Part 19

_Answer_. By water; it rained forty days and forty nights, and "the fountains of the great deep were "broken up."

_Question_. How deep was the water?

_Answer_. About five miles.

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_Question_. How much did it rain each day?

_Answer_. About eight hundred feet; though the better opinion now is, that it was a local flood. In- fidels have raised objections and pressed them to that degree that most orthodox people admit that the flood was rather local.

_Question_. If it was a local flood, why did they put birds of the air into the ark? Certainly, birds could have avoided a local flood?

_Answer_. If you take this away from us, what do you propose to give us in its place? Some of the best people of the world have believed this story. Kind husbands, loving mothers, and earnest patriots have believed it, and that is sufficient.

_Question_. At the time God made these people, did he know that he would have to drown them all?

_Answer_. Of course he did.

_Question_. Did he know when he made them that they would all be failures?

_Answer_. Of course.

_Question_. Why, then, did he make them?

_Answer_. He made them for his own glory, and no man should disgrace his parents by denying it.

_Question_. Were the people after the flood just as bad as they were before?

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_Answer_. About the same.

_Question_. Did they try to circumvent God?

_Answer_. They did.

_Question_. How?

_Answer_. They got together for the purpose of build- ing a tower, the top of which should reach to heaven, so that they could laugh at any future floods, and go to heaven at any time they desired.

_Question_. Did God hear about this?

_Answer_. He did.

_Question_. What did he say?

_Answer_. He said: "Go to; let us go down," and see what the people are doing; I am satisfied they will succeed.

_Question_. How were the people prevented from succeeding?

_Answer_. God confounded their language, so that the mason on top could not cry "mort'!" to the hod-carrier below; he could not think of the word to use, to save his life, and the building stopped.

_Question_. If it had not been for the confusion of tongues at Babel, do you really think that all the people in the world would have spoken just the same language, and would have pronounced every word precisely the same?

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_Answer_. Of course.

_Question_. If it had not been, then, for the con- fusion of languages, spelling books, grammars and dictionaries would have been useless?

_Answer_. I suppose so.

_Question_. Do any two people in the whole world speak the same language, now?

_Answer_. Of course they don't, and this is one of the great evidences that God introduced confusion into the languages. Every error in grammar, every mistake in spelling, every blunder in pronunciation, proves the truth of the Babel story.

_Question_. This being so, this miracle is the best attested of all?

_Answer_. I suppose it is.

_Question_. Do you not think that a confusion of tongues would bring men together instead of separa- ting them? Would not a man unable to converse with his fellow feel weak instead of strong; and would not people whose language had been con- founded cling together for mutual support?

_Answer_. According to nature, yes; according to theology, no; and these questions must be answered according to theology. And right here, it may be well enough to state, that in theology the unnatural

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is the probable, and the impossible is what has always happened. If theology were simply natural, anybody could be a theologian.

_Question_. Did God ever make any other special efforts to convert the people, or to reform the world?

_Answer_. Yes, he destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah with a storm of fire and brimstone.

_Question_. Do you suppose it was really brim- stone?

_Answer_. Undoubtedly.

_Question_. Do you think this brimstone came from the clouds?

_Answer_. Let me tell you that you have no right to examine the Bible in the light of what people are pleased to call "science." The natural has nothing to do with the supernatural. Naturally there would be no brimstone in the clouds, but supernaturally there might be. God could make brimstone out of his "omnipotence." We do not know really what brimstone is, and nobody knows exactly how brim- stone is made. As a matter of fact, all the brimstone in the world might have fallen at that time.

_Question_. Do you think that Lot's wife was changed into salt?

_Answer_. Of course she was. A miracle was per-

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formed. A few centuries ago, the statue of salt made by changing Lot's wife into that article, was standing. Christian travelers have seen it.

_Question_. Why do you think she was changed into salt?

_Answer_. For the purpose of keeping the event fresh in the minds of men.

_Question_. God having failed to keep people in- nocent in a garden; having failed to govern them outside of a garden; having failed to reform them by water; having failed to produce any good result by a confusion of tongues; having failed to reform them with fire and brimstone, what did he then do?

_Answer_. He concluded that he had no time to waste on them all, but that he would have to select one tribe, and turn his entire attention to just a few folks.

_Question_. Whom did he select?

_Answer_. A man by the name of Abram.

_Question_. What kind of man was Abram?

_Answer_. If you wish to know, read the twelfth chapter of Genesis; and if you still have any doubts as to his character, read the twentieth chapter of the same book, and you will see that he was a man who made merchandise of his wife's body. He had had

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such good fortune in Egypt, that he tried the experi- ment again on Abimelech.

_Question_. Did Abraham show any gratitude?

_Answer_. Yes; he offered to sacrifice his son, to show his confidence in Jehovah.

_Question_. What became of Abraham and his people?

_Answer_. God took such care of them, that in about two hundred and fifteen years they were all slaves in the land of Egypt.

_Question_. How long did they remain in slavery?

_Answer_. Two hundred and fifteen years.

_Question_. Were they the same people that God had promised to take care of?

_Answer_. They were.

_Question_. Was God at that time, in favor of slavery?

_Answer_. Not at that time. He was angry at the Egyptians for enslaving the Jews, but he afterwards authorized the Jews to enslave other people.

_Question_. What means did he take to liberate the Jews?

_Answer_. He sent his agents to Pharaoh, and de- manded their freedom; and upon Pharaoh s refusing, he afflicted the people, who had nothing to do with

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it, with various plagues,--killed children, and tor- mented and tortured beasts.

_Question_. Was such conduct Godlike?

_Answer_. Certainly. If you have anything against your neighbor, it is perfectly proper to torture his horse, or torment his dog. Nothing can be nobler than this. You see it is much better to injure his animals than to injure him. To punish animals for the sins of their owners must be just, or God would not have done it. Pharaoh insisted on keeping the people in slavery, and therefore God covered the bodies of oxen and cows with boils. He also bruised them to death with hailstones. From this we infer, that "the loving kindness of God is over all his works."

_Question_. Do you consider such treatment of ani- mals consistent with divine mercy?

_Answer_. Certainly. You know that under the Mosaic dispensation, when a man did a wrong, he could settle with God by killing an ox, or a sheep, or some doves. If the man failed to kill them, of course God would kill them. It was upon this prin- ciple that he destroyed the animals of the Egyptians. They had sinned, and he merely took his pay.

_Question_. How was it possible, under the old dis- pensation, to please a being of infinite kindness?

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_Answer_. All you had to do was to take an innocent animal, bring it to the altar, cut its throat, and sprinkle the altar with its blood. Certain parts of it were to be given to the butcher as his share, and the rest was to be burnt on the altar. When God saw an animal thus butchered, and smelt the warm blood mingled with the odor of burning flesh, he was pacified, and the smile of forgiveness shed its light upon his face. Of course, infidels laugh at these things; but what can you expect of men who have not been "born "again"? "The carnal mind is enmity with God." _Question_. What else did God do in order to in- duce Pharaoh to liberate the Jews?

_Answer_. He had his agents throw down a cane in the presence of Pharaoh and thereupon Jehovah changed this cane into a serpent.

_Question_. Did this convince Pharaoh?

_Answer_. No; he sent for his own magicians. _Question_. What did they do?

_Answer_. They threw down some canes and they also were changed into serpents.

_Question_. Did Jehovah change the canes of the Egyptian magicians into snakes?

_Answer_. I suppose he did, as he is the only one capable of performing such a miracle.

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_Question_. If the rod of Aaron was changed into a serpent in order to convince Pharaoh that God had sent Aaron and Moses, why did God change the sticks of the Egyptian magicians into serpents--why did he discredit his own agents, and render worth- less their only credentials?

_Answer_. Well, we cannot explain the conduct of Jehovah; we are perfectly satisfied that it was for the best. Even in this age of the world God allows infidels to overwhelm his chosen people with argu- ments; he allows them to discover facts that his ministers can not answer, and yet we are satisfied that in the end God will give the victory to us. All these things are tests of faith. It is upon this prin- ciple that God allows geology to laugh at Genesis, that he permits astronomy apparently to contradict his holy word.

_Question_. What did God do with these people after Pharaoh allowed them to go?

_Answer_. Finding that they were not fit to settle a new country, owing to the fact that when hungry they longed for food, and sometimes when their lips were cracked with thirst insisted on having water, God in his infinite mercy had them marched round and round, back and forth, through a barren wilder-

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ness, until all, with the exception of two persons, died.

_Question_. Why did he do this?

_Answer_. Because he had promised these people that he would take them "to a land flowing with "milk and honey."

_Question_. Was God always patient and kind and merciful toward his children while they were in the wilderness?

_Answer_. Yes, he always was merciful and kind and patient. Infidels have taken the ground that he visited them with plagues and disease and famine; that he had them bitten by serpents, and now and then allowed the ground to swallow a few thousands of them, and in other ways saw to it that they were kept as comfortable and happy as was consistent with good government; but all these things were for their good; and the fact is, infidels have no real sense of justice.

_Question_. How did God happen to treat the Is- raelites in this way, when he had promised Abraham that he would take care of his progeny, and when he had promised the same to the poor wretches while they were slaves in Egypt?

_Answer_. Because God is unchangeable in his na-

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ture, and wished to convince them that every being should be perfectly faithful to his promise.

_Question_. Was God driven to madness by the conduct of his chosen people?

_Answer_. Almost.

_Question_. Did he know exactly what they would do when he chose them?

_Answer_. Exactly.

_Question_. Were the Jews guilty of idolatry?

_Answer_. They were. They worshiped other gods --gods made of wood and stone.

_Question_. Is it not wonderful that they were not convinced of the power of God, by the many mira- cles wrought in Egypt and in the wilderness?

_Answer_. Yes, it is very wonderful; but the Jews, who must have seen bread rained from heaven; who saw water gush from the rocks and follow them up hill and down; who noticed that their clothes did not wear out, and did not even get shiny at the knees, while the elbows defied the ravages of time, and their shoes remained perfect for forty years; it is wonderful that when they saw the ground open and swallow their comrades; when they saw God talking face to face with Moses as a man talks with his friend; after they saw the cloud by day and the

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pillar of fire by night,--it is absolutely astonishing that they had more faith in a golden calf that they made themselves, than in Jehovah.

_Question_. How is it that the Jews had no confi- dence in these miracles?

_Answer_. Because they were there and saw them.

_Question_. Do you think that it is necessary for us to believe all the miracles of the Old Testament in order to be saved?

_Answer_. The Old Testament is the foundation of the New. If the Old Testament is not inspired, then the New is of no value. If the Old Testament is inspired, all the miracles are true, and we cannot believe that God would allow any errors, or false statements, to creep into an inspired volume, and to be perpetuated through all these years.

_Question_. Should we believe the miracles, whether they are reasonable or not?

_Answer_. Certainly; if they were reasonable, they would not be miracles. It is their unreasonableness that appeals to our credulity and our faith. It is im- possible to have theological faith in anything that can be demonstrated. It is the office of faith to believe, not only without evidence, but in spite of evidence. It is impossible for the carnal mind to

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believe that Samsons muscle depended upon the length of his hair. "God has made the wisdom of "this world foolishness." Neither can the uncon- verted believe that Elijah stopped at a hotel kept by ravens. Neither can they believe that a barrel would in and of itself produce meal, or that an earthen pot could create oil. But to a Christian, in order that a widow might feed a preacher, the truth of these stories is perfectly apparent.

_Question_. How should we regard the wonderful stories of the Old Testament?

_Answer_. They should be looked upon as "types" and "symbols." They all have a spiritual signifi- cance. The reason I believe the story of Jonah is, that Jonah is a type of Christ.

_Question_. Do you believe the story of Jonah to be a true account of a literal fact?

_Answer_. Certainly. You must remember that Jonah was not swallowed by a whale. God "pre- "pared a great fish" for that occasion. Neither is it by any means certain that Jonah was in the belly of this whale. "He probably stayed in his mouth." Even if he was in his stomach, it was very easy for him to defy the ordinary action of gastric juice by rapidly walking up and down..

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_Question_. Do you think that Jonah was really in the whale's stomach?

_Answer_. My own opinion is that he stayed in his mouth. The only objection to this theory is, that it is more reasonable than the other and requires less faith. Nothing could be easier than for God to make a fish large enough to furnish ample room for one passenger in his mouth. I throw out this suggestion simply that you may be able to answer the objections of infidels who are always laughing at this story.

_Question_. Do you really believe that Elijah went to heaven in a chariot of fire, drawn by horses of fire?

_Answer_. Of course he did.

_Question_. What was this miracle performed for?

_Answer_. To convince the people of the power of God.

_Question_. Who saw the miracle?

_Answer_. Nobody but Elisha.

_Question_. Was he convinced before that time?

_Answer_. Oh yes; he was one of God's prophets.

_Question_. Suppose that in these days two men should leave a town together, and after a while one of them should come back having on the clothes of the other, and should account for the fact that he had

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his friend's clothes by saying that while they were going along the road together a chariot of fire came down from heaven drawn by fiery steeds, and there- upon his friend got into the carriage, threw him his clothes, and departed,--would you believe it?

_Answer_. Of course things like that don't happen in these days; God does not have to rely on wonders now.

_Question_. Do you mean that he performs no miracles at the present day?

_Answer_. We cannot say that he does not perform miracles now, but we are not in position to call atten- tion to any particular one. Of course he supervises the affairs of nations and men and does whatever in his judgment is necessary.

_Question_. Do you think that Samson's strength depended on the length of his hair?

_Answer_. The Bible so states, and the Bible is true. A physiologist might say that a man could not use the muscle in his hair for lifting purposes, but these same physiologists could not tell you how you move a finger, nor how you lift a feather; still, actuated by the pride of intellect, they insist that the length of a man's hair could not determine his strength. God says it did; the physiologist says that it did not; we

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can not hesitate whom to believe. For the purpose of avoiding eternal agony I am willing to believe anything; I am willing to say that strength depends upon the length of hair, or faith upon the length of ears. I am perfectly willing to believe that a man caught three hundred foxes, and put fire brands be- tween their tails; that he slew thousands with a bone, and that he made a bee hive out of a lion. I will believe, if necessary, that when this man's hair was short he hardly had strength enough to stand, and that when it was long, he could carry away the gates of a city, or overthrow a temple filled with people. If the infidel is right, I will lose nothing by believing, but if he is wrong, I shall gain an eternity of joy. If God did not intend that we should believe these stories, he never would have told them, and why should a man put his soul in peril by trying to dis- prove one of the statements of the Lord?

_Question_. Suppose it should turn out that some of these miracles depend upon mistranslations of the original Hebrew, should we still believe them?

_Answer_. The safe side is the best side. It is far better to err on the side of belief, than on the side of infidelity. God does not threaten anybody with eternal punishment for believing too much.

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Danger lies on the side of investigation, on the side of thought. The perfectly idiotic are absolutely safe. As they diverge from that point,--as they rise in the intellectual scale, as the brain develops, as the faculties enlarge, the danger increases. I know that some biblical students now take the ground that Samson caught no foxes,--that he only took sheaves of wheat that had been already cut and bound, set them on fire, and threw them into the grain still standing. If this is what he did, of course there is nothing miraculous about it, and the value of the story is lost. So, others contend that Elijah was not fed by the ravens, but by the Arabs. They tell us that the Hebrew word standing for "Arab" also stands for "bird," and that the word really means "migratory--going from place to place--homeless." But I prefer the old version. It certainly will do no harm to believe that ravens brought bread and flesh to a prophet of God. Where they got their bread and flesh is none of my business; how they knew where the prophet was, and recognized him; or how God talks to ravens, or how he gave them directions, I have no right to inquire. I leave these questions to the scientists, the blasphemers, and thinkers. There are many people in the church anxious to

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get the miracles out of the Bible, and thousands, I have no doubt, would be greatly gratified to learn that there is, in fact, nothing miraculous in Scripture; but when you take away the miraculous, you take away the supernatural; when you take away the supernatural, you destroy the ministry; and when you take away the ministry, hundreds of thousands of men will be left without employment.

_Question_. Is it not wonderful that the Egyptians were not converted by the miracles wrought in their country?

_Answer_. Yes, they all would have been, if God had not purposely hardened their hearts to prevent it. Jehovah always took great delight in furnishing the evidence, and then hardening the man's heart so that he would not believe it. After all the miracles that had been performed in Egypt,--the most won- derful that were ever done in any country, the Egyptians were as unbelieving as at first; they pur- sued the Israelites, knowing that they were protected by an infinite God, and failing to overwhelm them, came back and worshiped their own false gods just as firmly as before. All of which shows the unreason- ableness of a Pagan, and the natural depravity of human nature.

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_Question_. How did it happen that the Canaanites were never convinced that the Jews were assisted by Jehovah?

_Answer_. They must have been an exceedingly brave people to contend so many years with the chosen people of God. Notwithstanding all their cities were burned time and time again; notwith- standing all the men, women and children were put to the edge of the sword; notwithstanding the taking of all their cattle and sheep, they went right on fighting just as valiantly and desperately as ever. Each one lost his life many times, and was just as ready for the next conflict. My own opinion is, that God kept them alive by raising them from the dead after each battle, for the purpose of punishing the Jews. God used his enemies as instruments for the civilization of the Jewish people. He did not wish to convert them, because they would give him much more trouble as Jews than they did as Canaanites. He had all the Jews he could conveniently take care of. He found it much easier to kill a hundred Canaanites than to civilize one Jew.

_Question_. How do you account for the fact that the heathen were not surprised at the stopping of the sun and moon?

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_Answer_. They were so ignorant that they had not the slightest conception of the real cause of the phenomenon. Had they known the size of the earth, and the relation it sustained to the other heavenly bodies; had they known the magnitude of the sun, and the motion of the moon, they would, in all probability, have been as greatly astonished as the Jews were; but being densely ignorant of as- tronomy, it must have produced upon them not the slightest impression. But we must remember that the sun and moon were not stopped for the purpose of converting these people, but to give Joshua more time to kill them. As soon as we see clearly the purpose of Jehovah, we instantly perceive how ad- mirable were the means adopted.

_Question_. Do you not consider the treatment of the Canaanites to have been cruel and ferocious?

_Answer_. To a totally depraved man, it does look cruel; to a being without any good in him,--to one who has inherited the rascality of many generations, the murder of innocent women and little children does seem horrible; to one who is "contaminated in "all his parts," by original sin,--who was "conceived "in sin, and brought forth in iniquity," the assassina- tion of men, and the violation of captive maidens,

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