Part 36

Q. Were they dressed in uniform?

A. Yes; with the exception of General Brown, who was in citizen's dress, and he was the commander-in-chief. I inquired for General Pearson. I understood he was with the Philadelphia troops.

Q. Go on, now, Doctor.

A. My address seemed to have considerable influence with the strikers and trainmen and others; and they had their meeting-place on Penn street, near Twenty-eighth. I think it was over a segar store; and I was requested to meet them that afternoon. I did so, and they delegated me to wait on the officials of the road to make terms, to put an end to any further disturbances. They requested me to see Mr. Thaw. I think he is an official of the road, one of the vice presidents, if I am not mistaken--William Thaw, I think his name is, and Mr. McCullough and Mr. Layng. I went to Mr. Thaw's house two or three times, but was unable to find him. I then went to Allegheny, and met Mr. Layng and Colonel McCullough, and told them what the strikers wanted, and endeavored to persuade them to meet the strikers or to make some promise that would put an end to further difficulty and trouble, or the shooting of people or destruction of property. They were both together, and I conversed with them, and I gave them the terms the strikers had authorized me to make. I took it from the strikers and wrote it down in pencil at the time, and it is here--the terms they wished me to propose to the officers of the road, to Mr. Thaw and Colonel Scott, if he was in town. After informing these gentlemen what the strikers demanded, they told me they could do nothing in the matter whatever--it was above their power to do anything.

Q. You may read what the strikers demanded.

A. This is what they demanded: "Authorized by strikers to visit Colonel McCullough and Mr. Layng to effect a compromise on the basis of taking off double-headers; same wages as prior to June 1, 1877; each man to receive his position prior to strike."

Q. Retain his position prior to strike--receive or retain?

A. They said receive at that time--"classification of engines done away with; each engineer to receive first-class wages, same as prior to June 1, 1877; each engine, road or shifting, to have own fireman"--that was the conditions on which they wished to make a compromise with the officials of the road, and by all means to endeavor to have them meet them, so as to make some kind of a compromise. Their great object seemed to be to have a conference with the officials.

Q. What time did you get that proposition?

A. It was in the afternoon of Saturday.

Q. Before the collision with the troops?

A. It was after the collision. I had not heard of the collision at that time. I had been hunting Mr. Thaw in the afternoon, and then had gone to Allegheny, and I had to procure the aid of a gentleman to go with me to learn where Mr. McCullough and Mr. Layng lived.

Q. Did you get the proposition before the collision from the strikers?

A. The strikers gave me the proposition previous to the collision, I think.

Q. What time did you present it?

A. I presented it--it must have been, perhaps, four o'clock or five--it was in the afternoon.

Q. What response did you get--reply?

A. They told me they could do nothing at all in the matter, nor did they seemed disposed to do anything. They conversed about the matter as indifferently as if it was a thing on the other side of the Atlantic--took no interest in it, but referred me to President Scott.

Q. Did you return to Twenty-eighth street that night again--Saturday night?

A. I did, sir; went there several times. I reported the interview, and they said they would try to meet the officers--they would meet the officers at East Liberty, and that they had sent out word to some of the officers--I think Mr. Pitcairn and some other officers--to meet them at East Liberty, and they had gone out there. This was late in the evening. They had gone out to East Liberty, but they could get no satisfaction out of the officers there; and they had also telegraphed to Mr. Scott, president of the road, and had received no answer, and that they had used every means in their power to make some compromise with the officers of the road, but had failed.

Q. Were you present when the fire occurred and the first car was fired?

A. No, sir; I was not present at any firing. I was pretty late that evening out at Twenty-eighth street, and there was an immense concourse of people all along Liberty street for several squares, but, as I had my horse with me I did not go amongst them at all on the tracks. I merely reported my interview between myself and Colonel McCullough and Mr. Layng, and I then went home.

Q. Your effort was particularly confined to adjusting the compromise and difficulty between the strikers and the railroad?

A. Railroad officials at that time.

Q. Did you have any negotiations with the mayor about additional policemen?

A. That Saturday I had not. On Saturday I had not, but on the next morning, Sunday morning, I was very active, indeed, to endeavor to raise and organize a vigilance committee for the purpose of suppressing the riot and saving the property of the railroad company, and other property; dreading that the city would be set on fire and plundered by mobs.

By Mr. Yutzy:

Q. These railroad officials you called to see in Allegheny--General McCullough and Thaw and Layng--what railroad company are they connected with? Pennsylvania Central?

A. They are all connected with the same company. I presume they represent the Cleveland and Cincinnati--that western part of the Pennsylvania Central.

Q. Pennsylvania Company--not the Pennsylvania Central?

A. I didn't know that there was any difference. Mr. Thaw is certainly connected with the Pennsylvania Central. I think he is one of the vice presidents.

Q. The Pennsylvania Company managed the road west of Pittsburgh?

A. I don't really know what their positions were. I was solicited by these men to interview them, supposing that they were the proper authorities in the matter. Mr. Thaw was proper authority in the absence of Colonel Scott or other officials that could not be found.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. What success did you meet with in trying to organize a force on Sunday morning?

A. On Sunday morning the citizens met near the old city hall and formed a kind of organization there, and finally adjourned to the new city hall, and there we organized a committee of safety, composed of citizens, to take measures to assist the mayor--employ a force of policemen, as he was very deficient in a police force at the time, and had but a few men on duty; and the object was to organize a strong police force to aid and assist the mayor in suppressing the riot, which then had become very alarming. We were all day nearly in doing a very little. The citizens seemed to be panic stricken, and there seemed to be no head at all in the city amongst the officials or amongst the people. The mayor seemed to be powerless. The sheriff, I believe, had ran away, and, in fact, we seemed to have no city government for the protection of the city or the people.

Q. What did the mayor do in the way of assisting in this organization?

A. The mayor--he didn't do a great deal, he seemed to be running around at one thing and another, and he seemed to be so confused and incapable of organizing anything, that he really did do nothing. I understood there was two companies of troops come down from up the Monongahela in charge of an old army companion of mine. I suggested that he had better try to get those two companies, and take them down where the riot was going on, and do something. We found that these troops had returned again, and they were not there, and we came back again, and, finding that the riot was still going on and nothing being done, he authorized me to collect as many citizens as I possibly could, and go down there and see if we could suppress the disturbance, and I organized about sixty men, composed partly of lawyers, a few physicians, and other gentlemen, who were determined to use every effort to suppress the disturbance; and we first armed ourselves with axe handles, which a gentleman on Wood street procured for us out of his store. I considered that didn't look very military, and somebody suggested that there were rifles at the Western University, up on Diamond street, and we concluded to make a raid on the university. We did so, with the sanction of the mayor, and we got the rifles, and then there was no ammunition, and we put the bayonets on them, and with a company of sixty men, and myself as the colonel--I had been commissioned by the mayor to act as such--we marched down to the scene of the riot and arson, each gentleman had a white handkerchief tied on his arm to distinguish them from the rest of the crowd that was there assembled--it may look very ludicrous just now, but it was a very serious matter then. We marched down amongst them, and the crowd sort of stood to one side and let us pass through. I arranged the men on each side of Liberty street, where I supposed they were going to set lire to the large stores. At that time the grain elevator had been destroyed, and the property adjoining the metal yard, adjoining this large ware-house, was also on fire. There was a fence running from the middle yard up to one of the stores, I proposed to some of the rioters present to tear that fence down and save that property, two or three of them said, well, what do you want, I said we didn't want private property destroyed, so a gang of them went over and tore the fence down, and the flames didn't extend any further in that direction. After staying there some time, and seeing that there was no evidence of breaking into stores or setting fire to private property, we retired; that is, we retreated to the city hall, and stacked our arms in the building, and dispersed for the night. The next morning we were not organized again, the city seemed pretty quiet, and the crowd had understood that the citizens were taking an active part in protecting the city.

Q. Let me ask you a question there. Supposing you had arrived with your regiment--you say you were a commissioned colonel--suppose you had arrived on the ground before the fire reached the Union depot, do you think that you could have kept the mob back and prevented the firing of the Union depot with that body?

A. I do think that if I had been authorized and given me fifty or sixty good men, that understood their duty, and were obedient to orders and had loaded rifles before that depot burned, it could have been saved. I went there and tried to save that depot, and took Bishop Tuigg with me to go out there, thinking that there might be a number of our countrymen there engaged in that, and that he would have some influence with them, to save the property of the company, and save the building. I stood on the platform of a car with the bishop, and he first addressed them, and in looking over the crowd, I found that the crowd were not Irishmen. As we soon discovered, they began throwing iron ore and other missiles at the bishop's head, which no good Catholic would do, unless he was an Orangeman. I also addressed them, and a burly fellow came up and said, get down from here, Doctor, we are going to set fire to this, and I considered it most prudent to get down. With fifty good men, I would have cleared that place in a very few minutes.

By Mr. Means:

Q. Do you know that man that came up to you?

A. I would know him if I ever saw him. I felt very vindictive towards him at that moment. I did try to save an engine by pulling a fellow off who would not allow the engineer to try to run it off. I pulled him off and said let that man take the engine off. He was drunk at the time, and he said something to me, but anyhow they kept the engine there until it was burned. If the officials even of the depot--if the officials of the road, or the employés of the road, had any courage at all on Monday, they could have saved that building. There was no trouble about it, because the outside people were perfectly indifferent, looking on and affording no resistance.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Supposing the officials connected with the road there had made an effort to have driven them back, what effect would that have had upon the crowd?

A. The crowd that was there at that time could have been easily driven away.

Q. Would it have excited them worse?

A. I think not. I think the citizens were all disposed at that time to aid to enforce law and order. It was the feeling. That was on Sunday, mind you. On Sunday afternoon at that time I believe every citizen was disposed to enforce law and order, and that the rioting element would not have had any chance whatever, and they would not have been supported.

Q. How many were actually engaged in the arson and rioting at that time?

A. From my looking at them and looking amongst them, and as they were assembled together to listen to what we had to say, I don't think there was fifty men really.

Q. Engaged in the riot?

A. I don't think there was that many, because they were dispersed amongst the crowd of people, and you could only tell the bad element amongst them by their appearance, and by their dress, and by their half drunken condition.

Q. Had you any talk with the mayor during the day, Sunday, about sending out a posse of policemen there?

A. I had talked with the mayor on several occasions. I urged him to try to organize a force, and I asked him several times very plainly why he had not arrested these rioters, I mean the strikers, the head of them, that were inciting riot, and he said that he had done his duty in that respect, but that he had been superseded Ivy Mr. Hampton and Dalzell, and other persons connected with the railroad, in taking it out of his hands, and placing the authority in the hands of the sheriff, and that he would let them manage the matter--something to that effect--and that seemed to be his principal reason for not having acted more energetically--that the officers of the road had taken the matter out of his hands.

Q. He was out there during the day Sunday looking over the crowd?

A. I didn't see him out there, I think, unless he was there, and I didn't see him. I was going to say that these are some of the strikers who sent the communication [indicating a paper] to the mayor and myself. This is addressed to the Honorable Mr. McCarthy and Doctor Donnelly. Metzgar was chief clerk of the mayor at that time, and this communication was sent. I had been soliciting these strikers to aid us in suppressing the riot, to enter in with us, and make their appearance amongst us, to show that they were not in favor of pillaging, burning, &c. This is addressed to the Honorable M. J. McCarthy: "Have gone to the Twenty-sixth street, with Cunningham, of the strikers, with McKeon. Say they will try to go down at once to new city hall to join you, and will do my best." That is underlined: "Will do my very best. Tell Donnelly, if they come, see that they get instructions." That is, I was to go down with the force, at that time, with proper instructions. That is the name of the gentleman, I can hardly make it out, it is very peculiar writing, "W. N. Riddle," I should think it was. He was to aid and assist us, with his strikers, to suppress these disturbances.

Q. Riddle--was this the man that requested you----

A. That was not the man. That man I could never find afterwards. He was a tall man, a thin spare-faced man, a very active man, he seemed to have some influence over them. One of the strikers gave me that, [indicating paper.] I understood it was from a principal one of them, at the time.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. How long did it take you to raise that force of yours?

A. It took me all day. 1 never saw such apathy or cowardice among the citizens.

Q. They did not appear to be anxious?

A. Men that should have done their duty, as citizens, were promenading Fifth avenue, and it was very difficult to get citizens. I must say to the credit of the bar, that they did their duty.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Will you give us the names of some of the lawyers that were members of that company?

A. Colonel Haymaker was one of them, Mr. Harper was another--there was quite a number, Dr. Sutton was one, he was second in command. I have the names of most of them.

Q. I believe you find lawyers and doctors among the best citizens, as a general thing?

A. We do our duty, if we can.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Could you have got fifty or sixty good men, with rifles and ammunition, at the time that you and Bishop Tuigg went up to remonstrate with the mob?

A. We could not--not at that time. We had been ineffectual all day to organize a company, and there was no arms to be had yet; there was troops at the old city hall, but there seemed to be nobody in command to do anything, to take the responsibility, there seemed to be really no person at the head of anything.

By Mr. Means:

Q. This whole machine appeared to have no head?

A. Yes; it appeared, as I said before, it appeared that the mayor was indifferent. He said that it was the railroad company that was running this thing, and he would let them run it.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. You say there was troops at the city hall. How many, and who were they--what organization?

A. There was part of a company of the Nineteenth regiment--a company there of the Nineteenth regiment. I forget who had charge of them. I know the gentleman very well, but I cannot think of his name. He went out afterwards in command of one of the regiments to the east from here. A tall, nice-looking young man. He had charge of the regiment. Howard, I think it was--Hartley Howard, I think, was the gentleman.

By Mr. Means:

Q. Had the mayor intimated to you that the railroad officials had taken this matter into their own hands?

A. They had interfered with him in executing an order. They had interfered in arresting some man. He had not acted as promptly as they thought. It appears that Mr. Hampton and Dalzell--I think he used the names jointly--had taken these writs from him and given them into the hands of the sheriff.

By Mr. Means:

Q. And that he would not interfere?

A. Yes, sir.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. You said a while ago that the sheriff had run away. How did you know he had run away?

A. He was not to be found anywhere. I had not seen him that day. I heard he had left. They had threatened to burn his house, and he had left the city. As the sheriff is a man subject to heart disease, I presume it was his duty not to risk his life amongst them. I heard there was a strong feeling against him, and he had left. I had not seen the sheriff after that day.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. What day was this you were speaking of?

A. That was on Sunday.

Q. Did you see him there on Saturday with the troops?

A. No, sir; I did see the sheriff on Saturday.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. You stated in your speech to the people that you had been informed by those who led the strike that they would manage the matter prudently, so as to have no trouble. Who were those parties that informed you they were leading the strike? Can you give us the names?

A. I can ascertain the names of some of them, but I don't know the names now. I don't remember them. There was one little man very active. His brother keeps a drug store at the corner of Twenty-eighth and Penn streets. He seemed to be very active amongst them.

Q. Do you know his name?

A. No, sir; I can find out his name. I can find out the names of several of them. I think I have them written down. This gent--I thought his name was attached to that paper--was a city man, very active. He seemed to be the leading spirit amongst them, but I found he was the man that brought that document there.

Q. He is not the one that signed it?

A. No, sir.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. How do you account for the apathy or cowardice that existed in the city about going out to take steps to stop this?

A. The only way I can account for it is that there was a feeling amongst the people that these men had been treated very unjustly by the railroad company; that it had reduced their wages down to a starvation point, and that they had been treated unjustly. There has been a feeling here more or less ever since I have been in Pittsburgh--twelve years--since the war, against the railroad company, on account of its unjust actions against the mercantile interests of Pittsburgh. There has always been more or less of that kind of feeling against the company, as I told the Governor in my interview with him on the Sunday night that he was here. That feeling has existed against Tom Scott and the railroad company. The overbearing manner of their officials, and their want of making any compromise whatever, or showing any disposition whatever to compromise with their employés; that has been the feeling engendered in this city for years.

Q. How extensive is that disposition?

A. It is amongst almost the whole class of people, intelligent as well as ignorant, that feeling has existed.

Q. The business men and professional men?

A. The business men--many of the business men--have been bitter enemies of the road on account of the discrimination in freights that has existed. That feeling has permeated the whole community--it permeated the whole community, and I had that same feeling and that same antagonism to the road myself. As I told the Governor, Tom Scott should come down from his empyrean and mingle amongst the people, and he should assert his right of being Governor of the State, and not Tom Scott.

Q. What reply did the Governor make?

A. The Governor made one of his bland smiles.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. He is a good listener?

A. Yes; that was up in the hotel where he stopped the Sunday night.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. In your negotiations, mingling with the strikers and endeavoring to adjust matters, did you ascertain the reason or the cause of the strike?

A. This was the cause that I stated, just what is set forth in this paper, [indicating paper,] that was the cause, and that was what they wanted, an adjustment on that basis.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. Did any one sign that paper setting forth their grievances?

A. Only I had a meeting with them. I wrote down what they wanted.

Q. You wrote that down yourself?

A. They would not permit anybody, they had confidence in me or they wouldn't have entrusted me. They saw I was disposed to do what was right. I acted prudently with them.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Were any of the strikers, that is the railroad employés, who first struck, engaged in this arson, burning, and pillaging?

A. The persons whom I saw engaged in this arson business, and the crowd that I addressed on Sunday were rioters. They appeared to me to be all strangers. They were not really citizens of Pittsburgh. They appeared to me to be all strangers. There was no strikers. I saw none of the strikers that I knew, whose countenances I would remember amongst the rioters. They appeared to keep aloof. They appeared to keep away, and when we wanted to find them or have any conversation with them, we had our meeting down at their place. The bishop and the delegation of citizens from this committee of public safety, went down to meet them away down at their head-quarters, at Twenty-eighth street, where we had a conference with them. They were perfectly powerless, yet disposed to do all they could to save the property and suppress the riot.

Q. Who were the men engaged in this arson and burning?

A. That is more than I can tell you who they were. They appeared to be a class of men I had never seen before.

Q. Were they mill men?

A. Many of them looked like laboring men. Most of them were young men, reckless young fellows, half drunk, and of a class you would call roughs, which you will find always around cities and places where there is anything going on, you don't know who they are--they appeared to be all young men.

Q. From the works about the city?