Part 21
6555. _Chairman._] When you say “lawful trade,” you mean trade which you would consider as free from any connexion with the slave trade?--Trade which is altogether unconnected with the slave trade.
6556. Where it is a mere exchange of goods for produce, you see no connexion with the slave trade?--No connexion whatever.
6557. But where you see an exchange of goods for money, there you conceive there is at least a suspicion of the slave trade?--I do not think that an individual receiving dollars or money upon the coast should of necessity be suspected or accused of engaging in or conniving at the slave trade in any way; I merely say that such transactions do indirectly partake and mingle with slave-trading transactions.
6558. Because the money is brought upon the coast originally only by the slave trade?--Yes.
6559. But the parties receiving the money may be totally exempt from any connexion themselves with the slave trade?--They may be certainly unconnected with the slave trade altogether.
6560. Wherever the slave trade is carried on, there probably money will be found?--Invariably.
6561. And therefore those who deal in lawful goods, in places where the slave trade is also carried on, will probably receive money in the course of their transactions?--In many places altogether money.
6562. What is the change in the system of blockade at present, as compared with the former system?--Under the former system we had no power over the ship until the slaves were actually on board. The consequence was, that if a man-of-war lay in a port full of slavers, as I have seen Whydah, with ten or a dozen slavers at one time, so long as the man-of-war was in sight they would not ship their slaves; directly the man-of-war was out of sight they shipped their slaves; and every vessel in the harbour would weigh their anchor and set sail. The cruizer would probably chase the wrong ship, and after having chased 100 miles would be laughed at by the master of her, and told that he only did it as a _pasatiempo_.
6563. Then the change of system is essentially dependent upon the power of seizing under the equipment treaty?--Yes, entirely; the system of blockade is only effective in consequence of that change in the powers of the cruizers.
6564. Sir _T. D. Acland_.] The equipment treaty allows you to enter rivers, and to board ships even while lying in the river?--The equipment treaties do not give any new rights as regards places.
6565. Under that treaty you may examine slavers lying in the river, and seize them there?--The sole difference is this, we might have searched them formerly as we may search them now, but we could not seize them before unless slaves were on board.
6566. _Chairman._] Are you acquainted with the condition of the leeward coast?--I have not been on the leeward coast since the year 1835.
6567. You cannot speak to the condition of that coast as to the slave trade?--I can state that then it was carried on to an enormous extent; that I knew 20 sail of vessels to be there, and that under those former treaties every one of those 20 escaped with full cargoes of slaves.
6568. You have been cruizing the last two years to the north of Cape Palmas?--I have.
6569. What are the points that have been principally the resort of the slave trade during that period?--The Gallinas, to an enormous extent; New Cestos, which lies to the southward of Mesurado, between Mesurado and Cape Palmas; Sea-bar at the Sherboro’ river; the rivers Pongas, Bissao, and Cacheo.
6570. Which should you say have been the places from which the slave trade has been carried on with the greatest vigour?--The Gallinas, immeasurably more than any other place; but at Bissao, since the destruction of the Gallinas, owing to the great difficulty of cruizing there, it has increased, and no doubt will increase more, unless proper measures are taken.
6571. What is the great difficulty of cruizing off Bissao?--There is an inland navigation, a chain reaching from Bissao to the sea upon the north. There are innumerable islands to the south, amongst which there are seven or eight different passages by which the slavers could escape; and there is the Portuguese settlement of Bissao, under which a slaver may lie with perfect impunity under the Portuguese flag. From all those circumstances, there is the greatest difficulty in the cruizers operating effectually there.
6572. You have not the right of capturing under the walls of either a Spanish or a Portuguese fort?--No, we cannot supersede their municipal laws; all we can do is to remonstrate with the authorities.
6573. But you may seize as soon as the vessel is out of their waters?--Yes; but they take care never to go out when you are in the neighbourhood; they can get the most perfect information by canoes.
6574. Would steamers be especially adapted for cruizing on that coast?--I consider two steamers indispensable for eradicating the slave trade between the isle of Bulama and Bissao, assisted by two cruizers at least; but a yet more important object is the occupation of the Bulama island, from which the slavers have received the greatest possible assistance, and the occupation of which would directly intercept the principal supply of slaves. It is an island not only of immense importance as regards commerce, but also of extraordinary fertility.
6575. Is it salubrious?--I cannot say that any part of the coast of Africa is salubrious, but I have no reason to believe that it is less so than other parts; this inland is one of the last importance; I do not think it is possible to appreciate it without seeing Captain Belcher’s chart.
6576. What is the importance of that island to commerce?--It is at the mouth of all the rivers; the river Nunez, which is a river of vast importance, in my opinion, and the Rio Grande, and the Rio Pongos. It intercepts the trade with Bissao completely.
6577. Do those great rivers open out a fertile country?--I think not, generally; I think the banks are generally very swampy near the sea; but there is a very large inland trade brought down the river, both in slaves and produce: the slaves are carried almost entirely to Bissao.
6578. Sir _R. H. Inglis_.] You have referred to the occupation of the island of Bulama, as furnishing by its geographical position a most important station for the prevention of the slave trade, was not it selected by Captain Beaver for that purpose, and was not its almost proverbial unhealthiness the cause of its abandonment?--I believe there was a great deal of prejudice upon the subject; I believe, moreover, that the settlement was most injudiciously selected for health, and I think, besides, that if you compare it with certain periods at Sierra Leone, and every other part of the coast, there will be found periods quite as unhealthy at other places as at Bulama. I think Captain Beaver’s account of the island fully explains the causes of the sickness. It was very much from the misconduct of the people. I know that when orders came out to declare the sovereignty of Great Britain over that island, 1,600 persons at Sierra Leone volunteered to me to go there to settle it at a time when the emigrant ships could not get a man, so high was the impression of the people as to its advantages.
6579. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Are none of the other islands so well situated?--None to be compared to this, and this is the only one over which we have any claim.
6580. In point of health how are the other islands as compared with Bulama?--I have no means of judging, being inhabited by barbarous piratical people, with whom we have no sort of intercourse at present; the policy of the Portuguese is to keep all the persons surrounding their settlement in the most barbarous state.
6581. Mr. _Aldam_.] What is the nature of the land on the opposite coast?--All swampy, I believe.
6582. Then is not the island necessarily unhealthy?--No, I think not; I think that if the sea coast on the western side of the island was occupied, it would not be so; it is certainly not more swampy than the Gambia itself, and many other settlements.
6583. Mr. _Forster_.] You attribute the failure of Captain Beaver to the inadequacy of the means that he employed rather than to the fault of the island?--I think it was a great deal owing to that; I think there is no proof that the island is unhealthy to the extent supposed, and I believe the island might be immediately peopled by blacks.
6584. Have you in the course of your cruizing on the coast of Africa seen any part that appeared to you to be so eligible for a settlement as the island of Bulama?--I have already stated in as strong terms as I am able, the importance of the island, in my opinion, in every respect; there may be places that I should suppose to be more healthy; for instance, Sierra Leone itself, is apparently the most healthy part of the whole coast, but there seems to be great doubt whether it is so.
6585. Mr. _Aldam_.] If the opposite coast is swampy, would not fever almost always prevail there when the wind sets from the land?--I am not at all able to say what causes fever, for we find it under all circumstances; you find sometimes swampy places less unhealthy than high places.
6586. Mr. _Forster_.] Did you land on the island of Bulama?--Yes.
6587. Have you seen any considerable portion of the island?--No, I have not, excepting the coast.
6588. Is it your opinion that there is open ground there?--I found the ground under cultivation, and therefore only told the people that it was a British island; I thought it would have been injudicious to remove them and let jungles spring up before the Government took possession of it.
6589. You saw no extraordinary obstacle to the cultivation and improvement of the island?--Decidedly not; I think it is the most favourable spot for cultivation I have seen upon the coast of Africa.
6590. Have you been up to the river Nunez or the river Pongas?--I have been up the Nunez and the Pongas.
6591. To what distance?--I went up the Nunez as high as Kacundy, about 40 or 50 miles in a direct line; it is where the British factories are; it is the place to which all the trade of the Foota-Jallon nation is brought.
6592. Did you land upon the banks of the river?--Yes; I was five days in the river altogether.
6593. Did you see any thing of the state of the cultivation?--I had no means of judging; I do not believe the exports of the produce raised in the neighbourhood of the river itself at all important; the important commerce is that which is brought down from Foota-Jallon; and the opportunities I had of judging gave me the highest impression of the state of that country. I think they are far superior to any other African people I have ever had the means of acquiring a knowledge of; they are a Foolah nation, in the Foota-Jallon country; Teembo is the capital.
6594 Mr. _Forster_.] You found those British factories depending entirely upon the protection of the natives, without any British establishment to assist them?--I went up for the purpose of affording them protection; there is no Government establishment of any sort, nor do I think it desirable there should be.
6595. Sir _T. D. Acland_.] What is the ground of that opinion?--That the river is exceedingly unhealthy; and my opinion is that the Government influence would be quite as well supported by occasional visits by steam ships, and Bulama would afford support to the trade, if colonized.
6596. _Chairman._] What kind of settlement do you contemplate upon the island of Bulama?--A colony of black people, with any traders there that choose to go there, supported by a small fort, with a detachment of the African corps.
6597. Sir _T. D. Acland_.] Under the English Government?--Under the English Government.
6597*. And visited by steamers?--And visited by steamers and cruizers.
6598. Mr. _W. Patten_.] What time does it require to go from Sierra Leone to Bulama?--It depends a great deal upon the time of year; I should say, generally, the passage might be made in less than three days.
6599. Do you recollect the distance?--I am not quite sure; 200 miles, I should think.
6600. Sir _T. D. Acland_.] Would you have this colony dependent upon the Government of Sierra Leone?--Yes, I think decidedly.
6601. Mr. _Forster_.] Tn preference to its being attached to the Gambia?--It depends upon the facility of communication between the two; whichever the communication is most easy with, I should say it should be connected with. I am not prepared to say at this moment with which the communication is most easy.
6602. Sir _T. D. Acland_.] But at all events you think it should be dependent upon one or the other, not separate?--I think so.
6603. Mr. _Forster_.] You were understood to say that the country up the River Nunez, and the River Pongas, is swampy in the interior?--The mouths of the rivers are swampy, but up the Nunez there is good rising ground; the Pongas is a succession of creeks joining each other.
6604. Did you become acquainted with the fact up the Nunez of the growth of coffee on the mountains?--I became aware of the fact of coffee growing in whole forests, which have been hitherto neglected in consequence of the duties amounting to a prohibition.
6605. Is it your opinion that the slave trade is carried on in the Nunez to any material extent?--The Portuguese settlement of Bissao has small boats and canoes collecting slaves, together with produce, as far down as the north bank of the Sierra Leone river; there are many of those boats and canoes employed in the Nunez, but to the best of my belief no vessel has carried slaves from thence for several years, except in one instance, where, under the plea of recruits, the French took away a cargo.
6606. _Chairman._] The canoes go about picking up a few at a time, and collecting them into a store, as it were, at Bissao and Cacheo?--At Bissao and Cacheo; I have no doubt that there are also barracoons upon the Bissagos islands, but I had no opportunity to examine as to the fact.
6607. Mr. _Forster_.] You do not consider the British factories in Rio as at all responsible for those proceedings?--Decidedly not; I have no reason to suppose that they are.
6608. How do you account for so few cruizers having generally visited that part of the coast hitherto?--Because the station which I had charge of has generally been very short of cruizers; the only means of communication was by boats, and owing to the long exposure, and the fatigue it occasioned, it invariably cost the lives of about a fourth of the people employed, whereas a steamer might do in one day what boats take four or five days to do.
6609. _Chairman._] How would you provide fuel for the steamers in those parts?--I am not aware how far wood might be substituted for coal; I think in that part wood certainly might be used, because they would be able to take in supplies so frequently.
6610. They would have no long distances to go?--Not in that district.
6611. So that they need never be far removed from the depôts?--Precisely; there might be depôts at Bulama, and at the Gambia, and at Sierra Leone; the great difficulty is the engineers; you are obliged to have white engineers at present, but there is no sort of reason why black people of Sierra Leone should not be brought up for the purpose. There are numbers sufficiently educated for the purpose, and with proper instruction, in the course of a few years, they would supersede the necessity for white engineers.
6612. Mr. _Forster_.]--Have you not found the natives rather remarkable for the quickness and facility with which they learn mechanical operations of that kind?--I have found them quite equal to white people in that respect, possessing great intelligence, and quickness, and shrewdness, making allowance for their want of education and barbarous habits in general.
6613. Mr. _Wortley_.] Did you ever consider how far it would be possible to establish an effective blockade upon the coast which has been the scene of the slave trade by means of a combination of steamers and sailing cruizers?--I believe that by such means, by taking certain districts of the coast pointed out by particular circumstances, and effectively and continuously blockading those parts, and then moving from point to point, leaving a smaller force to prevent the slave trade from reviving, that system would be perfectly effective in the course of three years, supposing the forces to be increased.
6614. Sir _T. D. Acland_.] From what point to what point?--I speak merely of the West Coast, I have no knowledge of the East; but I have no hesitation in saying that it might be effected from Cape Verde down to the northern part of our Cape of Good Hope dominions.
6615. Mr. _Wortley_.] In order to accomplish that object are you able to state what you imagine would be the necessary force of steamers and cruizers?--I should say that steamers are only necessary in particular parts; I should say that six steamers would be quite enough.
6616. _Chairman._] And how many sailing-vessels?--There are now upon the coast sixteen sailing-vessels; I would increase them by at least one-half; I would withdraw all the cruizers now employed in checking the slave trade on the other side of the Atlantic; I consider them, as regards the suppression of the slave trade, as entirely useless.
6617. Do you know what number are employed on the other side of the Atlantic?--On the other side of the Atlantic they have various other duties to perform; I can scarcely say that any of them are exclusively employed in this service.
6618. Mr. _Wortley_.] But the whole number there is rendered large by having this service to perform?--Yes.
6619. Can you say what number it would be possible to dispense with, in case the slave trade service were discontinued on the other side of the Atlantic?--I cannot answer this question, as they have various other duties to perform, and are not exclusively employed against slave trade.
6620. When you said that you would increase the number of cruizers by one-half, did you mean that you would increase it by one-half, including the number of steamers that you propose to have?--No, excluding those; I would make the present 16 vessels 24, and have six steamers in addition.
6621. And you think that if there were a force of that kind employed upon the West Coast of Africa, it would have the effect of entirely suppressing the slave trade?--If a proper system of blockade were adopted, I have no doubt of it.
6622. _Chairman._] Do you consider that it is useless, towards putting down the slave trade, to capture slave vessels off the coast of Brazil or the West Indies?--My opinion is, that any captures there are such utter chance that they do no good whatever, as on that side not one vessel out of ten can ever be captured, and wherever it is reduced to a chance at all, the profits are sufficient to keep up the slave trade. My opinion is, that the only way in which the slave trade can be stopped is in the interior of Africa. Every slave vessel that sails with her cargo of slaves has already done all she can to keep the slave trade going in Africa. The native dealer has his profit upon them; he does not care where she goes to, or what becomes of the slaves afterwards.
6623. Mr. _Forster_.] Is not a slave vessel captured on the western side of the Atlantic, equally a loss to the slave dealer as a slave vessel captured on the eastern side of the Atlantic?--My opinion is, that the amount of loss to the slave dealer is of little consequence, seeing that it is the result of chances which, in that quarter, must be always immensely in favour of the slave dealer, and that, compared with the chance of escape, the chance of capture is nothing; the profits are so large that the risk will be readily incurred.
6624. _Chairman._] You think that the chance of escape is much greater with cruizers on the western side of the Atlantic than on the eastern?--My opinion is, that if the slaves are once on board, the mischief is already done.
6625. Mr. _Aldam_.] Do you think that the only effect of capturing a slave ship off the coast of America, is to increase the price of slaves, and that any increase which that can cause, the planters can still afford to pay?--The capture of a slave ship after her slaves are on board inflicts a heavy loss on the owners; but while embarkation can be effected to any extent, slave trade can never be stopped. The mere fact of keeping cruizers on the American side of the Atlantic is in itself an absolute proof of the want of success of our efforts, and the strongest argument in favour of the system I recommend. While slaves can be introduced, planters can afford to pay almost any price.
6626. Mr. _Wortley_.] Do you think it would be possible to suppress the slave trade by any system pursued in the interior of Africa, without an effectual suppression of the trade upon the coast?--The only way in which I contemplate the suppression of the slave trade in the interior of Africa, is by the suppression of the embarkation of slaves.
6627. As long as the temptation upon the coast exists, do you think it impossible to put an end to the slave trade in the interior?--Precisely; as long as embarkation takes place, that temptation continues, and the slave trade of the interior remains untouched.
6628. _Chairman._] Has not the cruizing off the coast of Africa the additional advantage of protecting British trade incidentally, and showing to the natives before their eyes that the English flag is actively exerted to put down that traffic, which advantages would not be secured by cruizing on the western side of the Atlantic?--Certainly, it is one of our first duties to protect British trade, and in that respect I have no doubt it is useful, as well as in the suppression of the slave trade.
6629. Is it not of considerable advantage in a traffic like that upon the coast of Africa, that the British power should be pretty frequently displayed?--It is highly necessary.
6630. _Chairman._] Supposing even the chance of capture to be equal in the two cases, has not cruizing off the coast of Africa the further advantage of checking or entirely preventing the horrors of the middle passage?--If you capture a full vessel upon the coast of Africa, she has nearly the same voyage to Sierra Leone from many parts: it depends upon circumstances.
6631. Sir _R. H. Inglis_.] You have stated that the slave trade is a favourite trade throughout Africa; would, therefore, the prevention of the slave trade, whether on the east or on the west of the Atlantic, remove the temptation in the one case more than in the other?--My opinion is, that the temptation is removed alone by throwing difficulties in the way of embarkation; because, as long as the native can sell his slaves, he does not care where they go to; he goes and buys more slaves.
6632. _Chairman._] Would you think it advantageous if the cruizers were allowed to fit up one of their prizes as a cruizing tender?--It would be undoubtedly of great advantage, but it would be contrary to the treaties.
6633. To all the treaties?--I think to all the treaties; and it would be open to great abuses.
6634. What abuses?--I think you would have young midshipmen and people cruizing away in those vessels, and getting into scrapes, by improperly searching foreign vessels.
6635. You regard the duty as one of rather a delicate nature, which is not to be entrusted to subordinate officers?--The most difficult and the most delicate that a British officer can be entrusted with; the immense mischief produced by an indiscreet search, by giving offence to foreign nations, has been very much experienced.
6636. Do not the treaties require that officers of a certain rank shall alone be empowered to carry out the search?--That is the case in most of the treaties.