Part 33

A. That I cannot say. We were ordered away below that again.

Q. What became of the crowd when the troops came out?

A. They ran pell mell, and fell over each other. The troops could have marched down Liberty street and drove them. The mob were cowards when daylight shown on them. They had plenty of guns, but not much ammunition for them. They were drunk, and that was what gave courage to the most of them.

Q. Those drunken men, when daylight came, what became of them?

A. They staggered off, and went to sleep or something. They had plenty of liquor.

Q. How many were engaged in firing the cars during the day--Sunday?

A. Not over ten or twelve men. Some of them were boys fourteen or fifteen years of age. The most conspicuous man was a man with one arm.

Q. Were you close?

A. I was; at Twenty-first and Liberty street.

Q. Did you follow down with your department?

A. When the fire broke out down below amongst the cars we were ordered further down. We went then to Twelfth and Liberty streets, that is from Twenty-first to Twelfth.

Q. Was any effort made by either the police or the militia or any person to stop this gang who were firing the cars?

A. None at all. There were plenty of people outside in sympathy with those who were setting fire, and who were handing drinks up to them, and some women were carrying coffee, and handing it to them?

Q. What class of women?

A. They looked like Irish women.

Q. What classes of men were about that day who appeared to be in sympathy with them?

A. It generally was the Irish. Most every person that spoke to us about not playing on the fire was Irish, that is, had the brogue on the tongue.

Q. Were they railroad men, or did they belong to any particular class in the city. Mill men, or any particular class of people?

A. I didn't recognize any of them that I knew personally.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. You say they were handing coffee up to those people. It must have been made in the vicinity of the fire?

A. Yes; or else carried some distance. It appeared to be hot coffee.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where was the mayor during the day Sunday?

A. I cannot say; I didn't see him at all.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. After the soldiers marched out the round-house, if they had torn up the track, would it have prevented any further firing west?

A. Previous to the round-house being set on fire?

Q. Afterwards?

A. It would; but they would have followed on down.

Q. But couldn't the soldiers have checked them there?

A. Yes; I think the soldiers could have cleared the whole track after daylight on Sunday, cleared the whole track.

Q. The soldiers or the mayor's posse?

A. I don't know about the mayor's posse. They didn't appear to be so much afraid of the posse as of the guns.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. I understand you to say that no attempt was made by either the civil authorities or the military authorities to stop the fire on Sunday, or to clear the track?

A. There was no attempt at all.

Q. Of course, you cannot tell what would have been the result, if an attempt had been made--it is a mere matter of opinion as to what would have been the result?

A. I believe so; but that is my opinion. I feel certain that they could.

Q. You spoke of the police force not being organized. What was the organization of the fire department?

A. The organization of the fire department was perfect. All the men were at their posts all the time, ready to do what they were ordered to do.

Q. How many were at their posts?

A. All the men that were on the force. The force had been reduced, but some of the men that had been put off were helping.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. You say those members of the department that had been put off didn't refuse to assist you?

A. Not at all!

By Mr. Lindsey?

Q. How many men were discharged from the fire department?

A. Some twenty-two.

Q. How many of those men came back to your assistance?

A. Through the whole department I cannot say, but of our company I saw a couple of them. Of course, they had their favorite companies. And then there were plenty of volunteers of the old members of the volunteer department.

Q. Who appoints the fire commissioners?

A. They are elected by city councils.

Q. They have control of the fire department?

A. Yes.

Q. State whether the fire commissioners are subject to the control of any higher body?

A. I don't think they are. I think they are given full power.

Q. Do you know what the law is in regard to that?

A. I don't. I have never examined it.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. What appeared to be the disposition of the crowd surrounding that fire--did they appear to be in sympathy with the rioters?

A. That I cannot say.

Q. Some of the crowd were gathered there out of curiosity?

A. I would have them all around the engine. It was a regular hum, just like bees--everybody seemed to be talking.

Q. Was there any general expression against the soldiery?

A. I believe there was, after they fired on the mob. I believe some classes of men had a feeling against the soldiers, but I believe the better class of citizens had not.

Q. You say the soldiers could have cleared the tracks and dispersed the mob, when they came out of the round-house?

A. They could--if they had opened with the Gatling guns, there would not have been a soul in sight for fifteen squares.

Q. Do you know whether the officers of the soldiery in the round-house had any communication with anybody outside, during the night?

A. I don't think they had, to my knowledge.

Q. None of them were passing back and forth, between the round-house and outside?

A. That I cannot say. I was not close enough to it.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. The soldiers had no means of knowing that the crowd had become dispersed, or weakened, or drunken?

A. I don't think they had. I think the soldiers thought the whole community was against them. If they had known that they could have come out, and drove the mob down, I think they would have done it.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Officer Coulston has testified, that the round-house was not on fire where the troops came out--that he went through the building. Could he have gone through those buildings soon after the troops evacuated them?

A. He couldn't. He might have gone into the carpenter shop, or the paint shop, but the flames were coming out of all the windows of the round-house. Nobody could have lived there.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Could a man have got on to the engines as they stood in the stalls?

A. He might, in one part by the carpenter shop, but I don't think he could have lived in any part of it, on account of the heat.

* * * * *

Daniel J. Eckels, _sworn with the uplifted hand_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. 135 Second avenue.

Q. Were you connected with the fire department in July last?

A. Yes.

Q. What position did you hold?

A. I was engineer of company No. 2.

Q. State when you arrived at the fire, and how long you remained there?

A. Probably between twelve and one o'clock on Sunday morning. We could not go into service. We waited there on the street by the Independence engine-house. We stayed at the fire until after the troops came out of the round-house.

Q. During the day--Sunday?

A. Yes.

Q. And Sunday night?

A. Yes.

Q. Until Monday morning?

A. Yes.

Q. Were you assisted by the police force at any time?

A. Not that I know of.

Q. Did you see any policemen about there?

A. I cannot say that I did; but I did hear that at one place where we were working the mayor was around, but I did not see him.

Q. Did you see Mayor McCarthy at any time?

A. Not that I know of.

Q. Was any attempt made during the entire day of Sunday to stop the men who were engaged in the burning?

A. Not that I know of.

* * * * *

J. F. Rivers, _sworn with the uplifted hand_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. On Mulberry street, above Twenty-fifth.

Q. What is your business?

A. I had been a detective in the employ of the city of Pittsburgh previous to July 12.

Q. What position did you hold at the time of the riot?

A. I held no position; but I lived within three squares of the scene, and consequently had considerable interest in the riot. I was away from the city; but I came back on Friday evening. I heard that there was a strike among the railroad men, and, as I knew a great many of them, I was very much interested in their behalf. I went up to the upper round-house on Saturday morning, and there I saw a great many railroad men, and a good many outsiders, that I knew were attracted there for, probably, the same reason I was. They were very orderly, and I saw no trouble there. It did not look as though there was going to be any trouble. I came down to the city and saw the troops at Union depot towards noon, and went up to my home, and saw the troops up on the hill. I paid no more attention to it until towards evening, when I heard the troops had fired upon the crowd. Then I went up there. I was trying to find my two boys. The crowd was then gathering to the number of thousands, and the people were very much excited, and expressed themselves that the troops ought to be cleaned out, and all such language as that. I went away from there, and towards dark I went out towards Twenty-fifth street, and saw the troops had been moved from the Twenty-eighth street position to the round-house, or square-house. The carpenter shop is on one side of Twenty-sixth street, and the round-house and office of the assistant superintendent is on the left hand side opposite. The round-house is a little back of the office, and the outer circle of the round-house comes on the line of Liberty street, and there is a railroad track in front of it belonging to the Valley Railroad Company. The crowd was in front of there; the soldiers were in the round-house and in the carpenter shop. The crowd was there, and probably thirty men were jeering at the soldiers. I did not know any of them; but I went in among the men and I said, "boys, if those men come out you will have to go away, as you do not have any business here." I said, "these men are strangers, and you ought to treat them differently." They said, "we will have them out if we have got to roast them out." I felt some interest in the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, and in the interest of good behavior I come down the street, and tried to find some railroad officers to communicate my belief that there would be a fire and trouble. I tried to find some of the railroad officers, but could not do it. It was then after dark--after night. I went towards my home, and I met the crowd on Liberty street going to Union depot. I went up to one man I knew, who was tried in court last week, and I said "the railroad company has conceded to the demands of their employés." I had understood something of that sort. He said "it was too damned thin," and went into the depot, and a short time after there was an alarm of fire. At the corner of Twenty-fifth and Penn avenue the Independence apparatus was stopped by men pointing pistols, and saying if they proceeded any further they would kill their horses. I spoke to the parties that did that loud talking, and they said it did not make any difference--that they had no right to go up and throw water on the railroad property. I said: "These men are responding to a call, and they must obey, and you should not interfere with them." I then went away to see the extent of the fire. I went to Twenty-eighth street, and between there and Twenty-ninth, on Liberty, I saw the burning cars running down the grade towards the Twenty-eighth street crossing. But a switch was turned wrong or something, and the cars ran off the track. They set fire to what is known as the sand-house, and that is the first building that caught fire, and from that the fire communicated to the upper round-house, I think. The fire burned very slow. It appeared to me to be started by people that wanted to plunder, which they did, for they carried out great quantities of goods that day and the next day. The fire burned very slow--I never saw a fire burn so slow in my life. I did not see whether the fire department went into service that night or not. Next morning I saw the troops as they came up Liberty street on to Twenty-fifth, and marched out Penn avenue. I did not see much of any mob at that time. Then the fire department went into service. I saw no person particularly setting things on fire, but I saw two men coming from under a car off the track, in front of the round-house, just at Twenty-sixth street. The car was loaded with liquor, and just shortly after they came out and went away the car caught fire, and then the round-house and the shop and the offices and all caught fire.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Before or after the troops came out?

A. A portion of it--the square shop that they came out of was set on fire afterwards. The building was L shaped, and there was a fire in the rear of it, and there might have been a fire--but I won't be positive--but there might have been a fire in the L that ran towards the road, but none in the L on Liberty street when they came out; and they had made some efforts to protect themselves against fire, because I discovered some leather hose, that the railroad company had in the premises, after the troops came out. The fire then kept burning down gradually on Liberty street down the railroad, and the people kept carrying off the goods all day Sunday. Down at the Union depot--previous to that catching fire--I was in there, and saw that the parties had moved as many of the goods as they could, and I saw no person trying to stop them. They set the depot master's office on fire, and then a burning car was run down into the depot, and that fired it. I saw the troops marching down Twenty-fifth street towards Penn, and saw them march up Penn.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Can you tell us what portion of the round-house, or the buildings attached to it, were on fire when they left?

A. I do not know, but there might have been a fire in the rear of the round-house--the portion of it that is next to the main line might have been afire--and as I said before, this L of the carpenter shop might have been afire previous to the vacation, but I do not know it; but, from my recollection of it, the fire burned so slow that there must have been a fire in there before they got out, because when it caught from the burning car on Liberty street, the whole building appeared to be enveloped at once.

Q. Did you see the troops fired on as they went out?

A. I saw one man fire, I think, twice. He attempted to run into my yard, and I kicked him out, and I said "if you want to fire on those men go out and do it, but you cannot do it here." He ran out and shot at them with a pistol. Somebody returned the fire, and he quit following them any further.

Q. Did you know him?

A. No; I never saw him before. I know a great many men here; but I knew very few men that took part in the riot.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. You were around through the crowd?

A. Yes.

Q. And could judge of the crowd?

A. The men I saw jeering the soldiers penned in there, I did not know any of them, nor I do not think they knew me, because I think if they had known I was an officer, or had been one, I think they would have made it lively for me, because I have the idea that they would have thought I was there in the line of my business. I did not know any of them. But this man, Richardson, that was tried last week, I saw him and spoke to him about half past nine o'clock on Saturday night, and told him that the railroad company had conceded to the wishes of the men, and he said that was too damned thin, and went on.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. In your experience as a detective in this city, you have gained an extensive knowledge of the people?

A. Yes.

Q. And from the general appearance of that mob you think they were strangers, and did not belong in the city.

A. Yes; that is, the ringleaders. I was at one time on the Pennsylvania railroad, a number of years ago, and in consequence of that, I know a great many railroad men, employés of the road, and I saw none of them engaged in this riot. When I first went up there, in the morning, I saw a great many I knew, railroad men, but they were all quiet and orderly.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Did you have any conversation with them as to the reasons or causes that led to the strike?

A. Yes; their grievances were, as far as they told me, that they had been required to put on double-headers, and the reduction in the number of their men that they would lose so many men, as they called it, in a crew.

Q. Did they express any intention of using violence?

A. Not that I heard. I did not hear a man say a word that would tend to show he was going to use any violence. I remarked to four or five of them standing together: "If the mayor sends his police here and orders you fellows away from here, you have no business here on this property, and you must go."

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. What day was that?

A. On Saturday morning, about ten o'clock.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Did you hear any of those railroad men speak of a preconcerted arrangement for a general strike through the country?

A. I never did.

Q. At that time?

A. No.

Q. Nor since?

A. No.

* * * * *

Michael Hannigan, _sworn with uplifted hand_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. No. 45, Grant street.

Q. What was your business in July last.

A. I was acting foreman of engine company No. 2.

Q. What time did you visit the scene of the riot?

A. Between one and two o'clock on Sunday morning.

Q. At what point did you stop first?

A. We answered box No. 62, and then the chief gave us orders to stop at Twenty-third and Penn, and not make any attachment until we got further orders.

Q. How large was the crowd at that time?

A. A great many men were scattered along the street as we were going to the box. The fire was down as far as Twenty-third street by that time. By daylight it got warm at Twenty-third and Liberty, and the chief got permission from the mob to lay a line of hose so that a foundry there might not take fire. We afterwards went to Twenty-sixth street, but could not get across there as the soldiers were firing across Twenty-sixth street.

Q. What time was that?

A. An hour after we were at Twenty-third street.

Q. After daylight?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you visit the round-house after the troops left?

A. It was impossible for anybody to go there. The upper building was completely burned when we went into service. It is a square building.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Attached to or in close proximity to the round-house?

A. Yes. The roof had fallen in when we laid the line of hose. That was in ten minutes after the soldiers had left the round-house.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. How long before the round-house was consumed by fire?

A. I cannot tell you that.

Q. Did the soldiers march out in good order?

A. I did not see the soldiers except at a distance.

Q. Did you remain on duty during the day Sunday?

A. Yes; and up until Monday morning at ten o'clock.

Q. Had the fire stopped when you left?

A. Yes, We were on Washington street.

Q. What stopped the crowd from plundering and burning?

A. I do not know that.

Q. After they fired Union depot, did they fire any other property?

A. There was a depot fired on the west side.

Q. How far down towards the city did the crowd come?

A. It was down there on Seventh avenue.

Q. How large a crowd was on Seventh avenue?

A. From the Rush House down to Seventh avenue--ten thousand men--you could hardly get through.

Q. Were there any police there to arrest the crowd?

A. I did not see any.

Q. Did you see the crowd when they dispersed from that point?

A. No.

Q. Were you assisted at any time during the fire by the police?

A. No.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Were you protected?

A. No.

Q. Did you ask for protection?

A. No; the mob had a cannon planted at Twenty-seventh street, pointed right at the engine, and they said if you play on the railroad property we will raise you. We did not want to be raised.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Who made those threats?

A. That I can not tell you.

Q. Was any effort made by the mob to set fire to private property, that you saw?

A. I did not see any of that.

Q. On Sunday night they had finished all the railroad property?

A. I think the last they set afire was that depot on Grant street.

Q. What became of the mob after that time?

A. I do not know, but I heard several citizens express themselves that they were getting tired of this work. We were then on Bedford avenue. They said they were going too far with it.

Q. Citizens said that?

A. Yes.

Q. What citizens made those remarks?

A. I do not recollect.

Q. Where were the mob during Sunday night?

A. I did not see any of the mob at the time we went out. I saw a great many people on the street. We had to go very slow. They were using all kinds of threats.

Q. When you left, on Monday morning, was everything quiet?

A. Everything was quiet then.

Q. Where had these people gone?

A. I do not know.

Q. Did you see the mayor about at any time?

A. Once, at the corner of Twentieth and Liberty streets, standing against a gas post.

Q. What time was that?

A. In the afternoon--I do not recollect the hour.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Do you know whether the round-house was on fire when the military left it?

A. Yes; at least that building was.

Q. How long after the military left did you go to the round-house?

A. While I walked from the corner of Twenty-fourth up to Twenty-sixth street.

* * * * *

Colonel D. L. Smith, _sworn with the uplifted hand_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. In the city of Allegheny.

Q. Do you hold any official position?

A. I am one of the aldermen of that city.

Q. Where were you at the time of the riots in July last?

A. I was at my home in Allegheny city.

Q. What occurred there in regard to the riots, that you have any knowledge of?

A. About half past five o'clock in the evening, on the day that the soldiers fired in the crowd, my office boy came to my office and reported to me in great excitement, that the soldiers had fired on and killed a number of the citizens. I then went to the scene of the trouble, and remained there until about eight o'clock in the evening.

Q. What time did you get there?

A. At six o'clock. The troops had just gone into the round-house as I got there. I returned to my office after eight o'clock, and when the cars were fired at eleven o'clock, I saw the light and heard the alarm, and immediately went to the scene, and remained there until four o'clock in the morning. I then returned home, and remained at home until one o'clock, and then came to Pittsburgh again and remained until nine o'clock.

Q. What did you observe?

A. One or two wounded men being carried from the ground. I observed a disorganized mass of people standing in groups, numbering perhaps six or eight hundred, discussing the fire and passing their comments on it.

Q. This crowd of people you saw there--of what class was it composed?

A. There were some few railroad employés, but the most of them I recognized as mill hands from the different rolling-mills. I knew many of them personally.

Q. A portion of them from your city?

A. Yes; attracted by excitement to the fire. Some remained there.

Q. What were those mill hands doing when you went there?

A. Discussing the question involved in the railroad strikes, and some of them were using threats. One man remarked, if the firing went on, that there wouldn't be a dollar's worth of railroad property left in the county of Allegheny at nine o'clock the next morning. Quite a number of persons I recognized as persons I knew to be workingmen from other sections. I know a great many of the Pittsburgh workingmen.

Q. You say from other sections?