Part 17

5565. You believe that they are more difficult of conversion than other Africans?--It is quite impossible, if I may say so of any body; there never was an instance known of a Krooman being converted.

5566. To what do you attribute that peculiarity?--To their constant return, as I mentioned yesterday, to their own country. They never think of settling any where but in their own country. There is no instance of a Krooman settling any where but in the Kroo country.

5567. Do they not settle at Fernando Po?--No; no more than they settle in Sierra Leone.

5568. Mr. _G. Wood_.] Do they all retire to their own country in their old age?--Yes. I have known a great many of them; indeed, I was very partial to them, and had a good many in my employ. Governor Doherty rather discouraged their employment, which I thought unwise, but that was one slight point on which I disagreed with him.

5569. _Chairman._] Have you never heard of their being converted at Cape Palmas by American missionaries?--No.

5570. Mr. _G. Wood_.] Are you aware of any persevering and continuous efforts having ever been employed?--No, I cannot say that I am; but they are thrown into our colony very much under the same circumstances that the liberated Africans are, who become Christians, almost universally.

5571. _Chairman._] The liberated Africans are more settled?--Yes.

5572. And are therefore more exposed to the influence of those around them?--Yes; but the Krooman also resides at Sierra Leone, and is never away more than once in three or four years, but the periodical return to his own country, and to his old habits, is I think a great cause why it is so difficult to christianise him.

5573. Mr. _Wortley_.] Is there any mode of accounting for those remarkable peculiarities in the Kroomen?--No; I think they are kept distinct by the habit of the country, never allowing the women to leave the country, and thus inducing the men constantly to return.

5574. Is there any distinction of race to be observed between them and other tribes?--Yes, a most striking difference.

5575. Is there any reason to suppose their origin to have been different from the origin of the rest of the inhabitants of Africa?--One would suppose so from their being totally different in colour and habits.

5576. Mr. _G. Wood_.] Has their language been analysed with a view to see whether that affords any indication of their being from a different stock?--No. An opinion seems to have been expressed by Governor Doherty against allowing Mahomedans to exercise their religion. I differ from him there also; but I think, with those two exceptions, as far as I recollect it, I agree with the remainder of the Report.

5577. Viscount _Courtenay_.] Bearing in mind the remarks which are made in that Report upon the subject of schools, do you concur with him generally in those remarks, or do you wish to add any thing?--I quite concur with him, particularly with regard to the pay of the teachers; I think the pay certainly is on too low a scale at present to secure the services of good teachers.

5578. What is your opinion as to the practice which seems to exist of separating the children of liberated Africans from the Creole children?--I think any separation of that kind is undesirable.

5579. Is it apparently justified by any difference of natural talent between them as a class?--No; but there is a very great difference between the colony-born children and those who have been introduced into the colony at a later age; those who have been born and bred in the colony are very superior.

5580. Is the result of this separation that liberated African children make much less progress in education generally than the other children?--Yes; I should think that is the effect.

5581. Are they taught English?--Yes, they all speak English.

5582. Mr. _G. Wood_.] Does it give birth to any permanent feelings of enmity between the two classes of children?--No.

5583. Mr. _W. Patten_.] I observe in one of the recent slave treaties, which sets out the duties incumbent upon the master to whom negroes are apprenticed, the first duty is, that the apprentice shall be maintained in proportion to the employment done, and shall be supplied with such clothes as are usual according to the custom of the colony; during your residence in Sierra Leone was that attended to by the authorities there?--I think that the whole system of apprenticeship there was bad; it was required by the indentures, but the indentures were very imperfectly fulfilled.

5584. There are six different classes to be attended to upon this point; first, with regard to food; secondly, with regard to instruction in the Christian religion; and according to that second article they must be baptized before the expiration of the second year of apprenticeship; was that at all looked to?--No, I do not think it was. In many cases you could not carry it out, because the person who was apprenticed came there not as a child, but grown up, and the clergyman would then take upon himself to decide whether he was a fit subject for baptism or not.

5585. But the authorities in the colony did not see in any way that that was done?--No.

5586. The next is, “that the apprentice should be vaccinated as soon as possible after being delivered into the charge of the master, and that in sickness he shall have proper medical advice and be treated with due care and attention, and that in case of death, he shall be decently buried at the master’s expense?”--There is no obligation of that kind with regard to negroes in Sierra Leone; this is a treaty that does not refer to Sierra Leone.

5587. This is in the treaty that was signed in 1839?--It did not come into operation at the time I was in Sierra Leone; there is a treaty somewhat similar; the last treaty with Spain, which requires that attention shall be paid to emancipated negroes.

5588. You stated that you thought the apprenticeship system was very bad?--Yes, I think the whole system of apprenticeship at Sierra Leone is bad, and ought to be done away with.

5589. Mr. _G. Wood_.] What system would you substitute for it?--I would not object to apprenticing children to artizans and to master tradesmen, but I certainly would not apprentice them to other persons.

5590. _Chairman._] Your system of disposing of the liberated Africans in the West Indies would, of course, get rid of the difficulty attending upon the future?--Yes.

5591. Mr. _G. Wood_.] But supposing that system not to take place, what system should you think preferable to the system of apprenticeship now prevalent in Sierra Leone?--There can be no system introduced that would not entail considerable expense upon the Government.

5592. _Chairman._] Would you throw the adults upon their own resources at an earlier period than at present?--No; I think the time (six months) for which the Government now support the adults is as short as it could possibly be, and I do not think they could shorten that by one day.

5593. Mr. _G. Wood_.] You stated that no other system could be substituted but what would be attended with considerable expense; do you think it would be worth while to incur that expense?--I do not think the present system should be continued, whatever the expense might be of substituting another system for it.

5594. What system would you recommend as a substitute for it?--The system that must be substituted for it, in case of the apprenticeship being done away with, would be keeping all the children, as they now do many of them, landed from slave vessels, in the schools till they are old enough to be thrown upon their own resources.

5595. _Chairman._] Making them, in fact, boarding-schools?--There is a boarding-school in many of the villages; in the villages the liberated African children are lodged and fed by the manager, but that is only the children who are not apprenticed.

5596. You would have all the children put into boarding-schools?--I see no other way at present of disposing of them, if they are not apprenticed.

5597. Mr. _G. Wood_.] Had the change of system that you alluded to reference to an altered system with regard to the adults?--No; I would not alter the system with regard to the adults, except, perhaps, by extending the period two months, during which they should be maintained by Government.

5598. That would be an extension from six months to eight months?--Yes; at any rate, while the Government continues to use their services, as they do at present, when they are employed for three months after their arrival labouring upon Government works, and are prevented from employing themselves upon farms.

5599. Mr. _Forster_.] In answer to question 5208, in your former evidence, with respect to the system of landing the crews of captured slavers, you said, “I have never known a cruizer act inhumanely. I heard of one case the other day where people starved, but it was stated in that case that it was owing to the refusal of the Portuguese factories to support them.” Had you any opportunity at Sierra Leone of observing the system pursued in this respect by our cruizers?--I have mentioned that the only portion of the slave crews that we saw at Sierra Leone were those who were sent up as witnesses.

5600. What case is this which you allude to as having heard of?--It was a case I heard of in this room, mentioned by some gentleman connected with the Bonny trade.

5601. Are you aware whether there are any Spanish or Portuguese factories in Bonny?--I am aware that there were some slave factories there formerly.

_Lunæ, 27º die Junii, 1842._

MEMBERS PRESENT.

Sir T. D. Acland. Mr. Aldam. Captain Fitzroy. Mr. Forster. Mr. W. Hamilton. Mr. Milnes.

VISCOUNT SANDON, IN THE CHAIR.

_Captain Henry Worsley Hill_, R. N., called in; and examined.

7109. _Chairman._] What has been your connexion with the coast of Africa?--I commanded the “Saracen” on the coast of Africa from October 1837 till January 1841.

7110. What part of the coast have you cruized along?--The first eight months I was in the Bight of Benin; after that I went to the Cape of Good Hope and Madagascar, returning to Sierra Leone in December 1838; and continuing on the coast between Cape Palmas and Portendique till June 1841.

7111. Has the character of the system of cruizing altered during that period?--On the Sierra Leone side, certainly. Latterly, we established a very close blockade.

7112. Have you been engaged in descents on the coast?--Yes, at Gallinas, and at Sea-bar.

7113. At Gallinas you were engaged with Captain Denman?--Yes.

7114. At Sea-bar, were you by yourself?--The “Ferret” was there likewise.

7115. What were the circumstances of your operations at Sea-bar?--I had had a boat blockading Sea-bar, where there was a noted slave factory, and my boat’s crew had required water, and on landing to procure water, the king, Harry Tucker, refused water without I paid for it at a most exorbitant rate, about a dollar a gallon he demanded; and I was authorized by the Governor of Sierra Leone to endeavour to effect a treaty, that had been sent out from the Home Government with the chiefs of that part of the coast. I landed for the purpose of endeavouring to effect this treaty, and also to inquire into the cause of the king’s refusing my boat’s crew water. The slave factory belonging to Mr. François is close to the usual place of landing, being close to the water; it is at the southernmost entrance of the Sherboro’ River. On landing I found that every person had left the factory; after a short time, I succeeded in getting a messenger to go to the king, who was represented to be in the bush, and requested that he would come to see me, assuring him that I had come upon a friendly mission. He refused; I then wrote to him for the same purpose; after waiting some time, several people appeared at the borders of the wood, armed, and one man advanced and came to me, and told me that Mr. François, the slave merchant, and the king had armed the slaves for the purpose of coming down to attack us, but that they preferred giving themselves up to us, and going to Sierra Leone to be made free, and asking if I would receive them on board; I of course told them yes, as many as would come, and I think about fifty came down armed with muskets and cane knives. They procured for themselves a canoe; I had not room in my own boats for them. They represented that they had been very ill-used by the slave-factor, Mr. François, flogged and beaten, and kept in irons, and confined closely in the barracoons; and when they were in the boat they expressed their delight, by clapping their hands and singing in their country manner. I had determined upon destroying the barracoons, but I thought it better if I could induce the slaves to do it themselves, it would be setting a better example. Upon its being mentioned to the slave who could speak English (there was only one who could speak English), he mentioned it to the others, and two or three immediately volunteered from the troop, to go up and burn the barracoons and the factory. They went and set fire to it in about twenty places, and the place was destroyed. I was told afterwards that this was followed by another slave factory being burnt on the opposite side of the river the following day, by the slaves themselves.

7116. Who was this Mr. François?--He is a slave factor, who has resided a long time at Sea-bar; I believe he was once in the French navy as a foremast man, but I am not certain.

7117. Was he living under the protection of the native chief there?--He was living in the chief’s territory; therefore, I suppose he was there with his sanction and knowledge; I had been there before, and I had seen the chief in Mr. François’ house.

7118. Mr. _Forster_.] Do not you think it was setting rather a dangerous example to tell the natives to destroy property under such circumstances?--No, I thought I was setting a good example, or I should not have done it.

7119. You think they could fully appreciate the motives and views with which you acted?--Undoubtedly.

7120. Do the natives condemn the slave trade themselves?--They carry the slave trade on; if they did not carry it on, there would be no slave trade.

7121. Then on what ground of moral right could they account for your destroying this property for the reason that it was with the view of doing away with the slave trade, a trade which they do not consider morally wrong?--They can easily, I think, appreciate the view with which the slaves were armed to come down and attack Her Majesty’s boats, who went there with friendly intentions.

7122. _Chairman._] Those whom you got to destroy the barracoons were slaves themselves?--They were slaves, who had been armed to come and attack us, and they came and placed themselves under British protection, and begged to be taken to Sierra Leone.

7123. You think they would understand why you sent them to destroy the means of imprisonment;--I think so, certainly.

7124. Mr. _Forster_.] You carried them to Sierra Leone?--I carried them to Sierra Leone, and entrusted them to the protection of the governor.

7125. _Chairman._] Do you know any thing of the circumstances under which those slaves had come there?--They were Mr. François’ slaves, and I imagine they must have been purchased in the way in which all the slave factors purchase their slaves; they are brought down from the interior.

7126. Mr. _Forster_.] Have you given any similar advice to the native chiefs, or the natives, on any other part of the coast, to destroy the property of slave dealers?--I have advised the whole of the chiefs that I have had any communication with to discontinue the slave trade, the sale or barter of negroes to Europeans.

7127. _Chairman._] Was there property in those barracoons that were destroyed?--There was very little property; I think the goods must have been removed from the slave factory some time previously.

7128. Sir _T. D. Acland_.] The use of those barracoons was distinctly for the purpose of keeping up the traffic in slaves?--The slaves had been confined there, according to what I learned from those I received on board, on the previous night, to the number of between 300 and 400. There were a vast number of shackles and chains, with which they had been chained, and the slaves had been removed out of the barracoons on the approach of my boats.

7129. Therefore the property destroyed was only such as was used for the most criminal purpose?--There was no property destroyed but what was used for the slave trade. In fact, there was very little property besides the buildings; every thing had been removed.

7130. Mr. _Forster_.] You think the natives could draw the distinction between property of that description and other property which you yourself might feel inclined to respect?--I think the natives could draw the distinction between property intended for the slave trade, belonging to a foreign slave dealer who had settled in the country for the express purpose of carrying on the slave trade, which the natives know is contrary to the laws of his own country, and contrary to the laws of all Europe.

7131. But when they see those persons settle in their own country, with the sanction and under the protection of their chiefs, do you think that, under those circumstances, to teach them such a want of respect for property can have a beneficial tendency in the country generally, where it must have been witnessed by other natives, and known to other natives besides those which you have mentioned as being engaged in this transaction?--I think it must have a beneficial effect on the natives of the country where it takes place.

7132. _Chairman._] In doing this did you act under specific instructions, or upon your own responsibility?--Upon my own responsibility; I have received the approbation of the Admiralty.

7133. Did you receive any general instructions to attack slave factories wherever they were not under an European flag?--Not while I was on the coast.

7134. Mr. _Forster_.] Did you visit the Rio Nunez?--Yes.

7135. Do you know two chiefs there of the names of Sallafou and Sarra?--Sallafou is the chief of the Narrow country, and Sarra is the chief of the Kikandy country.

7136. Did you advise those chiefs to get possession of the goods of any slave vessel that might come within their reach, and any property that might be in them?--I think it is very likely that I advised those chiefs, while I was in their country, to discontinue the European slave trade and to prohibit slave vessels from coming to their country.

7137. But you did not advise them to seize slave vessels or slave cargoes?--I advised them to prohibit slave vessels coming to their country, and not to allow the slave trade.

7138. But you did not advise them to use every means in their power to get possession of any property belonging to a slave dealer that might come within their reach?--They could not get possession of any property, or slave vessel, if they followed my advice of not allowing them to come to their country to trade for slaves. There was no slave vessel, nor did I see any factories, in the Nunez, or any signs of the slave trade being carried on there.

7139. But they could not prevent slave vessels coming into their country without being in contact with them, and therefore having the means of seizing them?--Their seizing slave vessels and goods would be an act of their own. I remember no advice being given them by me, that they were to lie wait, or endeavour to seize vessels that they supposed to be engaged in the slave trade, or to seize goods on board those vessels, or to use any fraudulent means of getting those goods into their possession.

7140. Then if they have made your advice a pretext for seizing property in vessels belonging to Frenchmen in their rivers, they have done so falsely?--They never received any advice or recommendation from me to seize goods or vessels belonging to the French or any other nation. When I was in the Nunez there were three English merchants and four French merchants with me. The origin of my going there was owing to a war existing between King Sarra and the Nallow chief, which had stopped the trade of the river. There had also been some outrages committed upon an English vessel; the captain of one English vessel had been forcibly made to pay between 60 and 70 dollars, and another English vessel had been fired on by the natives. I entered into treaties with the chiefs that French and English property should be respected. The merchants were present at both interviews with those chiefs, a Foolah chief, with about 100 or 120 Foolahs, who had been sent down from the Foolah country, was also with me, and assisted in making king Sarra refund 64 dollars which he had taken from this English captain, which money I delivered to the Governor of Sierra Leone; and on leaving the river both the English and French merchants expressed themselves very much satisfied with what I had done. There was no advice given by me to either of the chiefs but in the presence of those merchants.

7141. _Chairman._] Did you find, in the course of your cruize, assistance given to the slave trade by English merchants?--I detained an English vessel bound to the Gallinas, freighted through the agency of Messrs. Zulueta, of London, on behalf of Pedro Martinez, of the Havannah, consigned to some notorious slaving establishment at the Gallinas.

7142. What was the result?--I sent the vessel to Sierra Leone; she was tried in the Vice-Admiralty Court, and condemned; the master was also tried at the sessions at Sierra Leone. The grand jury found a true bill against him, and I have every reason to believe the petty jury would have found him guilty, had the Queen’s advocate, who conducted the prosecution, represented the master as also the owner. But upon the trial he was tried merely as the master, and the jury acquitted him on the supposition that the master of a vessel might be ignorant of the trade in which she was engaged; but he being master and owner, and having been to the Gallinas on two previous voyages, and delivered cargoes, consigned in one instance to the notorious Pedro Blanco, and in another instance to another slave merchant; had this appeared, I have every reason to believe he would have been convicted. It is my opinion the house of Zulueta have aided and abetted the slave trade for a number of years, by acting as agents for slave dealers. There is a case on record, very nearly similar to this, of the brig Arrogante, which was sent out to the Havannah, and represented to the English Government by the English consul at the Havannah.

7143. You mean by the same house?--By the same house.

7144. What is the nature of the interest which the house of Zulueta have in these transactions?--They appear as agents only.

7145. What is the nature of their agency?--I will state the whole case of the vessel. I have copies of the principal papers with me in London, if the Committee should wish to see them. The “Augusta” was originally the “Goluptichick.” The “Goluptichick” was detained by me off Gallinas under Russian colours, with a crew composed solely of Spaniards. Her course of trade for two years had been wholly confined to Spanish ports and the coast of Africa. I had information of her taking a cargo of slaves from the coast a few months previously to my capturing her; I sent her to Sierra Leone, and attempted to try her in the Spanish and British Mixed Commission Court, under the treaty with Spain. She was refused to be admitted into the court, being under Russian colours and papers. I then determined upon sending her to England, being convinced that this vessel could not be trading lawfully from Russia, Russia having no colonies to which it was possible she could be carrying slaves. The vessel was perfectly equipped for the slave trade.