Part 24
Q. What did you do with them?
A. We brought them down in the morning, in the "black maria," to the Central station, but Deputy Mayor Butler, I believe, discharged most of them, and fined some of them.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Do you know how many were fined?
A. I cannot tell. I did not stay to the hearing myself.
Q. What is Mr. Butler's first name?
A. Joseph.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Your people took these men up, going away with goods?
A. Yes. We put them in the Twelfth Ward station, and then put them in the "black maria," and brought them to the Central station, and heard them there. Mayor McCarthy was up all night, and he was tired, and he deputized Deputy Mayor Butler to hear them.
Q. And he discharged them?
A. Yes; he discharged a good many of them.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Do you know whether those people were citizens of Pittsburgh, or people that had just run in?
A. Some were citizens of Pittsburgh and some were strangers.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did the mayor or anybody else say to you, at any time, that it was necessary for the railroad officials to get out of town--that their lives were in jeopardy.
A. I never heard any such expression coming from the mayor.
Q. That it was necessary for the railroad officials to get out of town--that their lives were in jeopardy? Was that said to you by the mayor or by anybody else?
A. I am satisfied that I didn't hear any expression like that coming from the mayor, but I heard talk like that on the street.
Q. From whom?
A. Most any of the crowd that would be congregated together would be talking about this thing.
Q. Citizens of Pittsburgh?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you name any of them?
A. Not now. It was the general talk. General Pearson, I guess, was named in such talk more often than the railroad officers.
Q. But you heard that talk about the railroad officials?
A. Yes; that it would not be safe for them to show up.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. One question about this plundering and thieving: Were those parties discharged the same day that they were arrested--on Sunday?
A. The same day--Sunday.
Q. Then the arrests amounted virtually to nothing?
A. Yes; except in saving the property of the company, or whoever it belonged to.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was the mayor present when you offered protection to the firemen, at the fire engine, when they proposed to throw water on those burning cars?
A. Yes; the mayor was present. One of the firemen asked him, if he would protect them, and he said yes, and the fireman said, that is what we want. Then they made the attachment, but did not throw any water afterward on the fire.
Q. Did they make any proposal to the mayor, to take an active part himself--to hold the nozzle?
A. No; I do not think they did.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Why did they not throw the water?
A. Because, I suppose, they were intimidated.
Q. But when you gave them the protection they asked, did they not make an effort to throw the water?
A. No.
Q. Did the mob make a rush?
A. No; no more than following the engine.
Q. What reason did they give for not throwing the water?
A. I do not know.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Who had charge of the engine at that point?
A. I do not know; I do not know what engine it was.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Did the firemen throw water on private property when it was burning?
A. All the time.
Q. But not on the railroad property?
A. No.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Do you know who the man was who asked protection from the mayor?
A. I do not know.
Q. Did the mob interfere with private property at any time?
A. Not during that day. They did attempt to during that night and also during Sunday night.
Q. What attempts were made on Sunday night?
A. The American house, I think, or some place near it, was gutted, but by that time we had a pretty good force, and we went there and drove them away and arrested some of them.
Q. Who had command there?
A. Lieutenant Coates.
Q. He had no trouble in beating the crowd away?
A. He had some trouble, but he did it.
Q. How many men had he?
A. I went there afterwards, and we had, I suppose, some forty men there.
Q. After the railroad property was destroyed--by that time you had a pretty good police force?
A. Yes; the men were reporting during the day.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. You stated you had sixteen policemen at Union depot?
A. I stated I had sixteen in line.
Q. Where were the balance of your police at that time?
A. They were scattered among the mob.
Q. The whole police of the city were there?
A. No, sir; all I could gather up at that time were there.
Q. Are you still the chief of police?
A. No, sir; there is another administration.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Have you a police commission or police committee, that have any special duty in taking charge of the police or in regulating the police?
A. No, sir; it is the mayor that has that power here.
Adjourned to meet at three o'clock, P.M.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
ORPHANS' COURT ROOM, PITTSBURGH, _Monday, February 11, 1878_.
Pursuant to adjournment, the committee re-assembled at three o'clock, P.M., this day, and continued the taking of testimony.
The first witness examined was--
* * * * *
Henry Metzgar, _sworn with the uplifted hand_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. In the Eighth ward, Pittsburgh.
Q. What official position did you hold in the city last July?
A. I was the mayor's clerk.
Q. What knowledge had you on Thursday of any disturbance among the railroad employés?
A. I think my first knowledge was on Wednesday, but to get at the data I would request to send for the information made against Thomas McCall.
[A paper exhibited to witness.]
Q. Is that a copy of the information?
A. Yes. On Thursday, the 19th, Mr. Watt came into the office, and asked for a number of policemen. As to the exact number I don't know, I didn't exactly hear the number, but I understood he wanted ten policemen to go out on the Pennsylvania railroad. The mayor went out with me to the chief of detectives, and they got a number of policemen, and arranged them up in line, and I think I asked Mr. Watt how many he wanted, and he said ten. One or more of them then stepped out of the ranks. Ten policemen went out, I believe, to the railroad. About twelve o'clock of that day we received a telegram, asking, I think, for fifty policemen additional.
Q. From whom?
A. To the best of my recollection the telegram was from Mr. Watt. I immediately went out and hunted some of the policemen who had been discharged--I hunted them up, and several of the officers went out and hunted them up. I notified a number myself to report at the office for duty at the Pennsylvania Railroad Company's depot. How many reported I don't know. It not being my special duty, I paid no attention to it. But I know a number of them reported. Where they went to I don't know personally. About four o'clock that evening, the mayor asked me if there was any news from the Twelfth ward. I told him I could telegraph to the Twelfth ward and see. We did so, and the report came from the station that all was quiet.
Q. The Twelfth ward takes in this district at Twenty-eighth street?
A. Yes; the mayor then left the office to go to Castle Shannon where his family is, as I believed, for the night. About that time--about five o'clock, Mr. Watt came in and asked for from fifty to a hundred additional policemen. I told him I didn't know where we could get them--that all we had for effective duty was ninety men, and, in the absence of the mayor, I couldn't take away the policemen from all portions of the city, for the purpose of protecting the property of the railroad company. Mr. Watt said to me, what will I do. I said, I don't know--the only thing--if you have a fear of any danger to your property--you had better call upon the sheriff, and the sheriff can call a _posse comitatus_ to protect the property if there is any danger. Mr. Watt said he would do so. That is the last I saw of him until some time after the riot. No--the next morning--the morning of the 20th--he came in, and made this information against Thomas McCall. The mayor, at the time, said to him, that our police force was very limited, and in making those arrests we would have to make quiet arrests. The warrants were placed in the hands of the officers, for the purpose of ascertaining where those parties lived, and to find out who they were, and all about them. For the most part, they were strangers, as far as we knew. Officer McGovern had the warrants. The next morning Mr. Houseman, of the firm of Hampton & Dalzell, came into the office, and asked me how many of the parties had been arrested. I told him I didn't know that any were arrested. That the mayor's instructions were to proceed quietly. He said, can you give me this information. I said, no, it is part of the record, and cannot go out of our hands. He then asked for the names of the parties against whom the information was brought, and he copied the names, and as he was going out he said, I am instructed by Mr. Hampton to tell you folks not to execute these warrants. I said, very well--this is a matter entirely in your own hands. I went out with him to the officer, and told the officer to produce his warrants. He produced them, and I told him, you are instructed by Mr. Hampton, through Mr. Houseman, not to execute them. He said, that was all right. That is all I know, unless some special question may arise.
Q. How many policemen had been discharged prior to Thursday?
A. One hundred and sixteen.
Q. How long had they been discharged before that?
A. They were discharged, I think, sometime about the latter part of June, or may be the 1st of July. I am not certain as to the date.
Q. Had you any knowledge of any anticipated outbreak or strike by the men before it was communicated to you by Mr. Watt?
A. Not the slightest. And at that time we had no idea there was going to be any such trouble at all, as we have had sometimes in this city.
Q. You were present when Mr. Watt asked the mayor to furnish him with the police?
A. I was in the office.
Q. You heard the mayor's reply?
A. He went out with Mr. Watt and instructed the chief of police to get the men.
Q. Did Mr. Watt have to promise to pay the men before the mayor gave that instruction?
A. I believe something was said about pay. These men, you see, were not on the pay-rolls of the city. The regular men were in bed or scattered all over the city. These men happened to be there that day, being paid off.
Q. Did the mayor require Mr. Watt to become responsible for their pay?
A. I believe something was said about the railroad company--that it would have to pay the men, as no provision was made by the city for their pay. I think very few of these men were on the regular force.
Q. Did the mayor make that a condition before he instructed you to send out for the men?
A. He never instructed me to send out for anybody.
Q. Who did he instruct?
A. Either the chief of detectives or the chief of police--I cannot remember which.
Q. Did he make any order at that time, calling out policemen?
A. Not as I know of.
Q. These men went out as volunteers?
A. Yes; in that sense. They were men who had been discharged. They went out under the control of Officer Charles McGovern.
Q. They volunteered to go?
A. We had no right to make a demand on them as a police force. They were not in the employ of the city.
Q. When the telegram came to you calling for fifty policemen, what effort did you make to get them?
A. We hunted them up as well as we could. A great many of these men wouldn't go because they were incensed at the city for discharging them, but a number of them did respond.
Q. You hunted up as many as you could get to go willingly?
A. Yes.
Q. How many?
A. About thirty-five. It not being my special business, I didn't pay much attention to it.
Q. Did you notify the mayor of that call for fifty additional police?
A. Yes; he sent us out, and says, go hunt them up.
Q. How many did you get?
A. I think about thirty-five. I never burdened my mind specially with that.
Q. Did you get another call from the railroad company?
A. I have no recollection of another call, except when Mr. Watt came and said he wanted from fifty to one hundred men additional.
Q. Did you communicate that to the mayor?
A. I did when he came into the city, at eight o'clock on that evening.
Q. What evening?
A. Thursday evening.
Q. What did the mayor say?
A. He said he didn't know where he could get the policemen. Our intention in calling the police was simply to protect property from getting stolen.
Q. Did he make a demand upon the citizens of the city to join the police force at any time?
A. We made a demand--certainly we did.
Q. When?
A. On Sunday night, for instance, when I made a call upon the citizens to volunteer to protect the water works of the city.
Q. Had you made any demand prior to that Sunday night?
A. I cannot say. I know of that for a fact.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What demand?
A. He said, how many people will volunteer to protect the water-works of the city, and I ask for volunteers. As I understood, they intended to burn them down. Out of some two hundred men, four responded, I think. He said he understood they were in danger.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. But he summoned no posse from the citizens of the city during the riots, did he?
A. I don't know that he did.
Q. How many of those discharged policemen were at the city hall on Thursday when those ten men went out?
A. I cannot say how many were there. They were in and out, being paid off. I cannot say how many. Quite a number of them, I know.
Q. How many could you have got to go out there at that time, do you think?
A. We got all we could.
Q. To go voluntarily?
A. Yes; I know, personally, I used every exertion I could, and I know Mr. Davis was out hunting up men.
Q. Were you out there during the riots at any time?
A. I was out on Friday.
Q. At what point?
A. At Twenty-eighth street.
Q. How large a crowd was there?
A. At the time I was there I suppose probably a thousand people were there.
Q. How many were engaged in the riotous proceedings?
A. None that I saw.
Q. What were they doing at that time?
A. They were assembled there listening to a speech made by Doctor Donnelly, counseling moderation, and advising those not connected with the railroad to go home and attend to their own business. Some other speeches were made by one or two more.
Q. What was the effect of the speech upon the crowd?
A. I don't know that it had any effect. It had no special effect particularly one way or another.
Q. Did they listen to it?
A. Yes.
Q. Did they make any response to it in any way?
A. Some response was made to Doctor Donnelly when he counseled those having no business there to go home. Some of them made some remarks from the outside of the crowd--that is enough now, you just stop there; and things of that kind.
Q. What time did the mayor return from Castle Shannon?
A. Shortly after eight o'clock. It may have been eight and a half o'clock.
Q. Where did he remain during the night?
A. In the office, I think.
Q. All night?
A. I can't say, for I didn't stay there.
Q. Where was the mayor Friday, during the day?
A. In and out the office all day, so far as I know. I know he was there.
Q. Was any effort made to increase the police force on Friday?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Nor on Saturday?
A. No.
Q. When were the discharged men placed back on the police force?
A. They were not placed back on the police force until Monday. I think Monday a number of them reported for duty. A committee of councils, or councils held a session on Sunday morning; but there was so much confusion that nothing was done. The police force was not replaced until Monday or Tuesday; that is, the additional men.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Where is the mayor at the present time?
A. In Philadelphia, I believe. He has left a note that he would be home to-morrow.
Q. What was said about these men being paid?
A. There was some conversation about the railroad company--that it would have to pay these men, because the men were not on the pay-rolls of the city at the time.
Q. Did the mayor make that inquiry of Mr. Watt, as to who would pay?
A. I know there was some conversation on that subject.
Q. Did or did not the mayor say to you that it was necessary for the officers of the railroad to go out of town, that their lives were in jeopardy?
A. No.
Q. Did anybody else say so?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever hear it said?
A. No; only after the riots. I understood they left town for fear of that, and I was rather astonished to find that some of them had been out of town.
Q. Did anybody there state to you that General Pearson had better go out of town?
A. No.
Q. Did you know of his being out of town?
A. No.
Q. Did you know of any of those railroad officers being out of town?
A. No; only subsequently.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did any of the citizens call upon the mayor, requesting him to put on an additional force?
A. Well, I guess--I do not know that. They did not up to Saturday afternoon, until the time of this firing.
Q. Didn't they do it on Friday?
A. No.
Q. On Saturday?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Did they offer to become responsible for the payment of the additional police?
A. When?
Q. Friday, Saturday, or Sunday?
A. I never heard of it at all. I never heard any such an offer made. The committee of public safety afterwards agreed to pay a certain number of men on the police force from that time until the end of the year.
Q. When did they make that proposition?
A. I think Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday, but it was after all the trouble had occurred, so far as I know anything of it.
Q. You know nothing of any such offer having been made on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday?
A. No.
Q. Were you with the mayor during those days?
A. Off and on, Friday and Saturday. On Sunday I was at the central station until twelve o'clock, noon. We had about one hundred and twenty-five prisoners there Sunday morning, and it took all my attention until noon that day to get through with the business.
Q. What were they arrested for?
A. For carrying away property, and stuff, and various things, and disorderly conduct. One thing and another of that kind.
Q. For larceny and disorderly conduct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Before whom were they taken?
A. Before Deputy Mayor Butler.
Q. What was done with those persons?
A. Some were fined, and some were held for court, and some were discharged. A great many were discharged, as one of the officers came down with the report that the jailor said that he could not hold them or keep them.
Q. What persons were they who were arrested?
A. I cannot say. Most of those names are fictitious.
Q. Did you get their residences?
A. No; the residences were not taken.
Q. How many did you hold for court?
A. That I cannot say.
Q. Did you keep a record of it?
A. Yes; there is a record of it.
Q. Have you the record now in your office?
A. I do not know whether it is there now. I passed the record out of my hands to the comptroller of the city.
Q. How many were fined?
A. Quite a number.
Q. Did they pay their fines?
A. Some of them did and some went to jail.
Q. How many went to jail?
A. That I cannot say.
Q. Can't you make an estimate?
A. I really could not, because you can imagine that morning I had not much stomach for anything to keep facts and figures. It is just a general idea. Everything was in such terrible confusion.
Q. How large were the fines?
A. From three to five dollars.
Q. You say you cannot tell who those men were, or where they resided?
A. No; they were people I never saw before.
Q. Those who were committed to jail. Did you ever ascertain afterward who they were and where they came from?
A. I did not.
Q. Did you ever make any effort?
A. I never did. The police made efforts afterwards to try to ascertain, I believe, who they were, but I do not know what they did, or whether they did anything or not.
Q. Can't you tell something about what class of people they were from their dress?
A. They all looked to be of the poorer class of people, but what they were or who they were I cannot say.
Q. Can't you tell whether they were tramps or railroad men or people of the poorer class?
A. Some were tramps--I know that. I have a recollection of that. I don't think there were any railroad men. There may have been a few, but a very few, though. They were generally of the poorer class of people, picking up plunder.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Were they Pittsburghers?
A. That I cannot say. I never saw them before, and have never seen them since.
By Mr. Means:
Q. When those policemen were sent out there, was there any arrangement made by Mr. Watt, or any other person, to keep the time of the men while in service?
A. I had nothing to do with that. That was a matter for the clerk of the chief of police to attend to. I know that Mr. Watt, or somebody, sent down a check to pay them.
Q. Have you any recollection of a party of eighty sent to the work-house?
A. I remember a party of forty-six sent there. They came here from Cumberland, and were arrested on the arrival of the train here.
Q. What train?
A. On the Connellsville railroad.
Q. Those were all sent up in a body?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. When was that?
A. On the 23d or 24th of July.
* * * * *
R. H. Fife, _sworn with the uplifted hand_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you sheriff of Allegheny county last July?
A. Yes.
Q. How long have you been sheriff?
A. Two years the first Monday of last January.
Q. State what knowledge you have of the disturbance of the peace that commenced on the 19th of July last?
A. On the 19th of July last I had been out of the city during a part of that day, and came home late in the evening. I went to my house, and remained there until sometime in the night. I had been sleeping, I think. About eleven o'clock, between that and twelve o'clock----
Q. Thursday night?
A. Yes. Mr. Scott--that is Mr. John Scott--Mr. Watt, and another gentleman--I do not recollect his name--came to the house. I came down and admitted them into the parlor. They told me of the trouble they had--that Mr. Watt had been assaulted, and that a large crowd was out there. They wished me to go out and see what I could do. I told them I would go, and I put my coat on, and called one of my deputies--Mr. Haymaker--and we started down to Union depot. There we met General Pearson, and he went with us out to one of the offices--I do not know just what office--and then General Pearson and Mr. Watt--I think Mr. Watt went along, or some other gentleman connected with the railroad--and I went up to Twenty-eighth street.
Q. What time did you arrive at Twenty-eighth street?