Part 57
A. There was no more than one command. The word fire was given by different men in uniform. They were standing not in the rear, but in front of the line of militia that was right in front of me. I heard that from more than one voice.
Q. In what words was the command given?
A. The command I speak of as given by those parties, was the word "fire."
Q. Addressed to any particular person?
A. Not by those parties--just "fire."
Q. How do you know who gave that command?
A. I could hear them; I don't suppose I was six feet from some of them.
Q. Could you pick out the men who gave the command?
A. That gave the word fire?
Q. Yes?
A. No, sir; I couldn't.
Q. Then you don't know who it was that gave the command?
A. That gave these commands? No, sir.
Q. You say it came from officers in command of a company?
A. It came from what I supposed by the position they held--they were strangers to me.
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. Couldn't you distinguish the officers from the private?
A. I thought I could. It was what I consider officers. I didn't pay that much attention. I had no idea there was going to be such a command given, and paid no attention to officers nor privates. These parties had no guns. Whether they were captains or lieutenants, or what, I couldn't say.
Q. You wouldn't pretend to say what man it was gave the command, or pick out the man?
A. That gave this command I speak of? No, sir.
Q. You could only tell the direction in which the words came?
A. If they had been Pittsburgh troops had been there, I suppose I could have told every man of them. I could not point out the men if they were brought before me now.
Q. Could you see the man who uttered the words?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. So as to pick him out?
A. I could, provided I had seen enough of the man. I couldn't remember him now. I believe if I could see the man that I first heard these words "fire" from; if I would have seen him the next morning, I could point him out. I don't remember of having seen him since, and I don't know that I could point him out if he was here.
Q. How was he dressed?
A. Dressed in a gray uniform? He was in full uniform, with gold lace on it.
Q. What rank did his uniform indicate?
A. I didn't pay that much attention to him to find out what his rank was. The militia uniform is so badly mixed, I could hardly tell what the man's rank would be. The uniform seemed to be about the same in all the officers. I didn't pay any attention to these troops as regards that.
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. Had he a plume, the same as the privates?
A. I couldn't say.
Q. Didn't notice?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. How many officers did you hear give this command to fire?
A. I couldn't say exactly. I suppose seven or eight.
Q. All gave the command to fire?
A. Yes, sir; that is, I heard it in that many different voices; I couldn't say how many officers, but in that many different voices.
Q. Not at one and the same time?
A. Not at one and the same time.
Q. Did any other words precede the word "fire?"
A. Not by the officers I speak of.
Q. Nothing but simply "fire?"
A. Simply "fire."
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You are sure they didn't say not to fire, and you only heard the word "fire?"
A. I am sure of the parties I speak of.
Q. That they were not cautioning their men not to fire on the crowd?
A. No, sir; I am sure of that.
Q. Couldn't you have made a mistake, and only heard the last word?
A. Not from the position I was. The parties may have been mistaken in regard to where they got their order.
Q. When they were ordered to charge bayonets, what was the command given to charge bayonets?
A. As I spoke before, the command was given, that I could hear the command but couldn't hear what was said to the troops. It was given to two companies in a low tone of voice, but what I understood to be "charge bayonets," and a charge bayonets was immediately made after this order. It was in a low tone of voice.
Q. Not as a military officer ought to give a command?
A. Not as I would suppose a military officer should give a command. I am not posted in regard to how they should give it.
Q. He didn't say it as though he meant business?
A. It looked very much like it.
Q. He gave it in a low tone of voice?
A. Just gave it in a low tone of voice to those two companies--it was a command to those two companies.
Q. When he gave the command fire, did he speak it distinctly as though he meant exactly what he said?
A. Who are you speaking of?
Q. The officers that gave the command?
A. Yes; they spoke it distinctly.
Q. As though they meant exactly what they said?
A. I supposed from that they meant it, that is the reason I got out of the road. I thought they meant what they said.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What position did those officers occupy when this command to fire was given. The officers I speak of giving the word "fire?"
A. They were in front of the command.
Q. In front of the rank?
A. In front of the rank. There was no room for them in place else.
Q. You are sure they were in front of the rank?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Seven or eight of them, you say?
A. If you will allow me to explain about the officers. Six, seven, or eight. There was two ranks of troops, stretching from the switch at Twenty-eighth street down the track in two ranks, and those two companies were at the upper end. What I supposed to be the general officers were in the rear of those two officers, and the other officers were scattered down along. There was two lines. There was seven or eight not scattered along, because they were over near to what I considered to be the generals.
Q. They were in front of the rank?
A. The line was facing this way. [Illustrating.] There was no officers outside of this rank [indicating] that I could see, and there was no room in this rank, because here is a truck--a coal truck. I stood from where I could stoop down and touch the soldiers.
Q. Wouldn't you suppose this was a pretty bad place for an officer to stand?
A. I should think it was.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. These officers stood between the mob and their men?
A. No, sir.
Q. They were behind the men?
A. What I consider the mob was at the switch at Twenty-eighth street. That was the switch here. [Illustrating.] The Philadelphia troops were formed in two ranks. There was the two companies coming up here, [indicating,] one in single file, and when they got to the switch the men stopped them. They were in single line. This company was brought up between the two lines, forcing every person out, keeping that part of the track clear. They succeeded until they got to this switch. When they got to the switch one company was not successful in driving them back.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You said the officers were in front of the men, did you mean those men that were standing in line? The officers were in front of them, was the ones you speak of?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. It was these officers gave the command to fire?
A. These officers I was speaking of.
Q. It was not the men that were marching up to clear the crowd--I mean marching towards the crowd?
A. It was not those officers I heard.
Q. It was the bystanders? Those officers had nothing to do with those companies?
A. No, sir; not with those two companies up the track--no, sir.
Q. Did the companies commanded by the officers who gave the command, fire?
A. I didn't wait to see.
Q. You don't know that they did fire?
A. Not from my own knowledge, but from the parties wounded and killed, I would suppose so.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. How long after the command was given did you hear the firing?
A. I got back of this house before I heard any firing.
Q. What distance was you from the crowd, where you stood, when the command was given, when the firing began?
A. I suppose I would be a distance about forty yards, before I heard any firing.
Q. After the command to fire was given, you retreated to the oil-house?
A. I got the oil-house between me and the Philadelphia troops.
Q. How far was that from where you stood when the command was given?
A. I think it was forty yards from where I stood on the track.
Q. How long after you got to the oil-house, did you hear the firing?
A. I could hardly tell--it was a very short time. I don't think you could count a minute.
Q. You think you were not behind the oil-house one minute before the firing began?
A. Until I heard the firing.
Q. You started as soon as ever you heard the command to fire?
A. Just as soon as I could get off the track. As soon as I heard the command "fire," I commenced my way back in this crowd on the track, just as quick as I could get off and run.
Q. About how long did it take you to get through that crowd and behind the oil-house?
A. Didn't take me very long. I was not very long getting there, I know that.
Q. A minute?
A. I do not think I was a minute getting off the track. I was over a minute getting behind the oil-house.
Q. You were there not over a minute before you heard the firing?
A. I am sure of that.
Q. Do you think it was two minutes after the order to fire was given, before the firing began?
A. I think so; yes, sir.
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. Where did these stones and missiles come from?
A. The things I saw thrown were right from back of what we call a switch-tender's shanty. There is a little shanty we call the switch-tender's shanty. It was parties standing back of that--I could see it from where I was standing--most of them that were thrown.
Q. How much of a shower of stones was it?
A. There was no shower. There was not even a slight storm. It was not what I would call a shower of stones.
Q. Only two or three stones thrown?
A. There might have been--I guess I saw six or seven. There were lumps of mud and pieces of wood. I do not think I saw a stone. I did see mud--that is, hard mud seemed to be taken from the side of the hill.
Q. Did you see one of those soldiers fall, in the ranks that marched down there?
A. Yes, sir; there was one of them fell, and they picked him up, and took him into the hospital grounds. He was sun-struck, or something of that kind.
Q. How do you know he was sun-struck?
A. That is what some of his comrades claimed. Before they got to Twenty-eighth street this man dropped. He seemed to be a Jew, from his looks. The boys used the expression: "Let the damned Jew lay there." The railroaders got water for him, and bathed him.
Q. Have you ever told anybody that you heard the firing there, and heard the command given to fire?
A. I was a witness in the criminal court, in the murder case against General Pearson.
Q. Have you told anybody outside that you heard the command to fire given?
A. I believe I did.
Q. Have you told persons you heard General Pearson give the command to fire?
A. Not in direct words.
Q. Have you not stated several times, on the street corners, to different parties, that you heard General Pearson give the command to fire?
A. No, sir; I do not think I ever did--not in those words.
Q. Did you ever state to anybody that you had heard the commanders of companies give the command to fire, before stating it here?
A. I do not know. I forget exactly just what words my testimony was in the court.
Q. I am not asking you what testimony you gave in the court. Have you ever stated to any person before to-day, outside of the court, or anywhere, that you heard officers of companies give the command to fire?
A. I believe I have. Yes, sir.
Q. And you have stated that you heard General Pearson give the command to fire?
A. Not in those words.
Q. What do you mean by "Not in those words?"
A. I think the order to fire emanated from General Pearson, but I never said, in direct words, that General Pearson gave the order to fire.
Q. It was only a supposition of yours?
A. No; it was from the remark that I have sworn--I heard General Pearson give this--my remark was that General Pearson had turned around to other officers, with whom I am not acquainted, and used the expression, "Your men to fire;" but I did not say he had coupled those words with "Order your men to fire."
Q. Did you hear him say those words?
A. I have sworn. Yes, sir.
Q. To whom?
A. As I told you, I was not acquainted with the officers to whom he addressed himself. He was speaking to parties in gray uniform. He was standing almost immediately in his rear.
Q. He said, "Your men to fire?"
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How far were you from him?
A. I suppose I would be--I could hardly judge the distance--I would take it to be about ten feet or so.
Q. Did he speak it in a low tone?
A. It was not very loud. It was not a low tone.
Q. Was there a good deal of noise and confusion about at that time?
A. Oh, considerable, just in certain localities.
Q. The crowd was boisterous, were they not?
A. To a certain extent.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You did not hear any command given to fire, positively, by General Pearson?
A. No, sir; I never said so.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. How do you account for the long interval of time intervening between the command to fire and the firing.
A. I could not say.
Q. Did they load after the command to fire was given?
A. I could not say.
Q. Did you see them load?
A. No, sir; I did not see them fire.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. There was nothing preparatory at all, to this word fire.
A. No, sir; I thought it very strange myself, at the time the command to fire was given. They were not even ready.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You say you heard General Pearson speak to those officers, and said something about firing. You do not know whether he said not allow the men to fire, or to fire?
A. No, sir.
Q. How long after he made this remark to those officers did the command to fire come from those officers, and did it come from those same officers he was talking to?
A. I could not say whether it came from the same officers he was talking to. There were about fifteen or twenty of them in the crowd. I cannot say who he was addressing. It was started from that crowd, and carried by others still further down the line.
Q. How long after that was that order given to fire?
A. I do not think it was a minute. I cannot recollect the time.
Q. How far was General Pearson from the place when he had this conversation with those officers--how far was he from the position where those officers did give the command to fire?
A. I can hardly know.
Q. The word passed along the line?
A. It was passed by parties in front.
Q. How far did it pass until it got to those officers that did give the command?
A. It did not pass any further than, I suppose, seven or eight feet.
Q. The officers were pretty thick, were they not?
A. Yes, sir; very thick.
By Mr. Means:
Q. General Pearson appeared to stand at the head of the column?
A. He stood in the rear of the two companies that were charging up the track between the two lines and the side of the track.
Q. It appears from your testimony that the firing was sometime after the command to fire was given.
A. Yes; it was sometime. I had time enough to get away.
Q. Do you think that this firing was in consequence of the order to fire?
A. I did not wait to see anything about that. As soon as I heard the word "fire," I thought that was enough for me.
Q. Have you ever had any military experience in the army?
A. No, sir; never in the army. I served two or three years in the militia.
Q. Ever practiced firing any in the militia?
A. Some little.
Q. How long after the command to fire was given do you discharge your piece?
A. If in position to fire, we generally pulled as quick as we could get it off.
Q. When this firing began, was it a volley, or was it a scattering fire?
A. It was kind of mixed, I thought. I did not think it was what I considered a volley from a number of men that were present.
Q. Was it a scattering fire that lasted some little time?
A. The firing was kept up. Scattering fire was kept up for three or four minutes.
Q. The first fire?
A. The first volley, though not what I consider a volley from the number of men that were present. It sounded more like a volley than a scattering fire--the first fire. After that it was a scattering fire.
Q. There appeared to be a number of simultaneous discharges of muskets?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there any one else present there where you stood that heard and saw what you said, or was likely to see and hear?
A. There were plenty there that could have seen.
Q. Any one that you know?
A. No, sir: no person that I know. I was not paying much attention to who was standing around me. No person that I knew of was in that locality at that time.
Q. Did you see the arms loaded at any time?
A. No, sir.
* * * * *
J. G. McConnell, _sworn_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. I reside in the Nineteenth ward, city of Pittsburgh.
Q. What is your profession?
A. Practicing law.
Q. State whether you were at or in the vicinity of the elevator on the 22d of July last, about the time it was burned?
A. I was, sir.
Q. What time did you arrive at that place?
A. I arrived there just about the time that the fire was taking hold of the elevator.
Q. Just about the time the fire was taking hold of the elevator?
A. Just about the time the inside of the elevator----
Q. Were there any policemen there at the time?
A. No, sir; I did not see any.
Q. Did any come there?
A. Not that I saw.
Q. Did you send for any?
A. Not at that time, sir.
Q. Afterwards did you?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see who set the elevator on fire?
A. I did not.
Q. And how it caught?
A. No, sir; but after the elevator was on fire. The person who gave you that information has not given you the correct information. After the elevator was on fire some little time, I was standing on Eleventh street, probably halfway between Penn and Liberty. While standing there, a man came up alongside of me and stood there. I did not say anything, and directly there was another man joined him. The first one was a short thick-set man, with a light colored moustache and imperial and light hair; a man I should say weighing about one hundred and sixty-five pounds, probably about five feet eight inches in height. The person who joined him was somewhat taller, nearly six feet in height, and they got into a conversation. They were evidently well acquainted with each other; and then the short thick man made a remark. Says he, "The elevator makes a very handsome fire." I spoke up and said I thought it was a very great shame and outrage that property should be destroyed, and this man turned around and said, "What is it your business?" I told him it was my business to a certain extent, as I was solicitor for the elevator company. I said to him that I thought the firemen ought to turn their hose on it. I then went to see Mr. Evans, and asked him if he could turn the hose on, and he informed me that it was impossible to do so. He had been deterred by the mob, and they had cut his hose, or threatened to cut his hose, and some man had put a revolver to his head; that he had two streams on, but had to take them off. I walked down pretty close to Penn avenue and these two men were still standing there. I stopped opposite them and they were still in conversation. The short thick-set man turned around to the other one and in a whisper made this remark to him, "Has the Pan Handle bridge been set fire to yet?" The other one says, "No, I think not." He said, "Somebody ought to send a party to do that;" and I then, left and went down towards Wayne street, went down to the river, went down the river, came up towards Fifth avenue, and on Thursday or Friday subsequent to the destruction of the elevator, on my way out home, in the evening, about half past four o'clock, passing the ruins of the Union Depot hotel, I saw this man standing there--this short thick-set man. There was a policeman standing on the corner. I went up to the policeman and pointed this man out and said, "That man, I think, was a ring leader in the riot. If you will arrest him, I will make information against him." The policeman did not reply, but walked up towards the avenue.
Q. Do you know the policeman?
A. No, sir; I did not take notice of his number.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you see the grain elevator set on fire?
A. No, sir; I was standing out in front, and from where I stood the burning apparently began at the back side, towards the Pan Handle side of the road, towards the Washington street bridge.
Q. How many policemen did you see around the vicinity at that time?
A. Did not see any.
Q. The only one you saw was on this bridge?
A. I did not see any at all that day--that evening.
Q. When was it you saw this policeman?
A. Thursday or Friday, subsequent to the destruction.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you make any report of the policeman who refused?
A. No, sir; only to the officers of the elevator company.
Q. Did they make any effort to find out who the policeman was, afterwards?
A. I do not know, sir--that is, I made no official report to the company. I just reported it to one or two of the officers, and their instructions were, if I recognized the party, to report it, and if I recognized the party I saw on Monday evening to report it.
Q. You made no report of that policeman to the mayor of his refusal to act?
A. No, sir; if I had known his number I certainly should; but I did not know his number.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You did not hear enough of the conversation between those men, to find out whether there was an organization?
A. None, whatever. I did not hear sufficient of that. I believe that is all the conversation I heard in regard to the matter. There was a remark made that rather implied I had better get out of the way, and I stood over by the engine.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. These men were both strangers to you, the short man and the large one?
A. They were men who were working. I evidently took them to be mill men about the city here. I do not think they were strangers in the city at all, sir.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Were they railroad men?
A. I do not think so. I could not judge from their appearance. Just from their appearance, I took them to be men working about some of the mills or about some heavy employment in the city. I judged that more from their general appearance and from their hands. I noticed one man put up his fist. He had a very large heavy fist, and it looked like a work-man's fist.
Q. That was Thursday or Friday subsequent to the burning, that you met this other man?
A. Yes; Thursday or Friday?
Q. What time of day was it you met him?
A. I think it was about half past four in the afternoon. I left my office to go home, and it took me, I suppose, eight or nine minutes to walk up to where the Union Depot hotel stood at that time. Probably I stood around there ten minutes looking at the ruins, and it was just as I was moving off--probably it was about five o'clock.
* * * * *
Doctor James B. Murdock, _sworn_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Please state where you reside?
A. I reside on Centre avenue, No. 99. Up over the hill from the railroad--over that side of the hill--back from it.
Q. A practicing physician in the city of Pittsburgh?
A. Practicing physician and surgeon.
Q. State what knowledge you have of the late riots?