Part 12

5294. Mr. _Evans_.] Do you think that the Mixed Commission Court has sufficient power for the objects for which it is instituted?--I think that they have. They have been rather shy of exercising it sometimes, but I believe that they do possess much more power than they ever exercised.

5295. You have no improvement in the court to suggest?--No. There seemed to be a deficiency of authority in the marshal a short time ago; but that was supplied by a local Act, which gave him all the power which the marshal of the Vice-Admiralty Court possesses.

5296. _Chairman._] It is stated by Dr. Madden, in page 14, that the new interests which he supposes to be created in the minds of the British residents, especially in the minds of the liberated negroes, “have a very unfavourable influence upon them when employed in public situations, or called upon to act as petty juries in our courts.” He states, “if the case is one which involves the interest of a slave dealer, no matter what his nation, the disposition of a jury thus composed is invariably to give a verdict in favour of the slave trader, unless the chief justice should take extraordinary pains to make them do their duty honestly and impartially.” Do you know instances in which this has operated?--No; I believe it never operated in any case.

5297. What are the cases in which slave dealers come before juries in Sierra Leone?--Slave dealers have come before them, and been convicted and executed; I never knew an instance of a man who ought to have been convicted escaping.

5298. He mentions here an instance of a vessel, the Gollupchik, being captured and being sold, and becoming the property of certain London merchants, and being again sent out with a cargo of goods for the slave trade factories of Gallinas, under British colours, and commanded by a British subject. “The vessel,” he says, “was condemned by the Mixed Court of Justice at Sierra Leone, and the English captain was committed for trial at the ensuing assizes. The grand jury found a true bill against this man on the clearest evidence, but the petty jury, all of whom were persons of colour, returned an unanimous verdict of acquittal, which was received by the coloured persons in the court, and by some others of similar sentiments, with decided tokens of approbation.” Are you acquainted with that case?--Not at all; without knowing the case it would be impossible to say whether the jury were right or wrong; I have known cases where they have discharged persons accused of slave dealing, and where they were right. In the case referred to by Mr. Hartung of the Echo, the jury thought that the prisoner was not liable to conviction; but I never knew in my time any man who ought to have been convicted of slave dealing escape.

5299. Generally speaking, did you find the coloured juries do their duty in all cases?--Certainly; they do their duty very well.

5300. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Is it from any particular class that juries are selected?--The grand juries are selected from the most respectable inhabitants of Freetown, and the petty juries from shopkeepers and the reputable class of traders.

5301. Viscount _Courtenay_.] Who selects them?--The sheriff.

5302. _Chairman._]--Has the office of chief justice been frequently vacant?--It has been vacant several times since I was in the colony, and an acting chief justice has been appointed.

5303. Who has acted in the interval?--During one interval, Mr. Melville, who was Queen’s advocate at the time, and Mr. Carr, who was also Queen’s advocate, and who is now chief justice, officiated on another occasion.

5304. Were they gentlemen who had a legal education?--Both of those persons had; but there were two other instances in which the office was held by men who had no legal education; once by a merchant, and a second time by the collector of customs.

5305. Was that under the necessity of the case?--Yes.

5306. Mr. _Forster_.] How long did the collector of customs hold that office?--A very long time; he held it from the death of Chief Justice Rankin until the appointment of Mr. Carr as chief justice, which was probably a year and a half after.

5307. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Do you know what year it was in?--From August 1839 till, I think, the end of 1840, or the beginning of 1841.

5308. Mr. _Forster_.] It is a part of the duty of the chief justice to deliver the gaol at the Gambia, is it not?--Yes.

5309. Are you aware whether the acting chief justice visited the Gambia for that purpose during the 18 months in question?--Certainly; while I was there Mr. Hook visited it.

5310. Do you know how frequently, in each year, it is the duty of the chief justice to deliver the gaol of the Gambia?--There is no time appointed; but I consider it a great disadvantage both to the Gambia and Sierra Leone, having only one chief justice for the two places.

5311. You are not aware whether the Gambia has not been left for a period of 12 months without a gaol delivery?--No; I think it is possible that it might be the case between the early part of 1838 and 1839, or between the beginning of 1839 and the beginning of 1840. There is very great difficulty in getting any person in a colony like that to fill the situation of chief justice, I mean from among the residents in the colony.

5312. Are you aware of the cause of the office having been vacant for the period of 18 months?--No, not at all; I suppose that the Colonial Government could not find a proper person to send out. One barrister who was appointed was drowned before he reached Sierra Leone.

5313. You are not aware that the applications have generally been extremely numerous for that office whenever it has become vacant?--No.

5314. Mr. _Aldam_.] What is the system of criminal law in force in the colonies?--The law of England.

5315. Is it modified at all?--Very little; if it is modified, it is modified by local Acts passed by the Governor and Council.

5316. Mr. _Evans_.] Do you think it a good thing to appoint men of colour to such high offices as those of chief justice or Governor, in any colony where many English gentlemen reside?--Certainly, if they are fit for the situations; but at Sierra Leone there is no feeling whatever except amongst one or two individuals, on the subject of colour; indeed I believe that the most popular man at the present time, and almost during the whole time when I was there, was a man of colour, and who was afterwards Lieutenant-governor; that was Dr. Ferguson, a man, I believe, universally beloved there.

5317. Mr. _Forster_.] Do you think that the natives have the same confidence and respect for a person of that description, as for a white officer?--I think so; at Sierra Leone, certainly.

5318. Mr. _Aldam_.] Practically, do you find a great number of men of colour who are fit to fill high situations in the colony?--There are not so many men of colour as white men fit to fill the high situations; but some of the highest situations have been filled in my time by men of colour, and well filled.

5319. _Mr. W. Patten_.] Have you any other observation which you wish to make upon Dr. Madden’s Report?--At page 28, on “The result of the efforts at present in use for the suppression of the slave trade,” Dr. Madden mentions “The disappointment the captors experience at seeing all their arduous efforts for hindering the slave trade factories from receiving their supplies from the foreign vessels engaged in this trade completely nullified by the proceedings of our own merchants and commanders of merchant-vessels, who supply them with the identical goods and stores which they capture the foreign vessels for conveying to the coast.” Now I wish particularly, with reference to that statement, to say, that foreign vessels are never captured for having _goods_ of any description on board of them. There appears to have been some error entertained as to the grounds on which the vessel called the Dos Amigos, which has been mentioned before, was condemned. That vessel was condemned at Sierra Leone, and in the report which the Commissioners made to Government, they stated that the Dos Amigos had been allowed to lie in Cape Coast Roads fully equipped for the slave trade. It seems to have been supposed that our complaint was, that she was carrying _goods_ for the supply of the slave trade; but no vessel, either British or foreign, has ever been condemned at Sierra Leone on account of the description of goods that she was carrying.

5320. What is the object which you have in calling the attention of the Committee to that statement; is it to deny that statement?--There is a good deal of evidence in the papers before the Committee on the case of the Dos Amigos. The impression seems to have been, that the complaint of the mixed commission court at Sierra Leone against the Governor of Cape Coast Castle, was, that he allowed a vessel to trade at Cape Coast, which was afterwards captured there as a slave trader. Now the ground of complaint was quite distinct, namely, that he allowed a vessel with _equipments_ on board for the slave trade to be in a British harbour with impunity; it had nothing to do with the goods whatever.

5321. _Chairman._] You do not believe that it would be lawful to seize and condemn a foreign vessel for conveying to a slave trader goods and stores that are not included in the equipment article?--I do not.

5322. Therefore the expression is incorrect that our commanders of British cruizers must “experience disappointment at seeing all their arduous efforts for hindering the slave trade factories from receiving their supplies from the foreign vessels engaged in this trade completely nullified by the proceedings of our own merchants and commanders of merchant vessels who supply them with the identical goods and stores, which they capture the foreign vessels for conveying to the coast”?--It is impossible that they can feel disappointment about what never happened.

5323. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Is it your opinion that the law can be altered upon this subject for the better?--I think not; any alteration would, I think, be for the worse. In the next paragraph Dr. Madden states, that he considers it would be desirable that the men-of-war vessels on the coast should only be employed two years. I do not think that any naval officer would agree with him in that respect; it is not till they have been two years on the coast that they become acquainted with the arts of the slave dealers, and thoroughly efficient in the suppression of the slave trade.

5324. In short, it requires considerable experience to ascertain the best means of capturing the slavers?--Certainly; but on all questions relating to service on the coast I would recommend that a naval officer should be examined.

5325. _Chairman._] Dr. Madden suggests, “that instead of head-money, or the bounty of 5_l._ paid for the capture of each slave, the pay of men and officers should be doubled, and the promotion of the former advanced in proportion to the time of service required for it on any other station in a double ratio.” Are you of opinion that any inconvenience arises from the present system of head-money?--I do not think any inconvenience has been found to arise; it was supposed at one time, and stated rather positively in the House of Lords, that such an effect had been produced, but a refutation of the statement was given the same year, for instead of full vessels being taken, there was not one out of 20 that was taken with slaves on board.

5326. You think that the remuneration to the officers is put upon the best and fairest footing now?--I would not say that, because I think the officers are not remunerated sufficiently for empty vessels at present; the sum received for the capture of an empty vessel is so very small, and the sum received for the capture of a full vessel so much larger, that there is no comparison whatever between the two cases; and there is more good done by the capture of an empty vessel, and the service is just as arduous.

5327. Have you ever thought of any other system that could be adopted?--I have suggested an alteration of the bounties on this scale. It appeared that about three times as many vessels were captured under the equipment treaties, as were formerly taken, when only vessels full of slaves were allowed to be captured; and I thought that the remuneration for an empty vessel should be so calculated, that it should amount to about one-third of what the officer would receive if he took a full vessel with the average number of slaves on board. There would be no difficulty in making the calculation, and it would be only fair to the officers to give them that advantage.

5328. No such alteration has been made?--No.

5329. Mr. _W. Patten_.] You would not diminish the head-money to officers when they captured a vessel full of slaves?--No; it has been diminished very greatly the last 12 years, from 10_l._ to 5_l._ a head.

5330. What would be the effect of putting all vessels on the same footing, whether having slaves on board or being empty?--There would be no difficulty.

5331. _Chairman._] Would it not be fairer to make the remuneration independent of the casual circumstance of whether the vessel was full or empty?--Yes; it would be taking away the advantage which the officers now enjoy with full vessels, but I think it would be a fair thing.

5332. Mr. _Forster_.] Are officers entitled to the head-money on slaves taken on shore?--No; the difficulty in that case is, that when taken on shore they are British subjects, if they are taken in British territory, and the British law will not acknowledge that they could be slaves. The difficulty was found some time ago, when a naval officer went to Bulama and captured several hundred slaves who were detained there by the Portuguese; he proceeded in the Admiralty Court, but the judge said, These men are not slaves, they are taken on British territory. The British law will not allow that any person can be a slave on British soil; so that the captor was deprived of his head-money.

5333. A considerable number was taken at the Gallinas by Captain Denman?--Yes.

5334. Will Captain Denman be entitled to head-money upon those persons so captured?--He has never received any thing for them, but I hope he may; if there is any fund from which remuneration on the ordinary scale can be granted, it would be desirable that such cases should be dealt with in the same manner as they would be if brought under the terms of the Act.

5335. Mr. _Evans_.] If the remuneration was on the tonnage of the vessel, supposing it was on the same scale as it is now, would that be a just way of taking it?--Yes; a remuneration on the tonnage, whether full or empty, would be fair, but the scale should be very much raised; at present it is miserably low.

5336. I am supposing that it was raised to the average of the present remuneration for capturing full and empty vessels?--That would be an improvement.

5337. Mr. _W. Patten_.] Is there not more difficulty in capturing a vessel with slaves on board than in capturing an empty vessel?--There is much less difficulty in capturing a vessel with slaves on board.

5338. Are not more exertions used when a vessel has slaves on board?--They run away in both cases; but the vessel is impeded greatly whilst she has her cargo of slaves on board, and there is more chance of capture, and the chase is less likely to be long, than with an empty vessel.

5339. _Chairman._] The security of condemnation is greater?--Yes.

5340. You stated that there was a difficulty in remunerating the officers when slaves were taken on shore, on the ground of their being considered as British subjects; does that apply to Gallinas?--No; the question did not apply there, but to Bulama, because we claimed the sovereignty of that island. There is no remuneration, under any Act of Parliament, for slaves released under those circumstances which occurred at the Gallinas.

5341. Might there not be some question altogether, whether the release of slaves on shore was within the proper functions of a cruizer?--There might, under some circumstances; but in the case referred to it was a voluntary act on the part of the chief of the country releasing those slaves; they were detained there by persons whom the chief considered as his enemies, by whom he was kept in control, and he was relieved from their control by the Wanderer. There was a positive application made by the chief of the country.

5342. Then it was not, properly speaking, a duty imposed upon the commander engaged upon that station?--No, it would be only a duty under peculiar circumstances.

5343. Therefore such a practice would naturally not be contemplated by any Act of Parliament?--No.

5344. Mr. _Forster_.] Do you consider the chiefs of the Gallinas opposed to the slave trade?--No.

5345. How did they happen to apply for relief against the slave dealers?--An illegal act had been committed by those chiefs on the subjects of Sierra Leone, and when redress was demanded the excuse offered by the chiefs was, that they were held in subjection by the resident Spaniards there, and that they could not afford the relief which was required by British subjects, or even prevent British subjects being carried into slavery, in consequence of the control which was exercised over them by the Spanish and Portuguese slave traders.

5346. Do you yourself believe that excuse to be true?--I believe that it was stated; I have no means of judging of its truth.

5347. _Chairman._] It was a justification for the interference of Captain Denman?--Exactly. By the papers presented to Parliament it appeared that some women and children at Sierra Leone, as far as I recollect the case, were taken down to the Gallinas, and were known to be there, and Captain Denman was instructed by the Governor of Sierra Leone to go in and demand their liberation, and also to remonstrate with the chiefs for the offence which had been committed; and also to inquire how it was that British men-of-war boats going into the river were refused all supplies, were not allowed to water, and were even prevented having intercourse with American and other vessels lying in the river. The principal chief then complained of the treatment which he received from the Spaniards and Portuguese, and he requested to be released from their control, and Captain Denman complied with his request.

5348. Mr. _Aldam_.] Were there any British subjects found among the slaves captured at the Gallinas?--None that I am aware of, except those particular ones that Captain Denman demanded, and whom he recovered.

5349. _Chairman._] Do you believe that there are any instances of kidnapping out of the territory of Sierra Leone?--Very few.

At page 34 of Dr. Madden’s Report, there is this passage: “The charges made for the disposal of these effects,” that is, goods sold by public auction, “the captors state, and I believe with truth, are extremely heavy; and in many cases more than half the prize money that the captors had reason to expect, is swallowed up in the charges made by the various officers at Sierra Leone, employed in taking care, and ultimately disposing of, the effects of the captured vessel. On the following cases of slave-trade vessels sent in for adjudication to the Commission Courts at Sierra Leone, by Captain Tucker, of Her Majesty’s ship Wolverine, the charges here detailed were made.” Then follows the schedule; five out of the nine vessels mentioned in that schedule were sold, while I was in the court, and with respect to those five I obtained the heads of the charges yesterday from the Foreign Office. The Vigilante is the first; the charges were 99_l._ 1_s._ 4_d._, and in that case the sum paid to the collector of customs for duty was 18_l._ In the Pampeiro, the charges were 63_l._, the duty was 12_l._ In the Passos, the charges were 22_l._ 8_s._, and the proceeds very small; but in that case the vessel was destroyed at Prince’s Island, and there were also slaves on board, and the whole of those charges, for the vessel was only in port a few days, consisted of the feeding of the slaves, and the duty on the goods which were found on board, and the marshal’s expenses. The reason of the small amount of proceeds was, that there was no vessel, and only a few goods that were brought up in the man-of-war; only a few pieces of cloth, and such things. In the case of the Firmeza, the charges were 1,014_l._ 7_s._ 5_d._, but of that sum the duty paid to the customs was 775_l._, and the translations were 18_l._; so that about 800_l._ was paid by the marshal on those accounts out of 1,014_l._

5350. Mr. _W. Patten_.] The translations do not then appear to be of that onerous nature to the captor, which Dr. Madden, in the previous part of his statement, says that they are?--They are very heavy in some cases: I have known them as high as 60_l._ and 70_l._ In the Emprendador the expenses are 351_l._ 19_s._ 1_d._; of that sum 172_l._ was paid in duty, and 33_l._ in translations, making 205_l._ out of 351_l._ Then the other expenses are the five per cent. to the auctioneer, the marshal’s charges for taking charge of the vessel, and boats and labourers landing cargo, and also a premium of about six or six and-one-eighth per cent. difference between the English money and the currency.

5351. Viscount _Courtenay_.] Are those fees fixed by a scale settled by the court?--The fees were fixed by a regular scale, that has been drawn up on the model of the schedule of fees paid in the Vice-Admiralty Courts, which was approved of by Dr. Lushington and two other gentlemen connected with the Admiralty Court in England, and which schedule was sent out to all the Vice-Admiralty Courts of our colonies, as the rule by which they were to be guided. In many cases our charges were less; but in no case, I believe, were they more than directed in that schedule.

5352. _Chairman._] Since those heavy charges which are alluded to by Dr. Madden have been incurred, the duties, which are one principal source of expense, have been modified according to your recommendation?--They have.

5353. What would have been the result of the reduction in that case of the Firmeza, where the duties appear to have been 775_l._?--The reduction would have been very great indeed. Without knowing on what articles the duty was imposed, I cannot say; but the duty was changed from a fixed to an _ad valorem_ duty; and in the case of the tobacco and spirits of that vessel, the reduction would have been very great; probably it would have struck off 500_l._ at least of the 775_l._

5354. That evil, therefore, is met to a considerable degree?--The evil is met as much as can be expected; indeed, I do not think that there is any thing whatever now that the captors have to complain of.

5355. It cannot be expected that the goods should be sold for the benefit of the captor, free of duty, in a colony where other articles imported pay duty?--No, certainly not.

5356. Viscount _Courtenay_.] Is it in the power of the proctors to make additional charges upon those parties?--The arrangement between the proctor and the captor is left to themselves; the court attempted once to interfere with the charges of the proctors, but they were instructed that it was a matter which they had no control over.

5357. Is that settled by a certain rule of etiquette?--It is settled by practice; there is a certain charge that is made for every vessel now, whether she is troublesome or not; but it is a matter over which the court can have no control whatever.

5358. Are the proctors Europeans?--There have seldom been more than three or four at one time practising.

5359. _Chairman._] Are they men of education?--Yes; the Queen’s advocate is generally one, and the one who gets the most practice; and there are others who are practising attornies in the other courts, who act as proctors in the Mixed Commission Court.