Part 38

A. As to that I cannot speak from personal knowledge. What has been told to me was, in substance, this: That when the sheriff first met the gathering at Twenty-eighth street, there was a large collection of people, numbering, I don't know how many, but one or two thousand people, and this was in the middle of the night--towards eleven o'clock at night. They were gathered there. They insulted the sheriff, threw all sorts of reproaches upon him, blasphemy and obscenity of the very worst character were employed--this I don't know personally, but it has been told to me--and threats were made. Now, it is a question upon which you can judge as well as I, whether, when a crowd can be brought together at that hour of the night--a crowd greatly in excess of all the railroad men in this part of the country--whether any collection of citizens you might obtain, would be able to successfully disperse them, and it is a question very hard to determine.

Q. Would it, in your judgment, be the duty of the sheriff to make an effort to obtain a posse before calling on the Governor?

A. Unless the effort was plainly fruitless, I would not understand the law to require him to do a thing that is plainly unnecessary. If an armed force would come into the county which the sheriff evidently could not deal with citizens, especially without arms, I would not think it necessary to expose himself to any sacrifice of life. If the disturbance were local, I think he ought to make a serious effort to disperse it, before calling on the Governor. The law, as I understand it, and the only law in force on this subject, is the act of 1864, which was passed during the war--during the time of the rebellion, and when there were disturbances in different parts of this State. I understand it authorizes the Governor to call out the militia, on any information that satisfies his mind, whether it is of an official character or not. It is in these terms:

"When an invasion of, or insurrection in, the State is made or threatened, or a tumult, riot, or mob shall exist, the commander-in-chief shall call upon the militia to repel or suppress the same, and may order our divisions, brigades, regiments, battalions, or companies, or may order to be detached parts or companies thereof, or any number of men to be drafted therefrom, and may cause officers to be detailed, sufficient with those attached to the troops to organize the forces."

That was not the law until 1864. At one period in Pennsylvania, when the military were called out, they were to be under the command of the sheriffs. That was changed by the act of 1857--I am not entirely sure about that--it was about that time, and in case of an insurrection, application was to be made to a judge, and so forth. But it will be observed that that law seems to supply all existing legislation on the subject, and applies to cases of insurrection, invasion, mobs, tumults, and riots, and also authorized the Governor when these exist, to call them out, though it don't prescribe on what terms or conditions he shall call them out. I take it that if you, Mr. Chairman, or any gentleman in whom the Governor had confidence, were to communicate with him information that a mob or tumult existed, and it was necessary to call out forces to deal with them, he would be perfectly authorized in calling out the militia, whether his information is of official character or not.

Q. Did you communicate your views, as you have given them to us, to Sheriff Fife?

A. Yes; I said I approved of what he had done. He had sent these telegrams on Thursday night, and as I stated to you, I didn't see him until afternoon.

Q. You approved of what he had done?

A. I approved of what he had done, and I think that view was the view of Mr. Scott, the solicitor of the railroad, and I think of everybody that were cognizant of the fact. At a later period, during the week succeeding the destruction of the property, the various railroads here--the Fort Wayne and Chicago, the Pittsburgh and Cleveland, and the Allegheny Valley, the Baltimore and Ohio, and the Charleston and Virginia road sent written demands to the sheriff, setting forth that a tumultuous body of men were holding their property, and threatening to destroy it, and calling upon him to protect the property. The sheriff made a demand for aid upon General Brown, who was in command of the Sixth division, having succeeded General Pearson, who had been relieved, to enable him to protect this property. I cannot give you the views the military had of their duty here----

Q. We will take the evidence of the military men?

A. There is a communication, and a copy of the communication, written by myself, and sent to General Brown, in fact, it is the original letter, which I have here, to General Brown, making a demand, and I have a copy of his reply. The sheriff, at the same time, or before that time, had constituted General James S. Negley his deputy, for the purpose of preserving the public peace and dispersing the rioters. General Negley was recruiting a body of men to act in preserving the peace. It was said he had several hundred men, and the sheriff, after consultation, clothed him with all the civil character which the sheriff himself had in dealing with these disturbances.

Q. What time was that done?

A. That was done somewhere about the 25th of July. It is about the date of this letter. [Indicating.] This letter will, perhaps, explain about what the sheriff's views of duty were, if you will permit me to read it.

Q. I don't see hardly how that would be necessary, because he called upon the Governor as commander-in-chief to send troops?

A. But the Governor was not here with his troops.

Q. Well, he ordered his troops out?

A. There were no troops here at that time, except the Sixth regiment. General Brinton had been here on Saturday, but he had left with his troops. There were no troops here, except the Sixth division, commanded then by General Brown, and composed of the Fourteenth, Eighteenth, and Nineteenth regiments.

Q. Is this of a character to give directions to General Brown or asking him for aid?

A. Asking him for aid.

Q. I think it would be proper to have it read.

The witness then read the following communication:

SHERIFF'S OFFICE, PITTSBURGH, _July 26, 1877_.

_To GENERAL JOSEPH BROWN, in command of the Sixth Division National Guard of Pennsylvania_:

SIR: I have the honor to enclose to you copies of the following communications, addressed to me under date of the 25th and 26th days of July, inst., by Messrs. Hampton and Dalzell, solicitors for the Pennsylvania company, operating the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago railway, and the Cleveland and Pittsburgh railroad; also by the same parties, solicitors of the Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and St. Louis Railway Company; also by the same parties, solicitors of the Pittsburgh, Virginia and Charleston Railroad Company, and by Welty McCullough, solicitor of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad Company and the Pittsburgh and Connellsville Railroad Company, representing, in substance, that the property of the respective railway companies is in immediate and constant danger of destruction at the hands of a body of rioters and disaffected workmen, which may at any time become a mob, and which said companies believe has an intention of destroying said property.

I beg leave to inform you that since the present disturbances began I have made efforts to summon a _posse comitatus_ to suppress the unlawful and riotous proceedings of the persons referred to in the enclosed communications, but have been hereto unsuccessful in procuring the services of any considerable number of men willing to come to my aid as a _posse comitatus_. My consequent inability to disperse the unlawful assemblages referred to (or some of them) has been communicated to the Governor, who has ordered out the military power of the State for that purpose. I cannot protect the property referred to without your aid. Can you give it? I am well persuaded that no mere civil force that I can raise can protect this property. If you can give me the aid of your military force please inform in writing immediately.

Yours respectfully,

R. H. FIFE, _Sheriff_.

Signed by the sheriff. It was dated the 26th, and the answer of General Brown came two days afterwards, July 28th, and is as follows:

[Official Business.]

HEADQUARTERS SIXTH DIVISION, NATIONAL GUARD, PENNSYLVANIA.

(Copy.)

PITTSBURGH, _July 28, 1877_.

Hon. R. H. FIFE, _Sheriff Allegheny county, Pennsylvania_:

SIR: Yours of date 25th instant came to hand July 26, at 7.20, P.M., in which you request the aid of the National Guard of Pennsylvania to protect the property of the several railroad companies centering in the city of Pittsburgh, now threatened by mobs. You will, wherever there may be any riotous proceedings, bring all the powers with which you are clothed to disperse the rioters. After you have made such effort and are overpowered, your _posse comitatus_ completely driven from the ground, then I am ready and fully able to assist you, and am now ready to assist you, when assured your power is exhausted.

Very respectfully,

_Joseph Brown_, _Brigadier General commanding Sixth Division N.G.P._

Received July 28, 1877, at 9.30, A.M.

I sent a verbal message to ask General Brown whether he thought it was his duty to wait until the _posse comitatus_ was completely driven from the ground. If his duty was merely to bury the dead, we could get somebody to do that as well as him.

Q. This is dated the 28th?

A. It was after any actual destruction of property, and this railroad property was still held by the rioters, and they wouldn't allow trains to move.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. It was a week after the Saturday?

A. It was just a week. The Governor hadn't arrived with his troops, and didn't arrive until some days afterwards--the next week.

Q. What troops did General Brown have under his control?

A. General Brown had under his control the Fourteenth regiment and the Eighteenth regiment and the Nineteenth regiment, Pennsylvania National Guards, all raised in and about this place.

Q. Do you know how many of them were on duty at that time?

A. I cannot say how many were on duty, except from what I have heard, but I have heard the number estimated, and I think I have heard military men say some three or four hundred altogether. General Brown's head-quarters was less than one square from the court-house, and we could get no answer from him at all until two days afterwards. He says in his reply he received the communication, twenty minutes past seven, P.M., on the 26th. After waiting two days he replied, and replied in the manner set forth.

Q. I wish you to state where Sheriff Fife was on Sunday, during the riot, so far as you know?

A. Sheriff Fife was in the city, at home, as I have learned.

Q. During the day, Sunday?

A. The whole day Sunday. I have never heard he was out of the city at all.

Q. Did you see him any time during Sunday in the city?

A. I didn't see him any time during the day, but I saw him on Monday, the next day. It was reported that the sheriff had been killed--it was telegraphed all over the country. I saw the sheriff on Monday, was in his company, and in his office. As to the sheriff himself, I may say this about it, that I personally advised the sheriff, when he went up on Saturday, to constitute a deputy to take charge of this force. The sheriff had, three times during the year preceding, been at the point of death with heart disease, and I don't think he was in a fit condition to go at all, but he insisted on going, and did go, both on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. I know nothing more, gentlemen, that I can tell you about this.

At this point the committee adjourned until three o'clock, this afternoon.

AFTERNOON SESSION.

PITTSBURGH, _Wednesday, February 20, 1878_.

Pursuant to adjournment, the committee met at three o'clock. All present except Messrs. Means, Reyburn, and Torbert.

* * * * *

William N. Riddle, being duly _sworn_, testified as follows:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. In the city of Pittsburgh.

Q. What is your business?

A. Cashier of the Penn Rank.

Q. State whether you had any negotiations or any conference with the strikers during the riots of July last, and if so, what it was?

A. I had conversations with the strikers on, I think, Friday before the riot, and Sunday of the riot.

Q. State what the conference was on Friday--that is, you mean Friday, the 21st of July?

A. Friday before the riot. The conversation was at East Liberty, with the strikers. I went there to see about some stock that had been consigned to us. While there, I got in conversation with them. They seemed to demand their rights of the railroad, but they didn't want to inconvenience any stock dealers there, nor anybody else--didn't seem to want to interfere with the business--wanted their rights--seemed peaceable enough to me on Sunday. I suppose the paper that is here--that is what I am to testify--in regard to that, (the paper referred to by the witness is the paper written to W. C. McCarthy, and will be found in the testimony of Doctor Donnelly,) I was requested, I think, by Major McCarthy, after the citizens meeting on Sunday, at the city hall, to go to Twenty-eighth street and see if I could make any arrangements, or see what the feeling was out among the strikers. I went there, and found this man Cunningham--I don't say it was him, it was a man that was pointed out to me as Cunningham. He said he was willing to go down and join Captain McMunn, and help us citizens suppress the mob. Then this paper was to go to the mayor. I met some one on the corner who said he was going there, and he, this man Cunningham said, would deliver the note properly, and he sent this note to the mayor. This man Cunningham said, that he also thought the Pennsylvania railroad had treated them wrong, but that he was very much opposed to the destruction of property, and that he was willing to join with the citizens, and go down and help suppress the mob then going on--I suppose they were at that time. I couldn't state what hour this was. They must have been in and about the Union depot and elevator.

Q. Who is the man Cunningham. Do you know about his history?

A. I know nothing at all. Never saw him before or since this day. Wouldn't know him now.

Q. Was he a railroad man?

Q. He was a brakeman or engineer on the railroad--one of the strikers said to be at the meeting at the city hall. I cannot testify that that was the man.

Q. This is the note you sent to the mayor after the conversation with Cunningham?

A. Yes.

Q. Will you read this, so the reporter can take it down?

"HONORABLE W. C. MCCARTHY: I have gone to Twenty-sixth street. Cunningham, of the strikers, with Captain McMunn, say they will try to go down at once to new city hall to join you. I will do my best. Tell Doctor Donnelly; and if they come, see that they get instructions." "Instructions" meant--I suppose that means get instruction where to go.

Q. Do you know whether this was delivered to the mayor or not?

A. That I cannot say.

Q. What time did you send this to him?

A. That I wouldn't like to say. I suppose it was about four o'clock in the afternoon--Sunday afternoon.

Q. Who is Captain McMunn?

A. He was also a prominent man among the strikers. He made a speech at the city hall that is recorded. A very good hearted man. I knew him before.

Q. What was his situation on the railroad; do you know?

A. I don't.

Q. Was he in the employ of the railroad company at the time the strike broke out?

A. I cannot say that he was then. I was always led to believe he was before. I used to live at the Union depot, and I know most of these people by sight. I have seen him several times, and talked to him on the street since the riot.

Q. Do you know whether he is in the employ of the company now or not?

A. I don't, sir.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Did you understand from the conference you had with Cunningham that the strikers would unite with good citizens to suppress the riot and disperse the mob?

A. Yes; that some of the strikers would--the ones inclined peaceably?

Q. What did Mayor McCarthy say in reply to this note? Did you ever learn?

A. I never got an answer. In fact, I don't think I ever asked, because when I came down the people had all gone up to the depot--all that seemed to want to join. In fact I am positive I never said anything about it afterwards. I suppose if they had gone there they would have been assigned to proper places.

Q. Were they to act in conjunction with Doctor Donnelly and his armed force?

A. Yes; that was the understanding. I think Captain McMunn told me to go to this man Cunningham, and that he would help us.

Q. They were to join Doctor Donnelly?

A. Yes.

Q. Did they ever join Doctor Donnelly?

A. That I can't say. I don't know. They might have joined without my knowing it.

Q. State, if you know, what efforts were made by the city authorities to get a force to suppress the riot and disperse the mob?

A. At what particular time, or do you mean in general?

Q. At any time during the riots--during the violence?

A. I can tell you very briefly--it would have to be----

Q. Only what you know of your own personal knowledge what effort was made by the mayor and his subordinates to suppress the riots and disperse the mob?

A. I only know that in the morning I went to the mayor and asked--early in the morning----

Q. The day it commenced?

A. On Saturday. I was in Allegheny that night. I went to the mayor early in the morning, and asked him if there was anything that could be done--asked him if he couldn't get a few extra police by issuing a call for extra police.

Q. That is the mayor of Pittsburgh?

A. Mayor McCarthy; yes, sir. He said the police committee were then in session up stairs. I asked him if he would allow me to go up, and request them to issue a call and guarantee their payment. He said, I might. I went up and stated the case, and they said to me, that they had authorized the mayor to employ a certain number, which I don't know now, of police. I went to the mayor and asked him if he would--after that there was a meeting at the city hall, pretty shortly after that--I asked the mayor if he could get any extra police. He said, he couldn't get them, he had tried, and couldn't get them. I joined the mayor after that, and went to the city hall meeting. Going down Fifth avenue, I asked the mayor if he was going to make an attempt to get additional police, as he had been authorized by the police committee. He said he was, but who was going to guarantee the payment of this money. I told him we would fix that part of it, if that was all the hang there was to it. We got to the city hall meeting, went on and got partly through. If I remember right, I said I would be one of so many that would pay the police, if he felt backward about employing them. Then I know after that, he made an attempt to get men, and succeeded, I don't how far, but he got a few, at least, later in the day. I asked him if he was going to send out police, and he said he had not been asked to do so.

Q. Send them to the scene of the riots?

A. Yes; I am a friend of Mayor McCarthy, and I am simply testifying as a citizen. I think there is very much of a mix somewheres--who it belongs to or where it rests--it ought to be placed somewhere. There is a very decided mix.

Q. I wish to ask you another question. Do you know what efforts were made by the sheriff and his subordinates or the county authorities to suppress the riot?

A. I don't know anything about that, nothing at all except hearsay.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Had you had any talk with Mayor McCarthy before Sunday?

A. No, sir; not on this subject.

* * * * *

Reverend Sylvester F. Scoville, being duly _sworn_, testified as follows:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Were you at the citizen's meeting on Sunday?

A. I arrived just at the close of it.

Q. What occurred then?

A. I had been appointed a member of the citizens' committee. I went with them to city hall, and from that went in carriages to the mob.

Q. Who accompanied you?

A. Bishop Tuigg, a father of the catholic church, whose name I have forgotten--Mr. Bennett, I think his name is J. I. Bennett--Mr. J. Parker, junior, and others, whose names I forget at the moment. There were two carriages. Doctor Donnelly, I remember him distinctly, he was there. Our contact with the mob was very brief. Railings were torn from the fence on Liberty street; but we made our way to the end of the platform of the car--the rear platform of the car. One of the gentlemen sought to call the people to order, and introduced Bishop Tuigg, who endeavoured to address them. They listened for a few moments, and then interrupted with questions. After a few moments further they began to throw clinkers or pieces of iron, and we were warned by apparent friends to withdraw, with the words, "It is growing very hot here." Other ineffectual attempts were made to address the meeting. After withdrawing we proceeded to Twenty-sixth street, with a view of meeting the strikers, and attempting to dissociate them from the rioters, with the hope that they would assist in suppressing the riot. It was impossible to find the leaders. One or two, who seemed to have some influence, were finally seen. Then the citizens' committee went to visit the railroad authorities at a private house in Allegheny.

Q. What was said to the strikers that you found, and what did the strikers say?

A. Those who were found disclaimed any sympathy with the riot, and they were appealed to do what they could to suppress it.

Q. Did they seem willing to help in suppressing the arson and riot that was then going on?

A. They made no motion in that direction, but there were very few--they were so scattered here and there. So far as I could see, all that was accomplished by that committee was to direct the attention of the few to the efforts that were going on in the city to organize a force. The character of the rioters appeared to me to be such as belonged to people habitually in Pittsburgh. I saw no evidence of their being strangers.

Q. What class of people were they?

A. By their dress and language, they were laborers.

Q. Laborers from the factories, and rolling-mills, &c.?

A. I should think so. Yes, sir.

Q. Were there no railroad employés that were actually engaged in the arson and burning and riot?

A. I recognized none whom I knew as railroad employés, but it was evident that somebody that understood the management of engines were there, and the crowd was not wholly confined to those whose dress looked like laboring men. They seemed to have no wish to injure anything but the railroad, and clamored to know whether any proposition came directly from the chief of the road, Mr. Scott, and when they found no such proposition was to be given to them, they would not listen to any other.

Q. What time was it that you visited the scene of the riot?

A. From half past two to three. Do you wish to know anything in regard to the interview with the authorities?

Q. Yes; I would like to have you relate the interview with the city authorities?

A. I mean with the railroad authorities.

Q. Relate the interview with the railroad authorities?