Part 59

A. It appears to me the roughest class of people I ever saw. They appeared to be all strangers to me. I was present when the alarm of fire was struck. I was at the corner of Twenty-sixth street, right opposite the round-house, where the soldiers were. I was coming down, I guess it was ten o'clock or near eleven, and the firemen responded to the alarm, and came up Penn avenue a little above my house, and they was stopped by the crowd. They told them they could not go any further. I was across the street. I heard one man say, "I will shoot the horse, and if you undertake to go, I will shoot you." They ran across the street, and came right beside me, and I heard them say they would have them out of there if they would have to burn them out. I just said, said I, "my God, men, don't set anything on fire here, you will burn it all up," and the answer he made was, "Go to hell, you son of a bitch." That was the very words he made use of. I thought the least I could say was the best, as I was by myself.

Q. Were there any railroad men engaged during the day Sunday?

A. I didn't see one railroad man to my knowledge, not an employé of the Pennsylvania railroad.

Q. Men that had been discharged, did you see any of that kind?

A. I did not see any of the kind.

Q. What did you, in connection with other railroad men, do to try and stop this?

A. We did not do very much, for we could not. It seemed as though everybody was intimidated, and felt himself afraid to undertake to do anything. I did, I know, as one by myself. I do not think, in a crowd of men, it would have been useless to try to stop the burning at nine o'clock in the morning.

Q. Sunday morning?

A. Sunday morning. The whole yard was in flames.

Q. Did you have any communication with the committee that was sent up from Harrisburg?

A. I did; I believe I did.

Q. State what that was?

A. General Brown came to me in the morning--about five o'clock.

Q. Sunday morning?

A. Sunday morning; and said to me--he wanted to know where this committee of railroad men was. I told him that I did not know where it was, but, says I, maybe I could find some of them. If we could get past Twenty-sixth street we might get some of them; but you can't pass through, they are shooting us there. Says he, tell them to come down to the Union depot, that I am authorized to give the men what they ask. There was a party went down there, and they could not find General Brown or any one else.

Q. Who was it went down?

A. I went down for one, and I didn't mind who else went down, it was impossible to get one of that committee, because they were scattered all through the city.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Were you on this committee of safety or any sub-committee, appointed by them, to go and confer with the strikers at any time.

A. No, I do not think--I think we went down. There was a committee of safety come up there, and I think Captain McMunn and myself and some of our ward boys, several of us, went down.

Q. As railroad men?

A. As railroad men, we went down. I got into the crowd down here, right below the elevator there, tried to find the leading man of the citizens' committee, and they got to shooting, and the crowd ran down there. There was a tremendous crowd there, and carried us along with them. I do not think there was any use to try to do anything at all.

Q. You said you would not like to have attempted to get out with that train on Saturday?

A. No; I would not.

Q. Did you apprehend any danger from any one?

A. None. I would not have apprehended any danger, I think, from anybody but from outsiders.

Q. Not from the railroad men?

A. Not from the railroad men. I did not think that they would interfere with me.

Q. Did you hear any threats of violence from the railroad men or engineers or any railroad strikers?

A. No; not to me at all.

Q. From any one else?

A. I did from outsiders--remarks--but I didn't know who they were--that the first man that would attempt to go out had better hunt his coffin.

Q. You saw the handling of cars and engines by the rioters during the destruction of property there in the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street and at the depot--did these men handle the cars and engines as if they had been accustomed to handling cars and engines?

A. I didn't see anybody handling an engine. After the soldiers went into the round-house, I never went up near the place, that is, further than going up some of the side streets to look over the burning. All the engines were further up, at Twenty-eighth street. I was not up there.

Q. You saw none of the mob taking engines and running them on the track?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you see them handling the cars and switches?

A. I did not.

Q. You were speaking of an association of engineers. Is that the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was there any coöperation or action between that association and the Trainmen's Union at any time that you know of?

A. I do not think there was any of any account?

Q. If there was, you would know it?

A. I believe I should know it. There was a disposition on the part of all the men, when the strike had occurred, to stand out for their ten per cent. That was their object.

Q. That is, you mean all the trainmen, and engineers as well?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Are you a member of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers?

A. I was. I believe the order in this vicinity has disappeared.

Q. That association was got up for protection--a charitable institution for those that were connected with it?

A. Nothing to interfere with the railroad.

Q. If there had been any coöperation between the Trainmen's Union, or any connection between them and your association, you would likely know something about it.

A. Yes; there was this, so far as the ten per cent. went. That I believe was all after the burning. I do not think there was any connection with it before.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Was there any coöperation or pre-arranged plan to strike for the purpose of securing this ten per cent.?

A. No, sir; not at all. The trouble had originated not until after there had been a committee to see Mr. Scott; but the thing had dropped, and I had heard nothing of it from the time that committee reported, and I do not remember the report they made, either.

Q. Was there a general dissatisfaction and complaint on the part of the railroad employés on account of this reduction of pay?

A. There was. That seemed to be a great deal of the trouble. They were dissatisfied with the pay they were getting.

Q. In your opinion, did that lead to the strike and trouble here?

A. I do not think it did. No, sir; I do not think so.

Q. What was it that led to the disturbance?

A. I do not think that would lead to it, because if the committee of engineers went to see the general officers, and they didn't get satisfaction, or claimed that the business that they were doing could not pay it, the men would have waited until such time as they would. They claimed that they were in pretty close quarters financially, but as soon as business would warrant, why they would restore it.

Q. What led to immediate troubles here? What was the immediate cause?

A. Running these double trains.

Q. Double-headers, as they were called?

A. Double-headers, as we called them.

Q. Why was there less objection to running double-headers?

A. In the first place it is very disagreeable for the men, and they consider it dangerous for one thing, and in running these trains it cuts a good many of them out of employment.

Q. Reduce the force of train men, not engineers?

A. Not of engineers, of trainmen.

Q. Wherein consisted the danger of running double-headers?

A. In the first place you hold just twice as many cars, and you don't have any more men on the train to hold them. Brakemen would hold thirty-four cars with two engines, and seventeen cars with one. If these trains get started they are pretty hard to manage.

Q. Did you have these engines at the head of the trains at all times, or did you have one in the front and one in the rear?

A. At the head all the time, they consider it safer that way to run them than to run one behind. Going through these up and down grades and turning is liable to break.

Q. The only danger there was in not having the same number of brakesmen to the same number of cars as you do when you run the single train?

A. That would have helped the matter considerably, I believe.

Q. There was no other danger?

A. There was no other danger.

Q. Could not that danger have been counteracted by having less trains?

A. They would not think that was safer.

Q. Would not there have been less danger by taking two trains and making one, and running them on the track--less danger of collisions than if you had to have two trains instead of one?

A. There is more danger running this double train than the single trains, because they are harder to manage.

Q. You can handle a train more readily?

A. Yes; check it up quicker. You can check a train much quicker--a light train than a heavy one--and they are less liable to break in the dark and in the fog. In the fog you can't tell whether they are broken or not. They might stop, and the hind part run into the front part, which has been frequently done.

* * * * *

J. F. Cluley, _sworn_.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Where do you live?

A. Centre avenue, city.

Q. What is your business?

A. Painter.

Q. Go on and state what you know in relation to the riots of last July?

A. On the Saturday, probably about half-past two, I went up to the depot and went in, and the Philadelphia soldiers were about starting out. I got up to Twenty-eighth street probably half an hour before they did. Everything was quiet there--at Twenty-eighth street. There was a company keeping the street clear--a company of troops.

Q. Who was that company commanded by?

A. I do not know. It looked like a cavalry company on foot from the trimmings on their clothes. As soon as the Philadelphia troops came up the mob closed round, and commenced hooting and hollering.

Q. Go on and state what took place there?

A. I suppose I had been up there probably twenty minutes, when they formed a double line and cleared the track. I was throwed over toward the round-house. I went round the cars at Twenty-eighth street, probably two hundred feet up the hill. There was a ravine coming down there, and I got outside of it. I don't mind how long I had been in there before the troops formed. At that time they had swept the tracks, and there was two or three lines formed outside the tracks. The troops had done some manoeuvering, they had marched up right against the track. At that time Twentieth street was blocked, and they marched, and the crowd did not get away, and they stepped back and made a bayonet charge. It seems to me after they had marched up against them I saw some men stagger, but I was too far off. About the time they made the bayonet charge there was a stone or three or four stones came from the direction of the hospital, and a pistol shot fired.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. From the direction of the hospital?

A. There is a watch-box there--it was not more than three stones, I think, they throwed. It was done just about the time the bayonet charge was made, and then there was a pistol shot about the same time.

Q. From the crowd?

A. It was generally in that direction; I suppose it was in the crowd. Then the firing was done just after.

Q. Did you hear any command to fire?

A. No; I was two hundred feet back. I was in a position that I could see the whole thing take place.

Q. Did the men fire as if they had received a command?

A. It appeared to be a scattered fire. As soon as they commenced firing, I started up on the hill. Some one called out they were firing blank cartridges, and I seen the dust flying around, and I threw myself down like everybody else. There was a man shot within the length of this room from me, and killed--a man named Ray, I think. I then started down hill, and when I was coming down I saw a man on the far side of Twenty-eighth street swing round a freight car, and throw into the company--he threw three or four stones or some missiles in among them, the last, when I was down almost to the track, and I thought every stone I seen throwed, I thought they would fire.

Q. Was it before they had fired?

A. After the firing, he swung around, and seemed to be inviting them, I thought, to do something.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Inviting the soldiers?

A. It looked as though he was. He was holding on to the iron rod on the car, and was swinging on in front of them. He was a large man, about six feet, very genteelly dressed--more so than the common run of them.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. This man you saw swinging on round there, trying to make an effort to exasperate them?

A. It looked as though he was inviting them.

Q. It looked as though he was trying to exasperate them?

A. It looked as though he was inviting them to fire. I crossed the track ten minutes after the firing was over. The soldiers seemed to be laying huddled together. This stone throwing was right in among them.

Q. Did you see any of the soldiers struck down by missiles before the firing took place?

A. When the first advance was made, I thought I saw one of them stagger. I cannot tell whether they were hit. After they made the bayonet charge the parties took their hands and threw the guns up.

Q. What was the appearance of the class of men that threw the stones?

A. This I think was a half grown boy that threw the missiles from the back of the house.

Q. A boy?

A. It looked to me. Three or four have grown boys there.

Q. Did you see any men there throwing stones?

A. I don't recollect of seeing any stones throwed, except at this watch-box, until I saw this man, after the firing was all over. The track was perfectly clear when I crossed.

Q. What was the character of the crowd immediately in front of the military, or near the military?

A. Rough looking. I had seen the same crowd around for two or three days. I had been out and in on the railroad. I had seen them at ... street and Twenty-eighth street, for two or three days.

Q. Would you take them to be citizens of Harrisburg?

A. Yes, sir; not as a general thing. I know some of the conductors of the trains remarked to me that everybody was going in and nobody was coming out--all the tramps come in town and none going out.

Q. These men--would you take them to be what is generally denominated tramps?

A. Not all of them. Generally a pretty rough looking set. On the hill side there was plenty of women and children.

Q. I mean in the immediate vicinity of where the troubles were?

A. These were a rough looking set of men. I won't say they were all tramps. They were a rough looking set of men. I noticed them before the military came up. There was no disturbance at all until after the military came up. They were all quiet.

Q. They resisted the military, when they came up?

A. After they formed a line and made a charge.

Q. They resisted the military before the firing?

A. Yes; they stood right like a wall. The military marched up, and they didn't give the least bit. Then they stepped back a piece or two, and made a bayonet charge. I was not close enough to hear any orders given.

* * * * *

C. H. Armstrong, _sworn_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. Thirty-second street.

Q. What is your occupation?

A. Coal business.

Q. Where is your office?

A. Liberty street, between Twenty-eighth and Twenty-ninth.

Q. Were you at your office on the 19th--Thursday, 19th of July last?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How large a crowd of men was there gathered about there during Thursday?

A. There was quite a large crowd there during Thursday morning. Towards the afternoon a great number had come up to see the strikers. There was very few railroad men among the crowd.

Q. What class of men were there?

A. Parties that lived around the railroad there, just come up to see the excitement.

Q. Where they demonstrative?

A. No, sir; they were not. They were all talking about double-headers, I do not know what they meant, and I asked them, and they told me about putting two engines on a long train.

Q. How large a crowd was there at any one time during the day, Thursday?

A. I guess three or four hundred--in the afternoon about four o'clock.

Q. Did they remain there during the night, Thursday?

A. Yes; I was up there about twelve o'clock, and there was a few men there--about thirty remained there during the night waiting for trains to go out.

Q. How many on Friday?

A. There was seven or eight hundred. They were expecting the soldiers in that evening. Were also expecting the Harrisburg men up that evening. They did not come up. I went down Saturday morning and went down the railroad from our house. I saw the Harrisburg soldiers there on the side of the hill and also down by the railroad.

Q. How large was it Saturday?

A. I don't know how large it was; the streets were just jammed and the side of the hill on Twenty-eighth street.

Q. Was you present when the firing took place?

A. Yes; I was up on the side of the hill about seventy yards from where the troops were.

Q. Did you see troops as they marched up?

A. Yes; I saw them before they left the Union depot. Saw them get their cartridges before they left there.

Q. Did you go up ahead of them?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you have any talk with the mob?

A. Yes, sir; I talked with some of the railroad men.

Q. Tell them that the troops were coming?

A. Told them that the Philadelphia troops were coming.

Q. What did they say?

A. They said that they were not afraid of that; as long as they didn't hurt them, they would not hurt them.

Q. Was the sheriff's posse ahead of the line?

A. Yes; I recognized a few of them, I believe the sheriff was ahead, and, I think, Deputy Sheriff Steward, and, I think, Mr. Pitcairn was also ahead of them. He was walking beside Sheriff Fife.

Q. Did you see any stones or missiles thrown by the crowd at the soldiers?

A. Yes; about the time they were charging bayonets.

Q. Was there any pistols fired by the crowd?

A. There was one or two fired. A pistol about the center of Twenty-eighth street; held it over, and shot down the road. By that time there were stone throwing. There were two cannons, and there was some boys started to throw stones, and one of them hit a soldier against a car, and the moment he fell they started firing. He threw up his arm about the time they charged bayonets--the crowd was throwing the bayonets up. The crowd catched hold of the bayonets, and threw the guns up to save themselves.

Q. Did you hear any command given by any of the officers to fire?

A. No, sir; I did not. I heard them charge bayonets. I heard that command, and I heard them give their military manoeuvres, but I heard no command to fire at all.

Q. Did you remain there during the night--Saturday night?

A. Yes; I was there until Sunday, at dinner time.

Q. What time did the mob begin to fire the cars?

A. At half past ten o'clock.

Q. Do you know who set the first on fire?

A. No, sir; I could not say, I heard them say it was small boys done it. It was right back of our office it first started. The time I saw it there was first one car on fire, and they started to run oil cars down against it.

Q. Were you there during the time, Thursday or Friday, when the police force came out?

A. They were there. I did not see them come up, they were up there when I was there.

Q. How many policemen?

A. I do not know how many there was, only about ten or twelve, I think. I think there was only three or four on Thursday.

Q. Did they make any efforts to disperse the mob?

A. Not as I saw.

Q. Did they assist in trying to start the train?

A. I did not see them trying to do that at all.

Q. Do you know who was in charge of the police?

A. No, sir; I could not say.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. You heard the command given by the officers to charge bayonets?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you remain in the same position after you heard that command until after the firing commenced?

A. No, sir; I did not, after the first volley was fired.

Q. But from the time you heard the command given to charge bayonets up to the time of the firing, were you still in the same position?

A. Yes; I was in the same position.

Q. If there had been a command given by the officers to fire, you think you would have heard it?

A. I think so. I heard most of the other commands and the manoeuvres they went through before they charged bayonets.

Q. You heard that distinctly?

A. I heard the order to carry arms, shoulder arms----

Q. Arms port?

A. I do not know whether I heard arms port or not.

Q. How long after the command was given to charge bayonets before the firing commenced?

A. About two minutes. It was a different body of men that came up through the hollow-square.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. How did they fire. Did they fire altogether, as if they were ordered to fire?

A. The parties next to the cars. The men in their company did the first shooting, and they shot very low. At the same time those in front shot higher.

Q. They commenced?

A. Commenced right where these men fell.

Q. On the road?

A. No; that was, I run back against the car--a lot of flat cars filled with coal.

Q. Was this the line that was formed parallel with the railroad tracks, on the right towards the hill side?

A. No; towards the round-house.

Q. There is where the first shot was fired?

A. Yes, sir. A man standing near the end of the cars fell, and just as he fell, they just put their guns up and shot.

Q. Did you notice in what direction they fired?

A. Towards the hill.

Q. Over the heads of the other line?

A. Yes, over the heads; I could see the dirt fly; the party in front of them shot.

Q. Did they appear to fire in the direction of where the missiles and stones came from?

A. The missiles came right in front of this other body of men that shot towards the side of the hill. The stones were right at the foot of the hill, and they shot up on the side of the hill. The boys that threw the stones, were down at the foot of the hill, right back of the tracks. There was two cannons there, and those boys were right among them throwing.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Did you say the troops came out of the round-house, Sunday?

A. I didn't say they came out of the round-house; I say they passed Twenty-eighth street. I was on the corner of Twenty-eighth and Penn when they passed.

Q. Was anybody shooting at them?

A. I saw one man following them up as they came down Twenty-eighth street.

Q. He followed them up?

A. Followed them so far as I could see, about the middle of Twenty-eighth and Twenty-ninth. I was afraid they would shoot at me.

Q. What did he do while he was following up?

A. Threatened to shoot several times--threatened to shoot on an alley in Twenty-eighth street. We put up our hands at him. He got up again and followed them at Penn street. I got back of a sign and I believe he shot after he got a piece further up.

Q. You didn't see him fire?

A. No.

Q. He had a gun?

A. A breech-loader.

Q. Musket?

A. It was one of those breech-loaders. I saw him throw it up and examine the cartridges.

Q. Did you know the man?

A. No; I knew he wore a linen coat and a white straw hat.

Q. Was it a rifle or a shot gun?

A. Yes; regular musket, called breech-loaders, something similar to what the militia have.

At this point the committee adjourned, to meet at the arsenal, at half-past eight o'clock, this evening.

ALLEGHENY ARSENAL, FRIDAY EVENING, _February 22, 1878_.

The committee met pursuant to adjournment, at the United States Arsenal, at half-past eight o'clock. All members present.

* * * * *

Major A. R. Buffington, _sworn_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. First state your rank and official position here under the United States Government?