Part 32
Q. I suppose all the private property burned caught from the heat of the railroad cars?
A. Yes; the only private property that was burned was on Washington street.
Q. Did those houses catch fire, or were they set on fire?
A. They caught from the Union depot.
Q. You saved the private property here by wetting down the buildings?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you receive any protection from the police force?
A. No; we did not.
Q. At any time?
A. No; not to my knowledge.
Q. You were with the department?
A. I was.
Q. At any time did you receive any protection from the police?
A. No.
Q. If you had been protected by the police, could you have cut the fire and stopped it?
A. We could, at any place.
Q. How many men would it have taken to protect you?
A. I think twenty-five or fifty men, at the outside, could have stopped that burning on Sunday morning. I say that, because there could have been no mistakes. Because, if they had shot some of them down, they could not have made any mistakes. They had no business there.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you see the mayor there during the day?
A. I saw the mayor there.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Was the mayor making any effort to keep back the crowd?
A. I did not see any force of policemen that day, but the mayor appeared to be moving up and down Liberty street. I saw him talking to the rioters.
By Mr. Means:
Q. After the Philadelphia troops left the round-house, how long was it before it was on fire?
A. It was, I think, on fire when they left, because we went up there right away.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You say that the round-house was on fire, but we have evidence that it was not?
A. The offices that stood between were certainly on fire, because I worked that stream myself, and the heat got so intense at one time, that we had to move the engine away. The round-house could not help being on fire, for that oil sent down would have put anything on fire.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you see the troops come out?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were the burning cars around there?
A. They had been sending down the burning cars sometime before.
Q. Then it was afire when they came out?
A. As soon as the troops came out, the chief engineer ordered some apparatus there, and we went there at once. There was almost an entire square on Liberty street, all lumber yards and frame shanties, on fire. And this machine shop was on fire. I am not positive about the two round-houses at that time. I was working there myself.
Q. How many men, do you judge, were engaged in this burning?
A. I cannot tell you that--a great many.
Q. Actively engaged--that is, I want to distinguish between the persons standing around in crowds on the pavements looking on, and the parties actively engaged in the burning?
A. When I was down on Liberty street, there appeared to be a great many people on the railroad track. Of course, they were pillaging then--it was plain--any person could see it. Every now and then you could see the flames bursting out from the cars.
Q. Did you see this crowd--was it an organized effort to follow up the burning--did it seem to be followed systematically?
A. Yes; I think it was organized.
Q. Can you form any idea as to how many were actively engaged?
A. I cannot. I was not on the railroad track that day. Men and women and everything else were on the railroad track.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Behind the fire?
A. Yes; but they kept in front, too.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. They were pillaging and carrying the things away?
A. Yes; I got down to Eleventh street, and went to the Pan-Handle railroad yard, and they were breaking the cars open and setting the things on fire. I said to them, don't do it, or you will set the city on fire, and they said they did not care a damn if they did.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you know those men?
A. No; I never saw them before or since. On Saturday evening I was sitting in front of the engine house, and some men came up in front and said, "If there is a fire to-night, I suppose you will turn out." I said, "Certainly," when he said, "If you turn out there will be trouble. We will cut your hose and smash your apparatus."
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did he talk as if he came to warn you for that purpose?
A. Yes; he talked as if he came for the purpose of letting us know that. There was a great deal of feeling that night.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you have none of your engines in service before the troops left?
A. No.
Q. You played on neither private property nor railroad property?
A. No.
Q. Were the crowd generally disorderly?
A. Yes.
Q. Making threats?
A. O, yes; that they would kill the firemen, and one thing and another?
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Did you see a proclamation or any official document of the mayor of the city of Pittsburgh ordering the rum shops and drinking saloons to be closed on Saturday or Sunday?
A. I do not know of seeing it. If a proclamation was issued on Saturday, I was not in the city on Saturday afternoon.
Q. Or any proclamation ordering the crowd to disperse?
A. I did not.
Q. No proclamation calling for a police force?
A. No.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you see the shooting on Saturday night?
A. No; what occurred in the evening I didn't see. I was up there in the morning, but out of the city in the afternoon.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. If a determined effort had been made on Thursday by the mayor with the police force that he had at hand, could he have dispersed the crowd?
A. I do not know of any reason why he should not.
Q. On Friday, do you think so?
A. Yes.
Q. Could he on Saturday, up until the time of the arrival of the militia?
A. It could not have been done on Saturday morning, because the mill men had all commenced to gather.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Do you think he could have quelled the trouble without calling on the militia--that the police force could have suppressed the riot?
A. That is something I do not pretend to answer. The militia were called out a day or two previous to that. But I think this, that it was unfortunate for this shooting to have occurred in Pittsburgh. My sympathies were with the strikers, but not up to the point of rioting.
Q. You say you thought on Saturday morning the crowd could not have been dispersed without the militia?
A. No.
Q. By the police force?
A. No.
Q. Could the mayor or the sheriff have raised a posse, either in the city or in the county, including both, sufficient to have dispersed the crowd?
A. I think that the mayor of any city of the size of the city of Pittsburgh ought to be able, with his police force, to break up any assemblage of men.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. After the sheriff called upon the Governor for troops, didn't that intensify the feeling in Pittsburgh?
A. It did. I do not think that there was any necessity for that, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State what efforts were made to start trains that day?
A. On Friday afternoon no effort was made. The passenger trains came in on Saturday morning. The troops were mixed with the crowd, and no effort was made to start trains, I went to Allegheny City, and learned of the shooting while coming across the river. I happened to be away when the fun commenced.
At this point the committee adjourned to meet to-morrow morning, at ten o'clock.
MORNING SESSION.
ORPHANS' COURT ROOM, PITTSBURGH, _Wednesday, February 13, 1878_.
Pursuant to adjournment, the committee assembled at ten o'clock A.M., this day, and continued taking of testimony.
The first witness examined was:
* * * * *
Henry Coates, _sworn with the uplifted hand_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you a member of the fire department last July?
A. No; I was a member of the police force.
Q. What position did you hold?
A. I was a lieutenant.
Q. How many men did you have control of?
A. I had forty men that night of Saturday.
Q. Where were you on Thursday?
A. Sleeping. We had no day force in the city at that time.
Q. Were you not around during the day, Thursday?
A. No.
Q. Where were you on Friday?
A. In bed.
Q. During the night of Thursday, where were you?
A. On duty from Eleventh street to Thirty-third street.
Q. Taking in Twenty-eighth street?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there any disturbance--any overt act?
A. No; but there was a collection of people. Sometimes there would not be over thirty or forty.
Q. What class of people?
A. Railroaders, particularly.
Q. What was the conduct of the people?
A. They were quiet. There was no trouble at all.
Q. Did they remain there?
A. They would pass up and down, talking among themselves.
Q. Hid you have any conversation with them?
A. No.
Q. Did you ask them why they were there?
A. No; it was not an infrequent occurrence to see men there. It is a principal street to go up to go to work.
Q. On Friday night how large was the crowd?
A. One hundred or so.
Q. Were they railroad men on Friday night?
A. Yes; principally. They appeared to be very quiet talking among themselves.
Q. What were they saying?
A. That they did not let me hear.
Q. Did you report to the chief of police or the mayor?
A. I made a report every morning.
Q. You reported that crowd to him?
A. Yes.
Q. But received no orders?
A. No; no orders to disperse them or anything else.
Q. Were the saloons open in that part of the city during Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Were they closed at all?
A. I ordered them to close on Saturday evening.
Q. At what time?
A. About eight o'clock.
Q. During Saturday night, describe what took place?
A. I do not know that I can.
Q. You were not on duty during the firing?
A. No; that took place before we went on duty.
Q. How large was the crowd?
A. They began to come--three or four hundred--or two hundred--squads coming from different places all during Saturday night and Sunday morning. Nearly everybody in the city was in that neighborhood--or the biggest part of them.
Q. What time did the burning commence?
A. In the neighborhood of ten and half or a quarter to eleven o'clock. A crowd had congregated around the fire-alarm box, and would not let the men pull it.
Q. Where did the fire break out first?
A. I was about Twenty-eighth street when it broke out. I should judge between Thirty-first and Thirty-second street on the railroad.
Q. What was set on fire?
A. Oil, from the appearance of the smoke.
Q. What did they do with the cars after they set them on fire?
A. They cut them loose and ran them.
Q. How many men were engaged in that?
A. I cannot say that at all.
Q. Were you near the round-house during the night?
A. Yes; with the mayor of the city. I went to Twenty-seventh street, and passed the round-house, and tried to get in a place where it was reported a lady was shot--opposite the round-house. That was after the firing had taken place--about eleven o'clock.
Q. Did you succeed in getting in?
A. No; it was in a small saloon, and I had notified them in the early part of the evening to close, and for that reason they would not let us in.
Q. Were you there on Sunday morning?
A. Yes; until after the troops left.
Q. Did you see them march out?
A. Yes.
Q. Where did they come out?
A. On Twenty-sixth street--out of the gate.
Q. Did they march in good order?
A. Yes.
Q. Were they fired upon?
A. Not in our neighborhood.
Q. By the crowd?
A. No.
Q. How large a crowd was there or around there when they marched out?
A. I saw one citizen.
Q. Did you know him?
A. Yes.
Q. Who was he?
A. Captain ---- McMunn. There had been quite a crowd before they filed on to Penn street, but they all broke.
Q. They broke when they saw the troops?
A. Yes; the cry was raised when they came out that they were going down to the Union depot, and the mob undertook to get down and cut them off.
Q. The mob broke and ran towards the river?
A. Any place where they could run away.
Q. You mean to say that the mob ran from the military, when they came out?
A. They did.
Q. How long was it before the mob re-assembled?
A. I did not see them re-assemble.
Q. Were you there during the day?
A. Shortly after that I had to come to the central station and take charge of the prisoners we had arrested.
Q. How many prisoners did you have arrested up there?
A. I cannot say the number.
Q. Can you give us an estimate?
A. About seventy-five, I suppose.
Q. What were they arrested for?
A. For having goods in their possession--cloth, and everything they could get hold of.
Q. Did you take them before the mayor?
A. Before Acting-Mayor Butler.
Q. What did he do with them?
A. Some of them were dismissed, and some were sent to jail, and some were fined.
Q. Some were dismissed?
A. Yes.
Q. Why?
A. That I cannot tell you.
Q. Was there no evidence against them?
A. Evidence of having goods in their possession, certainly. We arrested some of them with guns.
Q. Muskets?
A. Yes, and shot guns.
Q. Were any of those dismissed?
A. That I cannot say.
Q. About how many of those were dismissed?
A. That I cannot tell you.
Q. What time did you return to the scene of the riot?
A. After getting through with the prisoners, I was then ordered by the mayor to report to the chief engineer of the fire department for duty.
Q. What did you do?
A. I did all I could. Being an engineer by trade, I took spells at running an engine and worked with them after the neighborhood of seven o'clock that evening.
Q. Were you interfered with by the mob?
A. I was not.
Q. Whereabouts did you work?
A. Generally at the engine.
Q. At what points?
A. Twenty-fifth and Twenty-sixth, and Seventeenth and Sixteenth streets. And from there I went with the fuel wagon.
Q. Did you receive any assistance from the police?
A. They were there, and doing all they could, but the police was small at that time.
Q. Were you at the Union depot when it was set on fire?
A. No.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. Those goods--what became of them?
A. They were turned over to the commissioners, I understood.
Q. They were goods taken out the cars?
A. Yes.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Why were those prisoners taken before Deputy Mayor Butler?
A. I cannot answer that question.
Q. Where did he sit?
A. In the central station, where we usually held the mayor's court.
Q. The mayor's office?
A. It is the central station-house.
Q. Where the mayor holds his court?
A. Yes.
Q. Where was Mayor McCarthy at that time?
A. I cannot tell you that.
Q. You say the police gave the fire department assistance and protection?
A. I say they assisted, so far as I saw.
* * * * *
William J. Kennedy, _sworn with the uplifted hand_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What is your occupation?
A. Foreman of engine company No. 3.
Q. Did you occupy that position last July?
A. Yes.
Q. State what part you took in putting out the fire that occurred on the night of the 21st--Saturday night?
A. It was eleven o'clock and twenty minutes when the alarm came first. We started out the house, but we were stopped at the grain elevator. But we got through that crowd, and got on to Penn street, when they began firing at us or at our horses.
Q. How many shots were fired?
A. I cannot tell that. It was just firing here and there along the street.
Q. With pistols and guns?
A. With all kinds of arms.
Q. How long was that kept up?
A. All night until daylight.
Q. Go on and tell us what occurred?
A. We turned on to Liberty street, and at Twenty-first and Liberty they hit me with something, and surrounded the horses. Then we turned on to Penn again, but they wouldn't let us move, so we went towards the river and tried to go down to get up further, but they were waiting there. They had some old muskets and carbines and other things, and if we just moved the horses they would come. We changed to different places from one block to another, but they wouldn't let us lay a line, and wouldn't let us throw any water except private property was in danger. We didn't throw any water until after the troops went out of the round-house in the morning.
Q. Were you present when they went out of the round-house?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you at the round-house after they left?
A. Yes.
Q. Was it on fire?
A. Yes. They had to come out. The fire got under them.
Q. Under what part of the round-house?
A. I don't know what part of it, but they set it on fire from Liberty street. They had a hose there, and were throwing water all night. They ran the cars down and tried to set it on fire, but it was all right until the fire got under them.
Q. You say the troops had hose, and kept the fire out until it got under them and drove them out?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know of any oil that was run under them?
A. I don't know that. All I know is, that some liquor was there burning.
Q. How soon did you get to the round-house, after the troops left?
A. As soon as we could.
Q. How extensive was the fire then in the round-house?
A. It was big, and there were lumber yards across the street all afire.
Q. Was the carpenter shop on fire?
A. I don't know whether the carpenter shop was or not.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were any buildings attached to the round-house on fire, or buildings near it?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How large was the crowd when the troops came out?
A. I don't know how large.
Q. What did the crowd do when the troops marched out?
A. They were taking a walk--nobody interfered with the troops. Everybody tried to get out of their road.
Q. And get away?
A. Yes.
Q. In what direction did the crowd go?
A. I don't know.
Q. The crowd didn't attempt to attack the troops?
A. No.
Q. During the day--Sunday and Sunday night--were you interfered with by the crowd in throwing water?
A. Yes--frequently.
Q. To what extent?
A. Different parties kept coming constantly, so that we couldn't do anything. They said: "Don't you throw any water on the railroad property, or we will blow the heads off of you." It was not just one man, but they kept reminding you of it all the time.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. They allowed you to play on private property?
A. Yes; I turned a stream on the cars at Union depot, when I suppose twenty revolvers were shot at me.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you call on the police force for protection?
A. I would have had to call a good while before I would have got any. I didn't see many of them.
Q. Did they offer any protection to you?
A. Not to me, they didn't.
Q. Did Officer Daniel Motts speak to you at any time, offering to protect you?
A. He spoke to me several times during the night, but never offered me any protection. There was no occasion to offer me any, as both the chiefs were there.
Q. And he didn't offer you any protection?
A. No.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did he give you any protection?
A. Not that I know of.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did he tell you, if you would commence playing on a certain point, that the police would protect you?
A. He didn't.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did any police officer?
A. No.
By Mr. Means:
Q. In your examination, you have stated that you went to the round-house as soon as you could, after the troops left?
A. Yes; and went into service.
Q. How long was it after the troops left until you got playing upon the fire at the round-house?
A. I cannot tell you exactly, but it was very quick?
Q. Half an hour?
A. No; it was not ten minutes until we were throwing water.
Q. Then the fire had made considerable progress in the round-house?
A. Yes; and across the street in the lumber yards.
Q. Do you know, of your own personal knowledge, that the fire department did call upon the mayor for protection?
A. I cannot say. I saw the mayor there in a buggy.
Q. He didn't offer you any protection?
A. Not that I know of.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Do you think, with the fire department, you could have cut the fire and stopped it during Sunday, if you had had protection?
A. I don't know whether we could have stopped it, it was on fire in too many different places; but I think we could have picked out twenty-five men and saved Union depot from burning.
Q. Do you mean you could have prevented the mob from firing it?
A. Yes.
Q. With twenty-five policemen?
A. With twenty-five good men of any kind.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Do you mean that it could have been stopped at that time and place?
A. Yes.
Q. And that you could have prevented the spreading of the fire?
A. Yes; if I had had that number of determined men.
Q. Did you see those parties who set Union depot on fire?
A. No.
Q. Was there no effort made when they set the sheds on fire to tear the sheds down and stop the fire?
A. Not that I saw--not by the police, that I saw. We did all we could. We kept following up the fire.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was there no effort made during the day, Sunday, to stop the progress of those men in setting fire to the cars and the depot?
A. That I cannot say.
Q. You were not present when the mayor made a speech to the crowd?
A. No.
* * * * *
John M. Miller, _sworn with the uplifted hand_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. On Second avenue.
Q. What was your connection with the fire department in July last?
A. I was an engineer.
Q. What time did you go to the scene of the fire?
A. About twenty minutes after eleven o'clock.
Q. Saturday night?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you interfered with by the crowd?
A. We were fired at and told to go slow, you sons of bitches, all the way, but nobody struck us. I don't know whether they fired at us or not, but our foreman, I believe, was struck in the back.
Q. Did they strike any of your horses?
A. That I cannot tell. I was behind the engine.
Q. Where did you commence work?
A. We were off with the engine about a square from the fire, and commenced work first at Twenty-sixth street. I don't know where they had the hose placed. They told us not to throw on the railroad property, or they would cut our hose, and they tried to prevent me putting on my suction hose. We had to talk to them, and tell them we were not going to play on the railroad property before they would allow us to make any attachment at all.
Q. How long did you remain at work playing on the fire?
A. We returned home at ten o'clock Monday morning, I think it was.
Q. During the day, Sunday, were you interfered with by the mob?
A. They spoke to us, and a drunken fellow told us, if we played on the railroad property, that they would blow our heads off.
Q. Were you protected by the police?
A. The police was a disorganized body--no two of them were together, I don't believe. I never saw over two together the whole day.
Q. Did you call on the police for protection?
A. I didn't.
Q. Did the police offer you any protection?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Did Officer Daniel Motts say anything to you at any time?
A. Daniel Motts and a man named Coulston came to us before the round-house caught on fire, about one o'clock that night, and asked us what we were standing there for, and not throwing any water. I said that the mob wouldn't allow us, and they said, I believe, they would protect us. I said, I am not the proper person, as the chief is here, and as we have orders to stand here and wait further orders. But the way they spoke to me, I thought it was in a joking way, because the only protection they could offer wouldn't have amounted to anything. I told them I was not the proper person, that the chief was there.
Q. Did they ask you to play upon any particular point of the fire, and say they would protect you?
A. No; they didn't. The cars were burning above the round-house at the time, but the round-house was not burning at the time.
Q. Did you see the troops come out?
A. No; but I saw them after they came out.
Q. How soon did you get up there after the troops went out?
A. In about twenty minutes or twenty-five minutes.
Q. Was the round-house on fire when you got there?
A. It was burning bad.
Q. Was it burning before they came out?
A. Yes; that is what chased them out. I understood afterwards that they came out of the carpenter shop.
Q. Was the carpenter shop burned afterwards?