _Bompas_.

How old are you?--Nineteen.

Are you a sailor?--Yes.

How long have you been a sailor?--Several years.

Did you sail on board the Augusta?--Yes.

Where did you enter on board?--At Portsmouth harbour.

Where did you enter for?--To go to Liverpool, at first.

At that time you entered only to go to Liverpool?--That was all.

Did you continue on board?--Yes.

You went from Liverpool in the vessel?--Yes.

Where were the sailors hired generally, at Liverpool or Portsmouth?--At Portsmouth some were hired.

And afterwards went on with the vessel, as you did?--Yes.

How many men were on board about, I do not wish to know exactly, when you sailed from Liverpool?--About twenty-one or twenty-two.

What was your occupation on board the ship?--I was shipped as a boy, a cabin-boy.

Had you any thing to do with the loading of the vessel, or not?--I was acting as a cabin-boy.

You had nothing to do with the loading of the vessel?--No.

Do you remember any storm arising after you had left?--Yes; after we left Liverpool we had a very heavy gale of wind, which lasted some time.

How shortly was that after you sailed?--I do not know; it might have been several days.

Do you remember about how far you were from Cork or Falmouth?--Not a very great distance.

Do you remember whether the wind was fair for going to Cork or Falmouth?--Yes; it was a fair wind back, if the skipper had been disposed to run back.

Did anything take place in the ship about going back?--Yes, there was a great disturbance with the crew; they said the vessel was not safe to go to where the skipper sailed to.

Where was she going to?--The coast of Africa: he said he would not go back, that he should lose his crew if he put back.

Mr. _Kelly_. They said it was not safe to go to the coast of Africa?--Yes.

Mr. Serjeant _Bompas_. Where did he sail for at last?--Sailed to Spain.

Was the wind fair for Spain, or not?--I do not know.

How many days were you before you got to Spain?--We were some time before we got to Spain.

Can you tell whether it was a fortnight or three weeks, or between the two?--I dare say it was a fortnight, or more.

You know the port in Spain; Cadiz, was not it?--Yes.

Were any of the men discharged at Cadiz?--Yes, the best part of them.

Do you know whether that was arranged before they went to Cadiz, at the time of the storm?--It was all the captain’s misconduct.

What was?--Their leaving of us.

How long did you remain at Cadiz?--We remained there, I do not know exactly the time, a month, or it might be two months.

Was any of the cargo discharged at Cadiz?--Yes; the best part of it was moved out of her into small vessels.

There was some tobacco that was damaged, was there not?--Yes.

Did some part remain?--I do not know.

You acted as cabin-boy, we understand?--Yes.

Cross-examined by Mr. _Kelly_.

You were on board this vessel at Portsmouth?--Yes.

Do you recollect a number of large water-casks, and a good many small ones, that there were on board the vessel at Portsmouth?--Yes.

That Bankes and his son were working at for some time?--Yes.

You sailed with them on board from Portsmouth to Liverpool?--Yes.

Were not they sent out at Liverpool, and sold to Mr. Toplis, the agent, who shipped the goods?--I know very well they were put on shore.

And the vessel sailed without them?--I am not very sure whether they were put on board again.

Did you ever see them again?--No.

Were there not some iron bolts and screws, which had been on board the vessel formerly, made up and thrown overboard while the vessel remained at Portsmouth?--No, not to my recollection.

You do not know any thing of that kind?--No.

Re-examined by Mr. Serjeant _Bompas_.

Do you remember any thing about the quantity of water that was actually on board; had they much or little water?--When they sailed from Liverpool they had a great quantity of water.

Were the water-casks carried all the way or not?--We had several great puncheons on deck at the time of the storm; we knocked one or two of the heads in to help the vessel; one or two of the casks went overboard.

You had been at sea before?--Yes.

Had you a less or a greater quantity of water?--

Mr. _Kelly_. How often had he sailed, and had he been on the coast of Africa?

Mr. Serjeant _Bompas_. How often had you been at sea before?--I had been to North America before.

You had never been to Africa before?--No.

You do not know what is usual on the coast of Africa?--No.

The Honourable Captain _Denman_, R. N. sworn. Examined by Mr. Serjeant _Talfourd_.

Were you commanding on the African coast at any time?--I was commanding on a district of the African coast.

Did that embrace the river Gallinas?--The river Gallinas was within the district.

How long, while you were on that coast, were you acquainted with that river?--I was myself constantly in sight of the river for a period of eight or ten months.

Had you also, besides the period you were opposite that river, other opportunities of observing what was going on there?--Whenever I was not there myself, I left a vessel to watch the place and report to me what occurred.

We have heard there were some slave factories, barracoons there?--There were no less than six slave factories on the shore.

According to your observation, what was the trade carried on there?--There was no trade whatever but the slave trade; exclusively the slave trade.

You did not yourself know the proprietors of the barracoons?--I did not know any of them personally.

Did you ever see any of them in their warehouses?--No, except one.

Who was that?--I believe it was Martinez, but I am not certain: the name we knew him by was Pedro Fernandos.

Mr. _Kelly_. You will state what you do know?--The name we knew him by was Domingo Fernandos.

Mr. Serjeant _Talfourd_. Did you know Ignatio Rolo?--Yes, I have seen him at Gallinas.

What did he do at the Gallinas?--He was landing from the Saracen when I saw him.

That was the vessel commanded by Captain Hill?--Yes.

Did you ever see him on any of those factories?--I never saw him, except at the factory at which he landed.

Did he land at the factory?--He was landed in a man-of-war’s boat.

Cross-examined by Mr. _Kelly_.

Had you means, while in the river Gallinas from time to time, of ascertaining how many towns or villages there were as far up the river as you went?--There were, to my knowledge, some three or four or five towns on different branches of the river.

How high up did you go yourself?--I went up about ten or twelve miles, I suppose.

You say that as far as your knowledge extends there was no other trade there but the slave trade?--My positive knowledge is that there was nothing but the slave trade there.

Do you mean to represent that you knew all the ships containing British merchandise consigned to that place, and what became of the merchandise which was landed by the ships? Have you no doubt that you knew enough of what took place at that place, to be aware what became of the merchandise landed from every ship?--The question involves two or three points; I must answer in the first place, that every vessel that landed cargoes there I knew of.

During what period?--During a period of ten months most particularly.

What ten months was that?--From the month of March or the month of April, 1840, until the month of February 1841.

Have you never heard of a ship, called the Supply, landing merchandise there to the value of between 13,000_l._ and 14,000_l._?--Not during that period. I beg not to be misunderstood; I do not deny that vessels have landed cargoes there to a large amount, but I say the slave trade is the exclusive business there: there is no produce.

That is inference, perhaps, hardly warranted by your premises: is there any thing in the nature of the case to prevent the importing merchandise for consumption by the natives on the spot, and is it not consumed by the natives?--I say no produce is exported.

Mr. Justice _Maule_. The question is, what was done with the merchandise; was it given in exchange?--There were two articles of import, which are the one eaten, and the other used by the slave traders to buy slaves.

Mr. _Kelly_. What I understood you to say was, that you are not aware that there is any produce exported; but I ask whether articles are not imported to be consumed by the natives?--I do not mean to say a few hundred weight or a ton is not exported, but nothing to be called produce or exports.

You do not say there are not a few hundreds of tons?--I say not a hundred weight.

That was the case during the ten months you were there?--I have known the Gallinas since 1835. I was in charge of that station during two years; during that time I was ten months stationed at Gallinas, and had reports from the place.

When you say there is no trade carried on there but the slave trade, do you exclude from your observation the shipments of goods from England landed there and sold for money? for consumption there, sold for money?--If you put that question again, I shall understand it.

I wish to ask you, as you state that there is nothing but the slave trade carried on, that there are no exports, whether the trade may not consist of landing goods and selling them for money, as well as purchasing goods there, and carrying them away?--Just so.

Do you mean to exclude or include the fact of merchandise being landed there, and purchased there, and paid for in money, so that a stranger carrying it there, and selling it and receiving his money, would be doing what of course was perfectly lawful?--My answer is, that a person landing his goods there would not be able to procure a return, but that all the goods would go for the purchase of slaves, and nothing else: that is my reason for saying nothing but the slave trade is carried on there.

I will call them all slave traders, if you please. Do you mean to say a man may not purchase a quantity of goods which he may barter for slaves; may he not sell a part of them also to the natives?--The natives have no means of paying for them, except by the exchange for slaves: there is no produce.

As regards the shippers from this country; supposing that a man were to ship, not as agent, but on his own account, a cargo from this country, receiving money for what he exported, do you mean to say there would be any slave trading in that?--I should say not of necessity.

Mr. Justice _Maule_. Suppose he comes away in ballast, if such a transaction happens?--I have never known of such a case; there was no English trade during the time I was there.

Mr. _Kelly_. Do you mean that no English vessels went there?--Oh, yes; English vessels passed and had some little proceedings; the Augusta, for instance, was a vessel I always suspected.

Whatever took place at that place, the Gallinas, for some years before you do not know?--I know from the statement of the natives that there was no trade.

I ask you, do you know of a vessel, called the Supply, having landed and disposed of merchandise at the Gallinas to the amount of 13,000_l._ or 14,000_l._?--There was no such vessel there during the two years I was there; certainly not during the ten months.

This is a place to which trading of the nature to which I have referred may have taken place at a time previous to the time you mention?--The trade of the nature I describe has taken place since 1835.

I will give you the dates; I will mention the year 1837; do you know of a vessel called the Milford, having landed and disposed of goods to the amount of 6,000_l._ or 7,000_l._ at the Gallinas?--No, I was not there at the time; but that does not alter the case, for the slave trade existed there.

I do not ask you as to the existence of the slave trade, but whether there has not been lawful commerce and ships coming away in ballast?--I know that 800 tons of goods were landed during the time I was there, and that none of the vessels went away except with money or goods, and except when they were consigned for cargoes from the Havannah, which was the case in nine cases out of ten.

According to your experience some vessels do carry commodities to a great extent, and receive payment in actual money and sail away?--Yes, those are exceptions, but such cases do occur.

Others would go and carry their goods there and receive slaves?--No, that is not the system. The freight of the vessel is consigned from the Havannah to a slave factor, Rolo, for instance, at Gallinas; she sails again in ballast, the freight is all paid to Havannah; that is the general rule.

From what, according to your sense of the word “slave trade,” do you make out that that vessel was at all engaged in the slave trade?--I do not say that vessel is of necessity engaged in the slave trade, for I do not think it is of necessity that persons know what they are about, but I say that the consequence of it is the slave trade.

You mean that those merchants and mercantile persons are carrying on the slave trade?--Precisely so.

A person living any where else, and exporting produce there, might very well export it and get his money for it, without at all knowing to what purpose that should be applied?--Certainly, that is very possible.

With respect to this place, called the Gallinas, I am quite sure that you have given the account of the place as you believe it to exist; had you not a hand in destroying the factories there, which is the subject of one or two actions against you at this moment?--There are actions brought against me for the destruction of slave factories.

When did the event take place? I do not ask whether you had any thing to do with it of course, but when did the event take place?--About November, 1840.

Has your experience led you to various other parts of the coast of Africa, where the slave trade is carried on?--Yes.

Are not there certain parts of the coast where there is a lawful trade as well as an unlawful trade?--In almost all places, the Gallinas is the exception.

Is your knowledge, that the Gallinas is the exception, obtained from your personal presence on the spot?--It is obtained from my personal presence on the spot.

So that any person, in England or elsewhere, might export commodities to half a dozen places along the coast of Africa, and might as well export there without knowledge as any other place?--With the distinction that there is no other trade carried on there.

How is a merchant carrying on business in this country, receiving an order for 5,000_l._ worth of goods from the Gallinas, to know that the Gallinas is an exception to other places?--I think if he does not know any thing of the character of the parties, he may be ignorant of the use to which they are applied.

You mean the character of the party to whom the goods are to be sent?--Yes.

What would the character of the person, to whom the goods were sent, have to do with the fact how the person in this country is to know that the Gallinas is the exception, and that the goods are not going there to fair persons as well as to other persons?--If he knows the person to whom the goods are shipped at Gallinas, I should suppose he would know there was nothing but slave trading carried on.

That is, if he knew as well as you who have been on the spot; are there not many persons who carry on the slave trade, who also carry on a very extensive lawful trade?--Undoubtedly.

Then how is a gentleman in England or America, who exports his merchandise on those orders, to know the use to which they are to be applied?--If he knows any thing of Gallinas, he will know the object to which they are applied.

If he does not know?--If he does not know any thing of Gallinas, he is not necessarily guilty of doing any thing which is wrong.

When a vessel is under the English flag, and manned by English sailors, is there not a far greater facility as to search, and as to fair trial and condemnation, than if it is a foreign vessel?--Yes, when there is suspicion of the slave trade; it depends upon some of the treaties.

Is there any thing at all to restrict or prevent your searching every vessel under the English flag, commanded by an English captain, and manned by an English crew?--Nothing at all, if we suspect.

You do it without opposition?--Yes.

When a vessel is seized which is English, it goes without any delay before an English tribunal?--Yes.

When it is a foreign vessel, does not it go before a Mixed Commission?--It depends upon the nature of the treaty; under some of the treaties it would go to the tribunal before a Mixed Commission.

A French vessel would go before a French tribunal?--Yes.

A Spanish before a mixed tribunal?--Yes.

And a Portuguese?--Yes.

When was it you first sailed for the coast of Africa?--I left England in February, 1840.

Did you before that know the Gallinas?--Yes, I knew it in 1835.

You had been there in 1835?--Yes.

You went there first in 1835, in the discharge of your professional duties? Before that time were you aware there was such a place?--No, I knew nothing about the coast of Africa.

You did not know that the Gallinas was a place where slaves were more or less dealt in than any other place?--I had no reason to know any thing about it till I went there.

Re-examined by Mr. Serjeant _Talfourd_.

Nor the trade any where else I presume?--No.

How many merchants are there at the Gallinas to whom goods might be consigned?--I believe they are all agents; there are no actual merchants.

How many people are there?--There are twenty or thirty Europeans altogether.

Were there persons to whom goods would be consigned, except those in slave factories?--There was not another white man.

Have the natives, in any of those villages, any means of paying for British produce?--They have no means of paying but by slaves; the country does not produce any produce.

You have been asked, whether a merchant here may not ship to the coast of Africa without knowing the nature of the trade there; do you think a merchant who had exported for twenty years could be ignorant?--It is impossible he could fail to know the nature of the trade.

Mr. _Kelly_. My Lord, my learned friend has called for a letter, which the witness says was put in the post on the 10th of June, 1839.

Mr. Justice _Maule_. I thought it was 1840.

Mr. _Kelly_. No, 1839, four years ago. The letter has been most carefully looked for, and is not in existence. A few days ago, Mr. Lawford looked carefully for it, with the assistance of some of Mr. Zulueta’s people, and they are utterly unable to find it. I shall not consider him a witness, if my learned friend wishes to examine Mr. Lawford as to that matter, he may. The effect of it has been stated. If he wishes to ask those persons who are aware whether such a letter had existence, and whether it is not lost, I will produce them, in order to afford him the opportunity of putting the question.

Lieutenant Colonel _Edward Nichol_ sworn. Examined by Mr. Serjeant _Bompas_.

Have you become acquainted with the coast of Africa?--A long time.

How long?--Since the year 1822.

Had you any official employment upon that coast?--I was governor of the Isle of Ascension, and afterwards of Fernando Po, five years at each place.

In that situation, was it your duty to attend to the coast in other parts besides Fernando Po and the other place where you were immediately governor, and to make a report upon it?--It was.

Did you receive reports from the officers of the navy, or others, with respect to the various parts of the coast?--I have received reports from upwards of 200 officers of the navy, and masters of merchant ships on different parts of the coast, and have sent a small schooner attached to my command at Fernando Po, to make reports of the different slave trading stations and what was going on there.

Did you know the river Gallinas?--Yes.

Have you been there yourself?--I have.

For what period has it been within your observation?--Since 1822; I visited it in 1822, in His Majesty’s ship Victor.

Up to what time?--We did not stay long; we were chasing a slaver off the port.

How long had you occasion to know that place?--From that time to 1834; from 1822 to 1834; I left the coast in December, 1834; I have had continual communication with it since.

During that time what was the trade carried on at the Gallinas?--The slave trade.

Was there any produce exported from the Gallinas at all?--Not a particle that ever came to my knowledge, or under my observation, or from the information I have received.

Was the country round the Gallinas a country producing that which was fit for export or usually exported?--Nothing but stones and trees, hardly what would subsist the people living there.

Did you know of the existence of slave establishments there?--As notoriously as that this Court is here.

You have seen them yourself?--Yes, certainly, and had reports from the officers I sent there.

Were you there more than once?--No.

Did you know any persons residing there? Did you know Pedro Blanco?--I knew him from reports; they kept out of my sight, they did not come near me.

Was it part of your duty to suppress the slave trade as much as possible?--That is the duty of every British officer.

It is necessary I should ask you whether it was part of your duty?--Certainly. I had no authority to seize slave ships though, but to give information to His Majesty’s squadron; and I believe I did that to some good amount.

It was your duty to obtain information of what was going on along the coast, and to communicate it to the naval officers, to enable them to seize the vessels?--Certainly.

What was about the distance of your station from the Gallinas?--About 1500 miles I should say, except when I have been running down the coast. Fernando Po is a long way from the Gallinas.

But you have been running down the coast and obtaining reports?--Yes, both by myself and my officers.

Had you the means of ascertaining the way in which the slave trade was carried on?--I had.

What was the course; was it by barter or money?--You cannot get slaves for money. I never saw a slave got for money. They cannot be got without British manufactured goods supplied by the merchants.

They get British manufactured goods and barter them for slaves?--That is the general course of dealing for slaves.

They are brought from the interior of Africa to places where the trade is carried on?--Just so.

Are the slaves brought to the Gallinas for the purpose of being bartered for the goods there?--It is the most notorious and infamous slave port on the coast of Africa. There is a continual drain of slaves from all parts of the country to it; there is nothing going on there but the slave trade, any man sending goods there must know that.