Part 53

Q. You say that you acted in attempting to keep and preserve the peace here and keep down violence until superseded by the military?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is not the military always in subjection to the civil authorities?

A. The Constitution says so, but the facts of the case are otherwise.

Q. Had you not entire authority and control, at all times, within the limits and jurisdiction of the city?

A. Not when the sheriff comes to the front. He is the chief peace officer of the county, and has the whole county at his beck and nod. The mayor is simply the city.

Q. Is not it the duty of other head officers to coöperate with the sheriff?

A. That depends upon circumstances. I could not coöperate with the sheriff, because the matter was under control of men who were acting entirely different from any way that I would have acted in the case, and I could not assume responsibility in a state of facts that I believe would lead to what was the ultimate result.

Q. Is not your power as magistrate, within the city limits, identical with those of the sheriff?

A. They are.

Q. What hindered you from acting then?

A. Because the sheriff took possession of the case, and called upon the troops. Had the sheriff come to consult me, instead of going to the Pennsylvania Railroad Company's office, and assumed control in calling for troops, the result would have been different. But I was thrown aside. I didn't suit.

Q. You were asked to go up to the scene of the disturbance, were you not?

A. No, sir.

Q. Didn't Mr. Watt ask you?

A. Not that I know of.

Q. Did he at ten o'clock, on Thursday, ask you to go to the scene of the disturbance?

A. He did.

Q. And you refused to go?

A. Yes, for the reason that I told you, that he asked for ten men, and I knew no reason--when he got all the men he asked for, and it was only ten men--I didn't see any reason why the mayor should go up there.

Q. Did you go up to the scene of the disturbance at any time during Friday?

A. No, sir.

Q. Friday night?

A. No, sir.

Q. Saturday?

A. No, sir.

Q. Saturday night?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. At what time?

A. Well, I think when I got out there, it must have been ten o'clock.

Q. What did you find there?

A. I found a howling mob, many of them armed.

Q. Did you know that this firing was going on all this time between ten o'clock Thursday and ten o'clock Saturday night, when you went to the scene of the disturbance?

A. I knew nothing of the disturbance at all. I heard that the soldiers had fired upon the crowd.

Q. You knew that there were crowds there, didn't you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You knew they prevented freights from running?

A. I did not.

Q. You know that they prevented freight trains from going out?

A. No, sir; I believe the fact is otherwise. I believe the fact is that after the police got possession of a train, on Thursday afternoon, that the engineer deserted, and that the Pennsylvania Railroad Company didn't attempt to put another freight out--that is what I heard.

Q. That is hearsay, isn't it?

A. That is, and I guess it is very true, too.

Q. You had come out then to see?

A. No, sir; I didn't.

Q. On Friday, did you increase your police force any?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you increase them any on Friday night?

A. No, sir.

Q. On Saturday?

A. No, sir.

Q. Saturday night?

A. Saturday night, when we heard of the shooting I directed the officers to go round and inform the proprietors of the gun shops of what had taken place, and to put themselves in a state of defense, and to get their arms out of the road; for they might be assailed, and directed the chief of police to insert an advertisement in the Sunday papers, calling upon the discharged policemen to appear at the mayor's office for duty. My idea of that was that there might be a necessity for these men performing police duty in the streets. I had no idea, until at that time, that where the city and county authorities had a thousand men under their command, in the Twelfth ward, that any policemen would be required or needed on the property of the Pennsylvania railroad, but I did think there would be very great excitement, and it would be necessary to have a force on the streets, not knowing what would happen, and I directed a call to be made for an immediate meeting of the police committee, on Sunday morning.

Q. Were the day force placed back on duty on Sunday morning?

A. Let me go on, as nigh as I can, in a chronological order of events. My mind, as to hours, after I got in the Twelfth ward and saw the state of affairs there, is a blank. I could not give you an hour from that time up to Monday morning, but I was on deck all that time. I went up to the Twelfth ward, saw a crowd there, and mixed in among them. Had a talk with quite a number of them, and tried to dissuade them from acts of violence and disorder, but I was talking to a lot of crazy men. Words were nowhere. Somewhere, as nigh as I can guess, I was in front of the Twelfth ward station-house, immediately above Twenty-sixth street or Penn avenue, and I was too late. It struck me then that there must be some cars set on fire. I left there and went up to the corner of Liberty and Twenty-fifth street, and saw a car on fire immediately above Twenty-fifth street. I looked at the situation, and turned back to the corner of Twenty-eighth and Penn streets, and I there met a policeman, who I think was Mr. Scribner. Says I, "Has the box been pulled?" Says he, "No; the crowd won't let us, but the alarm has been sent down to the police telegraph." I then waited there a very, very long time, expecting the fire department to come. When I stayed there long enough, and hearing nothing of the fire department, I came to the conclusion that the message sent by the police telegraph had failed. By this time Alderman Barclay was along side of a police officer, and a large man, whom I knew by sight, but not by name, and I said to the alderman, says I, "Can't we send an alarm in on this box." The alderman said, "We can try it." He went, I think, into the drug store and got a key, and four of us went to the box, and nobody interfered with us--there were very few up at that corner, and the alderman opened the box, and this man, I believe, he pulled it. We waited another long time--a very long time--and heard nothing of the fire department. Then I began to make inquiries, and I ascertained that a portion of the fire department had come up Penn avenue, and for reasons satisfactory to themselves, had stopped immediately below the Independence engine house, on Penn avenue, somewhere about Twenty-first or Twentieth street--I cannot give you the number--and that they had been stopped there, and were afraid to go on. I do not know what reason they had--they had some reason. I then went to the station-house; but, by the by, I may say here, when I left the lower end of the city the mob was still going through the streets, and I should have stated before, chronologically--what I forgot--that I issued orders by telegraph, and the men met at eight o'clock in the evening, at the station-house, after having lit the lamps.

Q. Saturday evening?

A. Saturday evening. I ordered all the policemen from the first, second, fourth, seventh, eighth, ninth districts, to leave their station-houses, and to come at once to the central station, as soon as the men would come to the station-house. These men came between eight and nine o'clock, most of them nine o'clock, may be later. Some of them had to walk a distance of two miles, and they were put on duty immediately through the streets, and when I thought that I could leave things safely to the direction of the police, I went to the Twelfth ward to see how things were standing. That was the position of matters. When I found that the fire department had not or could not come, I went to the station-house--the Twelfth ward station-house--and telegraphed down to the central station to send up all the police that could be spared. That was done, and as these policemen came up, two or three or four or five or six, &c.--there was a great quantity of stealing going on.

Q. How many policemen came up?

A. I will get at that in a few minutes. As they came there was a great deal of stealing going on, and as fast as they came to the station-house, I started them out on to Penn street, to arrest the people that were carrying off goods. They continued at that work until such times as I thought I had enough policemen to assist the firemen, at which time possibly I may have had fifty or sixty, may be forty. I do not suppose I had over forty or fifty. When I thought I had enough to protect the firemen, I told officer Coulston to go to the fire department and tell them that we now had police sufficient, I thought, to protect them, and to come on, and we would do the best we could. Coulston started off with that message. After a lapse of sufficient time he came back and told me he had informed the parties in charge, of my message, that they replied to them that they would not move until they were ordered by the chief of the fire department and the fire commissioners, and I supposed, that at that time I may have had, all told, fifty or sixty--about fifty policemen--the fifth district and the sixth district had not been called in. The fifth district and the Lawrenceville district immediately adjoining the point where the Allegheny Valley railroad runs through, they were not called in because I supposed they would have as much to do in their own districts. The sixth district was not called in because Torrens station and the stock-yards were in that district, and I thought it altogether likely that the police of these two districts would be wanted to take care of things there for the reason I have given you.

Q. How long did you keep those policemen there in the Twelfth ward?

A. They were kept there until their regular time of going on duty.

Q. What time was that?

A. Well, the regular time was six o'clock, but they were there long after that.

Q. Sunday morning?

A. Yes, sir. I will tell you about that. I stayed up there until somewhere in the neighborhood of daylight. The soldiers, I had supposed, that had taken refuge in the houses there, that their strategy was to stay until daylight would come, and then they would come out upon the railroad track and take possession. That is what I supposed--nobody communicated to me what they would do.

Q. Did you make any effort to communicate with General Brinton or General Pearson?

A. No, sir; I did not. I thought those gentlemen had the matter in their own hands, and didn't want any advice from me; and about daylight, or thereabouts, I came down town, and somewhere in the neighborhood of seven o'clock, or thereabouts, it might have been a little after seven--might have been half an hour, but I just name that at random, approximate it--I received a telegraphic dispatch from the Twelfth ward station that the soldiers were on Penn avenue, marching past the Twelfth ward station-house. That struck me that it was an admirable strategic movement. I thought they had come off the railroad property with their full strength, five hundred or six hundred strong, to march through the streets, to intimidate the crowd, and I was highly delighted at that idea, and I requested Mr. Davis to go and get a buggy that we might go up and witness the effect of it. He came with the buggy, and we both started out, and after we got a considerable distance up town, in the neighborhood of the Twelfth ward, I received information that these men were retreating from the city--six hundred armed men. It sent my heart down about my thighs. I could not understand it. I could not believe it. Then the idea struck me that these men were not retreating from the city, but they were following a line of march by which they had two roads to go to East Liberty. I thought they were going either one of those two roads to join the forces out there, and possibly to come in together. When I got as far as the car stables, in Lawrenceville, just about Forty-second street, I think, I bethought myself it was hardly worth while to make that horse pull two hundred and ten pounds unnecessarily, and I stopped the buggy and got out. I told Mr. Davis to go on after the troops, and not to return until he knew where they had gone to. They might have gone by Stanton avenue to East Liberty, from the upper side of the cemetery, or they might have gone by the Morning side road up to the Sharpsburg bridge. I told him to go on, and not give it up until he could locate them, and then to come back to the Twelfth ward station-house, and report to me, and I then got in a street car at the car stables and came down to the Twelfth ward station-house. Then I telegraphed down to the central station to detain all the police that were there, and send them to the Twelfth ward, and I got tired waiting on Mr. Davis, and knowing that the police committee was to meet, I went over to where the firemen were at work, for the purpose of seeing the chief engineer, and concert with him some plan of action by which I could assist them. I could not find the chief engineer, high nor low. I asked the firemen where he was, and they didn't know, and I took that the work upon the fire--this was not on the railroad property, but on the opposite side of Liberty street where they were at work. I thought the work was ineffective, and I spoke to the firemen about it, and they told me the reason of it was that the water in the basin was low. I thought that a little strange, because it was a rule with the water department, with which I had been connected a great many years, to always have it full on Sunday, but I determined to see about that. Failing to see the chief engineer, I could not waste my time in hunting him, and I came down town. On my way down, I met the superintendent of the water-works, and I says to him, "Jim, the firemen complain they cannot work effectively up in the Twelfth ward, because there is no water in the basin," I think that is the way I put it to him. Says he "I think they are mistaken; the basin is full of water." I think it was at Eleventh street I met him. I came down to the central station, and, on the pavement, I met the secretary of the fire commission, Mr. Case. I says to him, "Frank, the firemen tell me that there is no water in the basin"--I meant a small quantity of water in the basin--"I saw Jim Atkinson on my way down, and he tells me the basin is full. You take my buggy at once, and go up and tell them that the basin is full, that they need not be afraid of the supply of water, and you leave the buggy at Rosewell's stables." He departed, and I suppose gave my message.

Q. What time did the fire commence on Saturday night?

A. It is a guess with me, but I think it must have been about eleven o'clock. I don't think I am far wrong.

Q. You stayed there during the night?

A. Yes; I was going through the crowd during the whole night.

Q. When you got fifty policemen, did you make any effort with those policemen to drive the crowd from the cars that were burning?

A. No, sir; I did not.

Q. Your efforts were simply confined to arresting men that were carrying off plunder?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Your policemen armed?

A. Some are and some are not.

Q. They are all armed with maces, I suppose?

A. Yes; they all have maces.

Q. Why didn't you make some effort to stop the burning?

A. Because, in my judgment, it could not be done.

Q. How many men would it have taken to have stopped that that night?

A. Lord knows! I can't tell. I think it would have taken a good many. Near a thousand men cooped themselves up in some houses, and cooped all those men up in those houses after having done the firing. It was yielding to the mob. It was just saying plainly, that the mob was stronger than the soldiers, and that forty or fifty policemen, who had never been in a disturbance of this nature or kind, would simply have been suicidal?

Q. After coming to the central station, Sunday morning, did you return again?

A. Yes, sir; I did.

Q. What hour?

A. That I could not tell you. As I told you before, I took no note of time. It was after I had seen the police committee, and had talked with some of the citizens, with regard to a citizens' meeting, I went up on.

Q. During the day, on Sunday, how many policemen had you in the vicinity of the riot?

A. That I can't tell. I did not suppose, that all told, so far as I could guess or know, there were not more than thirty or forty.

Q. Did you make any demand to recruit your police--demand upon men to serve on the police?

A. That had been done by advertisement in the Sunday morning papers, by the chief of police?

Q. Did you issue an order calling on men, demanding them to join your police force?

A. Which, on Sunday?

Q. At any time?

A. Nothing, except that on Saturday morning for the police.

Q. It was in the shape of a request, was it not?

A. Yes; it was an order.

Q. It was not a command such as would be a command under the laws of the Commonwealth?

A. I don't think it was. I didn't see it. I didn't look for it.

Q. It was placed in the papers by your clerk?

A. By the chief of police.

Q. When you went to the scene of the riot on Saturday night, did you use efforts yourself to suppress the riot or stop it?

A. I went into the crowd and talked with them, but I might as well have talked to the moon.

Q. Who did you talk with?

A. There were several that I talked to that I did not know. I only met one man that I did know, and he had been a lieutenant of police.

Q. He was engaged in rioting?

A. He was there with the crowd and very muddled.

Q. How long before that had he been lieutenant of police?

A. He had been lieutenant of police, I suppose, as near as I can judge, some three weeks before.

Q. And discharged under the order discharging the day force?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you meet any other persons that had been members of the police force?

A. No; not in that position?

Q. What replies did you get from the men when admonishing them to desist?

A. Everybody was filled with the idea that the troops the citizens causelessly, and that had excited the indignation and made men wild. It was a fearful sentiment on Saturday night.

Q. I understood you to state that the reason why you did not go to the Twelfth ward during the Friday and Saturday before, was that you had been superseded by the military?

A. Yes; and because I was perfectly satisfied that the influence that controlled would be disastrous, and that I could not prevent it, and I was not going to permit myself to be compromised by it.

Q. You did go to the scene on Saturday night?

A. I did.

Q. Or rather on Sunday?

A. I did.

Q. Had you gone there on Thursday, or Friday, or Saturday morning, and made use of the police that you had under your command, could you not have prevented the disturbance?

A. Permit me to say again that it was impossible for me to have any connection with the men who had charge of that, because I could not control them. They are men that would not listen to me, and that I could have no influence with.

Q. Whom do you refer to?

A. I refer to the leading officers of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company.

Q. You had control of your police force, hadn't you?

A. I had.

Q. You have control of the affairs of the city.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And the organization of the police?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You could have control of the force--you are the peace officer of the city?

A. Yes, sir; and there is the sheriff.

Q. Why did not you then assert your rights as peace officer?

A. Because I recognized the fact that I have no right to come in conflict with the sheriff and the military. I was utterly hostile to their movements and to their plan of operations, and I felt satisfied that it could have no other end than the end that was reached. I, surely, under those circumstances, would have been of no more use than a painted ship upon a painted sea. They would not listen to me.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. Did you go to them and talk with them, or did you try and see whether you could cooperate with them in any manner?

A. No, sir; I knew the men. That was enough for me.

Q. Do I understand you to say that there was an antagonism between you and the sheriff of the county?

A. It could not be otherwise in this matter, because they had adopted a plan of action that I could have nothing at all to do with.

Q. Were you called on first by the railroad officials?

A. Yes; and gave them all they wanted, and gave them so many men--I will prove to you that they said they didn't want them.

Q. You were asked to go to the scene of the disturbance?

A. Yes; we have talked that matter over several times.

Q. Did you receive any communication from Mr. Scott, the solicitor of the road, on Thursday?

A. I did not.

Q. On Friday?

A. I did not.

Q. Did he make a request to you that you would order the saloons of the city closed?

A. I got a document on Saturday afternoon--I don't know, some time on Saturday it was, according to my recollection--it was by Mr. Thaw, I think by Mr. McCullough, and I think by Mr. Quay, and I think by Mr. Latta, requesting me to request the saloons to be closed, which request, on my part, was complied with.

Q. At what time?

A. That I could not say. I had no right to compel the closing of them--none whatever. I could only request.

Q. You had a riot and disorder in the city then. Do I understand that you had no right to order the saloons closed?

A. No, sir; I have no right to order them closed, under any circumstances, except upon Sunday or upon election days. Then the laws forbid them to be open.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Did you have any knowledge of the disturbance, and the extent of the disturbance during Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, out in the vicinity of the Union depot, on the railroad?

A. I did not know of any disturbance occurring.

Q. During any of those days?

A. None of those days, except what I told you as having occurred on Thursday. I had reason to believe that there was no disturbance from Thursday afternoon until Saturday afternoon.

Q. Didn't you know of a large collection of people in that vicinity?

A. Oh, yes, sir. I knew they were coming there--went there to see the soldiers--what was going on. People went there as they would to a county fair or a boat race, to see what was to be seen. Men with their families, women with their children, even children in their arms, went there from curiosity.

Q. Don't you know that there was a large crowd there before the military arrived?

A. No, sir.

Q. No knowledge of that?

A. No knowledge of what we would call a large crowd. I know there was quite a crowd there on Thursday. I know from what I am told, there was a crowd there at the time of the alleged disturbance with Mr. Watt and Mr. McCall.

Q. Hadn't you been told by citizens and others, that there was a large crowd there--likely to be trouble?

A. No, sir.

Q. Hadn't any idea?

A. I had an idea that there was to be trouble, because when the military came out they were subject to the thousand contingencies that would produce disturbance.

Q. Had you any intimation of trouble before the military were ordered out?

A. As much as I told you occurred on Friday, after the arrest by the police of this man who was alleged to have struck Mr. Watt. Think there was no disturbance after that during the whole of Thursday night, and to Friday morning, when the police were dismissed.

Q. Did you go to any trouble to ascertain the extent of that disturbance, on the first disturbance on Thursday?

A. Of course, I knew the extent of it from what the police told me.

Q. You were shortly informed of what was going on--made all efforts necessary to ascertain?

A. It came to me without an effort.

Q. Didn't require any effort to ascertain?

A. No, sir; I inquired what going on, and ascertained what was going on.