Part 64

A. No, sir; I didn't. I think it was a mistake, a very serious mistake. I knew that the day police of Pittsburgh had been discharged--that is, most of them, and that the mayor was left with a very small force, but I knew at the same time, that the class of men that was engaged by the railroad companies--they are a pretty intelligent set of men--they can be reasoned with, and if arrangements had been made to have had their ground protected by police, not allowing any one to come up Twenty-sixth or Twenty-eighth streets--done that at night, I don't think there would have been any trouble. I don't think any of those men that were termed strikers--I think they would have hardly violated the law in knocking down police, if the police had said the orders were that nobody was to come. I forgot to say that very soon after the firing, after I had warned these little crowds on Penn street to go into their houses, I went over to my mill--the mills generally stopped about half past three o'clock, sometimes as late as four o'clock, and I found that some of our men had been a good deal excited--one man had rushed into the office, and wanted to know from our time-keeper if his gun was at home. He told him he must not have his gun, must not attempt to go for it, because if he did he would alarm his wife, who was then sick, but he went for, and brought his gun back, and handed it to our time-keeper, and went out in the mill for something, and the time-keeper gave it to our manager, and he took it back in our office, and broke the stock of it, then our time-keeper bet five dollars with this man that he had not a gun, and the gun was brought in, and it was broke up, and this man rejoiced over it, and said he had been making a fool of himself, he was very glad he had come to his senses, and he didn't take time to reason, nor did, I think, any of these men. Their general life and their education and training has been more or less different from yours or mine. If your son had been in that crowd or your brother, and you had heard he was shot, you would have just done as I would have done, sat down and reasoned whether he had any business to be there, and you would not have run in and shot down Philadelphia soldiers, or any other soldiers. They just heard somebody was killed, and they rushed for arms, all being done on the impulse of the moment, and done in a way that you or I would not have done, because if my son had been there and shot, I would have lamented it terribly, but I would not have gone there with a pistol or gun. I would have reasoned, undoubtedly, as you would have done, that he had no business to be there, or ought to have been home. These men didn't reason in that way.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Have you not had quite a number of strikes among the employés in the mills or factories in this vicinity, during the last five or six years?

A. I can call to mind quite a number of them.

Q. You are a manufacturer?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Employ a large number of men, do you not, sir?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Have you ever had any strikes in your works?

A. Yes, a number.

Q. Did the strikers attempt to prevent other men from working, that you employed?

A. Not by force. I never knew of any attempt by force. They did it by persuasion. I have twenty odd men out now. My rule is never to take any man into my employ that has ever struck on me. I will keep them from starving, with money, but not with work. I don't think there is any occasion for a strike. We require notice, and we give notice, and let every man know that if he ever strikes, he never can work for us as long as God spares me on this earth. I will lend him money, or do anything for him, but he will never work for me.

Q. In the different strikes, in your works, was there ever any violence used by the strikers, to prevent men from working, you put in there?

A. I don't recollect of any cases.

Q. Did you ever have any difficulty in getting strikers quiet--dispersed from your works?

A. No, sir; they were always very quiet, and when told to leave--sometimes they were not inclined to go out, and they called to me and I requested them to go, spoke to them mildly about it, and told them that my rules were to be carried out. I did once have to bring in a policeman, but the man was very drunk and did not know what he was doing. I am satisfied that if he had been sober, he would have left the building without calling in a policeman.

Q. You have had strikes in the city where there have been a larger number engaged than in this?

A. Oh, yes; we have had strikes where the aggregate number would have amounted to many more than those engaged at the Pennsylvania Railroad Company's works. We have had ten strikes here.

Q. Was there any violence resulting from them at all?

A. No; I don't recollect only in the case of a strike on the part of the puddlers, probably about twenty-five years or so ago. There was some little trouble at Bailey's mill. They brought on some eastern puddlers, and when they attempted to start the furnaces--it was principally women, the wives of some of the men--they struck them with stones a little, and had some few knock-downs, but they soon quieted.

Q. Have you had any difficulties lately--any violence, that is the last few years?

A. No, sir; none at all.

Q. Have you not had a strike among your puddlers, within the last few years?

A. Yes; about two years and a half or three years ago, and I couldn't employ them again just for the reason that my rules were, that any man that strikes can never work for me again, and I thought, of course, as there were so many idle puddlers at that time, that I would have no trouble in starting up my puddling forge. A puddler came around and says, "I can get men and can start you puddling." Says I, "I would like very much to start." Says he, "I can get up a gang by Monday." Says he, "Did you have any trouble?" Says I, "Yes; they struck." Well, they wouldn't work. That lasted for three or four months, and I concluded that some determination had been agreed upon, that these men that struck, must work for me, and I determined they never would--I determined before we started up. I would lend them money at any time, but they might starve, or their families starve, for want of work. I dedicated that forge to negro labor. My men was a little disposed to interfere by violence with the men who engaged themselves to carry on that work, but I have never known any serious interference with my negro workmen at all. We have had peace and quiet, so far as I can learn, and white puddlers have never molested them at all, and we have had them two or three years.

Q. Still working?

A. Yes; we pay them the same price as white men, because I told them when they came that we would pay them just the same price as white puddlers got in other mills, and we have had to do so.

By Mr. Dewees:

Q. Have you an idea how many employés are employed in the different mills in the cities of Allegheny and Pittsburgh?

A. I guess twenty or twenty-five thousand, probably; that is merely a guess. I would have to think over the number of mills. I suppose something like twenty thousand, and probably more.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. You are speaking about a strike about twenty or twenty-five years ago. Have you any recollection of the military being called out at that time?

A. I don't recollect of them being called out--they might have been.

Q. At any other time within the last twenty-five years, were the military called out to preserve the peace?

A. I think one time I recollect of them being called out--I think it was at the time of starting the negro puddlers at the bolt company's works. I think then the military was called on; that is about two or three years ago.

Q. Was there any serious opposition to those new men working there?

A. There was some quarreling and knocking down. I think there was nothing very serious.

Q. As a general thing, in strikes among your men here in the mills or manufactories, you think it is bad policy to call out the military to suppress any trouble that might arise from them?

A. Yes; I do so. I think so for the reason that the military would do very well, if they could overawe, but the fear is that somebody would throw a stone, or somebody would fire a pistol, and then they would fire into the citizens. You understand as well as I do, that you put up proclamations and warn people to disperse, and you can go in and talk and plead with them, and still the crowd will be there, and it is almost certain that innocent people will be shot down, if there is any firing.

Q. In your testimony, you state you saw Mr. Cassatt in the rear porch of the Union depot, and advised him not to attempt to move trains on Saturday, as the men in your mills and manufactories were idle on that day--not to attempt to move trains until Monday--what reply did you get from him to that advice?

A. He said they must have possession of their property. If the State authorities did not give it to them, they would call on the general Government, taking his watch out, and said that they had now lost an hour and a half. That is about as near as I can recollect. The idea was they had lost an hour and a half in moving the Philadelphia regiment up to Twenty-eighth street--up to where the crowd was congregated over their property; that is, the railroad men as a general thing, on their property. I think the citizens were, as a general thing, on the hillside, as near as I can understand it--the most of the citizens, spectators, &c., were up on the hillside--some of them were up as high as the pest-house, on the hill. One young lad was shot there through the wrist--he was in a line with the pest-house.

Q. Were you a member of the citizens' committee waiting on Mr. Cassatt at that time?

A. No, sir. We had no citizens' committee at that time.

Q. Were you a member of the committee that waited on the Governor and the officials of the railroad company, at any time after that, to give him some advice?

A. Yes.

Q. State that?

A. I have forgotten the day. I don't recollect the day he arrived, but I think it was--I don't recollect the day he did arrive--it was some time in the week after the riot.

Q. The latter part of the week?

A. Probably it was; by the way, it was Saturday. I recollect very distinctly, because I spoke of Sunday just about as I did to Mr. Cassatt. Joseph F. Dilworth, Mr. Johnson, and myself were appointed a committee to visit the Governor. We got word to meet him Saturday morning at Thirty-third street, in a car, and we went up there and met him. I believe I did the first talking, and advised that nothing should be done until Monday to take possession of the ground. He said he was going to do nothing in a hurry--was going to take his time, and move with caution.

Q. Was this the conference with the Governor?

A. With the Governor himself. He said he was not out here in the interest of any railroad, but in the interest of peace, or something to that effect. He left me to understand that he didn't come to look after the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, but to look after the safety of this community. He had an impression that our water-works were stopped, and he did just as he said he would do. He waited quietly and did not do anything at all until Saturday night, until everybody was in bed. He put out pickets along Penn avenue, and up and down the streets, to keep everybody from going on the railroad property, and then commenced to work, and tore up the track and relay. That could have been done before the Governor came.

Q. Could the trains have been run.

A. I think so. I don't think there would have been any disturbance at all. If they had the trains there, they could have taken them out without any disturbance.

Q. In your opinion, from what you know, would there have been any disturbance, if they had attempted to move trains on Saturday or Sunday, when the Governor was here, at the time you had this conference with the Governor?

A. I think there would have been no disturbance--I am satisfied that the men who were designated as railroad strikers, regretted, probably as much as any other set of men, the destruction of the railroad property, and probably they would have been about as ready as any other men to have interfered with any outside people annoying the Pennsylvania Railroad Company in its moving trains. They might not have gone on to the locomotives and moved them themselves, but if any persons could have been procured to take out the trains, I don't think that the railroad strikers would have interfered.

Q. Would the crowd of people have interfered on that Saturday?

A. I don't think they would have interfered on that Saturday--that was about a week after the riot.

Q. Did I understand you to say you appealed to the Governor not to attempt to move trains on that Saturday?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Did you think at that time there might be trouble?

A. I think so. I thought it was wise to take time, and do nothing until Monday.

* * * * *

J. Guy McCandles, _sworn_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. State whether you were present at the firing of the militia, on Saturday afternoon?

A. I was.

Q. Go on and state what you saw, and what occurred.

A. I was there the whole of Saturday. Went up Saturday morning, and was there during the day, and was there at the time of the firing, and when the Philadelphia troops came up, and whenever the troops came up, the crowd increased in front of them on Twenty-eighth street, until it was very dense, and there was a company deployed across the street to push them back. They marched up in front, with arms port, and marched up against the crowd, in order to push them back, but it was too dense, they could not do it. They retreated back a step or two, and charged bayonet. I was up on the hill, about two or three rods up on the hill, so that I could not hear any orders given of anything of that kind--I could only see their movements. I could see all their movements well. They attempted to charge bayonets, walked up slowly, got nearer and closer every moment, until the bayonets began to infringe on the crowd. Then one of the crowd got hold of a bayonet, and tried to pull the musket from the soldier. He jerked it from him, and he then gave him a sort of a push, and knocked him, I do not know which. Right immediately back of them, I saw a man draw out a pistol, and shoot right into the crowd. At the same time, there was two or three other pistol shots heard at different points. Almost simultaneously, we had a scattering fire from the soldiery, directed mostly right up on the hill towards where our troops were lying.

Q. Hid you hear any order to fire given?

A. I did not.

Q. How close were you?

A. About three rods off, at least. I could not have heard an order to fire. There was a good deal of noise and confusion.

Q. How many were wounded in the conflict?

A. I really don't know. I saw about fifteen or sixteen that were wounded, around on the hill where we were standing. I saw about that many there. There was one of the soldiers that was killed, shot through the head, twenty or thirty feet off, and when I went to him he was dead--a soldier of the Nineteenth regiment. I thought it was one of our own men. He was dead when we reached him. It was not one of our men, but the Nineteenth regiment, that was lying on our right and front. There was a very heavy volley of stones thrown into the soldiers previous to the fire.

Q. You were surgeon of the Fourteenth?

A. I was surgeon of the Fourteenth regiment.

Q. It was commanded by ----

A. Colonel Gray.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Do you know whether this soldier was killed by a shot fired from the mob or not?

A. It was not a pistol shot, I know that from the character of the wound.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. He was not one of the soldiers who put the mob back?

A. No, sir; he was one of the soldiers on the hill. They were facing towards the hill, and there was a great many of the mob that were there on the side of the hill, between the other soldiers, before us and Twenty-eighth street--a dense mass of them there.

Q. Was he standing in his command?

A. He was away from his command. He was not exactly in the crowd--the crowd was below him.

Q. He was not with his command?

A. Was not standing in rank at the time.

Q. How far away from his command?

A. About a rod from where the command was at the time. There was one or two companies on the hill in the same line with the others, and then two or more--three rods down, in front, near the hospital grounds. Had he been down with his command he would not have been shot--the shooting was higher.

Q. Was he back of his command?

A. As I say, his command was, at the time--some of the companies were--down near the railroad tracks, and there was a couple of companies up to the right of our regiment, three rods back of them on the hill, and it was between two--he was just between the two.

Q. Was he immediately behind any particular company, close----

A. He was some little distance to the right.

Q. Was he a non-commissioned officer, do you know?

A. No, sir; he was a private.

* * * * *

Doctor John S. Dixon, _sworn_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. 273 Penn avenue.

Q. Practicing physician?

A. Yes, sir; for ten years, in the city of Pittsburgh.

Q. State what knowledge you have of the riot, and what was done to suppress it?

A. The first part I took in any suppressing the riot--on Sunday I stayed at home, thought I might be needed, and that that was the best place for me. When it got so bad, and the Union depot had been fired, I thought it was my duty to go to the side of the hill to see what I could do there, and somebody proposed, or said, that as the grain elevator had already been set afire, that the next would be the Duquesne depot, and Mr. Bissell and myself and some others--quite a number started. I think he and I were the only ones of our party that got there. We went down to the Duquesne depot, and met a few persons there we knew and a great many we did not know. I do not know who was in sympathy with us or not. After being there some time, and trying to devise means of preventing the depot from being fired, if an attempt was made, we talked of getting a cable, and shutting off the leading avenues to the depot. There was a man rode up in a buggy and stated there was an attempt to fire the lower end of the depot. We were then at the upper end. We walked down, and there was a party examining a car. I went up and looked into the car, and there was some smoke and embers there, which somebody had scattered before I got there, to prevent it from catching fire. There was a barrel of oil rolled under the car--I do not know for what purpose it was, I suppose to set fire to it, and there was one man in particular by the name of David Carney or Carter. He was arrested afterwards; he was ringleader. I talked to him, and tried to persuade him not to do anything of the kind. He said he had been up all day at the fire above, and that he was one of the advance to set fire to the Duquesne depot. I asked him where he was from. He told me he was first an engineer on the Oil City railroad, and then he said he was from Ohio, then he told me he was from Greene county. He was so drunk and so excited and wild, with the burning, that he didn't know what he was talking about. He was bound to do mischief, and we talked to him one after the other, trying to persuade him, while one was holding him in control, and the party, the rest of the gentlemen, were interested in protecting the depot. They talked to a crowd, trying to persuade the people that lived there, if the Duquesne depot was fired, the whole lower part of the town would be burned, that the fire department were trying to save property on Wilder street on the hill, and that there would be several squares of valuable property destroyed if this depot was set on fire, as it is a mere shell, an old frame building, and very large. This man who was a ringleader of them, he said he didn't care a damn; he said that the property holders would have to pay for it, and the rich would have to pay for it, and he was a friend of the workingman. I told him if he would burn this property the working people, so many of them, would be burned out of house and home. He said there would be good come of it, at any rate, and that he was bound to burn that, and that they would burn the Connellsville depot, and that they would burn the bridges, and then they didn't care a damn what became of the rest of the town. I told him he had better not do that, that it was a very bad thing to do. Mr. Bissell told him, to try and keep him under control, that he had sent for policemen. The policemen came and I made information against him, and as soon as a couple of policemen nabbed him he wilted right away. He was very willing to be marched off to the lock-up. In his testimony at court, he said that he had arrived in the city Saturday afternoon, at two o'clock, from the oil regions, that he had been working that summer on his father's farm, some place up there, I have forgotten where he said--at some place, Parker, Oil City--had been working there during the summer, and heard there was going to be some fun down in Harrisburg, and he was coming down to have some of it, and that he had gotten drunk and didn't know what he was doing--that was according to his own testimony in the criminal court. He was convicted, I believe, for something like four years, that was about the total of my experience. I made an information against him.

Q. How did you learn his name?

A. I asked his name at the time, and he told me. He gave me two or three names, but his right name is either Carney or Carter. He gave one four or five days afterwards, at municipal hall, and at first he denied that he was the man at all--he never had seen me. Said he had been arrested on the south side for drunkenness, but he was recognized by Bissell and others, and he owned up he had been there. His name is Carney _alias_ Carter.

* * * * *

Alexander King, _sworn_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you live?

A. Pittsburgh, Nineteenth ward.

Q. What is your business here?

A. Merchant.

Q. In what kind of mercantile business are you engaged?

A. In glass material. I am not doing much now--winding up.

Q. Employ a large number of men?

A. No, sir; we have only two. I have been manufacturing heretofore, and have had quite a lot of them in a glass manufactory.

Q. You may go on and state what you desire to on the subject?

A. I noticed a few days ago, in an evening paper, a statement made by Sheriff Fife, or said to have been by him--of course, I do not know, I only read it in the papers--that I had offered the rioters a thousand barrels of flour.

Q. That was in Sheriff Fife's statement?

A. You gentlemen know, of course, what he did say. It was in the evening papers. It is altogether unfounded; it was neither flour nor money, nor have I ever offered nor paid one cent, or spoken to anybody on the subject. It is utterly without foundation.

Q. What you desire is to correct----

A. Any impression of that kind.

Q. And if such statements were made by the crowd, they were made without authority?

A. Yes, sir.

By Mr. Means:

Q. Was it not an assertion made here that that was the strikers this side, not the rioters?

A. The strikers. The crowd there claimed that the citizens were in sympathy with them, and they, too, had offered them a thousand barrels of flour. I think that was mentioned in the _Chronicle_. I should just say, I had never seen one of the strikers or rioters until I saw one of them in July--that is the first I ever saw any of them.

* * * * *

C. L. Jackson, _sworn_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. 202 Juniata street, Allegheny.

Q. What is your business?

A. Engineer of the Fort Wayne railroad.