Part 19
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did they seem to have any organized leaders, or were they directed by anybody?
A. It appeared to me they had at that time.
Q. Were they not running helter-skelter?
A. They were ordering each other around. I can't say whether they had an organization or not.
Q. Did it strike you that they had?
A. It did, at that time.
Q. That it was an organization?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Means:
Q. An organization without a head--do you mean to say that?
A. It appeared to me at that time that it was an organization, but I don't say it positively myself.
Q. Was there any particular party to command it?
A. Yes; it looked to me so.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What did the crowd seem to be aiming at, at that time--was it the destruction of property?
A. I can't say that. There was a great deal of destruction and thieving going on.
Q. Pillage and plunder?
A. Yes.
Q. What was said by the rioters?
A. I can't state.
Q. Was this firing confined entirely to railroad property?
A. It was at that time.
Q. Was there any attempt made by any one, so far as you saw, to fire private property?
A. No.
Q. It seemed to be confined entirely to railroad property?
A. Yes.
Q. This man Marshall you spoke of, was entirely alone when you saw him fire the car?
A. So far as I know.
Q. Nobody seemed to be acting in concert with him?
A. No.
Q. Did this coke car stand entirely alone?
A. It stood in a train. They kept running cars down, six or seven at a time, against each other. This came down with the rest of them.
Q. Describe that. The firing of this car would communicate to others?
A. Yes.
Q. After the car was fired, was it put in motion?
A. Not that I noticed.
Q. When you speak of running cars down, where were they running them from?
A. From out the road some place. I think it is down grade this way.
Q. Did the cars stop at Twenty-eighth street?
A. Above Twenty-eighth street.
Q. Near the round-house?
A. The round-house is on Twenty-eighth street.
Q. Did the cars stop near the round-house?
A. Yes.
Q. Where were the troops then?
A. I suppose they were in one of the round-houses.
Q. Do you know that to be a fact?
A. I walked down, and the guard was standing there. I suppose so.
Q. The cars that were run down, then, would stop somewhere near the round-house?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there any effort made to fire the round-house, that you saw?
A. No; I didn't get near enough.
Q. Was there any attack being made upon the round-house by the mob at that time?
A. I can't say that there was. Not that I know of.
Q. Was there anything said by the mob about the soldiers being quartered in the round-house?
A. Not that I can remember.
Q. How long were you there?
A. I went out in the evening about six or seven o'clock, along there. I stayed along Liberty street and was once or twice on the railroad, and saw Marshall, and along Liberty street at four or five o'clock in the morning.
Q. How close to the mob?
A. I was twice, once or twice, upon the railroad.
Q. At what point on the railroad?
A. Just about where I saw this man.
Q. How far from the mob?
A. That just appeared to be--I stood along the edge of the railroad, and this car was on the second or third track, off the edge of the railroad.
Q. How many rods or feet from the mob?
A. Not more than five or six rods--something like that.
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. You were in the crowd, were you?
A. No; not just in the crowd. I was standing looking at them.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You were within five or six rods?
A. Yes.
Q. Was the crowd noisy and boisterous?
A. Yes.
Q. What did they appear to be saying?
A. I paid no attention to that.
Q. Did you hear them say anything?
A. I could hear them say a good bit, but it is a long time ago.
Q. What did they appear to be doing?
A. Dragging things off.
Q. What?
A. Goods and things.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Was this man Marshall a railroad man or an outsider?
A. I never knew him to be a railroad man.
Q. Do you know anything about him at all--you knew the man?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Where did he reside?
A. He lived in the First ward, Allegheny, some place.
Q. Had you known him for years?
A. Yes.
Q. He had lived in Allegheny for some time?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What was his business?
A. He was a machinist.
Q. In whose employ was he at that time?
A. I don't know.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What were you doing there--what led you to go there?
A. I heard of the excitement, and I went down town and went out to see it.
Q. It was curiosity?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you say that other cars were burning when this man Marshall fired this coke car?
A. Yes.
Q. At that time?
A. Yes.
Q. It was not the first car burned?
A. No.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Were you there when the first car was fired?
A. No.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What kind of things were they dragging off--merchandise from the cars?
A. Yes.
Q. Were any railroad men among that party?
A. I don't know. I didn't know anybody but the one man.
Q. Did they have the appearance of railroad men--familiar with tracks and with getting on and going about cars?
A. I can't say that.
Q. You could not judge anything from their actions?
A. No.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. How long was Marshall sent to the penitentiary for?
A. Six years, I believe.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. In whose employ were you at that time?
A. In the employ of McIntosh, Hemphill & Co.
Q. Where are their works located?
A. Twelfth and Pike.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. How far were the other cars that were burning from this one?
A. They were close. There were cars all around, I suppose within thirty, or forty, or fifty feet.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. The crowd of spectators was not interfering with property?
A. No.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You were there until five o'clock in the morning?
A. About that time.
Q. How large was the crowd there during the night--take an average.--I mean the crowd engaged in burning or pillaging or plundering?
A. I couldn't just give an idea.
Q. What is your opinion as to how large the crowd was--a thousand men or five thousand or ten thousand?
A. Two or three thousand.
Q. You mean that were about in the vicinity, and seemed to be taking part in the destruction of property?
A. If I were to give an estimate I would give you something that I don't know.
Q. Was there any effort made to stop the destruction of property during the night?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Was there any interference with it by any person?
A. Not that I saw.
Q. They were running things there themselves during the entire night?
A. It appeared so to me.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. You did not see any soldiers, except the guard at the round-house?
A. I saw the guard and two or three standing there with him.
Q. There were none active in trying to beat back the crowd?
A. No.
* * * * *
Thomas M. King, _sworn with the uplifted hand_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. In Verona borough.
Q. You are officially connected with the Allegheny Valley Railroad--in what capacity?
A. I am superintendent of the river division.
Q. Did you occupy that position in July last?
A. Yes.
Q. State whether there were any differences between the Allegheny Valley Railroad Company and their employés, existing prior to the 19th day of July last?
A. There was some dissatisfaction among the men in regard to the ten per cent. reduction, but they all appeared to accept it.
Q. When was the ten per cent. reduction made?
A. The 1st of June.
Q. To what classes of employés did that apply?
A. To all classes receiving over a dollar a day.
Q. And to the officers, from the president down?
A. Yes.
Q. There was some complaint at the time?
A. Some dissatisfaction.
Q. Between the 1st of June and the 19th of July, was there any organization among the men, so far as you could learn, or any pre-arranged plan to strike?
A. There was nothing positive. I understood that quite a number of the men were joining what was called the Trainmen's Union.
Q. Did you know the object of the Trainmen's Union.
A. Of my own knowledge I did not. I understood it was being organized for the purpose of organizing a strike.
Q. Did you, as superintendent, have any communication with the men that you understood were joining the organization in relation to it?
A. A short time before the strike, three or four of our men, I understood, were very active in it, and I think I suspended one or two temporarily, and talked to some others about it. My information just previous to the strike led me to suppose that our men were not going to stand by it, or were withdrawing--that they would not go into the strike.
Q. Did you get that information from conversation with your men?
A. Yes.
Q. With what class of employés?
A. Conductors and engineers.
Q. What class seemed to be most dissatisfied with the reduction?
A. Generally those of the lower grade of pay--such as brakemen; that class of men.
Q. When did the first strike occur on your road?
A. I think on Monday morning, the 23d, I believe.
Q. What class of men struck first?
A. I would qualify the other statement by stating that on Saturday, about ten o'clock, I got a message stating that the shop men had held a meeting and determined not to work any longer without the ten per cent. was restored. We went out and called the men together, and Mr. Shinn, our vice president, made a speech, and explained the situation to them, and they held a meeting and agreed to stand by the reduction and go to work again. That was the first difficulty we had. On Monday, I think was the first refusal, on the part of the train men, to perform service.
Q. What was said and done to get the men to resume work?
A. On Monday, I went down with an empty train, and turned up Pike street. There they drew up, and I went on to the shops. We had a street engine that far. After getting to the Thirty-fourth street station, I was surprised to see a road engine standing there. I imagined, at once, there was going to be a difficulty, and I got off the engine and walked up to the round-house, and there was quite a large number of our men congregated there. I spoke to them, and asked them what this meant. None of them made any reply. I told them that the Pennsylvania Railroad Company had made some arrangement with their men, and that, of course, we would be governed by any arrangement made on the trunk lines. I told them they were foolish to go into the strike in the midst of the excitement--that it would do them no good. I then asked one of the engineers to go on the express engine standing there, and take her out. I got no reply. I said: "Boys, I am very sorry you are acting badly, and if you don't take the engine out, I will have to take her myself." I got on the engine and took her out, and made a coupling on a train and started. In the meantime, one of the firemen came down and got on with me. By the time I got up to the round-house, one of the engineers came and took the engine from me.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You don't mean took it forcibly?
A. Oh, no. I went back to the men, and by that time quite a crowd was gathered around, and there was a great deal of excitement. There were a great many people around that I never saw before. The men said they were going to call a meeting. I told them as a great many strangers, apparently, were around, I would sooner they would go away from the shops, and call their meeting at some other place where they could do it quietly. They did so, and concluded that they would not go to work. I succeeded in running all the trains that day that I cared about running.
Q. How did you accomplish that?
A. By working myself, and by calling on the dispatchers and two or three of the engineers. The next day a great many strangers were in our yard, apparently influencing our men. I sent for some of our men, and told them that I could not understand their conduct, that we had always endeavored to treat them kindly and squarely, then they said it was not their fault, that they were forced into it, and were doing what they did by intimidation; that it would be as much as their lives were worth to undertake to run those trains. By Tuesday noon I had a great deal of difficulty in getting the passenger trains to run. The men would be scared off and desert them. I gave the men notice on Tuesday afternoon, at three o'clock, that if they wanted the _onus_ of stopping all the passenger trains on our road, they would have to do it--that we would not be justified in undertaking to run trains and run the risk of having an accident occur to them by their refusing to perform their duty.
Q. What action did they take then?
A. They called a meeting about four o'clock. I sent up to that meeting and asked them to send me down a man to take out the passengers that had come into the city that morning, so that we could get them home. I could not get any person to do that, and had to do it myself. I took the train out. That evening there was a committee waited on me with a proposal that they would run two of our trains--would select the crew to take charge of them. I had been unable to get any protection whatever either from the military or civil authorities.
Q. Did they carry out that arrangement?
A. I sent a request to the committee of public safety, and had also gone and seen General Brown, personally, to get some protection for our shops, and also some ammunition for a company that we had at Verona guarding our property there. General Brown said he could give me no assistance, whatever, and so far as his ammunition was concerned, he had but very few cartridges for his command. He, however, gave me forty, and an order to gather up the company at Verona, and place them on duty there. He said he could not allow any troops to be sent out of the city at all, as he deemed it of more importance to keep them in the city than to send them on the outskirts. From Mr. Thaw, I learned also, that the committee of public safety had declined to send any persons. After the men had made their proposal, I notified them that I would give them an answer in the morning, and started up to the east end and saw Mr. Shinn, our vice president, and submitted their proposal to him, and explained the position we were in--that we could get no protection either from the civil or military authorities, and that if our men were willing to work, I thought it would be prudent, on our part, to submit to the men until such times as the authorities could regain control. He agreed with me, and authorized me to let the men take charge of the trains and run them, so as not to stop the United States mails. The trains were run under the charge of the men for two days--Wednesday and Thursday. On Friday, we took charge of the trains ourselves again. We ran the passenger trains on Friday and on Saturday--all we desired to, and notified the men on Saturday that we proposed to commence running trains on Monday. And I advised all the men that desired to retain their positions, and who wanted to go to work again, that if they would come down on Monday and take their trains they could do so.
Q. How many responded on Monday?
A. We had some difficulty up until two o'clock, and I was compelled to employ a few new men. After that, the men saw that we were determined, to start the business on the road again, and the majority came in, and we had all the men we wanted.
Q. Did you have any assistance from the military at any time?
A. Yes.
Q. When was it?
A. I think on Thursday night. I went down to General Brown, and got an order from him to bring the company that was at Verona, doing duty there, to Forty-third street. He also sent a detail of cavalry from the city, and we took charge of the road on Friday morning, and started our trains.
Q. I understand it was on Tuesday you made the application to him.
A. On Monday night and Tuesday both.
Q. The troops were refused?
A. Yes.
Q. When was it you made application to the citizen's protective committee?
A. On Tuesday, Mr. Paul came to me, and told me. He said: "Mr. King, you are running a great risk. There is a great deal of excitement, and I have heard a great many threats, not only against you, but your road." I think it was at nine o'clock in the morning--between nine and ten. I said to him: "Mr. Paul, you see the condition of things here. If you can do anything with the committee of public safety, I think you should go and explain our position to them." He remarked to me that he had heard some threats among the men on Butler street, about burning the bridges and destroying property, and, also, some threats against me personalty, on account of my having been running trains out. The men were afraid to take them at the station, on account of the threats made against them. I could not get the trains run out, but as soon as I would get out of the city limits, an engineer would come forward, and relieve me. In that way, we were enabled to keep the passenger trains going.
Q. Who was Mr. Paul?
A. He was a neighbor of mine, living at Verona--of the firm of Metcalf, Paul & Co.--a member of that firm.
Q. Did you see any of the committee of public safety?
A. No. I was very busy, watching our property, and could not get down town during the day. Everybody was excited, and there were a good many outsiders around.
Q. Did Mr. Paul report to you after seeing the committee?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know who he saw of the committee of public safety?
A. He did tell me, but I don't recollect now. I think he went in before the committee, and made a speech to them, and explained the situation--at least, that is my recollection.
Q. What kind of assistance was the committee of public safety rendering at that time?
A. I can't answer that. They were organizing the citizens into companies, for the purpose of protecting the city.
Q. Mutual protection?
A. Yes. The night I drove out to see Mr. Shinn the whole city appeared to be patrolled. It was midnight, and I was halted at almost every corner. The citizens were all apparently out.
Q. Were they armed?
A. Yes.
Q. On Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, were your men all at work?
A. Yes.
Q. What time did the shopmen quit work on Saturday?
A. At the usual hour.
Q. What is that hour?
A. Half past five in the evening. Mr. Shinn was there at half past two or three, and called the men together, and made a speech. I left then, and I think they all returned to work.
Q. Did I understand you to say that all the trains, both passenger and freight, were running on Saturday?
A. Yes; we sent out the night trains on Saturday evening, after the trouble had commenced.
Q. Was the same order issued by your company that was issued by the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, as to running double headers?
A. There was no necessity for it on our road.
Q. The only reduction in any way was the ten per cent. reduction, on the 1st of June, on your road?
A. Yes.
Q. Had you any reason to apprehend any strike, prior to the breaking out of the one here among your men?
A. No; I had an assurance from quite a number that they would not go into the strike.
Q. Did you receive any order from Colonel Grey upon Captain Patterson to furnish you with men?
A. I think that is the order I referred to. I went and saw General Brown, and he gave me an order to Captain Patterson, to get the men together and report for duty at Verona shops.
Q. On Tuesday?
A. Yes; I am not sure whether it was Monday night or Tuesday. My recollection is, it was Monday night, but probably it was Tuesday.
Q. Did he give you the order when you first saw him--the first time he was called upon?
A. I was to see him two or three times during that period, and I am not positive about it. I think it was the second time; it may have been the first. I am not positive.
Q. Did he make any refusal the first time you saw him?
A. I explained to him, that we had a guard of seventy-five men, that we had organized ourselves at Verona, among whom were some of the Verona company, but they had no ammunition. I think that the General said to me, if I could get that company together, he would let it remain, but he could not send any troops from the city hall.
Q. Did he state his reasons?
A. He deemed it more important to keep the command together than to separate them.
Q. Did you make any application to the mayor or sheriff of the county for aid?
A. No; we did not need it until after the riot. It was only from the desire to protect our men who were willing to work. And I had been advised on Monday or Tuesday of some incendiary speech, made among the miners, and I looked for some trouble among them.
Q. Was any of the property of the Allegheny Valley railroad destroyed?
A. Nothing but a baggage car at Union depot and the tracks running in front of the round-house where we approached Union depot.
Q. Had you any number of cars there at the time the burning occurred?
A. I think we had about two hundred south of Forty-third street.
Q. Were any of them laden with freight?
A. Some with ore; the merchandise cars I removed Sunday night myself. Word was sent to me that the men were going to burn the freight station.
Q. Were you interfered with in any way?
A. No.
Q. In the interviews you had with your men before the strike--between the 1st of June and the strike--what reasons did the men give for their anticipated strike?
Q. They were dissatisfied with the reduction of wages. There had been one the previous year or so, and this one coming in that time, made them very much dissatisfied.
Q. How long before was the other reduction?
A. I think in 1874 or 1875.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Is it not a habit for the men, when their wages are reduced, to complain?
A. Oh, yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was it deemed necessary on the part of the company to make that reduction?
A. The board of directors thought so.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Had there been a falling off in business?
A. The business was very irregular and spurty. Sometimes we were running all the trains we could, and then they would drop off. And rates were not so good as they had been.
Q. From your position, you should judge that was the reason why the reduction was made?
A. I should judge it was a necessity on the part of the management to do it, on account of the condition of the trade of the country.
Q. There had been strikes in other parts of the country before this trouble occurred here--for instance, at Martinsburg?
A. I believe so--from newspaper reports.
Q. Did you have any consultation with the railroad authorities when this occurred--or did you take any measures to avert this?
A. So far as we were concerned, we did not anticipate it.
Q. You had no anticipation of any trouble on your road?
A. There had been some talk in regard to the train men's union, that it was for the purpose of getting up a strike. But many of our men, I understood, were withdrawing from it, and would not lend themselves to anything of the kind. For that reason I did not anticipate any trouble among our men.
Q. Do you know whether there was any aid asked of or any consultation held with the authorities before the strike came about?
A. I cannot answer that. I was not in the city that day.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How did the business that the road was doing for three months prior to June 1st, when the reduction was made in wages, compare with the same three months of the year before?
A. My recollection is that our average may have been a little heavier, but I am not positive about that.
Q. In the three months preceding June, 1877.
A. Yes; our business is spasmodic. It is the oil business. A part of the year they are doing a good business, and then it drops off to nothing.
Q. How did the prices for the carrying of freight compare in 1877 with those in 1876?
A. I cannot answer that. I did not make the rates.
Q. Had there been any change in rates, so far as you know?