Part 6

_Mr. Park._ If they had asked was it that cap I should not object to it if they were prepared to prove that was the cap, but they might send to Covent Garden wardrobe and fetch all these things?

_Mr. Gurney._ I undertake to prove by the person who made the dress for De Berenger, that these are fac similes of the articles of dress made for him.

_Mr. Park._ You stated that very expressly and very clearly.

_Lord Ellenborough._ Unless his recollection goes to their being such things, I think it would not go far; it is a thing that occurs every day, I have seen it twenty times at the Old Bailey.

_Mr. Park._ It assists the recollection of the witness, which I say my learned friends are not entitled to do.

_Lord Ellenborough._ When the witness has given a previous description of the dress, it is very usual to ask wherein does it differ, or what sort of a thing is it--they must first lay the foundation for the production which I think they have done in this case.

_Mr. Bolland._ Had he a cap upon his head similar to that?

_A._ Yes he had.

_Q._ Had that gold lace on?

_A._ It had.

_Q._ You say the gentleman was walking up and down the room?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Did he say any thing in your presence?

_A._ I asked him what the news was.

_Lord Ellenborough._ How came you to ask that?

_A._ Because I had heard Mr. Marsh say he was a Messenger come over.

_Mr. Bolland._ Did he reply to that?

_A._ He told me that Messengers were sworn to secrecy, but that he had got glorious news he had brought over to England, the best that ever was known for this country.

_Q._ Had you any further conversation with him?

_A._ He rung the bell and called for a pen, ink and paper, to write a letter to send off to the Admiral at Deal.

_Q._ Was that brought to him?

_A._ It was, and he was writing the letter some little time while I was there, and I bid him good night after that.

_Q._ Did you take leave of him before he had finished the letter?

_A._ I did.

_Q._ Where were the candles during the time that he was writing the letter?

_A._ On the table.

_Q._ Were they sufficiently near him to enable you to observe him?

_A._ Yes they were.

_Q._ Can you point out to the Court that person who wrote that letter on that night?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Will you point him out?

_A._ Yes, that is the gentleman (_pointing to De Berenger_.)

_Q._ Have you any doubt upon your mind of that?

_A._ None in the least.

_Cross-examined by Mr. Richardson._

_Q._ You did not come over until you were called for by Mr. Marsh to bring candles?

_A._ No I did not.

_Q._ You were immediately sent to order horses, were you not?

_A._ Yes, I went and called the ostler up.

_Q._ I think you state that you were absent some time in performing that service?

_A._ Yes, I was some little time before I could wake the ostler.

_Q._ You left the candles in the passage with Mr. Marsh?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ You handed the candles to him, and went immediately to call the ostler?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ It was not till after you returned, having been absent some little time that he rung the bell and ordered pen, ink, and paper.

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ That order was given in the parlour, not in the passage?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Did you see him write upon the paper?

_A._ Yes, I did.

_Q._ You are a hatter?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ There is a hatter's club at Dover, is there not?

_A._ Not that I know of.

_Q._ Were you up at this time when this transaction took place, or did you get up for the purpose?

_A._ I was up at the time.

_Q._ Had you any particular meeting on that day?

_A._ No, nothing particular, only I was smoking a pipe with Mr. Marsh.

_Q._ At one o'clock?

_A._ Yes, a little after one, it was between one and two o'clock I stopped there after two o'clock, I stopped some considerable time after the gentleman was gone away.

_Q._ He was not there above a quarter of an hour, or twenty minutes, was he?

_A._ I cannot tell, it might be a quarter of an hour or it might not.

_Q._ He was in a great hurry to get off, and went off as soon as the horses were ready?

_A._ He did.

_Q._ Had you dined at the Packet Boat, or at the Ship on that day?

_A._ No, I had not.

_Q._ Have you seen that gentleman from that time till to-day?

_A._ No, not from the time I saw him at Dover till to-day.

_Q._ Have you not been at London to be examined?

_A._ No.

_Q._ You have heard a great deal about this transaction?

_A._ Yes, it has been in every body's mouth.

_Q._ I take for granted you talk about these things as we do in London?

_A._ Yes we do.

_Q._ And read the newspapers that have been full of this thing for a long time?

_A._ I frequently read the newspapers.

_Re-examined by Mr. Bolland._

_Q._ How long had you an opportunity of observing him?

_A._ Perhaps I might be in the room three or four minutes.

_Q._ During that time, was your attention called to him?

_A._ Yes, on account of the glorious news he said he had brought.

_Q._ It was a welcome face at Dover?

_A._ Yes, it was indeed, and that made me take more notice than I should have done.

_A Juryman._ Had he a cap on all the time you saw him?

_A._ No, he had not.

_Mr. Park._ It was only three or four minutes altogether?

_A._ I beg your pardon; I did not say it was only three or four minutes, I was asked whether it was three or four minutes, and I said I had no doubt it was.

_A Juryman._ Are you sure that is the man?

_A._ That is the gentleman that I saw there.

_Lord Ellenborough._ You have no doubt whatever?

_A._ No, I have none in the least.

_Eliott Edis sworn._

_Examined by Mr. Bolland._

_Q._ You are a cooper in the victualling yard at Dover, are you not?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Were you, on the morning of the 21st of February, at the Packet Boat?

_A._ Yes, I was.

_Q._ Was Mr. Gourley there with you?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Was your attention called to any thing particular on that morning?

_A._ Yes, a messenger arrived.

_Q._ Did you see the messenger?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Where did you first see him?

_A._ At the Ship.

_Q._ Was he in a room, or in the passage of the Ship, at the time?

_A._ In a room.

_Q._ At the time you first saw him, how was he occupied, what was he doing?

_A._ He was walking up and down the room.

_Q._ Did you make any observation on his dress?

_A._ He had a grey coat--his great coat.

_Q._ Did you observe the other coat that he had on?

_A._ He had regimentals; scarlet, trimmed with gold.

_Q._ Had they any other ornament on them?

_A._ I did not particularly take notice.

_Q._ Do you recollect how his head was dressed?

_A._ A cap, with a gold band about it.

_Q._ Will you look at that coat which lies there?

_A._ That is the color of it.

_Q._ How was the cap made?

_A._ A slouch cap.

_Q._ Where was the band?

_A._ Round it.

_Q._ Of what did the cap appear to be made?

_A._ It appeared to be made of a kind of rough beaver; I do not know whether it was black or brown.

_Q._ It had the appearance of rough beaver?

_A._ Yes.

_Mr. Bolland._ Will you now shew him the cap?

_Mr. Park._ I think it should be more described before it is shewn to him; this is a totally different description; this may be very material.

_Mr. Bolland._ Then I will not shew him the cap at all.--Had the cap any flap to it?

_A._ Rather a flap round, as I thought--all round.

_Q._ I ask you, whether the cap was cut off without any rim to it, or had it a rim like a hat?

_A._ No, it had not a rim like a hat by any means.

_Q._ Had you any conversation with him?

_A._ No.

_Q._ You say that at first he was walking about the room?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Did he employ himself in any other way while you were there?

_A._ I saw him before I went away sit down to write.

_Q._ Did you hear him order a pen, ink, and paper?

_A._ No, I did not.

_Q._ Did he, in your presence, say any thing as to whom he was writing to?

_A._ No, I could hear him talk, but not to understand him.

_Q._ That was owing to your deafness?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Did he keep his cap on the whole time you were there, or did he take it off?

_A._ His cap was on while I was there.

_Q._ From the observation you made upon his person, can you point out who that person was whom you saw on that night; have you seen him? look round and see whether you see him here to-day.

(_The witness looked round the Court for some time._)

_A._ That is the gentleman (_pointing to De Berenger_.)

_Q._ Have you any doubt upon your mind about it.

_A._ No.

_Cross-examined by Mr. Park._

_Q._ Had you ever seen him before that night?

_A._ No.

_Q._ Have you ever seen him since?

_A._ No.

_Q._ How long did you see him?

_A._ I did not minute the time.

_Q._ Upon the whole, how many minutes do you think you can now say you saw him that night?

_A._ I might see him perhaps five or six minutes, or more. I was in the room twice.

_Q._ Were you there before Mr. Gourley, or after him?

_A._ I was in the room with him.

_Q._ Did you go over before Mr. Gourley, or after him?

_A._ After him--I followed him.

_Q._ Immediately?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Did you come away as soon as he did, or did you remain there after him?

_A._ I did not take particular notice of that; the door was open, and we went in and out as we liked.

_Q._ Will you tell us whether the word you used before was, that he had a flat cap, or a flap cap--had it not a flap to it?

_A._ It was a cap rather slouched down, no brim to it.

_Q._ How could it slouch down, if it had no brim to it? I do not understand that; if it had merely a crown to it that would go round the head, it would not slouch down.

_A._ It was drawn over his forehead.

_Q._ The round part of it was drawn down over his forehead?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Where have you been all the time that gentleman has been speaking?

_A._ What gentleman?

_Q._ Were you out of Court?

_A._ No, I was not out of Court.

_Q._ You have been behind?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Have you been in view of his Lordship all the time?

_A._ No.

_Q._ When did you come into Court; did you come in when Mr. Gourley was examining, or when Marsh, the former witness, was examining?

_A._ No, I was out of Court at that time.

_Q._ Had you left the Ship Inn before this gentleman, as you say it was, had left the Ship Inn and gone back to the Packet Boat?

_A._ No, I saw him start off.

_Re-examined by Mr. Bolland._

_Q._ Did you come into Court before you were called?

_A._ No.

_Mr. Park._ No, I give that up.

_Lord Ellenborough._ A deaf man is rather an awkward man to be an eaves dropper.

_Mr. Park._ I could not put so silly a question as that.

_Lord Ellenborough._ He is the very last man that one should suspect; he could not hear if he was in Court.

_Mr. Park._ If he had been as deaf as deaf could be, if he had seen a person point at the Defendant, that would have been sufficient for his purpose.

_Lord Ellenborough._ But you saw how he searched round the Court before he found him.

_Mr. Park._ But when I have a case presented to me I must do my duty, however painful it may be.

_Lord Ellenborough._ Certainly, it is my wish you should.

_The Cap was shewn to the witness._

_Mr. Bolland._ Was the cap like that?

_A._ It was in the same form as that.

_Q._ Was the lace like that?

_A._ It was like that; I cannot say that was the cap.

_Mr. William St. John sworn._

_Examined by Mr. Bolland._

_Q._ Where do you reside?

_A._ In Little Brook street.

_Q._ Were you at the Ship Inn at Dover, on the morning of the 21st of February?

_A._ I was.

_Q._ You were there as a guest--as a traveller?

_A._ I was.

_Q._ Was your attention called to any thing on that morning?

_A._ Yes, it was.

_Q._ Were you up in the morning, or had you retired to rest?

_A._ I had retired to rest.

_Q._ State to the Court what it was which excited your attention.

_A._ I think at a quarter past one, or somewhere thereabouts, I heard a violent knocking at the gate or door, and a person calling out for a post-chaise and four immediately. I got up and dressed myself as quickly as possible, and went down stairs. I met Mr. Wright, the landlord, and asked him----

_Q._ Do not state any thing that passed between you and Wright, unless the stranger was there.

_A._ I went into the coffee-room, I think it is called.

_Q._ Did you observe any body there?

_A._ I saw a gentleman in a military uniform.

_Q._ Will you state, if you recollect it, what his dress was?

_A._ He wore a scarlet coat, with long skirts, buttoned across, with a red silk sash, grey pantaloons, and a grey military great coat, and a seal-skin cap, I think it was a seal-skin cap, on his head, of a fawn colour.

_Lord Ellenborough._ You did not touch it to feel it, did you?

_A._ No; it had a gold band round it.

_Mr. Bolland._ Had he any ornament on his uniform?

_A._ There were some ornaments but I do not know what they were, something of a star on his military dress.

_Q._ How was he engaged at the time you first saw him?

_A._ He was walking up and down the room in a very good pace.

_Q._ Did any thing pass between you and him?

_A._ I asked a question.

_Q._ What question did you ask him?

_A._ I asked him about the arrival of a messenger, and he said, he knew nothing at all about it.

_Q._ What were the terms in which you asked him?

_A._ I asked him if he knew any thing of the arrival of Mr. Johnson, who was the Messenger expected.--He said, he knew nothing at all about him, and begged I would leave him to himself, as he was extremely ill. On my leaving the room, he requested that I would send in paper and pen and ink. I immediately retired, and met the landlord, Mr. Wright, coming into the room, I believe with the paper, pens and ink.

_Q._ Did you return into the room?

_A._ In a few minutes, I believe a few seconds afterwards, I did.

_Q._ How was he then occupied?

_A._ He was writing.

_Q._ Did he say any thing of what he was writing?

_A._ No.

_Q._ Did you afterwards hear him say any thing, or see him do any thing with the paper upon which he was writing?

_A._ No, I did not.

_Q._ Did you hear him say any thing to Mr. Wright?

_A._ No, I did not,--not in the room.

_Q._ Did you continue in the room during the whole time he was writing, or leave it?

_A._ I left it immediately.

_Q._ Did you again see him, and where?

_A._ At the door in the street, stepping into the carriage.

_Q._ Did you hear him say any thing there, or see him do any thing?

_A._ I asked him what the news was,--he told me it was as good as I could possibly wish.

_Q._ Did any thing more pass between you and him?

_A._ Nothing more.

_Q._ Did you see what he did with the paper upon which he was writing?

_A._ No, I did not.

_Q._ Did you hear any thing pass between him and any other persons?

_A._ No, I did not.

_Q._ Did you leave the place or did he go away first?

_A._ He went away first.

_Q._ Did any thing pass from that stranger or to him respecting the letter.

_A._ No, not that I heard.

_Q._ From the observation that you made upon that person, could you point him out?

_A._ Certainly.

_Q._ Look round the Court, and see whether he is here?

_A._ The gentleman is below me, (_pointing to De Berenger_,) this Gentlemen, who is writing here.

_Q._ Have you any doubt of it?

_A._ Not in the least.

_Q._ Had you seen him before that day?

_A._ This is the third time I ever saw him.--I saw him by accident in Westminster Hall, passing through the Hall.

_Lord Ellenborough._ Did you recollect him when you saw him there?

_A._ Immediately.

_Mr. Bolland._ By what accident was it that you saw him there?

_A._ I went down there.

_Q._ And there by chance saw him?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Were you desired by any body to go down?

_A._ A friend of mine asked me to go down. The fact is we were going to Newgate; having heard that he was gone to Westminster Hall, I went down there.

_Q._ Was he walking about the Hall, or where was he when you saw him?

_A._ I first saw him in the court.

_Q._ Was he alone, or were there other persons about him?

_A._ There were many persons about him.

_Q._ You have no doubt of the person?

_A._ I have no doubt.

_Q._ You recollect nothing of any letter?

_A._ No, I do not.

_Cross examined by Mr. Richardson._

_Q._ You told my learned friend you had seen this person three times;--once at Dover, and to day, and another time; by accident that was so--was it?

_A._ It was.

_Q._ Did you go to Newgate by accident?

_A._ No, I did not, I went there accompanied by a friend to see him; it was mere by chance that I went down to Westminster Hall.

_Q._ Do you call that an accident in your vocabulary?

_A._ I had no intention of going there ten minutes before.

_Q._ You did not go with your friend for the purpose of looking at him?

_A._ I went alone, I went with a friend to Newgate.

_Q._ You did not go to Westminster Hall for the purpose of looking at him?

_A._ I did.

_Q._ Do you call that an accident?

_A._ No.

_Q._ Did you not follow him to Westminster Hall for the purpose of looking at him?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Who was the friend who went with you to Newgate?

_A._ Mr. Oakes of the Stock Exchange.

_Q._ That was the day you knew he was to come to Westminster Hall for the purpose of pleading to this indictment?

_A._ I did not know any such thing.

_Q._ Were not you so informed when you got to Newgate?

_A._ I was.

_Q._ And then you followed him to Westminster Hall, and saw him pleading to this indictment?

_A._ I saw him in Westminster Hall.

_Q._ Did you not hear the officer read the indictment to him?

_A._ I was not in the Court, I think I just had my head in the inside of the curtain.

_Q._ Did you not hear the officer read something to him, and ask him whether he was guilty or not guilty?

_A._ I heard the Officer read something.

_Q._ And ask De Berenger whether he was guilty or not?

_A._ I heard him ask some question, but not what it was.

_Q._ That person was standing up in Court, under the Officer?

_A._ He was.

_Q._ You were not resident at Dover, I think?

_A._ No, I was not.

_Q._ What is your business in London?

_A._ I have a situation in a public charity.

_Q._ What is that?

_A._ The Irish Charitable Society.

_Q._ Are you Secretary to that?

_A._ No, Accountant.

_Q._ Is that your only line of business?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Have you nothing to do with the Stock Exchange?

_A._ No.

_Q._ You never had?

_A._ I do not understand that question.

_Q._ Have you ever had any thing to do with the Stock Exchange?

_A._ I have had some transactions in the Stocks.

_Q._ Have you ever acted as a Broker?

_A._ No, never.

_Q._ Your transactions in the Stocks have been entirely on your own account?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Buying and selling Stock upon your own account?

_A._ The fact is, I held some Omnium.

_Q._ And sold it again?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ About what time?

_A._ I bought it before that time.

_Q._ When was it sold?

_A._ Some days after this transaction.

_Q._ You were in this room twice, I think you said?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ When you first went down, you did not find your company acceptable?

_A._ The gentleman begged I would leave him, and I did so.

_Q._ Upon your oath, how long were you in the room at that time?

_A._ Not more than a minute.

_Q._ It might be less; you went immediately on his requesting you?

_A._ Yes, as soon as possible.

_Q._ The second time, you stated to my learned friend, you left the room immediately after you went in,--how long were you then?

_A._ I suppose a minute; I went up to the table and back again.

_Q._ You did not see him do any thing, but write a letter?

_A._ No.

_Q._ Had he his great coat and cap on, all the time you were with him?

_A._ Yes, I did not see him without them.

_Q._ It was a slouch cap we have heard it described?

_A._ No, it was not; it was a cap without any leaf at all to it.

_Q._ Coming over the forehead?

_A._ No, it fitted the head tight, but had neither a leaf or any thing else to it.

_Q._ What might be your business at Dover at that time?

_A._ I went down for the purpose of getting information.

_Q._ Was that for the benefit of the Irish Charitable Society?

_A._ No, certainly not.

_Q._ If it is not impertinent, for whose benefit was it?

_A._ One purpose was to send information to a newspaper.

_Q._ Another purpose, to send information to whom?

_A._ If any thing happened, such as the arrival of the preliminaries of a treaty of peace, which was expected, I should have come to London immediately.

_Q._ You would have gone to the Stock Exchange with it?

_A._ No, I should not, I have no connexion with the Stock Exchange.

_Q._ Upon your oath, you would not have communicated it to the Stock Exchange?

_A._ I should not.

_Q._ It was by Mr. Oakes's desire, you say, that you went to Newgate,--was it by his desire you went to Dover?

_A._ It was not.

_Q._ Did he know of your going to Dover?

_A._ He did not.

_Q._ By whose desire did you go down?

_A._ By desire of a friend of a mine.

_Q._ Who was that person?

_A._ He was a friend of mine.

_Q._ What was his name?

_Lord Ellenborough._ There is no objection to your telling it.

_Mr. Richardson._ Have you any doubt of it in your memory?

_A._ No.

_Q._ At whose desire did you go down?

_A._ Mr. Farrell.

_Q._ Who is Mr. Farrell?

_A._ He is a Merchant.

_Q._ A Merchant in the City of London?

_A._ Yes he is.

_Q._ Has he any thing to do with the newspaper you have spoken of?

_A._ Yes he has, he is a proprietor of it.

_Q._ What is the name of it?

_A._ The Traveller.

_Q._ Where does Mr. Farrell live?

_A._ In Austin Friars.

_Q._ What day did you go to Dover?

_A._ I went on the Saturday.

_Q._ That was the very day before?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ For the purpose of getting any intelligence that might arrive and to communicate it immediately to Mr. Farrell?

_A._ Yes, or Mr. Quin, the other proprietor of the newspaper.

_Q._ You told me just now, your object was to get information, partly for the newspaper;--what was the other object?

_A._ I do not recollect having said partly.

_Q._ I am in the recollection of the gentlemen of the Jury, whether you did not say so.

_A Juryman._ You said one object was that.

_Mr. Richardson._ What other object had you?

_A._ That was the only distinct object I had.

_Q._ Then you meant that you had no other object but that?

_A._ If there had been a preliminary Treaty of Peace arrived, I should have returned to London, and of course I would have made what I possibly could of the little Omnium I held.

_Q._ That was the other object?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ All information of slighter importance you would have communicated to Mr. Farrell, who sent you; if it had been very important, you would have come to London and sold your omnium?

_A._ Certainly.

_Re-examined by Mr. Bolland._

_Q._ At the time you saw that person in Westminster Hall, I think you told me he was standing with a number of others?

_A._ He was.

_Q._ Did any person point out that person to you?

_A._ No.

_Q._ Was it from the recollection of your own mind, that you discovered him?

_A._ It was.

_Q._ Do you know a boy of the name of Ions?

_A._ No. I do not know him by name.

_William Ions was called into Court._

_Mr. Bolland (to St. John.)_ Do you know that boy?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ He is one of Wright's boys?

_A._ He is.

_Q._ Did you see him on that night.

_A._ I did.

_Q._ Upon what occasion?

_A._ He was sent as an express, there were two expresses that night, he went with one of them.

_Q._ To whom was that lad sent?

_A._ I think to the Port Admiral at Deal.

_Q._ Whose express was that?

_A._ It was an express I believe that Mr. Wright gave him from the gentleman who was there.

_Q._ Do you mean from that gentleman?

_A._ Yes.

_William Ions sworn._

_Examined by Mr. Gurney._

_Q._ In the month of February last were you in the service of Mr. Wright of Dover.

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Were you up when the officer arrived there, or were you called up?

_A._ I was called up.

_Q._ Were you sent off with an express to Admiral Foley?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Did you take to the Admiral's the letter you received there?

_A._ Yes, I did.