Part 31

_Knox._ I looked, my Lord, to have audience, until I had absolved the other two parts; but seeing that it pleases your Lordship to cut me off before the midst, I will answer your question. The Scripture of God teaches me that Jerusalem and Judah were punished for the sin of Manasseh; and if ye will allege that they were punished because they were wicked, and offended with their king, and not because their king was wicked, I answer that, albeit the Spirit of God makes for me, saying in express words, "For the sin of Manasseh," yet will I not be so obstinate as to lay the whole sin, and the plagues that followed, upon the king, and utterly absolve the people. I will grant you that the whole people offended with the king: but how, and in what fashion, I fear that ye and I shall not agree. I doubt not but that the great multitude accompanied him in all the abominations which he did; for idolatry and a false religion have ever been, are, and will be pleasing to the most part of men. To affirm that all Judah committed really the acts of his impiety, is but to affirm that which neither has certainty, nor yet appearance of truth. Who can think it possible that all those of Jerusalem should so shortly turn to external idolatry, considering the notable reformation in the days of Hezekiah, a short time before? But yet, the text says, "Manasseh made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to err." True it is; for the one part willingly followed him in his idolatry, and the other, by reason of his authority, suffered him to defile Jerusalem, and the temple of God, with all abominations. So were they all criminal for his sin; the one by act and deed, the other by suffering and permission. Even so, all Scotland is guilty this day of the Queen's idolatry, and ye, my Lords, especially, above all others.

_Lethington._ Well, that is the chief head wherein we never agreed; but of that we shall speak hereafter. What will ye say as touching the moving of the people to have a good opinion of the Queen's Majesty, and as concerning obedience to be given to her authority, as also of the form of the prayer which commonly ye use, and so on?

_Knox._ My Lord, a good conscience will not suffer me to move the people more earnestly, or to pray otherwise than heretofore I have done. He who knows the secrets of hearts knows that, privately and publicly, I have called to God for the Queen's conversion, and have willed the people to do the same, showing them the dangerous estate wherein not only she herself stands, but also the whole realm, by the reason of her indurate blindness.

_Lethington._ That is exactly wherein we find greatest fault. Your extremity against the Queen's Mass, in particular, passes measure. Ye call her a slave to Satan; ye affirm that God's vengeance hangs over the realm by reason of her impiety; and what is this else but to rouse up the heart of the people against Her Majesty, and against them that serve her?

There was heard an exclamation from the rest of the flatterers that such extremity could not profit. The Master of Maxwell said in plain words, "If I were in the Queen's Majesty's place, I would not suffer such things as I hear."

_Knox._ If the words of preachers shall always be wrested to the worst construction, then will it be hard to speak of anything so circumspectly (provided that the truth be spoken) that it shall not escape the censure of the calumniator. The most vehement, and, as ye put it, excessive manner of prayer that I use in public is this, "O Lord, if it be Thy pleasure, purge the heart of the Queen's Majesty from the venom of idolatry, and deliver her from the bondage and thraldom of Satan in which she has been brought up, and yet remains, for the lack of true doctrine; and let her see, by the illumination of Thy Holy Spirit, that there is no means to please Thee but by Jesus Christ, Thy only Son, and that Jesus Christ cannot be found but in Thy holy Word, nor yet received but as it prescribes; which is, to renounce our own wisdom and preconceived opinion, and worship Thee as Thou commandest; that in so doing she may avoid that eternal damnation which abides all who are obstinate and impenitent unto the end; and that this poor realm may also escape that plague and vengeance which inevitably follow idolatry, maintained against Thy manifest Word and the open light thereof." This, said he, is the form of my common prayer, as yourselves can witness. Now, I would hear what is worthy of reprehension in it.

_Lethington._ There are three things that I never liked. The first is that ye pray for the Queen's Majesty with a condition, saying, "Illuminate her heart, if it be Thy good pleasure." It may appear from these words that ye doubt of her conversion. Where have ye the example of such prayer?

_Knox._ Wheresoever the examples are, I am assured of the rule, which is this, If we shall ask anything according to His will, He shall hear us; and our Master, Christ Jesus, commanded us to pray unto our Father, "Thy will be done."

_Lethington._ But where do ye ever find one of the Prophets so to have prayed?

_Knox._ It sufficeth me, my Lord, that the Master and Teacher of both Prophets and Apostles has taught me so to pray.

_Lethington._ But, in so doing, ye put a doubt in the people's head concerning her conversion.

_Knox._ Not I, my Lord. Her own obstinate rebellion causes more than me to doubt of her conversion.

_Lethington._ Wherein rebels she against God?

_Knox._ In all the actions of her life, but in these two heads especially; firstly, she will not hear the preaching of the blessed Evangel of Jesus Christ; and, secondly, she maintains that idol, the Mass.

_Lethington._ She does not think that rebellion, but good religion.

_Knox._ So thought they that at one time offered their children to Moloch; and yet the Spirit of God affirms that they offered them unto devils, and not unto God. This day the Turks think they have a better religion than that of the Papists. I think ye will excuse neither of them from committing rebellion against God: nor can ye justly excuse the Queen, unless ye make God to be partial.

_Lethington._ But yet, why pray ye not for her, without moving any doubt?

_Knox._ Because I have learned to pray in faith. Now faith, ye know, depends upon the words of God, and the Word teaches me that prayers profit the sons and daughters of God's election. Whether she be one of these or not, I have just cause to doubt; and, therefore, I pray God "illuminate her heart," if it be His good pleasure.

_Lethington._ But yet ye can produce the example of none that so has prayed before you.

_Knox._ I have already answered that; but yet, for further declaration, I will demand a question. Do ye think that the Apostles prayed themselves as they commanded others to pray?

"Who doubts of that?" said the whole company that were present.

_Knox._ Well then, I am assured that Peter said these words to Simon Magus, "Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray to God, that, if it be possible, the thought of your heart may be forgiven thee." Here we may plainly see that Peter joins a condition with his commandment that Simon should repent and pray, to wit, if it were possible that his sin might be forgiven; for he was not ignorant that some sins were unto the death, and so without all hope of repentance or remission. Think ye not, my Lord Secretary, there may touch my heart, concerning the Queen's conversion, the same doubt that then touched the heart of the Apostle?

_Lethington._ I would never hear you or any other call that in doubt.

_Knox._ But your will is no assurance to my conscience. And, to speak freely, my Lord, I wonder if ye yourself doubt not of the Queen's conversion; for more evident signs of induration[235] have appeared, and still do appear in her, than outwardly Peter could have espied in Simon Magus. Albeit at one time he had been a sorcerer, he joined with the Apostles, believed, and was baptized; and albeit the venom of avarice remained in his heart, and he would have bought the Holy Ghost, yet, when he heard the fearful threatenings of God pronounced against him, he trembled, desired the assistance of the prayers of the Apostles, and humbled himself like a true penitent, so far as the judgment of man could pierce, and yet we see that Peter doubted of his conversion. Why then may not all the godly justly doubt of the conversion of the Queen, who has practised idolatry (which is no less odious in the sight of God than is the other) and still continues in the same, yea, who despises all threatenings, and refuses all godly admonitions?

[235] Hardening.

_Lethington._ Why say ye that she refuses admonition? She will gladly hear any man.

_Knox._ But what obedience, to God or to His Word, ensues of all that is spoken to her? Or when shall she be seen to give her presence to the public preaching?

_Lethington._ I think never, so long as she is thus treated.

_Knox._ And so long ye and all others must be content that I pray, so that I may be assured of being heard by my God, that His good will may be done, either in making her comfortable to His Kirk, or, if He has appointed her to be a scourge to it, that we may have patience, and she may be bridled.

_Lethington._ Well let us come to the second head. Where find ye that the Scripture calls any the bond slaves to Satan? or that the Prophets of God speak so irreverently of kings and princes?

_Knox._ The Scripture says, that "by nature we are all the sons of wrath." Our Master, Christ Jesus, affirms, that "such as do sin are servants to sin," and that it is the only Son of God that sets men at freedom. Now, what difference there is betwixt the sons of wrath, and the servants of sin, and the slaves to the Devil, I understand not, except I be taught. If the sharpness of the term offend you, I have not invented that phrase of speech, but have learned it out of God's Scripture; for those words I find spoken unto Paul, "Behold, I send thee to the Gentiles, to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God." Mark these words, my Lord, and sturr not at the speaking of the Holy Ghost. The same Apostle, writing to his scholar Timothy, says, "Instruct with meekness those that are contrary minded, if God at any time will give them repentance, that they may know the truth, and that they may come to amendment, out of the snare of the Devil, which are taken of him at his will." If your Lordship rightly considers these sentences, ye shall not only find my words to be the words of the Holy Ghost, but also that the condition which I use to add, has the assurance of God's Scriptures.

_Lethington._ But they spake nothing against kings in especial, and yet your continual crying is, "The Queen's idolatry, the Queen's Mass, will provoke God's vengeance!"

_Knox._ In the former sentences I hear not kings and queens excepted, but all unfaithful are pronounced to stand in one rank, and to be in bondage to one tyrant, the Devil. But belike, my Lord, ye little regard the estate wherein they stand, when ye would have them so flattered, that the danger thereof should neither be known nor declared to the poor people.

_Lethington._ Where will ye find that any of the Prophets did so entreat kings and queens, rulers or magistrates?

_Knox._ In more places than one. Ahab was a king, and Jezebel was a queen, and yet of what the Prophet Elijah said to the one and to the other, I suppose ye are not ignorant?

_Lethington._ That was not cried out before the people to make them odious to their subjects.

_Knox._ That Elijah said, "Dogs shall lick the blood of Ahab, and eat the flesh of Jezebel," the Scriptures assure me; but I read not that it was whispered in their own ear, or in a corner. The plain contrary appears to me. That is, both the people and the Court understood well enough what the Prophet had promised; for so witnessed Jehu, after God's vengeance had stricken Jezebel.

_Lethington._ They were singular motions of the Spirit of God, and appertain nothing to this our age.

_Knox._ Then the Scripture has far deceived me, for St. Paul teaches me that, "Whatsoever is written within the Holy Scriptures, is written for our instruction." And my Master said that "Every learned and wise scribe brings forth his treasure, both things old and things new." And the Prophet Jeremiah affirms that "Every realm and every city that likewise offends, as then did Jerusalem, should likewise be punished." Why then, I neither see nor yet can understand that the acts of the ancient Prophets, and the fearful judgments of God executed before us upon the disobedient, appertain not unto this our age. But now, to put an end to this head, my Lord, the Prophets of God have not spared to rebuke wicked kings, as well to their face as before the people and subjects. Elisha feared not to say to King Jehoram, "What have I to do with thee? Get thee to the prophets of thy father, and to the prophets of thy mother; for as the Lord of Hosts lives, in whose sight I stand, if it were not that I regard the presence of Jehoshaphat, the King of Judah, I would not have looked toward thee nor seen thee." It is plain that the Prophet was a subject in the kingdom of Israel, and yet how little reverence he gives to the King. Jeremiah the Prophet was commanded to cry to the King and to the Queen, and to say, "Behave yourselves lawfully; execute justice and judgment; or else your carcases shall be cast to the heat of the day, and unto the frost of the night." Unto Coniah, Shallum, and Zedekiah, he speaks in special, and shows to them, in his public sermons, their miserable ends; and therefore ye ought not to think it strange, my Lord, that the servants of God mark the vice of kings and queens, as well as of other offenders, and that because their sins are more noisome to the commonwealth than are the sins of inferior persons.

For the most part of this reasoning, Secretary Lethington leaned upon the Master of Maxwell's breast, who said, "I am almost weary: I would that some other would reason in the chief head, which is not touched."

The Earl of Morton, Chancellor, commanded Mr. George Hay to reason against John Knox, in the head of obedience due unto magistrates; and he began so to do.

_Knox._ Brother, I am well content that ye reason with me, because I know you to be both a man of learning and of modesty: but that ye shall oppose yourself to a truth of which, I suppose, your own conscience is no less persuaded than is mine, I cannot well approve. I would be sorry that you and I should be reputed to reason as two scholars of Pythagoras, to show the quickness of our imagination. I protest here, before God, that, whatsoever I sustain, I do the same of conscience; yea, I dare no more sustain a proposition known unto myself untrue, than dare I teach false doctrine in the public place. Therefore, Brother, if conscience move you to oppose yourself to that doctrine which ye have heard from my mouth in that matter, do it boldly: it shall never offend me. But it pleases me not that ye be found to oppose yourself to me, if ye are persuaded in the same truth. In that there may be greater inconvenience than either ye or I do consider for the present.

_Hay._ Far be it from me to prove myself willing to impugn or confute that head of doctrine, which not only ye, but many others, yea, and I myself have affirmed; for so should I be found contrarious to myself. My Lord Secretary knows my judgment in that head.

_Lethington._ Marry; ye are well the worse of the two. I remember well your reasoning when the Queen was in Carrick.

_Knox._ Well, seeing, Brother, that God has made you occupy the chair of truth, in which, I am sure, we will agree in all principal heads of doctrine, let it never be said that we disagree in disputation.

John Knox was moved thus to speak, because he understood more of the craft than the other did.

_Lethington._ Well, I am persuaded in this last head somewhat better than I was in the other two. Mr. Knox, yesterday we heard your judgment upon the 13th to the Romans; we heard the mind of the Apostle well opened; we heard the causes why God has established powers upon the earth; we heard the necessity that mankind has of the same; and we heard the duty of magistrates sufficiently declared; but in two things I was offended, and so I think were some more of my Lords that were then present. The one was that ye made difference betwixt the ordinance of God and the persons that were placed in authority; and ye affirmed that men might refuse the persons, and yet not offend against God's ordinance. This is the one; the other ye had no time to explain; but methought ye meant this,--that subjects were not bound to obey their princes if they commanded unlawful things; but that they might resist their princes, and were never bound to suffer.

_Knox._ In very deed ye have rightly both marked my words, and understood my mind; for I have long been of that same judgment, and so I yet remain.

_Lethington._ How will ye prove your division and difference, and that the person placed in authority may be resisted, and God's ordinance not transgressed, seeing that the Apostle says, "He that resists the powers, resisteth the ordinance of God."

_Knox._ My Lord, the plain words of the Apostle make the difference, and the acts of many approved by God prove my affirmative. First, the Apostle affirms that the powers are ordained of God for the preservation of quiet and peaceable men, and for the punishment of malefactors. From this it is plain that the ordinance of God and the power given unto men is one thing, and the person clad with the power or with the authority is another. God's ordinance is the conservation of mankind, the punishment of vice, and the maintaining of virtue, which is in itself holy, just, constant, stable, and perpetual. But men clad with the authority are commonly profane and unjust; yea, they are mutable and transitory, and subject to corruption. God threateneth them by His Prophet David, saying, "I have said ye are gods, and every one of you the sons of the Most Highest; but ye shall die as men, and the princes shall fall like others." Here I am assured that persons, the soul and body of wicked princes, are threatened with death: I think that ye will not affirm that so also are the authority, the ordinance and the power, wherewith God has endued such persons; for, as I have said, as it is holy, so is it the permanent will of God. Now, my Lord, it is evident that the prince may be resisted, and yet the ordinance of God not violated. The people resisted Saul, when he had sworn by the living God that Jonathan should die. The people, I say, swore to the contrary, and delivered Jonathan, so that not a hair of his head fell. Now, Saul was the anointed king, and they were his subjects, and yet they so resisted him that they made him no better than mansworn.[236]

[236] Perjured.

_Lethington._ I doubt if in so doing the people did well.

_Knox._ The Spirit of God accuses them not of any crime, but rather praises them, and condemns the king, as well for his foolish vow and law made without God, as for his cruel mind, that would have punished an innocent man so severely. I shall not stand entirely upon this: what follows shall confirm it. This same Saul commanded Abimelech and the priests of the Lord to be slain, because they had committed treason, as he alleged, for intercommuning with David. His guard and principal servants would not obey his unjust commandment; but Doeg, the flatterer, put the king's cruelty to execution. I will not ask your judgment whether the servants of the king, in not obeying his commandment, resisted God or not; or whether Doeg, in murdering the priests, gave obedience to a just authority. I have the Spirit of God, speaking by the mouth of David, to assure me of the one as well as of the other; for he, in his fifty-second Psalm, condemns that act as a most cruel murder; and affirms that God will punish not only the commander but the merciless executor. I conclude that they who gainstood his commandment resisted not the ordinance of God.

And now, my Lord, to answer to the statement of the Apostle, where he affirms that such as resist the power resist the ordinance of God, I say that the power in that place is not to be understood to be the unjust commandment of men, but the just power wherewith God has armed His magistrates and lieutenants to punish sin and maintain virtue. If any man enterprise to take from the hands of a lawful judge a murderer, an adulterer, or any other malefactor that by God's law deserves death, this same man resists God's ordinance, and procures to himself vengeance and condemnation, because he has stayed God's sword from striking. But this is not the case if men, in the fear of God, oppose themselves to the fury and blind rage of princes; in doing so, they do not resist God, but the Devil, who abuses the sword and authority of God.

_Lethington._ I sufficiently understand what ye mean; and to the one part I will not oppose myself. But I doubt of the other. If the Queen commanded me to slay John Knox, because she is offended at him, I would not obey her. But, were she to command others to do it, or by a colour of justice to take his life from him, I cannot tell if I should be found to defend him against the Queen and against her officers.

_Knox._ Under protestation that the audience think not that I seek favours for myself, my Lord, I say that, if ye be persuaded of my innocency, and if God has given you such power and credit as might deliver me, and yet you suffered me to perish, in so doing you should be criminal, and guilty of my blood.

_Lethington._ Prove that, and win the play.

_Knox._ Well, my Lord, remember your promise, and I shall be short in my probation. The Prophet Jeremiah was apprehended by the priests and prophets, who were a part of the authority within Jerusalem, and by the multitude of the people, and this sentence was pronounced against him, "Thou shalt die the death; for thou hast said, this house shall be like Shiloh, and this city shall be desolate without inhabitant." The princes, hearing the uproar, came from the king's house, and sat down in judgment in the entry of the new gate of the Lord's House, and there the priests and the prophets, before the princes, and before all the people, stated their accusation in these words, "This man is worthy to die, for he has prophesied against this city, as your ears have heard." Jeremiah answered that whatsoever he had spoken proceeded from God; and therefore said he, "As for me, I am in your hands: do with me as ye think good and right. But know ye for certain that, if ye put me to death, ye shall surely bring innocent blood upon your souls, and upon this city, and upon the habitations thereof; for of truth the Lord has sent me to you, to speak all these words." Now, my Lord, if the prophets and the whole people should have been guilty of the Prophet's blood, how shall ye or others be judged innocent before God, if ye suffer the blood of such as have not deserved death to be shed when ye may save it?

_Lethington._ The cases are nothing like.

_Knox._ I would like to learn wherein the dissimilitude stands.

_Lethington._ First, the king had not condemned him to death. And next, the false prophets and the priests and the people accused him without a cause, and therefore they could not but be guilty of his blood.