Part 91
Q. Did they furnish arms and ammunition on Sunday?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there any other encouragement given to the strikers by the citizens, except what you have mentioned--the giving of the arms?
A. They furnished us food.
Q. Was this food given to you because you were protecting the property, or was it given to you because you were strikers?
A. Well, we were strikers.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were arms furnished you for the purpose of resisting the authorities, either the civil or the military, or for the purpose of protecting the railroad property and other property?
A. We were not resisting any authorities at all. We had the arms to keep off the mob. We did not take the arms to fight anybody that had authority over us.
Q. What did you take the arms for?
A. To keep off the mob, or the tramps, or anybody else that wanted to interfere with us.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was that what the citizens gave you the arms for?
A. I didn't ask them what they gave us the arms for.
Q. What did they say they gave you the arms for?
A. Some of them said this, and some of them said the other thing.
Q. State what any one citizen said on the one side, and then on the other?
A. Some of them said, "Shoot the damned soldiers when they come," and some of them said, "If anybody interferes with you, or tries to wrong you, kill them right here"--talk of that kind. "You are out on a strike now, and have got the railroad company where you want it, and you are damned fools if you don't keep them there."
Q. Were similar remarks to those made by any of the persons who furnished you arms and ammunition?
A. I cannot say that, because I would only hear some of them talk as I mingled with the crowd. I would turn around and look at them, and then pass on. Of course, everybody was excited--everybody had lost their brains--everybody was wild, and people did not know what they were doing.
Q. Was anything said, prior to this strike, by the citizens about furnishing you arms?
A. No; I didn't hear anything of the kind prior to the strike.
Q. Did anybody offer to furnish you flour or articles to live on during the strike?
A. Yes.
Q. To what extent?
A. Enough to keep us until the strike was over.
Q. Were there any business men who offered to do that?
A. They were all business men.
Q. Flour dealers?
A. Yes; and grocery men.
Q. Wholesale dealers?
A. Men we were dealing with on the road offered to keep us all the time we were on the strike.
Q. Offered to keep you all the time you were out on the strike?
A. Yes.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did Mr. Jenkins offer to furnish flour to the strikers?
A. I have heard it so stated, but I cannot say so from my own knowledge. I don't believe he did. I don't believe he is that kind of a man.
Q. Did any other offer to furnish any?
A. No one except our grocery men--the men we were dealing with--they encouraged us. They knew their money depended on us.
Q. From your intercourse with the citizens, was it your understanding that you, as strikers, had the sympathy of the community?
A. Undoubtedly we did, sir.
Q. What led you to understand that you had their sympathy?
A. By their actions.
Q. But what else?
A. The way we would hear them talk in their daily conversation; but I think if the strikers had turned in when the mob commenced burning the property, and if the citizens had just turned in with them--and I know if I had been in Pittsburgh, I would have died or I would have stopped that mob--at any rate, I would have attempted it, and I think I would have had enough citizens to help me.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You mean help you to prevent the destruction of the property?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. The sympathy you spoke of--was it general?
A. We appeared to have the sympathy of the whole community.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you have the sympathy of the citizens while destroying the property of the railroad, or while burning it?
A. I think if we didn't have it, I think that they, the citizens, must have acted very funny. I didn't stop to ask them.
Q. Did you have the sympathy of the citizens in the destruction of the railroad property?
A. I don't think that they cared very much for the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, even if it was burned up. They just stood around, and said it was none of their business.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you over at the fire during Sunday?
A. No, sir; I kept decently away.
Q. Then how do you know that they stood around there?
A. I lived in a high house, and I noticed lots of people up on the hill. I had a spy-glass.
Q. You say that you, as strikers, had the sympathy of the citizens. Was there any antipathy on the part of the citizens against the railroad company?
A. So far as I was able to judge, I don't think the citizens of Pittsburgh ever had any high opinion of the Pennsylvania Company.
Q. Why?
A. On account of the freight discriminations, &c. I have heard business men say repeatedly that their business had gone away from them--that the Pennsylvania Railroad Company drove that away from them, and the newspapers have been crying the Pennsylvania Company down for years.
Q. Was that what encouraged the railroad employés to strike?
A. No. We thought that our cause was a just one, and that any one with any sense would be in sympathy with us.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Were there any citizens who condemned the strikers--any of them who ever said a word in rebuke of the strikers at any time?
A. After the fire; yes.
Q. But prior to the fire?
A. No. I never heard any one say anything of the kind before.
Q. But none of the officials of Allegheny condemned the action of the strikers?
A. At what time?
Q. At any time prior to that Sunday?
A. I never saw any of the officials, except Mayor Phillips one time when I spoke to him. He said if we wanted to strike we had a perfect right to strike.
Q. But he made a speech?
A. Yes.
Q. Didn't he tell the crowd to disperse and let the railroad property alone?
A. Not that I remember.
Q. What was the tenor of his speech?
A. My recollection of it is, he said if the men were determined to strike, all right, that they had a perfect right; but as chief magistrate of the city he would ask them not to interfere with any one that wanted to work.
Q. Didn't he also say that you must not interfere with the railroad property?
A. That is my recollection of it--that we must not interfere with anybody that wanted to work.
Q. Don't you remember that he said anything about the railroad property?
A. I have no recollection about his using the word property.
Q. Did he tell them that they must keep the peace?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. That he was there for the purpose of seeing that the peace was kept?
A. Yes.
Q. And you told him that you would keep the peace?
A. Yes; and he must have had some respect for our words, because he withdrew his police.
Q. You had no trouble during the whole disturbance?
A. No, sir.
Q. There was no interfering with the men that wanted to work?
A. No; I said distinctly that--in the presence of the mayor--that if they had scabs enough to work the trains they could do it.
Q. Do you know of any railroad men at the time of the disturbance, who were ready to go out on the trains?
A. I didn't see a man. Every man I saw said he would not work.
* * * * *
A. J. Cassatt, _sworn_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State your residence, and official connection with the Pennsylvania Railroad Company.
A. I reside in Philadelphia, and am the third vice president.
Q. Just give us a statement, as to where you were when the first disturbance occurred at Pittsburgh, on the Pennsylvania Central railroad, and what came under your observation thereafter.
A. I was in the office on Thursday--in the office of the company--about two o'clock, when I got a dispatch from Mr. Gardner, at Altoona, addressed to Mr. Frank Thompson, at Philadelphia, which was brought into me, on account of Mr. Thompson's absence in New York, stating that a strike had taken place that morning at Pittsburgh, among the firemen and brakemen, and that no trains had gone out that morning. I telegraphed to Pittsburgh, to get extra conductors and engineers, to take the place of those who had gone out, and I thought it would be over very soon. I went up to the country where I lived, and I didn't hear anything further until evening. On coming to the West Philadelphia office, I then heard that no trains had moved up to that time, and I thought that my duty ought to be there, and I got on a train and went to Pittsburgh.
Q. What time did you arrive there?
A. On Friday morning. When I got to Pittsburgh, I found that Sheriff Fife had called upon the State authorities, and that three regiments were getting under arms then.
Q. State now, what the civil authorities were doing at that time, and whether you had any interview with the mayor of the city, and if so, what the end of it was, or whether you tried to have an interview?
A. I was told when I got there, that Sheriff Fife had gone out to the mob, and had undertaken to disperse them with some deputy sheriffs who were sworn in, but that they hooted at him, and it had no effect at all. I was told that the city had no police force on in the day time, or only a few men. I saw Mr. Stewart, who was formerly connected with the company, and asked him to go and see Mayor McCarthy, and ask him to put on some of the discharged men, and gather a posse, and send them down to disperse the crowd, and get back the property. But Mr. Stewart came back in a short time, and said that the mayor would not listen to it. So I gave up the attempt to have a further communication with the mayor, and wait for the State to take its course.
Q. Who is Mr. Stewart?
A. He was formerly our freight agent at Pittsburgh, and he is very well known there.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What is his first name?
A. David Stewart. What passed between the mayor and Stewart I heard from Mr. Stewart himself.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you request the mayor to come to the Union depot, or request an interview with him?
A. No; Mr. Stewart was simply to ask him to swear those people in; and upon the mayor's refusing to do so, he came back and reported to me, and told me at the same time that McCarthy, the mayor, had declined.
Q. What time did Mr. Stewart return to you?
A. About noon, on Friday.
Q. Did you meet Sheriff Fife on your arrival there?
A. I saw Sheriff Fife and exchanged a few words with him, because I learned from Mr. Pitcairn and Mr. Watt what powers he had assumed.
Q. Did you see General Brinton during the day on Friday?
A. He came on Saturday.
Q. I mean General Pearson.
A. I did.
Q. And learned what steps had been taken by the State officials?
A. He told me what he had done. He sent Colonel Guthrie's regiment--and, indeed, I saw them when they were out--to East Liberty, and expected to go down with two other regiments and open the road. That attempt afterwards was abandoned, because they thought the force was not sufficient to disperse the crowd who were assembled there. They thought it best to wait until they could get a larger force, when they thought they could overawe the crowd, without coming to actual hostilities.
Q. Was any attempt made to move any trains from that time up to four o'clock Saturday afternoon?
A. No, sir; no freight trains. Our men declined to go out. The engineers and conductors said they were afraid that the road was blocked with the crowd.
Q. And until the arrival of General Brinton, with his force, no attempt was made?
A. No; in fact, no attempt was made then.
Q. Had you no communication with the citizens of Pittsburgh after your arrival?
A. Not as a body. I saw a number of the citizens. I think Mr. Park and Mr. Thaw, and Mr. James Park, junior. I think I saw him on that day, but I don't remember the citizens--quite a number.
Q. During the day Friday and Saturday, state whether the police officers made any attempt to disperse the crowd that were assembled about the railroad?
A. Not to my knowledge?
Q. Had you crews that were willing to go out in case they could get out without any disturbance?
A. We had a number of crews to go out after the road was opened.
Q. On Saturday had you the crews?
A. Yes. On Saturday 1 walked down with the troops as far as the round-house and went into the round-house myself, and saw a number of engineers that said they would take their trains out as soon as the road was open. We might have got up about a half dozen crews if the road was opened, and if they could go in safety. We had the engines all fired up and backed out, and ready to start at fifteen minutes' notice.
Q. Were the engineers and the firemen at their posts at the time the troops arrived?
A. We had men at the round-house--engineers and firemen and conductors and brakemen, ready to take the trains out, and we were going to send out double-headers, too.
Q. How many crews had you ready then?
A. They reported twelve or fourteen crews--enough to take out that many trains. I saw a number of men in the round-house, and talked to them, and they said they would go if they had protection.
Q. Were you at Twenty-eighth street when the collision occurred with the troops?
A. No, sir. I went down with the troops as far as the western round-house, and went in there with the plan of starting the trains at once, as soon as the tracks were cleared. I went into the round-house and made arrangements to start, when the foreman of the machine shop came to me, and said a riot was going on outside, and I got on the roof and witnessed the collision between the troops and the people. A great number of stones were thrown and shots were fired by the crowd, and then I saw the troops fire in return.
Q. After the troops fired on the crowd, the crowd ran, and the tracks were cleared for a time?
A. Yes.
Q. At that time were your crews ready to go out, during the time the tracks were cleared?
A. They were. I can state that the only part of the track that was clear was on Twenty-eighth street. The crowd lined the road above Twenty-eighth street, and there was a crowd at East Liberty.
Q. Was that the reason why the trains did not start?
A. Yes; the men did not think it would be safe to go. The crowd dispersed, and while I was on the roof I got a message from General Pearson--for he was in Mr. Pitcairn's office, three or four hundred feet from where I was--and that he wanted to see me, and I went there, and General Brinton came in at the same time, and I was present when the discussion took place between the two gentlemen as to the proper course to pursue.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. After the firing?
A. Yes; General Brinton said that he was not satisfied with the orders he had; that his orders were to go down and take possession of the property, but that none had been received about firing on the mob, and that he could not order his men to do it, and he wanted orders to disperse the mob, as it was re-assembling, and drive it away and make an end of it; or he wanted orders to get his command into a different position; that they were hemmed in between the shops and the hill, and were very much exposed to a fire of stones and a fire from the mob, and he did not think the place tenable, unless he got orders to attack and drive away the mob. General Pearson hesitated quite a while, and finally, after five minutes' discussion, or more, he said he did not think it his duty to attack the mob with that small force. He had no doubt that General Brinton could drive off and disperse the crowd, but there would be a great loss of life, and he thought the best thing was to retire the troops and wait for reinforcements, and then overawe the crowd and prevent bloodshed. I did not take any part in the discussion. I think that General Pearson asked me one or two questions, and I said that I was not a military man; that all I wanted was to get possession of the property again. I went afterwards to the Union depot.
Q. And did you remain at the Union depot all night?
A. To one o'clock, and then went to the Monongahela House.
Q. Were you there when General Pearson came in from the round-house?
A. I was.
Q. Did you hear what was said by General Pearson to General Latta?
A. No; I came into General Latta's room about seven o'clock that evening. My room was on the same floor. I saw General Pearson sitting down there, and he said he had come down to communicate with General Latta. I made some remark about his getting there--how he got there, and he said he had come along the tracks and among the cars, and was not recognized. I went away, and when I came in afterwards he had gone. I was not a witness of anything that passed between the two gentlemen.
Q. Do you know where General Pearson was during the firing between the troops and the people?
A. I believe he was in Mr. Pitcairn's office. I was so told that he was in the office at the time--by the clerks.
Q. Do you remember how General Pearson was dressed when the troops went out to Twenty-eighth street?
A. He was in a sort of undress uniform--light pantaloons and ordinary fatigue coat--a military coat. He was not in full uniform.
Q. In fatigue uniform?
A. Yes; a blue military sack coat, and, I think, light or white pantaloons.
Q. Did he have his sword?
A. No; I think he had a little cane in his hand.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. When he went out?
A. When he went down with the troops.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How was he when he returned?
A. In the same way, except that he had his coat on his arms. He was in his shirt sleeves. It was a very hot evening--a close evening.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did he wear his belt?
A. I think not; but I am not positive about that.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you observe a belt he had on--a very fine belt?
A. No: he may have had it on, but I don't recollect it.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. In the conversation that you had with James Park, junior, do you remember which day it was--whether it was Friday or Saturday?
A. I think it must have been on Saturday--I think it was.
Q. Can you state the nature of the conversation?
A. Mr. Park, I think, was arguing against the propriety of sending the troops down, and said that the mob was a very violent one, and there were very large numbers of them, and that we ought to have eight or ten thousand troops to disperse them, and he thought that the troops ought not to go down. I replied in substance that was not my business. That I was to open the roads as soon as the tracks were cleared, and I supposed that General Brinton had his orders, and would obey them.
Q. Did he suggest that it was a bad time to undertake to open the road that afternoon?
A. I think he did, but I gave him to understand clearly that I had no control over the matter; that I was only anxious to get the road open. He wanted me to suggest to the State authorities, or to ask them not to go down with the troops that day, or until we got reinforcements, and other suggestions were made by some other gentlemen--by Mr. Thaw--but I declined to have anything to do with them. In fact, Mr. Thaw had written out a note urging that the troops should not be taken down. I said I didn't think it was our business; that we were in the hands of the State, and that they ought to decide. Mr. John Scott, the solicitor of the Pennsylvania Company, came into the office while the discussion was going on, and said I was right, and Mr. Thaw then tore up the note; but he then made a strong appeal to me, personally, not to have the troops sent down; but I had made up my mind not to interfere in any way with the State officials, and I did not. I took the position that we were in their hands, and it was their problem to work out.
Q. Did General Pearson talk to you about the propriety of undertaking to open the road Saturday afternoon?
A. There was no discussion about it. It was taken as a matter of course that the troops would be down there. On Friday it was talked about, but on Saturday, when the Philadelphia troops arrived, there was no discussion about it. It was understood that they were to move down there at once.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. At the time of this conversation between General Brinton and General Pearson in the office, did you hear General Brinton ask for permission to attack the mob?
A. I don't know whether it was put in that form, but he said he had force enough to disperse the mob and to keep them away, and wanted positive orders to attack them. My recollection is, he objected to the form of the orders he had--it throwed the responsibility. He said I have got force enough, and my men are ready to obey orders. I have got force enough to disperse the mob if I have orders to do so. He stated to General Pearson, when he came in, that he had not given the orders to fire, nor had any of his officers, but that the troops had fired in self defense, which I think I can justify myself, as I saw the stones and the pistol shots fired at them before they turned and fired; and, indeed, the way in which the fire was returned led me to believe that it was not upon an order. It was scattering at first, but then became general.
Q. At the distance you were off, what led you to believe that no order was given to fire?
A. I was about one hundred and fifty yards, or perhaps a little less than that away, and I don't suppose the troops could have heard a command, if given, as there was such a shouting and yelling. The crowd was very large, and they all seemed to be shouting and hallooing. There was quite a shower of stones before the firing commenced, and when it did commence it was scattering, but then became quite general. It lasted a minute or two minutes, and I could see the officers trying to stop the firing, after it commenced.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You remained at the Union depot until one o'clock?
A. Until one o'clock, Sunday morning.
Q. Did you learn that the mob had commenced firing at that time?
A. Yes; we saw the fire at that time. I left the depot in the first place pretty thoroughly worn out, and then it was urged that there was an ill feeling against Mr. Pitcairn, and General Pearson, and myself, and they thought it might endanger the building if I remained there, so I went up to the Monongahela house, and spent the night there.
Q. Did you have an interview with either General Latta or General Pearson, in regard to preventing the mob from firing the property?
A. General Pearson had left at that time, and General Latta had no force at all. There was a mile of space between the depot and the round-house, where the troops were, and there was a crowd of people all along that distance.
Q. Had General Pearson his coat off when he came in?
A. Yes; it was a surprise to me that General Pearson could get out at the time he did. He must have been disguised. He had his coat on his arm. He must have got in among the cars.
Q. Were you on the ground, anywhere in the vicinity, on Sunday?
A. I was at the Monongahela house until eleven or twelve o'clock on Sunday. I then went over the Point bridge, and took that road because there was no crowd there, in company with Mr. Bennett, who drove me over. We went to Mr. Layng's office, and afterwards came back to the Monongahela house, and stayed there until two or three o'clock, and I then went to Allegheny City, and stayed there until eight o'clock, trying to get provisions to General Brinton. I succeeded in getting two wagon loads off, about eight o'clock in the evening.
Q. Had you or any of the officials of the road been able to ascertain whether there was any arrangement for a strike of the employés of the road?