Part 9

A. I was then what was called the general counsel of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, resident at Pittsburgh.

Q. Can you tell the committee whether, prior to July last, there were any differences existing between the Pennsylvania Railroad Company and its employés?

A. On that subject I have no personal knowledge. Any differences, if they did exist, between the employés and the company were known to the operating officers of the company, over whom I have no control. I only know it as a matter of public history, as other persons.

Q. Were you present at the disturbances of the peace within the city of Pittsburgh in July last?

A. I was during a portion of those disturbances, but not during all of them. If it is desired that I should give you a connected statement of what I did see, I would begin with where my personal knowledge of the transactions commenced.

Q. That is what the committee desire?

A. On the morning of Thursday--that week in which the disturbances occurred--I cannot recollect the date--on that morning there was no appearance of disturbance. I state this from the fact that Mr. Pitcairn, the superintendent of the western division, and I live within a very short distance of each other. We take trains at the same station, and when I went there that morning I found him there with his family, preparing to go, for a visit of some length, to Long Branch. The strike which had occurred on the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad was the subject of conversation between us during the few moments that we were together there, and I know, at that moment, he had not the most remote apprehension of any disturbance. I came into town on the train, and knew nothing of any disturbance until about noon, when I heard of the assault having been made upon Mr. Watt. I did not see it, or I would narrate it.

Q. Who was Mr. Watt?

A. He was the chief clerk, or assistant to Mr. Pitcairn. About nine o'clock that evening I received a dispatch, stating that Messrs. Hampton and Dalzell, the local solicitors, who took charge of the local business, were absent from the city, and requesting me to come to the outer depot. I did so. I got off at the Twenty-eighth street station. There was quite a large crowd of people at that station. Just when I got off, an engine was coming up from the direction of the Union depot. I do not know from whence it had started. Immediately, there was a cry that it must be stopped, and there was a rush of a large number of that crowd towards the engine. It did stop, and a loud halloo went up from that crowd.

Q. Who composed that crowd, so far as you observed?

A. That I cannot tell. My point was to reach the outer depot, and I spent no more time there than was necessary. At the outer depot I found that Mr. Pitcairn had not yet reached the city, although he had been telegraphed for. I found Mr. Watt there, his assistant, and learned from him the extent to which the disturbance had gone. That he can give you personally. Finding from that statement that a call had been made upon the mayor for assistance to regain the property of the company, and that it had been ineffectual, I went up to my office for the purpose of looking at the act of Assembly passed in 1877, and also the law providing for calling out the military by the Governor. I spent some time in doing that, leaving word for Mr. Watt to come to my office, so we might call upon the sheriff for the purpose of dispersing the mob, and regaining possession of the company's property. He came up in a short time, and we rode to the sheriff's residence, and woke him up out of bed.

Q. Where is his residence?

A. In Washington street, between Wylie and Fifth avenue.

Q. What time was that?

A. That was, probably, between ten--no I am not certain about the hour--about ten or eleven o'clock. I stated to the sheriff that the property of the company was in the possession of a large number of the employés and of citizens--the information was that--I had no personal knowledge of it--Mr. Watt was with me--and that an effort had been made, through the mayor, to regain possession, which had not succeeded, and that we called upon him, as officers of the company, to ask him to go to the outer depot and exert his power, as sheriff of the county, to disperse the crowd assembled there, and to restore possession to the company of its property. I said I came as counsel of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, and, that as it would probably be one of the most delicate exercises of power he could be called upon to make, I insisted he should send for his own counsel to accompany him, as if he found his power insufficient to disperse the mob, and to restore to the company possession of its property, we would ask him further to advise the Governor, so he might exercise his power, if he found it necessary. The sheriff replied that Mr. Carnahan was his counsel, and that he resided at East Liberty, and that he could not get him in time to go to the depot. He went for a deputy, who lived across the street--Mr. Haymaker, I think--and we all drove to the outer depot, on the way finding Mr. Pitcairn, who had arrived in a train from the East. When we reached the outer depot, General Pearson was there. He had been apprized by the Adjutant General. The sheriff was again informed of the desire of the company to obtain possession of its property, and have the crowd dispersed.

Q. Can you give the date of this?

A. I have said this was on the Thursday preceding the actual burning and destruction. As a matter of memory, my recollection is that it was the 19th, although I am cautious about dates, as I have not a good recollection about dates. The sheriff then went out with General Pearson to Twenty-eighth street. I did not go with him. He came back after the lapse of probably three quarters of an hour, reporting that he found himself unable to disperse the mob, and that he could get no force to enable him to disperse it. I then said to the sheriff that it was a question for him to determine whether he had exhausted his power for the protection of the company's property. He said he had exhausted it, and that he had made up his mind to ask the Governor to call out the troops to disperse the mob. At his request, I wrote a dispatch to the Governor, and submitted it to him, General Pearson, being present as I understood, acting as his counsel at the time. Some requests had come to send a dispatch to the Lieutenant Governor. I was satisfied that it was not such an occasion as authorized the Lieutenant Governor to act; but public information in the newspapers being that the Governor was absent from the Commonwealth, I suggested to the sheriff, as a matter of prudence, that a dispatch should be sent to the executive office, at Harrisburg, addressed to the Governor; that a copy of it should be sent to the Secretary of State, who was then in Beaver, we understood, with information that it had been sent to executive office; that another copy should be sent to the Adjutant General, who was understood to be in Philadelphia, and that the Lieutenant Governor should be informed of the fact that such a dispatch had been sent to the Governor, that he might have that information, and, if he had the authority to act, might exercise it.

Q. Who signed that dispatch?

A. The sheriff.

Q. At what time?

A. That was in the neighborhood of twelve o'clock that night. I am giving my judgment about those hours. Those dispatches signed by the sheriff were sent. There was a great deal of telegraphing that evening there, between myself and the officials of the railroad company, Mr. Pitcairn and others, the details of which I cannot now recollect. In the course of several hours after that dispatches were received from Mr. Quay and the Adjutant General by the Sheriff, informing him that the Governor had ordered out the troops. Dispatches were also received there by General Pearson, from the Adjutant General, giving him the same information. I cannot give the hour of those dispatches; but I know before we left the office, probably about five o'clock in the morning--four or five o'clock, perhaps--the sheriff and General Pearson had both received dispatches to the effect that the Governor had ordered out the military to the assistance of the sheriff, and that General Pearson had drawn an order, in pursuance of those dispatches, for one of his own regiments of this city to turn out. Probably about five or six o'clock that morning several of us left the office and went to bed at the Union depot. That was Friday morning. Now as to the actual progress of the strike. What occurred at the outer depot during Friday, I believe, I have no personal knowledge, and I do not know that I had any intercourse with any of the officials of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, and not, probably, with the military officers, until about four or five o'clock that evening. There was delay in the military responding to the general's orders. Some information reached our office, where I was engaged in other business in the office of the Penn company, that General Pearson was about to open the tracks with the military, and was starting for that purpose from Union depot. Mr. Thaw and I went up there together. When we arrived, there was a company ready to go to Twenty-eighth street. Mr. Cassatt was there, one of the vice-presidents of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company. I do not know what was said when I got there; but in some way my opinion was asked as to the propriety of the movement. Somebody asked me, I do not know who. There were a great many people around the dispatcher's office, where General Pearson was. I was asked the question. I said in reply, that as an officer of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company I had no opinion at all to give, that the civil power of the country having been called upon, and the sheriff having been called upon, and the military being there with General Pearson in command of them, I certainly would not give any instructions that would interfere with the discretion either of the sheriff or of General Pearson. I might reply, as a citizen of Pittsburgh, that there was no need of repeating the old maximum, which had got very trite, that there was no use in firing blank shot at a mob; but that when they were ready to strike, they should do it effectually, and disperse the mob. The General stated to me there the force he had, some sixty men in that company and a battery called Breck's Battery, the remainder of his force was at Torrens station. He also stated he had a number of men then at Twenty-eighth street.

Q. What is the distance of Torrens station from Twenty-eight street?

A. Out to East Liberty is four miles, and Torrens station is probably a quarter of a mile beyond that. From the length of time that had elapsed, and a number of the men not having responded, I felt satisfied it would be prudent to have more troops before striking, and I so telegraphed to Philadelphia. General Pearson, at that point, said: I believe I could take this battery up there and open the track at that point, but it would be with very great sacrifice of life.

Q. To whom did you telegraph to Philadelphia?

A. To the president of the road--Colonel Scott. I said in that dispatch, from the dilatory way in which the troops were coming, I thought that the troops ought to come from some other quarter than from Pittsburgh. General Pearson was evidently reluctant to sacrifice life, even if he could open the road by doing so, and wished Mr. Thaw and myself, as officers of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, to sign a request asking him to delay his movement. I refused to do so, saying that I would not control his discretion as a military man--that what should be done, at that time, should be left to him to decide. I left then and went out home that evening, and staid at home Friday night and saw nothing more of the riot than a passenger would see in passing out through the large crowd assembled at and about Twenty-eight street. I cannot estimate the number there, but the road was blocked and the hill was largely covered, when we went out on Friday evening. I returned to the city on Saturday morning, but did not see what transpired along the Pennsylvania railroad during that morning, as I was busy in my own office at Tenth and Penn streets. There was a great deal of communicating back and forth between the officials of the road, between Philadelphia and here, and west of this point, in reference to the strike. I was not present when the troops arrived from Philadelphia. I was pursuing my business in my department that evening until I went over to go out to my home, at Shady Side. The train I took was delayed, the firing having already commenced at Twenty-eight street. Word had come by telegraph, before that train started, that the firing had occurred. I went out in that train, through a dense crowd, both of civil and military men, at Twenty-eight street; and I was at my home during that night. The firing began that night, probably about eight or nine o'clock. I came into the city the next morning, and went to the Union Depot Hotel with some ladies who had been left on the train that could not get in the night before. It is not necessary for me to say what occurred. I found a place of safety for them. I found that the Union Depot Hotel was not a safe place at that time. I saw at that time the fire progressing up, but I was not any nearer to the scene of the riot at that time than the Union Depot Hotel. Secretary Quay and Adjutant General Latta were in the Union Depot Hotel making preparations to leave it.

Q. State the distance of your residence from the Union depot.

A. The station where I get off is a fraction over three miles from the Union Depot Hotel, and my residence is probably four or five hundred yards from the station.

Q. State whether at this time there was any rioting nearer to the Union depot than Twenty-eighth street, at the time you speak about when General Latta and Secretary Quay were in the Union Depot Hotel.

A. The fire had progressed, and was then progressing on this side of Twenty-eighth street up toward the Union Depot Hotel. I cannot say where the fire first originated, but looking up Liberty street from the Union Depot Hotel, when I was there, I should say the fire was then some six or seven blocks from the Union Depot Hotel. I could see it distinctly spreading across the street. I was not at the scene of the riot during Sunday; I was with the officers of the railroad company in Allegheny City, in conference as to the best mode of preventing further trouble, destruction, and rioting over portions of the road west of Pittsburgh. I do not know that I can give any further information in giving my personal knowledge of what I saw of the actual disturbances.

Q. Have you any knowledge as to what was done by the railroad company after that time?

A. In the way of suppressing the riot?

Q. Yes.

A. I might state upon that subject, that upon Saturday afternoon, while the officers of the western lines were in Allegheny City, a committee of citizens--at least a committee appointed at a citizens' meeting--a representative of Bishop Twigg--one of his clergymen, whose name I do not recollect--and Reverend Mr. Scoville, of the Presbyterian Church, and James I. Bennett, came to see what we could do in the way of suppressing the riot, and asking that some concession should be made to the men on the road. We replied to them substantially, that so far as the railroad company was concerned, we thought the mob had done about its worst. This was when the Union depot was burning--at least Mr. Thaw and I were on the hill a short time before, and saw the fire so near that we supposed it was then burning. We said it had now ceased to be a question between the railroad company and the employés, and was one between the public authorities and the mob, between government and anarchy, and that so far as we had anything to do with the question, we were now in an utterly defenseless position, and we thought, being in that position, if we were to make the concessions which had been demanded in the beginning, we would be breaking down the only barrier between anarchy and their property, and that now the question for the citizens to determine was whether they would make any effort to stop that lawlessness which would next reach them after it had spent its fury on the railroad company. So far as the efforts to stop the rioting by negotiations or compromising with the men were concerned, I had no direct connection with them. That occurred between others--friends of the road, the general management, and the representatives of the men--and I knew of them only in a general way, from hearing what was said by the officers, which was substantially, that while the men were in the position of law breakers, and holding control of the company's property, we could not yield to the demands extorted by that kind of violence; but that, if things were restored to their normal condition, the company was perfectly willing to meet the men, and negotiate with them in regard to this matter just as in regard to any other difference.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Upon this Thursday you speak of, you say you found, at a certain stage, that the road was in possession of the mob--substantially a mob--that then you went to the sheriff, and then, with him, to the depot, and found General Pearson there. Now, can you state to us who called for, or who sent for the militia--who called upon the State Government?

A. I have already stated that the call for the militia was made by Sheriff Fife, after he had gone out with General Pearson, and endeavored to disperse the mob at Twenty-eighth street. He then came back and reported his inability to do so, and that he had no further power at his command, and announced his decision that he would call upon the Governor, and, at his request, I wrote a dispatch to the Governor, announcing his conclusion, and asking for the Governor's aid.

Q. At the request of the sheriff?

A. Yes; he signed that dispatch sent to the Governor.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Did you call upon the mayor for assistance before you called upon the sheriff?

A. I did not personally. Mr. Watt informed me he did. He can give you that.

Q. Was General Pearson connected with the sheriff's office at that time as a deputy?

A. I don't know.

Q. You stated he was counsel for the sheriff?

A. Oh, no. I stated to the sheriff that I was calling upon him as counsel for the railroad company, and I insisted that he ought to have his own counsel to guide him in determining his duty in this emergency; but, saying that Mr. Carnahan was his regular counsel, and that he could not send for him, he went to the depot without him, with a deputy named Haymaker. When we reached the depot General Pearson was there, saying he had been requested by the Adjutant General to be there. When Sheriff Fife saw him there, he turned to me and said: "Mr. Scott, I know him, and for this occasion I will be governed by his counsel." General Pearson was not there as a deputy or a clerk, but in obedience to the dispatch of the Adjutant General, and the sheriff, finding him there, was governed by his counsel at that time.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Have you any knowledge as to who sent for the troops at Philadelphia, who ordered them here?

A. I have no other knowledge of it than that which came in the dispatches that night, which was that the Adjutant General had ordered them. A dispatch came from Mr. Quay saying that the Governor had ordered out the militia.

Q. The Philadelphia troops of the First division?

A. I have no actual knowledge as to who ordered them out, except in a general way; the Adjutant General was here afterwards, and when those troops came it was my understanding, derived from my intercourse with General Latta and all the others, that the military had been ordered out by the Adjutant General, he being the military officer of the State under the Governor. In speaking of all this, I am giving what occurred by the dispatches in the outer depot while I was there.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Can you give the extent of the destruction of the railroad property by the fire?

A. I cannot, with any accuracy.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Approximately?

A. I have been informed that the officers of the road are yet engaged in making up a full statement of the losses of the company, and any estimate I might make would be so entirely unreliable that, if it is important to the committee, I prefer sending for those who have that subject in charge.

Q. Can you give the extent of the burning, the destruction of property in general?

A. My statement would be simply from observation--that the burning of property commenced at or very near the station of Lawrenceville.

Q. How far from the Union depot?

A. I would suppose a mile and a quarter or a mile and a half. That is an estimate. I do not know, I may be wrong about that. It is the second stopping place out from the Union depot. The destruction on the track, of cars that were there, and buildings extending from Lawrenceville all along past the Union depot and embracing property of the Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and St. Louis Railroad Company, on Seventh street, in this city, the number of cars burnt, the number of locomotives destroyed or disabled, the value of the goods in those cars, and the value of the buildings that were destroyed, and the injury done on the road are all matters of computation upon which my estimate would not be worth anything. It will have to be obtained from actual examination of those who inspected them.

By Mr. Means:

Q. Was the first burning of cars or of buildings?

A. I cannot say, except as a matter of public information. I was not present. I have already stated I was at Shady Side on Saturday evening, when the fire commenced.

Q. Have you any knowledge about what time that fire commenced?

A. I saw the light in the evening about nine or ten o'clock, and sent my son in to ascertain the state of things.

Q. Of your own knowledge you do not know whether it was a car that was first burned or a building?

A. Of my own knowledge I cannot say at what point the fire began, or by whom it was kindled.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Can you state of your own knowledge what classes of men composed the rioters during the burning. Whether the mob was composed of railroad employés or of others than those, and if of others, of what class?

A. That would be in part my personal knowledge, but I could not give an answer to that without confounding together my personal knowledge and matters of information. I will give the result, if you wish it.

Q. State it?