Part 42

A. I had no conversation on the subject, because I was engaged and busy on Saturday, and was not alarmed in regard to this. Mr. Park's manufacturing establishment was in the immediate vicinity of the trouble, and you might say he was in it. He was located right in it, and he was there, and I think what I say in regard to that, will be the testimony of every manufacturer in the city. I believe if the thing had been left until Monday or Tuesday, that the probabilities are that men would be generally about their employment at one thing or another, that there might have been no burning here at all. We might have had trouble and loss of life, and things of that kind. Why I say I think there was an organization, when I went home on Saturday night, coming up after dark, they were expecting this train in. These men certainly knew that train was coming with soldiers, and they were prepared to meet them. They were orderly--a quarter of a mile below, at the bridge--there appeared to be entirely too much order for a riot. When there is a riot, they generally do things up very quickly, without regard to who is in the way. These men were orderly and systematic.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. This train you speak of--was that train from Erie?

A. I think that was the Erie train. Mr. McCullough told me he expected that train in. I was informed that they had no ammunition or anything of that kind.

Q. These men you conversed with gave as a reason for their strike that the wages were so low they could not live?

A. That was the general complaint.

Q. Do you know what they were actually getting?

A. I did know, and I had it from the railroad officials--I had it from them, but I have forgotten what it was.

Q. Were any of them getting less than a dollar a day--trainmen?

A. I think they were paid by the trip, but I do not recollect that any of them were getting less than that. I would not speak positively in regard to that. It may be possible. I have a memorandum of that in my pocket-book. I never expected to be called before a committee, or I would have saved some of these things that I had. It may be I have something here that will enable me to answer that question.

Q. If you find it hereafter you can send it to us, and we can attach it to your testimony.

A. It was a copy of a telegraph--you asked me a question; it would have answered it. It was a copy of a telegraph I had sent to Mr. McCullough on the subject, and his reply to it, but I think that, supposing that the thing was ended, my impression is that I have destroyed it.

Q. Have you anything else to communicate, Mr. Bennett?

A. Nothing; but I would bear testimony to the fact that the citizens of Pittsburgh appeared to be anxious to do everything they could to put down this riot, and there was no sympathy with the rioters--none whatever.

Q. You had a good deal to do in raising the force of citizens to put down the riot?

A. I had, perhaps. The first move, I told you, was on Sunday. A good many of my most intimate acquaintances were among the rolling mills, and quite a large number of them were out of the city. I sent for Mr. Park.

Q. Did you meet with any opposition in your efforts to raise the men?

A. Not a single instance. Upon the contrary, every man I saw was anxious to do anything, and were willing and did go up there at the risk of their lives, to do everything they could do, and no man I met anywhere at all, among my own acquaintances, but what were ready to do anything they would deem in reason, to try to stop it; and I think it was stopped by the citizens at last. I was not present, but from what I heard afterwards, the citizens prevented the burning of the Fort Wayne depot.

Q. Was there any move by the citizens prior to Sunday morning?

A. Not that I know of. I have no knowledge of any--no recollection of any now. It was early Sunday morning that they set fire to things in the first place, and the citizens appeared to be completely paralyzed. I saw men coming along, carrying provisions, bacon, hams, and articles that they had taken from the cars they had broken open--carrying them away back two or three miles into the country, and I saw them walking along the streets, and it appeared to me that people were afraid to say a word to them. They were alarmed--they did not know what to make of it. It appeared to come upon them like a clap of thunder--they were unprepared for it in any way. I never saw men labor more earnestly, and labor harder to try to do their whole duty than that citizens' committee did. It was through their individual efforts that there was an additional police, and it was by private subscription to pay these men, that they were put upon the force. Our city was in a helpless condition, and these bad men, of which we have a large number around the city--they knew exactly what the police force was, better than we did.

Q. Did you know the police force had been reduced in the city, and, if so, when were you informed of that fact?

A. I had no knowledge that our city was in so helpless a condition. I was amazed when I heard it.

Q. Was it known to the business men--I mean generally--that your city was in such a condition, in regard to the police force?

A. I do not think they generally understood the matter. They might have been under the impression that there was a reduction of police, but so few----

Q. Was it the subject of conversation when it became known?

A. Of course it was, and the very moment it was discovered, they sought to apply the remedy by making contributions of money themselves, to have the force put on, and agreeing to pay for it.

Q. Did you have any talk with the mayor yourself in relation to that subject?

A. 1 did, at his office. He told me then that he had no power to do anything, but expressed a willingness and a desire to do anything he could, and I do not think that any suggestion I made to him, he ever refused to do anything it was in his power to do.

Q. What day was that?

A. I had a conversation with him on Sunday, and again on Monday, and as I met him at different times, I would have a talk with the mayor.

Q. Was it known to you that the mayor had full authority and control over the police, to increase the number of police, or to call out--was it known to you that he had the same authority that the sheriff had in calling out the police?

A. No, sir; it was not.

Q. Did he make any proclamation calling for police?

A. He made some proclamation. I cannot tell you what it was--do not recollect what it was.

Q. Did you ever examine to see what powers are given to the mayor by your city charter?

A. I did not in regard to Allegheny City. After Sunday, I was more with Mayor Phillips, and more on that side than I was on this. I believe Colonel Scott telegraphed to me himself, and said that they would commence laying the tracks, if their men would be protected, and I went to Mr. Shinn and got him to send an answer to him that they would be, and I would lay the matter before the committee the next morning. Immediately on the committee convening, I brought the matter before them, and the committee answered Colonel Scott that they would be protected. I went out of the committee myself, and started up to meet Mr. Pitcairn at the office of Mr. Layng, and stated to Mr. Layng in regard to that telegram, and my own impression that they should put the men on to work to feel their way, and if they were interfered with to withdraw them, that I believed that before night would come that they would have more men than they would know what to do with, and that was the result. I spoke of being out on Sunday and not seeing any of the officials of the railroad at all. I think they did right. I do not think it would have been prudent for them to be there. I advised those I knew to keep away. You could not tell to what extent this excitement would lead a man, nor you could not tell how bad men were. They might have been seriously injured, if not killed, if any one of them had gone into a crowd of that kind.

Q. Would the presence of the railroad officials have tended to exasperate the crowd, do you think?

A. Yes, sir. I don't think it would have been safe for them to have been there. I think it would have exasperated them.

Q. Where was Adjutant Latta during the day--Sunday?

A. I think he was at the Monongahela house, with Cassatt--I think he was there.

Q. Until what hour?

A. I was introduced to him when I took Mr. Cassatt across to Allegheny City. It must have been between eleven and twelve o'clock. I left him there, and I was not back to the Monongahela house after that. I learned they had gone down the river to Beaver. I think General Latta was along. There was a number of gentlemen there. Mr. Cassatt was anxious in regard to the soldiers that they had. I did not know the condition of them, nor did he--how these men that had come from Philadelphia were. He appeared to be under the impression that they had got out, and had neither provision nor ammunition, and I said that I could fix a way that they could have the supplies--that there were parties in Allegheny who would attend to that. I went down on Monday to Mr. Ray, and he sent them out provisions, and told me afterwards that they had removed their head-quarters, and he had followed them up to Blairsville, and had delivered them cooked provisions.

Q. Who is Mr. Ray?

A. He is a grocer on Liberty street.

Q. In Allegheny City?

A. No, sir; Pittsburgh.

Q. Would it have been prudent for the Adjutant General to have remained in the city during the day, Sunday?

A. To have gone into the crowd?

Q. Yes; or remained in the city?

A. I do not think there would have been a hair of his head harmed.

Q. Would it have been prudent for the other State officials?

A. If they had remained at the Monongahela house they would not have been disturbed.

Q. If the Adjutant General had gone to the scene of the riot, would he have been disturbed?

A. I think there would have been danger. Any man went in at the peril of his life--any officer went in single-handed, alone.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. You have a very extensive knowledge of what transpired here during the riots. I want to know whether, in your opinion, there was a disposition on the part of the city and county authorities to protect property and to suppress the riot. If so, could they have done so?

A. I have not any doubt in my own mind, but the----

Q. Not the citizens. I am speaking of the city and county officials?

A. In regard to the county officials, I was not with them. So far as my knowledge goes, I was acquainted, at the time, from talking as I would with Mr. Barr, or Slagle, or any of the gentlemen, and I believe they were all anxious to try to prevent any loss of life or property, and do all that was in their power.

Q. And could they have done so, if they had made a vigorous effort to do so--protect the property and prevent the lawlessness?

A. After the riot got started they could not have done it. If we had the full force we would have only had about two hundred policemen, and they would not have been able to have done very much, and the sheriff could not have done very much by calling upon the people and telling them that he wanted them to stop. Nothing but imperiling their lives. They would keep away from him. I do not think he had much chance of doing anything.

Q. It is only a matter of opinion?

A. You could readily understand that those men, with the force that they could command, would be small in comparison. After the firing I have no doubt the report that there was ten or twenty killed, where there was one, did create a fearful excitement, and I do not think any sheriff of any county could have done anything at all that would have stopped it, after it had once got started as it had on Sunday morning.

By Mr. Englebert:

Q. Did you take any active steps prior to Saturday evening?

A. No, sir; I did not really feel very uneasy about the matter until Saturday afternoon, when I learned--I was not taking much interest in the matter, and I got very much this way--the railroad people, this was a matter they were tending to, but that there was going to be any riot--there might be some quarreling, fighting, or something of that kind, but I didn't expect there was going to be anything of the magnitude it was. On Saturday, I felt concerned about the matter, and the reason for being concerned was, that I knew that the manufacturing establishments were idle, and the men were off work, and that they were there, and if you have had anything to do with iron men, you know they are a class of men who are easily excited.

Q. You, as a business man, would have closed up all business at that time, under this state of excitement?

A. As a business man, when I found it was necessary to get the military in there, I would not have undertaken to have done that on Saturday afternoon. I would have waited until the men were employed on Monday, or Tuesday, and then there would not be the danger that there was in doing it on Saturday.

Q. The majority of men being off, of course there was great travel on the streets?

A. Yes, sir.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. You felt satisfied and easy that there would not be any disturbance up to Saturday--why did you feel easy and satisfied that there would be no trouble up to Saturday?

A. I understood that the military were here, and that would intimidate them. I was tending to my own business, and really. I had not gone out at all to see what was going on on the railroad, although we have a mill opposite, within a mile, perhaps, of the outer depot, across the river, and I came back and forward and everything was quiet; but when I heard of the loss of life and of the firing, which, I think took place on Saturday, and the men coming across and going into the gun shops in the town, breaking them open and destroying them, then I felt that there was danger, because there is this fact: there is a large number of men that were through the war that are not afraid as those who have never smelled powder--they are not very much afraid of it, and they are brave men, and if you understood that there is danger, they say "we know," and you cannot do anything with them. The idea was this: The first I heard of it that they had shot into a crowd, killing men, women, and children indiscriminately. These men are men who are ready to believe anything of the kind, and they will believe what is said among themselves quicker than they would from you or me or anybody else on the outside. They were excited and exasperated, and then you cannot control them, but the men about our mills are not bad men, all of them. We have bad men there and they will get into the mills, but I do not think there is a better class of men anywhere than in Pittsburgh. My own theory is, that these tramps along the line of the railroad had a knowledge of this strike, and might have been congregating in here for two weeks, and these men are always ready to apply the torch at any moment. They came in here and got into it. I think a great many of the railroad men had nothing to do, and had no idea whatever of getting anything but their wages--no idea of any loss of life or destruction of property; but when they got in there they had no control of this thing, and they did not know themselves whether the men that had been in the lodge room, perhaps, were with them or against them. The people were paralyzed at the magnitude of this thing.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. You have a general acquaintance and knowledge of the manufacturing interests of this State. Is there a larger proportion of employés in the manufactories and mining in this vicinity than there is elsewhere in this State?

A. I think there is; I am not familiar with any place where the proportion is so large as it is just here in our city.

* * * * *

J. Howard Logan being duly _sworn_, testified as follows:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you live?

A. Lincoln avenue, Allegheny.

Q. What is your occupation?

A. 1 have a foundry in New Brighton. Doing business in Pittsburgh.

Q. State whether you were with Doctor Donnelly on Sunday, the 22d of July?

A. I went to the meeting at the old city hall, in Market street, four o'clock, Sunday afternoon, and joined the citizens' organization to go up and stop the riot and firing. We had great trouble getting arms. At first we went to the university, and failed to get them there. Then went down and got pick-handles from a hardware store on Wood street. After that we were marched up to the university again, but failed to get them, and from there we went to one of the armories of the Fourteenth regiment or Nineteenth, and failed to get any arms there. We marched back again to the university, and we got some old rusty muskets, with bayonets. There were plenty of men willing to go; but being marched around from one place to another they dropped off. We got these old muskets, and had about a hundred. We marched down to the mayor's office, and from there we went up Liberty street to Wood, right into the midst of the crowd, and attempted to form a line right across Liberty street, at the edge of the crowd; but we were surrounded, individually, and failed to do that. Doctor Donnelly, who was leading, seemed to have lost control of the men, and seemed to be very much excited. We stayed there about ten minutes without accomplishing anything, except having pistols at our heads all around, and nothing to defend ourselves with but these rusty muskets.

Q. Without any ammunition?

A. Without any ammunition or anything else. Probably one or two of the party, or a few of them, had revolvers, but the majority of us had not.

Q. What did you do then?

A. We got started, and about half of the company went out, and the balance of us turned around and came out then, feeling that we were whipped.

Q. Then you had not the means to cope--arms or weapons to cope with the crowd?

A. No, sir. There were a number lost their muskets in wrestling with the crowd, but they were willing to fight or do anything to hold on to them, but we were powerless because we had nothing to defend ourselves with.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Were the muskets wrenched from their hands?

A. In some cases they were.

Q. Did your men fight them, or use the bayonet?

A. Didn't use the bayonets. We held on to them, and pulled them away. It was very fortunate for us that there were no pistol shots fired, or we would all have been cut to pieces, because all the crowd were armed, and we were not.

Q. If you had had a bold, deliberate leader, and been well armed, could you have accomplished anything in the way of driving away the crowd?

A. We might have done something just at that place, but we did not have more than enough to protect that one spot which we were at.

Q. Where was that?

A. That was on Liberty street, just in front of the elevator.

Q. In front of the elevator?

A. Yes; down from the elevator.

Q. What time was it?

A. About six o'clock.

Q. Sunday evening?

A. Between five and six.

Q. Was there any trouble in raising a company of citizens at that time?

A. No, sir; there were more than we had arms for--more ready to go than we could get muskets for, and some, when we could get these imperfect muskets, were afraid to go into the crowd with them. When we came down from there we deposited what arms we had in the mayor's office, in charge of a policeman there, and some of them scattered and went to the depot--the Duquesne depot--and others to the depots or upon the street, individually.

Q. What did you do Sunday night yourself?

A. I went over to Allegheny; found the citizens were organizing there and about starting out to guard the bridges. I went with a party to the railroad bridge and was there that night. I had a revolver with me then.

Q. The railroad bridge?

A. The railroad bridge across the Allegheny river at the Fort Wayne road.

Q. Was that well guarded by citizens?

A. There was about fifteen or twenty, armed with muskets and revolvers.

Q. What class of citizens?

A. There were several policemen and some officers and men from Allegheny.

Q. Were you molested during the night?

A. No, sir; the orders were from the mayor to stop every person coming over that bridge, and let no one pass. We turned a great many men coming over there--we turned them back, and made them go around to the other bridges.

Q. Allowed nobody to pass?

A. Allowed no person except a few whom the policemen recognized as living right near there, and were respectable people. Any person we didn't know we made them go back.

* * * * *

James I. Bennett, being recalled, testified as follows:

The Witness. Our city is surrounded by large mining interests, in which thousands of men are engaged, and they come in on the trains Saturday to do their marketing and other trading. When we learned of all this thing--of what was going on Sunday--they came in a distance of four or five or six miles, and perhaps there might have been thousands of these men that came in on Sunday and on Monday. The works were nearly all stopped, and these men were flowing in here in any number, and I think only for the organization that the citizens had themselves perfected on Monday, that I do not know what the consequences might have been later in the week, but they saw that there was a preparation to meet them, and the thing was stopped.

At this point the committee adjourned until to-morrow morning, at ten o'clock.

PITTSBURGH, _Thursday, February 21, 1878_.

The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at ten o'clock, A.M., Mr. Lindsey in the chair, and continued the taking of testimony.

All members present except Senator Reyburn.

* * * * *

John H. Webster, being duly _sworn_, testified as follows:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. Twenty-fourth ward, south side.

Q. What is your business?

A. Machinist.

Q. What firm are you at work for--Jones & Laughlin?

A. American Iron Works.

Q. Were you at work for them last July?

A. I have worked for them for over twelve years.

Q. Were you at the scene of the riots, near the Union depot, on Saturday?

A. No, sir.

Q. Were you on Saturday night?

A. No, sir.

Q. Were you on Sunday?

A. I was on a hill immediately above.

Q. On Sunday?

A. Yes; got there about ten o'clock. I suppose it was somewhere in the neighborhood of ten o'clock.

Q. That was your first appearance in the vicinity of the riots?

A. First appearance.

Q. How large a crowd was there, when you got there Sunday?

A. There was an immense crowd.

Q. Of what class of people was the crowd composed principally?

A. All classes.

Q. Were there railroad employés there?

A. I couldn't say whether there was or not.

Q. Were there mill men and factory men and employés in the shops about Pittsburgh there?

A. Not that I seen of upon the hill where I was. I don't know what was done on the track, I was away up top of the hill.

Q. How long did you remain up at the top of the hill?

A. I followed the firing down until the Union depot got fired, then it got too warm for me, and I came away.

Q. Were you down near the track when you followed the firing along?

A. I was up on the hill.

Q. Were you near the elevator?

A. Coming down I passed the elevator, and got on Liberty street, and the crowd made a rush, and came near knocking me down. I got down near the corner of Penn street and stayed there, and watched the Union depot burn.

Q. Did you have any conversation with those that were engaged in burning?