Part 37
A. They might have been; I don't know. I couldn't recognize them.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Didn't one recognize and call to you "Doctor, get down from that?"
A. They knew me well enough--these men knew me well enough.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Told you to get down from there, and said they were going to burn that car?
A. Yes; they had made up their minds to burn the depot.
Q. Did he say that?
A. No, sir; I judged that. That was our effort to save the depot. I induced the bishop to go down myself.
Q. In the practice of your profession, have you become acquainted, more or less, with the laboring men about the city?
A. Yes; I have. I am a great deal amongst them--factories, mills, and all around the neighborhood. I have a great deal of intercourse with that class of people as a surgeon amongst them.
Q. Did you recognize any of that class in this crowd?
A. I didn't recognize--yes, I recognized two men, that I have since endeavored to find, who were amongst the rioters--that was the only two.
Q. On Sunday?
A. Yes; they were there present, and one of them, when I was addressing the crowd, made the remark to me that they wouldn't put confidence in any man, no matter what he said, and that man I would know again. He was one of them, and he was an aider and abettor. I have gone frequently around the depot since; and I think he was employed by the company. I would know him if I was to see him. The other man, that threw the piece of iron ore at my head, I would know him. I have never met him.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Do you know whether any of your command--of your company had been called upon by the sheriff to join his posse to suppress the riot the day before, or at any time.
A. I don't know whether they ever had or not. I don't think the sheriff was about on Sunday.
Q. The day before?
A. I don't know whether he was Saturday night or not. I don't know, sir, anything about the sheriff and his posse. There was no sheriff or posse that I saw at all.
* * * * *
Captain P. Grallisath, being duly _sworn_, testified as follows:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you at the Union depot at any time during the riots of July last--first you may state where you reside?
A. No. 660 Diamond street.
Q. What is your business?
A. Tavern.
Q. Keep hotel?
A. No; tavern--restaurant.
Q. State whether you were at the Union hotel or not, and what time it was?
A. I was at the Union depot about half past two in the afternoon.
Q. Of what day?
A. On Saturday. I think it was.
Q. When the Philadelphia troops arrived?
A. I got notice from my colonel, who is captain of the Black Hussars, who sent a man to me with a note that one of his men lost a cap on the road, and for me to bring him one. I went out myself and met them at the depot there--the Black Hussars, and I saw--I suppose it was the First regiment or Second Philadelphia--the infantry getting ready to march out the track; and I was talking to my colonel, and asking him how things goes, and what he came on here for. Says he: "I don't know." He says: "I suppose we came on here to keep peace here in Pittsburgh." I staid there with him for about an hour and a half. I told him, says I: "Colonel, you better come down to my house. There is nothing going on here. It is all nonsense to remain here. Leave your men here and come down with me;" and so he did.
Q. What was the Colonel's name?
A. Captain Chues, of the Black Hussars. He was my colonel in the army. We went down home and got something to eat and a few glasses of beer, and all at once an orderly sent word to say: "Captain hurry up, they are firing on front." I went out with him to the depot, and staid there until dark with him. They had charge of the ammunition from General Brinton, at the Union depot. I staid there until dark, and the infantry was out, and a great many people passing along Liberty street, and hollering and cheering over to the boys, but they didn't take any notice. I told the colonel, says I, "never mind, just leave them talk and mind their own business." So they did, I says, "colonel, I am going home. I will be back again in a short time." I had to see how business was at home. Everything was upside down in the city. I came back about eight o'clock, and went to the depot again, and I found there was nobody there. I asked where they were, and they said they were in the round-house. I could not go out there, because I was alone myself, and I understood they were at the same time in the Union depot, up stairs--all of them--hid up.
Q. Who did you understand that from?
A. I had it from Major Howard, of the Fourteenth regiment, whose company was there stationed in the Union depot. This was after this.
Q. Did he say that all the Black Hussars----
A. He says "they are not there." Then I went back home again in the street cars, and I see a great mob making raids on the bonds for whisky--anything they could find--nearly opposite the street car where I was in. I went home. About twelve o'clock I went to the depot again. I thought it was the best thing for me to see where these boys are.
Q. The Hussars?
A. Yes. I went out with one of my men to find out where they were. I saw General Howard, of the Fourteenth regiment, right at the gate where the train comes in. I went to him. Says I, "Do you know anything about the Black Hussars." Says he, "Captain, I don't." Says I, "Are they in the round-house." Says he, "I don't know anything about it." I went out over where the ammunition was, and didn't see anybody except two or three watchmen around with lanterns. I ask them where they were, and they said they didn't know, that they must be in the round-house. I couldn't believe it, because I know Colonel Clines ain't going to block himself up in a cage. Says I, "If I can't find them, there is no use for me to go out in the round-house." I went home again, and couldn't get any satisfaction. All at once, Sergeant Wilder, from Philadelphia, orderly sergeant of the company of Black Hussars, about half-past two o'clock in the morning, I was sitting on the bed, and he asked some policeman where my house was, and he told him he didn't know. Everybody knows me, where my house is, especially policemen, and he says he didn't know where Captain Gallisath lived. He passed my house two or three times before he could find it. All at once, he asked somebody, and they told him, and he rang the bell, and I was sitting on the bed. I was not going to undress until I heard some news. A darkey, he showed him the road. He came up and told me the whole thing as it stands. Says he, "We are in the Union depot, and I don't know how to get out." I got all my boys up, and said they should throw out every stitch of clothes they had in their possession. I went out and took them all out in two squads over the hill. They couldn't get through Liberty street.
Q. You gave them citizens' clothes?
A. All my own and all my men's.
Q. For the Hussars to go out in disguise?
A. Yes; I kept them there for three days at my house.
Q. How many of them?
A. There was sixteen or seventeen. I think there was seventeen. I kept them there until I got word from General Brinton, and I took them over to the West Penn road, and sent them home. General Pearson, I suppose, gave them a pass. The Black Hussars were on the road to Philadelphia, and were telegraphed to come back to the junction again.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. There were sixteen or seventeen?
A. Yes.
Q. Did they have arms?
A. Nothing but sabers.
Q. Where were their guns?
A. They had none.
Q. Did they have guns when they came in from Philadelphia?
A. Nothing at all but sabers.
Q. They were placed in the Union depot to guard the ammunition, Captain Clines at the head?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was that all that came there Saturday--Saturday afternoon--sixteen in number?
A. That is all they had, seventeen--I suppose it was seventeen--I had them in my house. They had nothing but sabers. They had no carbines nor pistols nor anything.
Q. Where did they leave the ammunition when they came out?
A. The ammunition was at the same place still--and burned up too.
Q. In the Union depot?
A. That is the report that I heard afterwards, that it was set afire on Sunday.
Q. They didn't bring the ammunition out with them?
A. General Brinton gave Captain Clines orders to take charge of the ammunition, so they could ship it to the front, but they never came back again, the Philadelphia troops.
Q. General Brinton didn't come back again?
A. No; they were up in the round-house, and Sunday morning went away to the other side of the river.
Q. Captain Clines left the ammunition in the depot?
A. The understanding was, that they were cut off from General Brinton, and nobody knew the ammunition was in there, except himself and his boys.
Q. Do you know whether he left it there in the depot or not?
A. I am very well satisfied he couldn't take it away. I heard the cartridges cracking around there on Sunday when they burned up. General Brinton had no ammunition, whatever, when he was cut off, and he couldn't get none--not what he brought from Philadelphia.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did Captain Clines and his command carry anything away from there?
A. They left their sabers there when I took them up the hill, but they got them back afterwards, and I shipped them to Philadelphia my own self.
Q. How far do you live from Union depot?
A. Three squares and a half.
Q. What street?
A. Diamond.
Q. How many people were there along Diamond street when you took these clothes out?
A. Nobody--everything quiet.
Q. Couldn't these Black Hussars have marched out and down to your house?
A. They couldn't march from Union depot on Liberty street, they had to go around the hill and over the Pan-Handle road by the tunnel and back here--that is where the nigger took them around.
Q. In citizens dress?
A. I sent the clothes out. They went in two squads. We hadn't so many clothes to dress them all at once, the mob was waiting for them to come out.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You are a military man, and have had a great deal of experience in the army. In your opinion, could these sixteen men have cut their way out with their sabers?
A. No, sir; they couldn't.
Q. Why not?
A. I couldn't see how. They didn't know the road, nor anything. They were strangers.
Q. If they had had a guide?
A. I don't see how they could do it with sabers, when the mob was standing outside with stones and pistols. What did them sixteen men want to do with sabers.
Q. Was there a large crowd?
A. There was a big crowd there. They couldn't, I am satisfied. I wouldn't have risked it, and I wouldn't be afraid if I were acquainted in the city, and know my road.
Q. If you had had sixteen men well armed----
A. Yes; well armed, that is all right; but they were not.
Q. Were there no arms there. Were there not some stacks of muskets?
A. They had nothing but their sabers, that is all. I saw them all. They had nothing but their pocket knives. Some of them had no knives, because they went away so quick, they didn't know where they were going, and they thought they were going a few miles outside of Philadelphia.
Q. Do you know whether there was any effort made to take any provisions or ammunition to the troops in the round-house on Saturday night?
A. Not as I know of.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. These Black Hussars are generally intended as cavalry, are they not?
A. Yes; they are all mounted.
Q. The general cry was against the Philadelphia soldiers. That intimidated these men, did it?
A. I heard them hollering in the street for to kill them--in Liberty street.
Q. That is a good way to intimidate a person, isn't it?
A. Oh! yes; I was right with them. I suppose they would if they could. A man says to me, what I got business to do with the Philadelphia troops, keeping conversation with them. I told him that is my business.
Q. What business you had with them?
A. Yes. I said that is my business.
Q. They didn't pretend to interfere with you--did they?
A. I suppose they would, if they could. I don't know, I wasn't afraid.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was it known to the crowd that these Black Hussars were quartered in your house? Did the crowd know that the Black Hussars were in your house?
A. No; not that Sunday. They found it out on Monday, though. The people came in the house keeping very nice, quiet conversation with them. I never heard a wrong word on Wednesday. The house was crowded, and they were sitting around with them, drinking beer. It was all right; very nice, quiet conversation.
Q. The Black Hussars did?
A. Our Pittsburgh friends treated them very kind.
* * * * *
Robert B. Carnahan, being duly _sworn_, was examined as follows:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside, Mr. Carnahan?
A. I reside in Pittsburgh, Nineteenth ward. We call it the east end here.
Q. Practicing attorney?
A. Practicing attorney.
Q. Solicitor for the sheriff, I believe?
A. Yes; I am at this time, and have been for two years past.
Q. Just state what you know of the movements of the sheriff during the riots of July last?
A. At the time of the first disturbance, which occurred on Thursday evening, it was preceding the Saturday on which----
Q. That was the 19th--Thursday evening, the 19th?
A. Yes; the 19th. I knew nothing whatever of anything the sheriff had done, or had been called on to do. I was informed the next morning that during the night of Thursday the sheriff had been called on by the solicitor of one of the railroads--Mr. Scott--by some of the railroad officials, during the night, and that he had been at Twenty-eighth street during that night, but I knew nothing of it personally. My residence is five miles--nearly six miles--from here, though in the city of Pittsburgh, and I was not sent for that night. The next day I became acquainted with what had been done, but I think I did not see the sheriff at all. He was out at Torrens station during a considerable portion of the day, with the railroad officers, and I don't remember to have seen him that day. I think he had been up pretty much all the night before, and was out, away from his office, the greater part of Friday, and I don't think I saw him at all on Friday. On Saturday morning I saw the sheriff, and had a full conference with him in his office. The sheriff submitted to me what he had done. Gave me an account of his meeting the rioters on Thursday night, and of his being out at Torrens station on Friday, where I think he was a considerable part of the day--at one place or the other--at least, I did not find him during business hours; and of his notification of the Governor that he was not able to deal, in his opinion, with the rioters or mob that had obstructed the running of the trains. Of course, I made inquiry as to the magnitude of the gatherings, to learn something about their threatening, hostile character. In fact, had known myself, personally, coming in on the road, that the trains were detained. I said to him that I entirely approved, as a matter of law, of what he had done in notifying the Governor to send on troops. The view I had of the act of 1864, I think it is, was that the Governor, on reliable information from any quarter where there was insurrection that the legal authorities were not able to deal with, might call out the troops, and I approved of that; but on Saturday morning the attorneys of the Pennsylvania railroad went into the court of common pleas No. 2, and obtained warrants for the arrest of a number of persons--my recollection is, fifteen in number--who were charged as leaders of this riotous movement. I think the warrants were addressed to a constable of the name of Richardson, and the solicitors of the road made a demand on the sheriff that morning for a _posse comitatus_ to attend the arresting officers, and support him in the discharge of that duty. This took place sometime in the morning, at or after eleven o'clock in the morning--it was after eleven o'clock, I think--and I advised the sheriff to assemble a _posse comitatus_--as large a number of men as he could obtain--that three or four hundred would not be too large, and it was understood, at that time, that troops would arrive that evening. They would arrive here at twelve o'clock, or about twelve o'clock, perhaps earlier than twelve, on a train that arrived here between eleven and twelve o'clock, and it was understood the arrangement was, that the civil authorities were to make these arrests, the constable supported by the sheriff and his _posse comitatus_, and that the military were to be on the ground. There was, indeed, very little time for obtaining a _posse comitatus_ at that time, but the sheriff sent out his deputies, some fifteen or sixteen of them, with instructions to bring in a _posse comitatus_. There was not time to write out summonses and serve them in any way, but I said to him that it would be a sufficient demand upon a person to attend if given verbally, that it was better to have a written notice, if there was time, which there was not then--less than an hour to do it all in. These deputies went out, some fourteen or fifteen of them, but they severally came in and reported at an interval of an hour, or an hour and a half--it was nearly one o'clock--and the result was, I think, but two men were obtained. I remember of one man being brought into the office who was very much alarmed. The sheriff asked him if he was willing to go. He said he was not willing to go; he was afraid to go. The sheriff reproached him with cowardice, and said he did not want that kind of a fellow to attend him. I think not more than two men were obtained. Sometime between twelve and one--I think nearer one than twelve--the sheriff, with his own deputies, went up to the Union depot. I think all his deputies, with the exception of one or two, perhaps, who were not then in the city. Every deputy he had in the city attended him, including his two sons and his brother, and they went up to the Union depot, and I think the constable was with him. I am not entirely sure about that. I attended them myself up as far as the Union depot. I know we went there, and some of the military had arrived there from Philadelphia at that time, but I think not all of them. I know nothing more as to what occurred on that afternoon, for I was not at Twenty-eighth street when the firing took place, and my personal knowledge ends with this, that the sheriff himself personally went. I cannot relate about anything that took place on Saturday night, or after that time, for I was not in that part of the city, but was at home.
Q. Do you know when it was that she sheriff made the call on the Governor for troops to support him?
A. I only know from what he told me himself, and what I have heard others say, and what I have seen printed--it must have been on Thursday night, the 19th.
Q. In your opinion, had the sheriff then exhausted his powers and resources to cope with the mob?
A. I, of course, cannot judge that; that is a question of fact. I can only judge of it from what other people have told me. I can judge from what I personally have seen of this mob myself, coming in on the train every day, for these trains had been delayed for two or three days. The freight trains were accumulating, and had been detained for some days before that or some time before that--at least one day--one whole day, if not another. I should judge from the crowds I saw assembled about the trains myself, and from descriptions of them by others, that it was not possible for the sheriff with any _posse comitatus_ that he could obtain to deal with them, and I will tell you on what I found my opinion. This was a combination, I may say, of what we call here in Pittsburgh, the striking element. I don't think any man will say that he found a preponderance of the railroad men in their assemblages about Twenty-eighth street, or the Union depot, or other places on the road. Everybody out of work who belonged to what we call the striking population, were directed by sympathy or opinion towards these people. It was not a body of railroad men alone, and I don't think that the larger part of them were railroad men--the iron workers, the people who work in rolling mills, and the people who work in the various branches of industry, were all in sympathy with them, so far as I observed, and so far as my knowledge, derived from others, extends, and it was a sort of massing of the striking element here. The strike of the Pennsylvania railroad men being simply the occasion that brought them together.
Q. Let me ask you another question: In your judgment, had the sheriff at that time, under the act of 1864, laid the grounds for calling on the Governor for aid?
A. I don't remember--I have not the act of 1864 before me, and I don't remember whether it defines any ground. My recollection is, that the act itself does not define more than in general terms, at least, the ground upon which the executive aid maybe invoked. I was satisfied of this, and I think Senator Scott was. I know from his conversations with me that it was such a gathering, with such a purpose, and with such a determination that, at least, the Pennsylvania Railroad Company did not expect to deal with them without military forces to aid them, and I think that that was the prevalent impression. One of the sheriffs deputies told me that, though he had served in the army three years, he never had encountered any danger that alarmed him like the danger he expected to encounter here. He was a man willing to do his duty. It was a mob that inspired some terror, even at that time. Before any blood was shed, there was a general apprehension of trouble. I have seen many strikes here of coal diggers, of men engaged in iron mills and glass houses, and the various departments of industry. In fact, we have been a good deal accustomed to them, but there had never before been very much actual, positive mischief coming from them, and I never before saw a mob the people were afraid of, before that one in this city. However, I must say I saw but little of it until Saturday, and then the soldiers had been called out under the command of General Pearson, and some Philadelphia soldiers had arrived. On Saturday, the feeling was angry, it was threatening and severe.
Q. What preparations is it necessary for the sheriff to make, or what are his duties under the laws of the State of Pennsylvania before calling on the Governor for aid?
A. Well, gentlemen, I think the law on that subject has been very much changed by the act of 1864. That is here. I would like to refer you to it. I think very radical changes were made in the law relative to calling out the militia, by the act of 1864, that has been much adverted to lately. I think it establishes a very different system.
Q. From that heretofore in practice?
A. I think so. I think it is altogether different. As I understand that law, it is not necessary at all that the sheriff should notify the Governor. It might be done by the mayor, or alderman, or even by any citizen. The Governor himself judges of the sufficiency.
Q. As you understand the law, is it necessary for the sheriff to make an effort to obtain a _posse comitatus_ before calling on the Governor?
A. I certainly would think the sheriff, the principal peace officer of the county, ought to make some effort to get a _posse comitatus_ to control that riot; but there are cases where the riot has taken such proportions, as I think this one had--I do not regard it as local at all, for it extended from the Mississippi to the Atlantic--there are such cases where no _posse comitatus_ could deal with them at all.
Q. At the time the sheriff made the call on the Governor, was it not principally local?