Part 21

_Question_. Suppose that the same man should read the Koran, and come to the conclusion that it is not an inspired book; what ought he to say?

_Answer_. He ought to say that it is not inspired; his fellow-men are entitled to his honest opinion, and it is his duty to do what he can do to destroy a per- nicious superstition.

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_Question_. Suppose then, that a reader of the Bible, having become convinced that it is not inspired-- honestly convinced--says nothing--keeps his con- clusion absolutely to himself, and suppose he dies in that belief, can he be saved?

_Answer_. Certainly not.

_Question_. Has the honesty of his belief anything to do with his future condition?

_Answer_. Nothing whatever.,

_Question_. Suppose that he tried to believe, that he hated to disagree with his friends, and with his parents, but that in spite of himself he was forced to the conclusion that the Bible is not the inspired word of God, would he then deserve eternal punishment?

_Answer_. Certainly he would.

_Question_. Can a man control his belief?

_Answer_. He cannot--except as to the Bible.

_Question_. Do you consider it just in God to create a man who cannot believe the Bible, and then damn him because he does not?

_Answer_. Such is my belief.

_Question_. Is it your candid opinion that a man who does not believe the Bible should keep his belief a secret from his fellow-men?

_Answer_. It is.

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_Question_. How do I know that you believe the Bible? You have told me that if you did not be- lieve it, you would not tell me?

_Answer_. There is no way for you to ascertain, except by taking my word for it.

_Question_. What will be the fate of a man who does not believe it, and yet pretends to believe it?

_Answer_. He will be damned.

_Question_. Then hypocrisy will not save him?

_Answer_. No.

_Question_. And if he does not believe it, and ad- mits that he does not believe it, then his honesty will not save him?

_Answer_. No. Honesty on the wrong side is no better than hypocrisy on the right side.

_Question_. Do we know who wrote the gospels?

_Answer_. Yes; we do.

_Question_. Are we absolutely sure who wrote them?

_Answer_. Of course; we have the evidence as it has come to us through the Catholic Church.

_Question_. Can we rely upon the Catholic Church now?

_Answer_. No; assuredly no! But we have the testimony of Polycarp and Irenæus and Clement,

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and others of the early fathers, together with that of the Christian historian, Eusebius.

_Question_. What do we really know about Polycarp?

_Answer_. We know that he suffered martyrdom un- der Marcus Aurelius, and that for quite a time the fire refused to burn his body, the flames arching over him, leaving him in a kind of fiery tent; and we also know that from his body came a fragrance like frankincense, and that the Pagans were so exasperated at seeing the miracle, that one of them thrust a sword through the body of Polycarp; that the blood flowed out and extinguished the flames and that out of the wound flew the soul of the martyr in the form of a dove.

_Question_. Is that all we know about Polycarp?

_Answer_. Yes, with the exception of a few more like incidents.

_Question_. Do we know that Polycarp ever met St. John?

_Answer_. Yes; Eusebius says so.

_Question_. Are we absolutely certain that he ever lived?

_Answer_. Yes, or Eusebius could not have written about him.

_Question_. Do we know anything of the character of Eusebius?

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_Answer_. Yes; we know that he was untruthful only when he wished to do good. But God can use even the dishonest. Other books have to be sub- stantiated by truthful men, but such is the power of God, that he can establish the inspiration of the Bible by the most untruthful witnesses. If God's witnesses were honest, anybody could believe, and what be- comes of faith, one of the greatest virtues?

_Question_. Is the New Testament now the same as it was in the days of the early fathers?

_Answer_. Certainly not. Many books now thrown out, and not esteemed of divine origin, were esteemed divine by Polycarp and Irenæus and Clement and many of the early churches. These books are now called "apocryphal."

_Question_. Have you not the same witnesses in favor of their authenticity, that you have in favor of the gospels?

_Answer_. Precisely the same. Except that they were thrown out.

_Question_. Why were they thrown out?

_Answer_. Because the Catholic Church did not es- teem them inspired.

_Question_. Did the Catholics decide for us which are the true gospels and which are the true epistles?

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_Answer_. Yes. The Catholic Church was then the only church, and consequently must have been the true church.

_Question_. How did the Catholic Church select the true books?

_Answer_. Councils were called, and votes were taken, very much as we now pass resolutions in political meetings.

_Question_. Was the Catholic Church infallible then?

_Answer_. It was then, but it is not now.

_Question_. If the Catholic Church at that time had thrown out the book of Revelation, would it now be our duty to believe that book to have been inspired?

_Answer_. No, I suppose not.

_Question_. Is it not true that some of these books were adopted by exceedingly small majorities?

_Answer_. It is.

_Question_. If the Epistle to the Hebrews and to the Romans, and the book of Revelation had been thrown out, could a man now be saved who honestly believes the rest of the books?

_Answer_. This is doubtful.

_Question_. Were the men who picked out the in- spired books inspired?

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_Answer_. We cannot tell, but the probability is that they were.

_Question_. Do we know that they picked out the right ones?

_Answer_. Well, not exactly, but we believe that they did.

_Question_. Are we certain that some of the books that were thrown out were not inspired?

_Answer_. Well, the only way to tell is to read them carefully.

_Question_. If upon reading these apocryphal books a man concludes that they are not inspired, will he be damned for that reason?

_Answer_. No. Certainly not.

_Question_. If he concludes that some of them are inspired, and believes them, will he then be damned for that belief?

_Answer_. Oh, no! Nobody is ever damned for believing too much.

_Question_. Does the fact that the books now com- prising the New Testament were picked out by the Catholic Church prevent their being examined now by an honest man, as they were examined at the time they were picked out?

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_Answer_. No; not if the man comes to the con- clusion that they are inspired.

_Question_. Does the fact that the Catholic Church picked them out and declared them to be inspired, render it a crime to examine them precisely as you would examine the books that the Catholic Church threw out and declared were not inspired?

_Answer_. I think it does.

_Question_. At the time the council was held in which it was determined which of the books of the New Testament are inspired, a respectable minority voted against some that were finally decided to be inspired. If they were honest in the vote they gave, and died without changing their opinions, are they now in hell?

_Answer_. Well, they ought to be.

_Question_. If those who voted to leave the book of Revelation out of the canon, and the gospel of Saint John out of the canon, believed honestly that these were not inspired books, how should they have voted?

_Answer_. Well, I suppose a man ought to vote as he honestly believes--except in matters of religion.

_Question_. If the Catholic Church was not infal- lible, is the question still open as to what books are, and what are not, inspired?

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_Answer_. I suppose the question is still open-- but it would be dangerous to decide it.

_Question_. If, then, I examine all the books again, and come to the conclusion that some that were thrown out were inspired, and some that were ac- cepted were not inspired, ought I to say so?

_Answer_. Not if it is contrary to the faith of your father, or calculated to interfere with your own po- litical prospects.

_Question_. Is it as great a sin to admit into the Bible books that are uninspired as to reject those that are inspired?

_Answer_. Well, it is a crime to reject an inspired book, no matter how unsatisfactory the evidence is for its inspiration, but it is not a crime to receive an uninspired book. God damns nobody for believing too much. An excess of credulity is simply to err in the direction of salvation.

_Question_. Suppose a man disbelieves in the inspira- tion of the New Testament--believes it to be entirely the work of uninspired men; and suppose he also be- lieves--but not from any evidence obtained in the New Testament--that Jesus Christ was the son of God, and that he made atonement for his soul, can he then be saved without a belief in the inspiration of the Bible?

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_Answer_. This has not yet been decided by our church, and I do not wish to venture an opinion.

_Question_. Suppose a man denies the inspiration of the Scriptures; suppose that he also denies the divinity of Jesus Christ; and suppose, further, that he acts precisely as Christ is said to have acted; suppose he loves his enemies, prays for those who despitefully use him, and does all the good he pos- sibly can, is it your opinion that such a man will be saved?

_Answer_. No, sir. There is "none other name "given under heaven and among men," whereby a sinner can be saved but the name of Christ.

_Question_. Then it is your opinion that God would save a murderer who believed in Christ, and would damn another man, exactly like Christ, who failed to believe in him?

_Answer_. Yes; because we have the blessed promise that, out of Christ, "our God is a consuming "fire."

_Question_. Suppose a man read the Bible care- fully and honestly, and was not quite convinced that it was true, and that while examining the subject, he died; what then?

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_Answer_. I do not believe that God would allow him to examine the matter in another world, or to make up his mind in heaven. Of course, he would eternally perish.

_Question_. Could Christ now furnish evidence enough to convince every human being of the truth of the Bible?

_Answer_. Of course he could, because he is in- finite.

_Question_. Are any miracles performed now?

_Answer_. Oh, no!

_Question_. Have we any testimony, except human testimony, to substantiate any miracle?

_Answer_. Only human testimony.

_Question_. Do all men give the same force to the same evidence?

_Answer_. By no means.

_Question_. Have all honest men who have exam- ined the Bible believed it to be inspired?

_Answer_. Of course they have. Infidels are not honest.

_Question_. Could any additional evidence have been furnished?

_Answer_. With perfect ease.

_Question_. Would God allow a soul to suffer

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eternal agony rather than furnish evidence of the truth of his Bible?

_Answer_. God has furnished plenty of evidence, and altogether more than was really necessary. We should read the Bible in a believing spirit.

_Question_. Are all parts of the inspired books equally true?

_Answer_. Necessarily.

_Question_. According to Saint Matthew, God promises to forgive all who will forgive others; not one word is said about believing in Christ, or believ- ing in the miracles, or in any Bible; did Matthew tell the truth?

_Answer_. The Bible must be taken as a whole; and if other conditions are added somewhere else, then you must comply with those other conditions. Matthew may not have stated all the conditions.

_Question_. I find in another part of the New Testament, that a young man came to Christ and asked him what was necessary for him to do in order that he might inherit eternal life. Christ did not tell him that he must believe the Bible, or that he must believe in him, or that he must keep the Sabbath- day; was Christ honest with that young man?

_Answer_. Well, I suppose he was.

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_Question_. You will also recollect that Zaccheus said to Christ, that where he had wronged any man he had made restitution, and further, that half his goods he had given to the poor; and you will re- member that Christ said to Zaccheus: "This day "hath salvation come to thy house." Why did not Christ tell Zaccheus that he "must be born again;" that he must "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ"?

_Answer_. Of course there are mysteries in our holy religion that only those who have been "born "again" can understand. You must remember that "the carnal mind is enmity with God."

_Question_. Is it not strange that Christ, in his Ser- mon on the Mount, did not speak of "regeneration," or of the "scheme of salvation"?

_Answer_. Well, it may be.

_Question_. Can a man be saved now by living exactly in accordance with the Sermon on the Mount?

_Answer_. He can not.

_Question_. Would then a man, by following the course of conduct prescribed by Christ in the Sermon on the Mount, lose his soul?

_Answer_. He most certainly would, because there is not one word in the Sermon on the Mount about believing on the Lord Jesus Christ; not one word

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about believing in the Bible; not one word about the "atonement;" not one word about "regeneration." So that, if the Presbyterian Church is right, it is abso- lutely certain that a man might follow the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount, and live in accordance with its every word, and yet deserve and receive the eternal condemnation of God. But we must remem- ber that the Sermon on the Mount was preached be- fore Christianity existed. Christ was talking to Jews.

_Question_. Did Christ write anything himself, in the New Testament?

_Answer_. Not a word.

_Question_. Did he tell any of his disciples to write any of his words?

_Answer_. There is no account of it, if he did.

_Question_. Do we know whether any of the dis- ciples wrote anything?

_Answer_. Of course they did.

_Question_. How do you know?

_Answer_. Because the gospels bear their names.

_Question_. Are you satisfied that Christ was abso- lutely God?

_Answer_. Of course he was. We believe that Christ and God and the Holy Ghost are all the same, that the three form one, and that each one is three.

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_Question_. Was Christ the God of the universe at the time of his birth?

_Answer_. He certainly was.

_Question_. Was he the infinite God, creator and controller of the entire universe, before he was born?

_Answer_. Of course he was. This is the mystery of "God manifest in the flesh." The infidels have pretended that he was like any other child, and was in fact supported by Nature instead of being the supporter of Nature. They have insisted that like other children, he had to be cared for by his mother. Of course he appeared to be cared for by his mother. It was a part of the plan that in all respects he should appear to be like other children.

_Question_. Did he know just as much before he was born as after?

_Answer_. If he was God of course he did.

_Question_. How do you account for the fact that Saint Luke tells us, in the last verse of the second chapter of his gospel, that "Jesus increased in wis- "dom and stature"?

_Answer_. That I presume is a figure of speech; because, if he was God, he certainly could not have increased in wisdom. The physical part of him could

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increase in stature, but the intellectual part must have been infinite all the time.

_Question_. Do you think that Luke was mistaken?

_Answer_. No; I believe what Luke said. If it appears untrue, or impossible, then I know that it is figurative or symbolical.

_Question_. Did I understand you to say that Christ was actually God?

_Answer_. Of course he was.

_Question_. Then why did Luke say in the same verse of the same chapter that "Jesus increased in "favor with God"?

_Answer_. I dare you to go into a room by your- self and read the fourteenth chapter of Saint John!

_Question_. Is it necessary to understand the Bible in order to be saved?

_Answer_. Certainly not; it is only necessary that you believe it.

_Question_. Is it necessary to believe all the miracles?

_Answer_. It may not be necessary, but as it is im- possible to tell which ones can safely be left out, you had better believe them all.

_Question_. Then you regard belief as the safe way?

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_Answer_. Of course it is better to be fooled in this world than to be damned in the next.

_Question_. Do you think that there are any cruel- ties on God's part recorded in the Bible?

_Answer_. At first flush, many things done by God himself, as well as by his prophets, appear to be cruel; but if we examine them closely, we will find them to be exactly the opposite.

_Question_. How do you explain the story of Elisha and the children,--where the two she-bears destroyed forty-two children on account of their impudence?

_Answer_. This miracle, in my judgment, estab- lishes two things: 1. That children should be polite to ministers, and 2. That God is kind to animals-- "giving them their meat in due season." These bears have been great educators--they are the foundation of the respect entertained by the young for theologians. No child ever sees a minister now without thinking of a bear.

_Question_. What do you think of the story of Daniel--you no doubt remember it? Some men told the king that Daniel was praying contrary to law, and thereupon Daniel was cast into a den of lions; but the lions could not touch him, their mouths having been shut by angels. The next

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morning, the king, finding that Daniel was still intact, had him taken out; and then, for the purpose of gratifying Daniels God, the king had all the men who had made the complaint against Daniel, and their wives and their little children, brought and cast into the lions' den. According to the account, the lions were so hungry that they caught these wives and children as they dropped, and broke all their bones in pieces before they had even touched the ground. Is it not wonderful that God failed to pro- tect these innocent wives and children?

_Answer_. These wives and children were heathen; they were totally depraved. And besides, they were used as witnesses. The fact that they were devoured with such quickness shows that the lions were hungry. Had it not been for this, infidels would have accounted for the safety of Daniel by saying that the lions had been fed.

_Question_. Do you believe that Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were cast "into a burning fiery furnace "heated one seven times hotter than it was wont to "be heated," and that they had on "their coats, their "hosen and their hats," and that when they came out "not a hair of their heads was singed, nor was "the smell of fire upon their garments"?

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_Answer_. The evidence of this miracle is exceed- ingly satisfactory. It resulted in the conversion of Nebuchadnezzar.

_Question_. How do you know he was converted?

_Answer_. Because immediately after the miracle the king issued a decree that "every people, nation "and language that spoke anything amiss against "the God of Shadrach and Company, should be cut "in pieces." This decree shows that he had become a true disciple and worshiper of Jehovah.

_Question_. If God in those days preserved from the fury of the fire men who were true to him and would not deny his name, why is it that he has failed to protect thousands of martyrs since that time?

_Answer_. This is one of the divine mysteries. God has in many instances allowed his enemies to kill his friends. I suppose this was allowed for the good of his enemies, that the heroism of the mar- tyrs might convert them.

_Question_. Do you believe all the miracles?

_Answer_. I believe them all, because I believe the Bible to be inspired.

_Question_. What makes you think it is inspired?

_Answer_. I have never seen anybody who knew it was not; besides, my father and mother believed it.

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_Question_. Have you any other reasons for be- lieving it to be inspired?

_Answer_. Yes; there are more copies of the Bible printed than of any other book; and it is printed in more languages. And besides, it would be impossible to get along without it.

_Question_. Why could we not get along without it?

_Answer_. We would have nothing to swear wit- nesses by; no book in which to keep the family record; nothing for the centre-table, and nothing for a mother to give her son. No nation can be civilized without the Bible.

_Question_. Did God always know that a Bible was necessary to civilize a country?

_Answer_. Certainly he did.

_Question_. Why did he not give a Bible to the Egyptians, the Hindus, the Greeks and the Romans?

_Answer_. It is astonishing what perfect fools in- fidels are.

_Question_. Why do you call infidels "fools"?

_Answer_. Because I find in the fifth chapter of the gospel according to Matthew the following: "Who- "soever shall say 'Thou fool!' shall be in danger of "hell fire."

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_Question_. Have I the right to read the Bible?

_Answer_. Yes. You not only have the right, but it is your duty.

_Question_. In reading the Bible the words make certain impressions on my mind. These impressions depend upon my brain,--upon my intelligence. Is not this true?

_Answer_. Of course, when you read the Bible, im- pressions are made upon your mind.

_Question_. Can I control these impressions?

_Answer_. I do not think you can, as long as you remain in a sinful state.

_Question_. How am I to get out of this sinful state?

_Answer_. You must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you must read the Bible in a prayerful spirit and with a believing heart.

_Question_. Suppose that doubts force themselves upon my mind?

_Answer_. Then you will know that you are a sin- ner, and that you are depraved.

_Question_. If I have the right to read the Bible, have I the right to try to understand it?

_Answer_. Most assuredly.

_Question_. Do you admit that I have the right to reason about it and to investigate it?

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_Answer_. Yes; I admit that. Of course you can- not help reasoning about what you read.

_Question_. Does the right to read a book include the right to give your opinion as to the truth of what the book contains?

_Answer_. Of course,--if the book is not inspired. Infidels hate the Bible because it is inspired, and Christians know that it is inspired because infidels say that it is not.

_Question_. Have I the right to decide for myself whether or not the book is inspired?

_Answer_. You have no right to deny the truth of God's Holy Word.

_Question_. Is God the author of all books?

_Answer_. Certainly not.

_Question_. Have I the right to say that God did not write the Koran?

_Answer_. Yes.

_Question_. Why?

_Answer_. Because the Koran was written by an impostor.

_Question_. How do you know?

_Answer_. My reason tells me so.

_Question_. Have you the right to be guided by your reason?

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_Answer_. I must be.

_Question_. Have you the same right to follow your reason after reading the Bible?

_Answer_. No. The Bible is the standard of reason. The Bible is not to be judged or corrected by your reason. Your reason is to be weighed and measured by the Bible. The Bible is different from other books and must not be read in the same critical spirit, nor judged by the same standard.

_Question_. What did God give us reason for?

_Answer_. So that we might investigate other religions, and examine other so-called sacred books.

_Question_. If a man honestly thinks that the Bible is not inspired, what should he say?

_Answer_. He should admit that he is mistaken.

_Question_. When he thinks he is right?

_Answer_. Yes. The Bible is different from other books. It is the master of reason. You read the Bible, not to see if that is wrong, but to see whether your reason is right. It is the only book about which a man has no right to reason. He must believe. The Bible is addressed, not to the reason, but to the ears: "He that hath ears to hear, let "him hear."

_Question_. Do you think we have the right to tell

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what the Bible means--what ideas God intended to convey, or has conveyed to us, through the medium of the Bible?