Part 8

But (sayes _Carneades_) I have some Suspitions concerning this strange Relation, which make me unwilling to Declare an Opinion of it, unless I were satisfied concerning divers Material Circumstances that our Author has left unmentioned; though as for the Generation of Living Creatures, both Vegetable and Sensitive, it needs not seem Incredible, since we finde that our common water (which indeed is often Impregnated with Variety of Seminal Principles and Rudiments) being long kept in a quiet place will putrifie and stink, and then perhaps too produce Moss and little Worms, or other Insects, according to the nature of the Seeds that were lurking in it. I must likewise desire you to take Notice, that as _Helmont_ gives us no Instance of the Production of Minerals out of Water, so the main Argument that he employ's to prove that they and other Bodies may be resolv'd into water, is drawn from the Operations of his _Alkahest_, and consequently cannot be satisfactorily Examin'd by You and Me.

Yet certainly (sayes _Eleutherius_) You cannot but have somewhat wonder'd as well as I, to observe how great a share of Water goes to the making up of Divers Bodies, whose Disguises promise nothing neere so much. The Distillation of Eeles, though it yielded me some Oyle, and Spirit, and Volatile Salt, besides the _Caput mortuum_, yet were all these so disproportionate to the Phlegm that came from them (and in which at first they boyl'd as in a Pot of Water) that they seem'd to have bin nothing but coagulated Phlegm, which does likewise strangely abound in Vipers, though they are esteem'd very hot in Operation, and will in a Convenient Aire survive some dayes the loss of their Heads and Hearts, so vigorous is their Vivacity. Mans Bloud it self as Spirituous, and as Elaborate a Liquor as 'tis reputed, does so abound in Phlegm, that, the other Day, Distilling some of it on purpose to try the Experiment (as I had formerly done in Deers Bloud) out of about seven Ounces and a half of pure Bloud we drew neere six Ounces of Phlegm, before any of the more operative Principles began to arise, and Invite us to change the Receiver. And to satisfie my self that some of these Animall Phlegms were void enough of Spirit to deserve that Name, I would not content my self to taste them only, but fruitlesly pour'd on them acid Liquors, to try if they contain'd any Volatile Salt or Spirit, which (had there been any there) would probably have discover'd it self by making an Ebullition with the affused Liquor. And now I mention Corrosive Spirits, I am minded to Informe you, That though they seem to be nothing else but Fluid Salts, yet they abound in Water, as you may Observe, if either you Entangle, and so Fix their Saline Part, by making them Corrode some idoneous Body, or else if you mortifie it with a contrary Salt; as I have very manifestly Observ'd in the making a Medecine somewhat like _Helmont's Balsamus Samech_, with Distill'd Vinager instead of Spirit of Wine, wherewith he prepares it: For you would scarce Beleeve (what I have lately Observ'd) that of that acid Spirit, the Salt of Tartar, from which it is Distill'd, will by mortifying and retaining the acid Salt turn into worthless Phlegm neere twenty times its weight, before it be so fully Impregnated as to rob no more Distill'd Vinager of its Salt. And though Spirit of Wine Exquisitely rectify'd seem of all Liquors to be the most free from Water, it being so Igneous that it will Flame all away without leaving the least Drop behinde it, yet even this Fiery Liquor is by _Helmont_ not improbably affirm'd, in case what he relates be True, to be Materially Water, under a Sulphureous Disguise: For, according to him, in the making that excellent Medecine, _Paracelsus_ his _Balsamus Samech_, (which is nothing but _Sal Tartari_ dulcify'd by Distilling from it Spirit of Wine till the Salt be sufficiently glutted with its Sulphur, and suffer [Errata: and till it suffer] the Liquor to be drawn off, as strong as it was pour'd on) when the Salt of Tartar from which it is Distill'd hath retain'd, or depriv'd it of the Sulphureous parts of the Spirit of Wine, the rest, which is incomparably the greater part of the Liquor, will remigrate into Phlegm. I added that Clause [_In case what he Relates be True_] because I have not as yet sufficiently try'd it my self. But not only something of Experiment keeps me from thinking it, as many Chymists do, absurd, (though I have, as well as they, in vain try'd it with ordinary Salt of Tartar;) but besides that _Helmont_ often Relates it, and draws Consequences from it; A Person noted for his Sobernesse and Skill in Spagyrical Preparations, having been askt by me, Whether the Experiment might not be made to succeed, if the Salt and Spirit were prepar'd according to a way suitable to my Principles, he affirm'd to me, that he had that way I propos'd made _Helmont's_ Experiment succeed very well, without adding any thing to the Salt and Spirit. But our way is neither short nor Easie.

I have indeed (sayes _Carneades_) sometimes wonder'd to see how much Phlegme may be obtain'd from Bodies by the Fire. But concerning that Phlegme I may anon have Occasion to note something, which I therefore shall not now anticipate. But to return to the Opinion of _Thales_, and of _Helmont_, I consider, that supposing the _Alkahest_ could reduce all Bodies into water, yet whether that water, because insipid, must be Elementary, may not groundlesly be doubted; For I remember the Candid and Eloquent _Petrus Laurembergius_ in his Notes upon _Sala's_ Aphorismes affirmes, that he saw an insipid _Menstruum_ that was a powerfull Dissolvent, and (if my Memory do not much mis-informe me) could dissolve Gold. And the water which may be Drawn from Quicksilver without Addition, though it be almost Tastless, You will I believe think of a differing Nature from simple Water, especially if you Digest in it Appropriated Mineralls. To which I shall add but this, that this Consideration may be further extended. For I see no Necessity to conceive that the Water mention'd in the Beginning of _Genesis_, as the Universal Matter, was simple and Elementary Water; since though we should Suppose it to have been an Agitated Congeries or Heap consisting of a great Variety of Seminal Principles and Rudiments, and of other Corpuscles fit to be subdu'd and Fashion'd by them, it might yet be a Body Fluid like Water, in case the Corpuscles it was made up of, were by their Creator made small enough, and put into such an actuall Motion as might make them Glide along one another. And as we now say, the Sea consists of Water, notwithstanding [Errata: (notwithstanding] the Saline, Terrestrial, and other Bodies mingl'd with it,) such a Liquor may well enough be called Water, because that was the greatest of the known Bodies whereunto it was like; Though, that a Body may be Fluid enough to appear a Liquor, and yet contain Corpuscles of a very differing Nature, You will easily believe, if You but expose a good Quantity of Vitriol in a strong Vessel to a Competent Fire. For although it contains both Aqueous, Earthy, Saline, Sulphureous, and Metalline Corpuscles, yet the whole Mass will at first be Fluid like water, and boyle like a seething pot.

I might easily (Continues _Carneades_) enlarge my self on such Considerations, if I were Now Oblig'd to give You my Judgment of the _Thalesian_, and _Helmontian_, _Hypothesis_. But Whether or no we conclude that all things were at first Generated of Water, I may Deduce from what I have try'd Concerning the Growth of Vegetables, nourish'd with water, all that I now propos'd to my Self or need at present to prove, namely that Salt, Spirit, Earth, and ev'n Oyl (though that be thought of all Bodies the most opposite to Water) may be produc'd out of Water; and consequently that a Chymical Principle as well as a Peripatetick Element, may (in some cases) be Generated anew, or obtain'd from such a parcel of Matter as was not endow'd with the form of such a principle or Element before.

And having thus, _Eleutherius_, Evinc'd that 'tis possible that such Substances as those that Chymists are wont to call their _Tria Prima_, may be Generated, anew: I must next Endeavour to make it Probable, that the Operation of the Fire does Actually (sometimes) not only divide Compounded Bodies into smal Parts, but Compound those Parts after a new Manner; whence Consequently, for ought we Know, there may Emerge as well Saline and Sulphureous Substances, as Bodies of other Textures. And perhaps it will assist us in our Enquiry after the Effects of the Operations of the Fire upon other Bodies, to Consider a little, what it does to those Mixtures which being Productions of the Art of Man, We best know the Composition of. You may then be pleas'd to take Notice that though Sope is made up by the Sope-Boylers of Oyle or Grease, and Salt, and Water Diligently Incorporated together, yet if You expose the Mass they Constitute to a Graduall Fire in a Retort, You shall then indeed make a Separation, but not of the same Substances that were United into Sope, but of others of a Distant and yet not an Elementary Nature, and especially of an Oyle very sharp and Fætid, and of a very Differing Quality from that which was Employ'd to make the Sope: fo [Errata: so] if you Mingle in a due Proportion, _Sal Armoniack_ with Quick-Lime, and Distill them by Degrees of Fire, You shall not Divide the _Sal Armoniack_ from the Quick-Lime, though the one be a Volatile, and the other a Fix'd Substance, but that which will ascend will be a Spirit much more Fugitive, Penetrant, and stinking, then _Sal Armoniack_; and there will remain with the Quick-Lime all or very near all the Sea Salt that concurr'd to make up the _Sal Armoniack_; concerning which Sea Salt I shall, to satisfie You how well it was United to the Lime, informe You, that I have by making the Fire at length very Vehement, caus'd both the Ingredients to melt in the Retort it self into one Mass and such Masses are apt to Relent in the Moist Air. If it be here Objected, that these Instances are taken from factitious Concretes which are more Compounded then those which Nature produces; I shall reply, that besides that I have Mention'd them as much to Illustrate what I propos'd, as to prove it, it will be Difficult to Evince that Nature her self does not make Decompound Bodies, I mean mingle together such mixt Bodies as are already Compounded of Elementary, or rather of more simple ones. For Vitriol (for Instance) though I have sometimes taken it out of Minerall Earths, where Nature had without any assistance of Art prepar'd it to my Hand, is really, though Chymists are pleas'd to reckon it among Salts, a De-compounded Body Consisting (as I shall have occasion to declare anon) of a Terrestriall Substance, of a Metal, and also of at least one Saline Body, of a peculiar and not Elementary Nature. And we see also in Animals, that their blood may be compos'd of Divers very Differing Mixt Bodies, since we find it observ'd that divers Sea-Fowle tast rank of the Fish on which they ordinarily feed; and _Hipocrates_ himself Observes, that a Child may be purg'd by the Milke of the Nurse, if she have taken _Elaterium_; which argues that the purging Corpuscles of the Medicament Concurr to make up the Milke of the Nurse; and that white Liquor is generally by Physitians suppos'd to be but blanch'd and alter'd Blood. And I remember I have observ'd, not farr from the _Alps_, that at a certain time of the Year the Butter of that Country was very Offensive to strangers, by reason of the rank tast of a certain Herb, whereon the Cows were then wont plentifully to feed. But (proceeds _Carneades_) to give you Instances of another kind, to shew that things may be obtain'd by the Fire from a Mixt Body that were not Pre-existent in it, let Me Remind You, that from many Vegetables there may without any Addition be Obtain'd Glass, a Body, which I presume You will not say was Pre-existent in it, but produc'd by the Fire. To which I shall add but this one Example more, namely that by a certain Artificial way of handling Quicksilver, You may without Addition separate from it at least a 5th. or 4th. part of a clear Liquor, which with an Ordinary Peripatetick would pass for Water, and which a Vulgar Chymist would not scruple to call Phlegme, and which, for ought I have yet seen or heard, is not reducible into Mercury again, and Consequently is more then a Disguise of it. Now besides that divers Chymists will not allow Mercury to have any or at least any Considerable Quantity of either of the Ignoble Ingredients, Earth and Water; Besides this, I say, the great Ponderousness of Quicksilver makes it very unlikely that it can have so much Water in it as may be thus obtain'd from it, since Mercury weighs 12 or 14 times as much as water of the same Bulk. Nay for a further Confirmation of this Argument, I will add this Strange Relation, that two Friends of mine, the one a Physitian, and the other a Mathematician, and both of them Persons of unsuspected Credit, have Solemnly assured me, that after many Tryals they made, to reduce Mercury into Water, in Order to a Philosophicall Work, upon Gold (which yet, by the way, I know prov'd Unsuccesfull) they did once by divers Cohobations reduce a pound of Quicksilver into almost a pound of Water, and this without the Addition of any other Substance, but only by pressing the Mercury by a Skillfully Manag'd Fire in purposely contriv'd Vessels. But of these Experiments our Friend (sayes _Carneades_, pointing at the Register of this Dialogue) will perhaps give You a more Particular Account then it is necessary for me to do: Since what I have now said may sufficiently evince, that the Fire may sometimes as well alter Bodies as divide them, and by it we may obtain from a Mixt Body what was not Pre-existent in it. And how are we sure that in no other Body what we call Phlegme is barely separated, not Produc'd by the Action of the Fire: Since so many other Mixt Bodies are of a much less Constant, and more alterable Nature, then Mercury, by many Tricks it is wont to put upon Chymists, and by the Experiments I told You of, about an hour since, Appears to be. But because I shall ere long have Occasion to resume into Consideration the Power of the Fire to produce new Concretes, I shall no longer insist on this Argument at present; only I must mind You, that if You will not dis-believe _Helmonts_ Relations, You must confess that the _Tria Prima_ are neither ingenerable nor incorruptible Substances; since by his _Alkahest_ some of them may be produc'd of Bodies that were before of another Denomination; and by the same powerfull _Menstruum_ all of them may be reduc'd into insipid Water.

Here _Carneades_ was about to pass on to his Third Consideration, when _Eleutherius_ being desirous to hear what he could say to clear his second General Consideration from being repugnant to what he seem'd to think the true Theory of Mistion, prevented him by telling him, I somewhat wonder, _Carneades_, that You, who are in so many Points unsatisfied with the Peripatetick Opinion touching the Elements and Mixt Bodies, should also seem averse to that Notion touching the manner of Mistion, wherein the Chymists (though perhaps without knowing that they do so) agree with most of the Antient Philosophers that preceded _Aristotle_, and that for Reasons so considerable, that divers Modern Naturalists and Physitians, in other things unfavourable enough to the Spagyrists, do in this case side with them against the common Opinion of the Schools. If you should ask me (continues _Eleutherius_) what Reasons I mean? I should partly by the Writings of _Sennertus_ and other learned Men, and partly by my own Thoughts, be supply'd with more, then 'twere at present proper for me to Insist largely on. And therefore I shall mention only, and that briefly, three or four. Of these, I shall take the First from the state of the Controversie itself, and the genuine Notion of Mistion, which though much intricated by the Schoolmen, I take in short to be this, _Aristotle_, at least as many of his Interpreters expound him, and as indeed he Teaches in some places, where he professedly Dissents from the Antients, declares Mistion to be such a mutual Penetration, and perfect Union of the mingl'd Elements, that there is no Portion of the mixt Body, how Minute soever, which does not contain All, and Every of the Four Elements, or in which, if you please, all the Elements are not. And I remember, that he reprehends the Mistion taught by the Ancients, as too sleight or gross, for this Reason, that Bodies mixt according to their _Hypothesis_, though they appear so to humane Eyes, would not appear such to the acute Eyes of a _Lynx_, whose perfecter Sight would discerne the Elements, if they were no otherwise mingled, than as his Predecessors would have it, to be but Blended, not United; whereas the Antients, though they did not all Agree about what kind of Bodies were Mixt, yet they did almost unanimously hold, that in a compounded Bodie, though the _Miscibilia_, whether Elements, Principles, or whatever they pleas'd to call them, were associated in such small Parts, and with so much Exactness, that there was no sensible Part of the Mass but seem'd to be of the same Nature with the rest, and with the whole; Yet as to the Atomes, or other Insensible Parcels of Matter, whereof each of the _Miscibilia_ consisted, they retain'd each of them its own Nature, being but by Apposition or _Juxta_-Position united with the rest into one Bodie. So that although by virtue of this composition the mixt Body did perhaps obtain Divers new Qualities, yet still the Ingredients that Compounded it, retaining their own Nature, were by the Destruction of the _Compositum_ separable from each other, the minute Parts disingag'd from those of a differing Nature, and associated with those of their own sort returning to be again, Fire, Earth, or Water, as they were before they chanc'd to be Ingredients of that _Compositum_. This may be explain'd (Continues _Eleutherius_,) by a piece of Cloath made of white and black threds interwoven, wherein though the whole piece appear neither white nor black, but of a resulting Colour, that is gray, yet each of the white and black threds that compose it, remains what it was before, as would appear if the threds were pull'd asunder, and sorted each Colour by it self. This (pursues _Eleutherius_) being, as I understand it, the State of the Controversie, and the _Aristotelians_ after their Master Commonly Defining, that Mistion is _Miscibilium alteratorum Unio_, that seems to comport much better with the Opinion of the Chymists, then with that of their Adversaries, since according to that as the newly mention'd Example declares, there is but a _Juxta_-position of separable Corpuscles, retaining each its own Nature, whereas according to the _Aristotelians_, when what they are pleas'd to call a mixt Body results from the Concourse of the Elements, the _Miscibilia_ cannot so properly be said to be Alter'd, as Destroy'd, since there is no Part in the mixt Body, how small soever, that can be call'd either Fir [Transcriber's Note: Fire], or Air, or Water, or Earth.

Nor indeed can I well understand, how Bodies can be mingl'd other wayes then as I have declar'd, or at least how they can be mingl'd, as our Peripateticks would have it. For whereas _Aristotle_ tells us, that if a Drop of Wine be put into ten thousand Measures of Water, the Wine being Overpower'd by so Vast a Quantity of Water will be turn'd into it, he speaks to my Apprehension, very improbably; For though One should add to that Quantity of Water as many Drops of Wine as would a Thousand times exceed it all, yet by his Rule the whole Liquor should not be a _Crama_, a Mixture of Wine and Water, wherein the Wine would be Predominant, but Water only; Since the Wine being added but by a Drop at a time would still Fall into nothing but Water, and Consequently would be turn'd into it. And if this would hold in Metals too, 'twere a rare secret for Goldsmiths, and Refiners; For by melting a Mass of Gold, or Silver, and by but casting into it Lead or Antimony, Grain after Grain, they might at pleasure, within a reasonable Compass of time, turn what Quantity they desire, of the Ignoble into the Noble Metalls. And indeed since a Pint of wine, and a pint of water, amount to about a Quart of Liquor, it seems manifest to sense, that these Bodies doe not Totally Penetrate one another, as one would have it; but that each retains its own Dimensions; and Consequently, that they are by being Mingl'd only divided into minute Bodies, that do but touch one another with their Surfaces, as do the Grains, of Wheat, Rye, Barley, &c. in a heap of severall sorts of Corn: And unless we say, that as when one measure of wheat, for Instance, is Blended with a hundred measures of Barley, there happens only a _Juxta_-position and Superficial Contact betwixt the Grains of wheat, and as many or thereabouts of the Grains of Barley. So when a Drop of wine is mingl'd with a great deal of water, there is but an Apposition of so many Vinous Corpuscles to a Correspondent Number of Aqueous ones; Unless I say this be said, I see not how that Absurdity will be avoyded, whereunto the Stoical Notion of mistion (namely by [Greek: synchysis] [Errata: [Greek: Synchysis]], or Confusion) was Liable, according to which the least Body may be co-extended with the greatest: Since in a mixt Body wherein before the Elements were Mingl'd there was, for Instance, but one pound of water to ten thousand of Earth, yet according to them there must not be the least part of that Compound, that Consisted not as well of Earth, as water. But I insist, Perhaps, too long (sayes _Eleutherius_) upon the proofs afforded me by the Nature of Mistion: Wherefore I will but name Two or Three other Arguments; whereof the first shall be, that according to _Aristotle_ himself, the motion of a mixt Body followes the Nature of the Predominant Element, as those wherein the Earth prevails, tend towards the Centre of heavy Bodies. And since many things make it Evident, that in divers Mixt Bodies the Elementary Qualities are as well Active, though not altogether so much so as in the Elements themselves, it seems not reasonable to deny the actual Existence of the Elements in those Bodies wherein they Operate.

To which I shall add this Convincing Argument, that Experience manifests, and _Aristotle_ Confesses it, that the _Miscibilia_ may be again separated from a mixt Body, as is Obvious in the Chymical Resolutions of Plants and Animalls, which could not be unless they did actually retain their formes in it: For since, according to _Aristotle_, and I think according to truth, there is but one common Mass of all things, which he has been pleas'd to call _Materia Prima_; And since tis not therefore the Matter but the Forme that Constitutes and Discriminates Things, to say that the Elements remain not in a Mixt Body, according to their Formes, but according to their Matter, is not to say that they remain there at all; Since although those Portions of Matter were Earth and water, &c. before they concurr'd, yet the resulting Body being once Constituted, may as well be said to be simple as any of the Elements, the Matter being confessedly of the same Nature in all Bodies, and the Elementary Formes being according to this _Hypothesis_ perish'd and abolish'd.