Part 18

A. I think the majority of them were outside of the railroad employés. Whether they were glass-blowers, or puddlers, or citizens of any other occupation, I could not tell. The Pittsburgh troops were on good terms with the mob. Some were giving them muskets, and marching up and down with the mob, and eating hard-tack with them, and there was a good feeling, generally, between them. The report came that the troops were coming from Philadelphia, and that there would quite likely be trouble with them, because they were strangers here, and would not know the position of things here, but would obey orders. From that, I inferred that the Pittsburgh soldiers had not exactly obeyed orders. I only inferred that. This was the kind of tone or feeling around there. When the Philadelphia troops came marching up through the yard, my engine was out. I think that General Pearson was there at the same time that the Philadelphia troops came up from Twenty-eighth street. I think that General Pearson was, and I am positive about Mr. Cassatt. He said to me: Fred., are you willing to go out? I said: Certainly. I have never refused to go out. Certainly, on condition that the mob is dispersed. I would not like to run through it. I don't want to hurt anybody. He said: We don't want to send anybody out, until the mob is dispersed. I thought that if there was any determination displayed on the part of the troops, the mob would go away. Shortly after that, I was at the upper end of the lower round-house, half way between Twenty-sixth and Twenty-eighth streets. After the troops got up there, somebody made a speech--some one of the officers, or somebody--made a little speech, warning the people to go away, and disperse. I couldn't hear exactly what was said. Then I saw some of the soldiers come down shortly after that, and one of them, particularly, had the whole side of his face knocked off by a brick. They were the Philadelphia troops. Some of the others came down sick. I don't know whether they were sunstruck, or what kind of struck, but they were weak about the knees, some of them. Then, by and by, I heard a little bit of musketry rattling, and then heard them shoot in every direction, and saw the crowd dispersing in every direction--some running up the hill, and some up the railroad, and some down Twenty-eighth street. In a short time, nobody was there. The troops came down to the round-house, and were quartered there, with the Gatling gun put in position, off Twenty-eighth street. I heard one of the officers of the troops saying, that they could not stand it much longer--that they were yelled at and struck--that they had not come to Pittsburgh to hurt anybody, but that they couldn't stand it much longer. But General Brinton told them, in my hearing, that they shouldn't shoot at all. They had barricaded Twenty-eighth street. The troops were barricaded there. Guards were posted properly, I suppose; but they had no rations, and a good many of the men commenced to complain about something to eat--that they had only had a small lunch since they had left Altoona, or somewhere. Somebody remarked, that they would open up the Gatling gun on the mob, if it didn't quit throwing the stones and missiles at the men. This was about six o'clock. The General came, and said, I don't want a man to shoot, without the barricades are broken in. Stand back, and don't use any violence. I won't allow any shooting to be done, without, it is in self-defense. I remained there until half past eight or nine o'clock. The mob had gathered so thick that it was almost impossible to get through. From Penn up to Liberty, and from Twenty-sixth up to Twenty-eighth streets, there was a solid mass of people. At that time, the old telegraph office was shot into, and stones were thrown into it, and the only thing that prevented them from shooting everybody there, was simply because the street was so much lower, and they had to shoot up, and the balls struck in the ceiling. One or two of the soldiers were struck in the back by missiles, or with stones in the face. One of the officers was struck, and it kind of riled him. By that time, an order came to send to Union depot to take the fast line out. Nobody was about. They had the engine, but no engineer. Mr. White asked me to go down. I said I would, if I could. I tried to get out at the rear of the shops, but the mob would not let me out. An officer was called up to pass me out of the round-house. I said, if you let me out between the office and the old round-house, I can jump off the wall, and get down. Previous to this time, it was generally thought, in the crowd outside, that Mr. Pitcairn and some of the officers, (Mr. Watt,) were in the office--in the outer depot office. It appeared that there was an antipathy against these men, and they wanted to get at them. Some remarks were made that they had coffins for them, and others said: Get them out of there. Just such threats the mob would make. They seemed to have made up their minds that those men had ordered the double-headers, or the reduction, and they were going to take their revenge out of them. They were instructed so (the mob was) by the railroad men. I thought that they were up there. I didn't know they were away. I thought they were there. Then I jumped off the wall. In the act of jumping, I was fired at. I suppose some ten or twelve balls were fired at me by some men there who had no love for me.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Who fired?

A. The mob outside. I got out of the crowd and into the Union depot. I found then that it was countermanded--that the fast line was not to go out. I went into the depot, and I don't know who I found, now--but I found out that the train was not to go. I found Mr. Pitcairn there, and I told him I thought it was not a wholesome place for him, that he had better leave. I told him I thought that some of the men were disposed to do him some personal damage if they came across him, and from the way in which the mob or the crowd felt, I didn't think it would be very well for anybody to get in their way at that time. About nine o'clock there was somebody came and asked for volunteers to take an engine out to the outer depot, to take provisions up to the troops. I told them I would, and I waited for some time, and then I found out that they had come to the conclusion that it would not be safe to go up. I heard no more of it until morning. I staid with the engine during that whole night, and saw the fires getting brighter and brighter, and coming closer down. I staid there at Union depot until eleven o'clock Sunday, when I drew the fires out of the engine and left her standing there by the orders of the depot-master, and went home by the way of the Fifth avenue street cars. While waiting for dinner, my brother-in-law heard a train, and I went out on the road, and I saw a train coming backward. I gave a slight signal and the engineer stopped. It was not very hard to stop a train then. The conductor inquired what I wanted; he said that he was going out as far as Walls. I said I would like to go. It seemed that some of the troops were coming in and came as far as Torrens, and were ordered back. I went to bed early in the afternoon after getting there. I came in on Monday, and was at our head-quarters at Fast Liberty. I thought our foreman was there. I reported for duty. About noon he asked me to run the Walls accommodation train. I said, certainly, I will run the train. I run it--no, I did not go out that trip, for the man who had the engine refused to get off, although he had asked in the first place to get off. When I came he refused to give it up. He pulled out a pistol and displayed it, and refused to give the engine up, yet he had asked in the first place to be relieved. So I told Mr. Whetman, our foreman of the round-house. Well, says he, let him run it, but he told me sometime ago, that he was tired and wanted to be relieved. I remained there until afternoon, when I got orders to take the engine. I went down again, and said, I have orders to take this engine. So I took her and run her sometime--I run her that night from Thirty-third street to Walls and back on regular trips. But I didn't make the last trip. In the morning I came in at the usual time. When I came in, it appears that a committee had waited on Mr. Whetman, and told him to take me off that engine. I believe the man Reynolds told him that they would not allow me to run the engine. Then Mr. Henry took the engine and run one round trip, when Mr. Blender took her. But before this, I was to go to Lawrenceville to take a train down to find a committee of men to have a conference about the thing. Mr. Garrett got on the engine. I asked where I was to go at East Liberty. John Shires and McCullough, who were on, were both of this committee, and Mr. Garrett told me that these parties wanted to go down for this conference. Shires spoke up and said, we will give you orders where we want you to go--we are running this road now. In fact I did not know who was running it. I had nothing to say. Five or six more parties got on, and we came to Pittsburgh. Shires gave me orders to go on down. Things went on so all that week. No train went out until the following Sunday, when I was ordered to take the yard engine at Torrens, and load some stock.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Who was Shires?

A. He was a conductor on a shifting engine at that time. On Sunday we loaded some stock at Torrens I took the engine that usually did that work. Nobody was on her. I examined the fire and water, and found all right, and went to move the engine, when the engineer that had been on her came up and asked me what I was going to do. I said I had orders to run this engine. He said, I am running this engine. I said all right, and got off, and reported to Mr. Whetman. He said that the man had refused to move the stock; but said he would move passenger cars. He was not willing to move stock. He went down to the man and talked to him; but it appeared it had no effect. He would not do it. He came back and said, I want you to take that engine. I went down and tried to persuade the man. He was a man of family, and I thought he had better sense. I said to him this thing is all broken up, and it was a mistake from the start. This stock ought to be loaded, and I said you are taking revenge out of innocent parties. I said I don't know who will provide for your family if you are out of work, and I am confident if you won't work now they won't give you work when you want it. He said they would have to take him. He would not take the stock, so I took the engine and loaded the stock.

Q. Did they resist?

A. No; I had no crew then; so Mr. Scott, the agent at the stock-yards, and Mr. Gummey, volunteered to couple the cars and do the work. So he, and I, and Mr. Scott did the work. We loaded three or four double trains that afternoon.

Q. What class of men were engaged in the riot when it first broke out?

A. Well, so far as I know, I think it was caused by one man only refusing to go out--the flagman of that train.

Q. Of what train?

A. Of the eight-forty.

Q. On Thursday morning?

A. Yes; and I think the rest fell in kind of spontaneously as they came in off the road.

Q. Have you been able to gather anything from the men, showing that they had a pre-arranged plan for a strike that morning?

A. Not that particular strike. I understood a month or so before, that the Trainmen's Union had organized a strike for a certain time, but I don't remember the day or date. I know there was such talk among the men, that there would be a strike that day among the brakemen and conductors. There was nothing of the kind among the engineers, that I know of, because had the engineers held meetings at other places, I would have heard them speak of it. Previous to that time there was nothing among the engineers and firemen; but, the day passed over, and there was no strike; and, of this strike on Thursday, the 19th, I heard nothing of it--I knew nothing of it, and our crew knew nothing of it--at least they said nothing to me, and it appeared to be a surprise to them when we came in. Railroad men sometimes are very communicative; they generally let one know, directly or indirectly, what is in the wind. They generally know one among the other.

Q. Had they any secret organization?

A. I don't know what this Trainmen's Union is. It was a new thing to me. I heard of it, that is all. I believe that such an organization existed, and had for some time.

Q. Do you know the objects of the organization?

A. I don't really know--I never heard particularly--only from the talk of the men It was kind of protective or like all labor organizations--something of that kind--to unite the men together, and get them to act in unity.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Was it of a beneficial character?

A. No.

Q. It was not like the engineers' organization.

A. No.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. It had no connection with it?

A. No.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. I suppose it is secret?

A. I think it is.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. At the meeting you spoke of, did the engineers and firemen agree to go into that union?

A. I understood so, but I don't know it.

Q. Do you know whether the Engineers' Brotherhood assisted or encouraged this strike of the Trainmen's Union?

A. I don't know that they did. If they did, they violated their obligations. They might have been in sympathy.

Q. They took no formal action in the matter?

A. No; not up to that time.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. You have stated that the strike was commenced by one man refusing to go out?

A. As far as I understand.

Q. At what time was the first effort made to prevent men from going out who were willing to go?

A. As far as I know--I was out on the road at that time that this refusal was made--that occurred sometime about eight o'clock in the morning. I left Pittsburgh at seven-twenty, and didn't get back until eleven o'clock. What transpired in the meantime, I cannot tell you. I know nothing about it, only from hearsay.

Q. Do you know, of your own knowledge, whether it was discharged men or men in the employ of the company who would prevent others from going out, either by persuasion or by force?

A. I don't know that. I know that sometime in the afternoon, when that attempt was made at three o'clock, or thereabouts, there were employés and non-employés among the party.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. And some of them had been in the service of the company and discharged?

A. Yes; and some that had never been in the service.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Did you hear any talk about men coming from a distance?

A. It was generally supposed--at the time of the fire and riot, I was at Union Depot, and I saw them carrying off goods--hauling them off by wagon loads and wheelbarrow loads--men, women, and children--it was generally supposed that all the thieves that could get here in two days, from all the country around, had got here; and I suppose, everybody thought that the property had better be carried off than be burned.

Q. Can you give the name of the flagman who first refused to go out?

A. No.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. Do you know whether the strike was confined to freight men entirely?

A. I think so; although some of the passenger men may have been in sympathy with them.

William Ryan, recalled:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Please state whether it was discharged men, or whether it was men who were then in the employ of the railroad company who first prevented the trains from going out, either by persuasion or by interference?

A. As far as I could see it was men still in the employ of the company. On the morning that this occurred they conversed about it. I suppose in that way they persuaded them not to go out.

Q. Was it known then what men would be discharged under this order?

A. No, sir; it was a mystery to all.

Q. Can you give us the name of the flagman who refused to go out first?

A. Harris, his name was. I gave his name in as Gus. Whether it was proper or not, I don't know.

* * * * *

John Alexander, _sworn with the uplifted hand_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. What is your occupation?

A. I am an engineer.

Q. In whose employ were you in July last?

A. In the employ of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company.

Q. As a freight engineer?

A. As a passenger engineer.

Q. On what train?

A. On the Walls accommodation.

Q. At what hours did you leave the Union depot?

A. In the morning, on the first trip, at six-twenty, and on the last trip leaving Pittsburgh, at five-twenty.

Q. What time did you arrive at Pittsburgh in the morning?

A. Eight-twenty-five.

Q. State whether you were interfered with on the morning of July 19?

A. I was not.

Q. When did you first learn there was any disturbance among the men?

A. About four o'clock that afternoon.

Q. How did you learn it?

A. I was coming down to go out on the five-twenty trip, and when I came to the round-house, above Twenty-eighth street, I saw a crowd of boys there. I asked what was going on--I asked somebody that I was acquainted with, and was told that the freight men were on a strike. That was, as near as I can tell, about four o'clock.

Q. Who told you that?

A. Robert Hardy.

Q. Do you know whether he was among the strikers?

A. I don't know.

Q. How large a crowd was assembled there?

A. I suppose about fifty persons. I thought that somebody was hurt by the Johnstown accommodation. It was just such a crowd as gathers when an accident takes place.

Q. Were they boisterous and noisy?

A. No; I didn't go into the crowd.

Q. Did you have any conversation with any of the men?

A. Nothing further than ascertaining what was going on. I went down to the lower round-house after my engine.

Q. Did you go out that night?

A. I did.

Q. Were you interfered with?

A. Not in the least--further than having to run carefully through the crowd.

Q. Were you present during the riotous conduct, on any of those days from Thursday morning?

A. I made my usual trips on Thursday and on Friday without any trouble, any more than this crowd getting on and off the engine between Torrens and Pittsburgh.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. What kind of men were those?

A. The majority of them were not railroad men. They didn't appear to be accustomed to riding trains.

Q. Did they talk?

A. Only among themselves.

Q. What seemed to be their object?

A. They had no object, that I could see.

Q. Merely curiosity?

A. More curiosity than anything else.

Q. Have you any knowledge of new facts not related by the other engineers or conductors here who have testified?

A. Nothing. They have filled up all I can say.

Q. Can you give us any new light, as to the organization of the men or their plans of action, or the names of the prominent strikers?

A. I don't know the names of many of them.

Q. What do you know about the causes of the riot?

A. Nothing, only the double-headers.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Were you permitted to run the passenger trains without interference?

A. Until Saturday night.

Q. How about the freight trains. Were they permitted to run?

A. Not to my knowledge.

Q. They were stopped?

A. Except when I passed through with the train. I was not there. I didn't see the freight trains from that Thursday until the Sunday after running. I was aware of the fact that there was a suspension of business.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. What was the difficulty with the passenger trains on Saturday night?

A. Coming in from the five-twenty trip, they told us that we couldn't go out again. Some men got on the engine and told me so.

Q. Do you know where those men were from?

A. I don't know. It was night, and I didn't pay much attention to their appearance.

Q. Were they miners, or mill men, or tramps, or railroad men?

A. They were not railroad men; they didn't talk like it, or look like it.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Did you hear any threats?

A. They only told me I was not to go out again.

Q, They only complained about the orders for running double-headers?

A. Yes.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. These men gave no reasons for refusing to allow you to go out again on Saturday night?

A. No; I suppose they thought I knew.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Did the men know of any reason why the double-headers were to be run?

A. I was not running freight.

Q. You know nothing about freight?

A. It was about that order I heard them talking.

Adjourned until to-morrow, at three o'clock, P.M.

ORPHANS' COURT ROOM, PITTSBURGH, SATURDAY, _February 9, 1878_

Pursuant to adjournment, the committee assembled at three o'clock, P.M., this day, and continued the taking of testimony.

The first witness examined was

* * * * *

Archibald Jeffrey, _sworn with the uplifted hand_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. No. 32 Anderson street.

Q. How long have you resided there?

A. Going on three years.

Q. What is your business?

A. I am a machinist.

Q. Were you in the vicinity of the disorders that occurred, commencing on the 19th day of July last--that day or at any time following?

A. I was out there on the 22d--I believe that is Saturday evening.

Q. At what point?

A. About Twenty-eighth street.

Q. Tell us what you saw there?

A. There was a great deal of noise around there for awhile.

Q. Made by whom?

A. I can't just exactly tell who.

Q. There was a crowd there?

A. Yes.

Q. Composed of what classes?

A. Of most every class.

Q. How large a crowd was there?

A. I have no idea--I suppose a thousand or fifteen hundred men--I suppose so.

Q. How long before the burning was it that you speak about?

A. I went out there in the evening about five o'clock--along there--and I think the burning commenced about ten and a half o'clock.

Q. What was the conduct of the crowd at five or six o'clock, when you went there first?

A. That was after the shooting had been done out there.

Q. After the firing by the militia, you mean?

A. Yes.

Q. What was the condition of the crowd at that time?

A. There was a lot of talking going on about the soldiers; but not being interested in the thing at all, I didn't pay much attention to it.

Q. What kind of talk was it?

A. They appeared to be angry about the soldiers firing at the crowd.

Q. Where was the crowd assembled then?

A. About Twenty-eighth street, near the crossing.

Q. Did you see anybody set fire to any car or building, or anything in the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street?

A. I did see one man. He was the only man.

Q. Who was he?

A. Matthew Marshall.

Q. What time was that?

A. It was in the afterpart of the night. I can't say exactly.

Q. What was it he fired?

A. A car of coke.

Q. Where was the car standing?

A. On the track, about two squares above Twenty-eighth street.

Q. Just describe how he did it; where he got his fire; how it took place?

A. I don't know where he got his fire. When I noticed him first he was in the car. He had a bunch of shavings, and was in a sitting down position, and appeared to me to be kindling a fire. When the fire got kindled he jumped out. I saw him fifteen or twenty minutes afterwards. He was the only person I know of.

Q. Did you speak to him?

A. No.

Q. Was anybody with him?

A. I didn't notice anybody with him.

Q. What was the result of the kindling of the fire?

A. If there had been no other fire it would have burnt that car up; but there was fire all around.

Q. Other cars were then on fire?

A. Yes; burning at the same time.

Q. What has become of Mr. Marshall?

A. He is in prison--over the river.

Q. At whose instigation was he arrested?

A. I can't say that myself.

Q. You were not present when the firing took place by the militia?

A. No.

Q. Did you see any other fires kindled?

A. I don't believe I did.

Q. Describe whether there were other fires going on then, and how they were kindled, and what the mob were doing, and describe all the circumstances that took place at that time?

A. There appeared to me to be a gang of men. I don't know who they were--whether railroaders or not.