Part 97
A. No, sir; I would not give it without the mayor's order. He was completely bewildered after this blow breaking his jaw. He was struck three or four other times, and just as soon as he could, got out of the crowd. I ran to give the signal, but I wanted my pistols first. I thought we were going to fight, and I wanted to be armed. Before I could get near the church to give the signal, the firing took place, and the whole thing was over. They ordered the men to fall in on Washington avenue, and they all fell right in without any excitement, just like old veterans, and we went straight to the company's store, and by the time we got to the company's store, a great many citizens were there to support us. I had no idea they were whipped. I supposed they would merely go around through the yard and attack us again. We went to the company's store to prepare to meet them.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Who was given command of this posse?
A. There was no officer in command. W. W. Scranton had brought them out. They had gone there and got their guns, and W. W. Scranton had as much command as any one. I had command as soon as I got with them.
Q. Were your men sworn in as special policemen?
A. These also had written authority from the mayor.
Q. You said that the intention of your posse was to protect the property of private citizens. Did you intend to leave the property of corporations at the mercy of the mob?
A. No, sir; that is, we intended to protect common property which would damage the city if it were destroyed. We did not want to be sworn in. We would be sworn in, but we wished to be placed in such a position that we would not be forced to go over to breakers or outlying property in any direction to protect it, but property here in the city, for instance, the company's store we would protect. We did not wish to be mixed in any such way that we would have to take sides as between strikers and the man that wanted to work. It was not our business, we were not serving for pay, we were only serving for our own protection.
Q. I understood that was the case, but the language might be construed otherwise?
A. We could not draw the line between private property and corporation property.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You better explain more fully the object of the organization?
A. The object of the organization--we understood the cry had been raised all through in all directions among--I can't say whether there were miners or laborers, but among the worthless set of men who were in one thing or another, and hardly ever did a stroke of honest work, that they were going to gut Lackawanna avenue, that was the cry, and we organized to prevent any such thing as that taking place. We wished distinctly, and had it understood as distinctly, that the quarrels of men with their employers were nothing to us. We did not wish to side with the companies or men.
Q. The question of wages between the men and the company?
A. That was not for us to decide.
Q. You organized for protection?
A. Merely for protection of the property of the city. We had up to the time of the riot the best wishes of a large portion of the laboring class.
Q. How was it after the riot?
A. Then came a question of order. Three men were killed--whether in killing these three men we were justifiable, and under the excitement, a great many would privately tell us they thought we were justifiable, at the same time to hear them talk in a crowd, you would think they were not.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You were tried, and the court sustained you?
A. Sustained us.
Q. How many were arrested of the posse and tried?
A. We were all tried--no we were not all tried. There were two indictments brought, one was for murder, and one was for manslaughter. Those they supposed had done the shooting were tried for murder and acquitted, and those that were under indictment for manslaughter--the whole thing was _nolle prossed_. The same evidence that failed to convict the men of murder would have to be used on the trial for manslaughter.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Where were you tried?
A. Wilkes-Barre.
Q. Before what judge?
A. Harding. I was not tried; I was indicted for manslaughter only, because at the time the firing took place I had no weapons about me.
Q. All that were tried were acquitted?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was the case ever submitted to a jury?
A. Yes; the murder case was submitted to a jury.
Q. Under the instruction of the court?
A. Yes. It was so plain a case, we had so many men hurt, and we could prove so many stones thrown and pistol shots fired at us. We had four men altogether, wounded--one man shot in the leg, one man a pistol ball took him right across the fingers--it made no wound to speak of, still the intention was to hit him, and that same ball struck a gun and left its mark in the wood, and on the iron. Another ball that was fired whistled by my head and broke a plate-glass window.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Did this all occur before your men fired?
A. The shooting of this pistol--the man who fired that pistol was killed. Two men were struck, and badly hurt with stones, and the men that threw these stones were killed. All this took place before a single shot was fired from our side.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were there any other stores broken into and robbed?
A. No, sir; not robbed. Our store was broken into, but it was by the mob, in their efforts to get away from the guns.
Q. After you were arrested, tell what took place in regard to your being arraigned before a magistrate.
A. We were not arrested; there were no arrests, virtually no arrests made. We voluntarily gave ourselves up, after this coroner's inquest had taken place, which was a coroner's inquest held by an alderman, an illegal inquest, as decided by Judge Harding. An inquest was held, and myself, as well as a number of others, were found guilty of murder, and warrants issued for the arrest.
Q. Were you charged with murder?
A. Found guilty by the coroner's inquest of murder, so far as a coroner's inquest could do that. Among the number found guilty, were men, who--or accused of it--were men who were not in the posse, and had no connection with it, and it was known to every one, who were blocks away from Lackawanna avenue. One of them was three blocks away from Lackawanna avenue, at the time the firing took place; another one was in his barn, one block away from Lackawanna avenue; and another one, I doubt whether he was in the city; another one was inside the store--of our store. Both the Messrs. Hunt who were found guilty--were brought in by the coroner's jury, charged with murder, had no connection in any way, shape or manner with the posse, and were not present at it, the elder Mr. Hunt, being inside of the store, and the younger one, being over two blocks away. Warrants were issued for the arrest of the elder Mr. Hunt, and some others, and Mr. Hunt was arrested. This was done at night. It was understood that we would be arrested at night, and taken in carriages to Wilkes-Barre, and not allowed a chance to consult counsel, and taken down through Taylorville, where a large number of this crowd had come from, and where two of this crowd that were killed lived, and then probably lynched. As soon as any notice was given of these arrests, word was carried immediately to General Huidekoper's head-quarters, who was then stationed at the company's store, to come along on the track, and scattered where they would do the most good. He immediately ordered a company down, and took the prisoners from the constable, holding himself personally responsible for their delivery to the proper authorities. That was done, because no one had any idea that the coroner's inquest was a legal affair, and that the lives of the men arrested were not worth that, if they were taken off at night, because any one of them could be arrested in the day time. Any one of us could be arrested at any hour of the day, if they had seen fit to do so, and it was merely an action of revenge on the part of the crowd. The next day, all that were in any danger of arrest, voluntarily went to Wilkes-Barre, and entered bail.
Q. How many were arrested by that constable?
A. Two.
Q. And they were taken from the custody of the constable by this company of Huidekoper's?
A. Yes, sir. Undoubtedly other arrests would have been made, but they did not care to go under his guns to do it. We put ourselves under his guns, and spent the night there.
Q. Had they warrants against all the posse?
A. They were not able to find out. We were not allowed any access to what they were doing. It was all secret.
Q. Coroner's jury?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Warrants issued by the coroner?
A. By an alderman, acting as coroner.
Q. And placed in the hands of this constable?
A. To arrest. The constable told me that he had a warrant for my arrest that night, but refused to serve it.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you ascertain what force accompanied the constable to make these arrests?
A. No, sir. There was quite a crowd apparently hanging on, but the constable made the arrest alone. The idea was to hurry the men off quietly, without letting us know anything about it, and get them out of the reach of assistance.
Q. Who were the two men that were arrested?
A. T. T. Hunt and C. B. Chittenden.
Q. Were they part of your posse?
A. Hunt had nothing whatever to do with it.
Q. What was Hunt's business?
A. Hardware merchant.
Q. Was Chittenden a member of the posse?
A. He was a member of the posse.
Q. Did he participate in the conflict?
A. I am not certain whether he did or not.
Q. In endeavoring to suppress the riot?
A. I am not certain whether he was in the squad or not. I know he belonged to the general committee--the general posse. If he was not there, he probably would have been if he had had an opportunity.
Q. What class and character of men was that posse composed of?
A. The best men of the town. Merchants and lawyers, business men generally.
* * * * *
J. H. Powell, _sworn_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. I reside in Hyde Park, this city.
Q. What is your business?
A. At present I am not doing anything. My last business was editor of the _Industrial Advocate_.
Q. In July last what were you?
A. At that time my occupation was a miner.
Q. And in August?
A. At that time my occupation was a miner.
Q. In whose employ were you?
A. D. L. and W. Co.
Q. Delaware, Lackawanna and Western?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In what capacity were you employed?
A. Miner.
Q. As foreman, or as----
A. No, sir; miner.
Q. How far were you--was it from the city of Scranton where you worked in July?
A. We were not at work at the time. During that time they were on a strike.
Q. About the 20th of July--were you not at work at that time?
A. I presume not. I presume we were on a strike the 20th of July.
Q. Did all the miners----
A. I am not positive whether we commenced the strike----
Q. Did all the miners employed by the company strike?
A. It was a general strike. I presume it was a tidal wave that went through the country. The first commencement of the strike was the railroad men struck, and they blocked the mines to a stand still, and the miners at the meeting joined hands with the whole country.
Q. The miners struck?
A. They called a meeting, and decided to make a demand for higher wages.
Q. Had you stopped work before you called that meeting?
A. There was a meeting--a preliminary meeting--there was some of the mines idle for want of cars.
Q. Take the company that you were working for--the men that you were working with--did they strike, or were you stopped for want of work to do?
A. I could not state positive with regard to the whole mines. Part of the mines stopped for want of cars.
Q. I am asking whether yours stopped for want of cars?
A. At that time I was unable to attend to my work on account of sickness.
Q. Then you had not been at work for several weeks?
A. I was only working every other week. I could not work on account of sickness at the time.
Q. What day did they hold that meeting and agree to join hands with the railroad employés?
A. I am not positive of the date of that?
Q. Was it before or after the strike at Pittsburgh?
A. It was after the strike at Pittsburgh.
Q. Was anything done by the miners here about a strike before the strike at Pittsburgh?
A. No, sir.
Q. Had you held any meetings or contemplated a strike until after you heard of the strike at Pittsburgh?
A. No, sir; did not know of any meetings.
Q. Then that was the beginning of it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. The railroad employés struck first, I understand you to say?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did they send any word or have any interviews with the miners to persuade the miners to strike?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. The miners held a meeting and resolved to strike also. Is that the way of it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long after the railroad employés struck?
A. I presume, if my memory serves me, it was about a week after the railroad strike, so far as I remember. I did not take any notice of it.
Q. Did the miners have any organization, any societies among themselves?
A. I presume that they had an organization. They used to have organizations. What they termed the W.B.A.
Q. Had they any in last summer--in 1877?
A. I presume they had.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Do you know the existence?
A. I may as well say that I knew of the existence of the W.B.A.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Workingmen's Benevolent Association?
A. No; it was the old organization.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What was the new organization?
A. The new organization, I presume, the title is the Knights of Labor?
Q. What were the objects of the organization?
A. The only object of the organization is men combined together to elevate labor?
Q. Are you a member of the organization?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was it secret?
A. There were secrets in it.
Q. Was it confined entirely to miners?
A. No, sir.
Q. Other classes of laboring men--did it take any?
A. Took in mechanics, and all that earn their living by the sweat of their brow.
Q. Took in railroad employés?
A. Any class in.
Q. Can you give us the extent of that organization?
A. I could not, sir.
Q. Do you know whether it extends throughout the State, or whether it is confined to the coal region?
A. I do not believe it is confined. I do not know that it is confined to any place.
Q. How many lodges do you know of, or did you, at that time?
A. I could not tell you, sir. I am not posted in the organization.
Q. Was there a lodge here in Scranton?
A. There was.
Q. More than one lodge?
A. There were several lodges. I could not state how many.
Q. Do you know whether there were any lodges in the vicinity of here, around in the townships?
A. I presume there were lodges throughout the county.
Q. All through the county?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. Are those lodges composed of different trades--different branches of the trades? They are all organized--that is, for instance, miners into one----
Mr. Lindsey: No; he has just said, they took in all classes of laboring men, miners, and mechanics.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. I understand that. I want to understand whether he means a lodge, composed of those men generally, or whether they are lodges of each trade, and these lodges compose the organization or delegates from them?
A. I presume that there are lodges of different trades.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Under the same title?
A. The same title.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Take the lodge to which you belonged. Were they composed entirely of miners?
A. No, sir.
Q. What other classes of men belonged?
A. Mechanics, carpenters, engineers, miners.
Q. Were there any railroad employés?
A. I do not know of any.
Q. In your lodge?
A. I do not know of any. There may be.
Q. Carpenters?
A. Carpenters.
Q. Blacksmiths?
A. Blacksmiths.
Q. Miners?
A. Miners.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What class of engineers?
A. Stationary engineers; not railroad.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. You only include those employed in collieries and about collieries in your organization?
A. All employed around collieries.
Q. Can you give us the extent of the organization in the city?
A. I could not.
Q. Do you know how many members it has throughout the State?
A. I could not say.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Approximate about?
A. I have no "about" about it.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Have you not heard an estimate of the number in this vicinity or this county?
A. No, sir; I have not see anything official, more than it is stated somewhere, from thirteen thousand to fifteen thousand.
Q. In this vicinity?
A. In this county. That was the estimate. I have nothing official about it.
Q. The object is for the elevation of labor?
A. The object is the elevation of labor by honorable means and legal means.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Is it beneficial?
A. No, sir; only so far as helping a brother when he is in necessity.
Q. That is what I mean?
A. Yes; beneficial.
Q. If a man is sick or out of work or in distress, then he is helped?
A. Out of employment. In distress.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Is it not more for assistance in case of a strike in distress than in case of sickness?
A. This labor organization, it is on account of distress; for instance, a man out of labor and in distress--a family in need; it is a matter of charity.
Q. You do not understand me, or if you do, you do not take it right. If a man strikes, he is helped quicker than if he is taken sick; was he not?
A. I don't know of any proviso with regard to men that strike. If a man is thrown out of employment, or deprived of employment, and in distress, and wants help to go somewhere where he can get employment, the object is to help him along, in order to sustain his family.
Q. Do they ever assist the miners of a colliery that are on a strike?
A. There is no proviso for strikes. Their funds would not afford them to.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. If a man loses his employment from any cause, he receives assistance?
A. Not any amount. A man, for instance, is deprived of employment, and wants to go somewhere in search of employment--just help him a few dollars to get employment elsewhere.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Is it a part of the objects of the association to organize in strikes case they think it is best in order to get their wages raised? If they are dissatisfied with regard to wages, is it a part of the intent of the society to organize?
A. No, sir.
Q. Or to help them on to arrange the machinery for a strike, so that it will all come off together?
A. There is nothing connected with that organization, only to elevate labor by legal means.
Q. I suppose they would not call striking, quitting work, illegal means?
A. No; my view of the question, a man has just as much right to quit work, and that is legal.
Q. But that is a question, whether this is a part of the objects of the association. Whether in case the men felt that they have been aggrieved by the reduction of wages--whether the association acts as a unit in forwarding a strike, in assisting the men, to all quit work simultaneously?
A. Oh, no; nothing of the kind.
Q. Nothing of the kind in the by-laws and constitution?
A. No; I do not know of anything that I could draw such an inference from.
Q. Is this association in existence now?
A. Yes, it is.
By Mr. Englebert:
Q. Were you working in the mines in 1876?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What wages were you getting then--average--you being a practical man of intelligence, of course, you know about the average price of miners and laborers in 1876?
A. To be able to answer that question intelligently----
Q. As near as you can remember?
A. I ought to have prepared myself, by looking up the price of coal. I could not remember exactly what would be the price of a car in 1876. If I could remember that, I could find out about what it would be--the amount of money.
Q. What was the difference about in wages between 1875 and 1876, causing this dissatisfaction?
A. There was no difference.
Q. The same wages?
A. The price was the same in 1876 and 1877.
Q. Do you mean the pay for mining?
A. I do not remember of any reduction taking place.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was there any reduction in March, 1877, of ten per cent.?
A. I believe there was ten per cent. in March.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Did that take effect in the mines, or only in the machine shops?
A. There was one reduction that didn't take effect in the mines, but in the shops and among the mechanics.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Not among the miners?
A. There was one reduction the mechanics had that didn't reach the miners.
Q. And are the wages of miners fixed by the price of coal at entirely the same scale?
A. They got so much a car. There is one grand mistake been made in the assessment of the car. It leaves the impression that the men get so much a ton instead of so much a car. When a man gets sixty-four cents a car, it is not sixty-four cents a ton, but sixty-four cents for two tons of clean coal.
Q. That would be thirty-one cents a ton?
A. Yes; for loading and mining and all the expenses in connection with it. The price of a car contained the price of mining coal, loading the coal, and all necessary expenses.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Did not your mine wagons average more than two tons of clean coal?
A. I believe they average it so that a car carries about two and a half tons. There is half a ton allowed for breakage and culm, so it makes it about two tons of clean coal.
Q. Is that not a big average of loss?
A. It appears to me that it is, but it appears on the other side that it don't satisfy the corporation.
Q. About what I am speaking about is ordinary mining?
A. In my estimation, half a ton would be sufficient.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. How did this price range in 1877, as compared with 1873, at the time of the panic?
A. I could give you an estimate of what a miner would make in 1877 and 1876 as well.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Just state whether the wages were any lower in May, June, or July, of 1877, than they were in the same months of 1876? Make your own estimates to yourself.
A. I do not want to state anything but what I am positive of, and I cannot bring to memory with regard to the dates of this reduction.
Q. Had there been any reductions in 1877?
A. Up to that date I cannot remember whether there was a ten per cent. or not. There may be others that can remember these things.
Q. You cannot state whether there was any reduction in 1877 or not?
A. I am not positive. I am under the impression that there was a reduction; but I could not state positively--in the early part of 1877.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Will you please define the term strike?
A. The only definition I can give you is that it means suspension of work.
Q. You mean if just one man quits work, he is on a strike, or when there is a combination of men all quit at once?
A. Oh, no; a man may suspend work himself, but the term strike means a general suspension of work.
Q. Of all the men--then you call it a strike?
A. Yes; although the proper term is suspension.
Q. You know it is generally termed a strike?
A. So the railroad and everything of that kind call it a strike; but it is not termed a strike unless there is an arrangement or understanding that they all quit. A meeting is called, there is a delegation appointed to inform the officials of the corporations of the demand of the men, and that committee returns back and reports; and if that is accepted--sometimes it is decided by ballot--if they agree to suspend work until their demand is complied with--they go under the term strike.
Q. What is the object of the men, and what means would be resorted to, to prevent other men from working?
A. There is no provision to prevent anybody. I never knew of any proviso to prevent anybody from working.
Q. Then when there is any interference, it is unauthorized by your organization?
A. Oh, yes.