Part 129
A. Not a great many. I served with the Pittsburghers for three years, and I met a few of them out there.
Q. You knew some of the Pittsburghers?
A. Yes; I have served with them.
Q. In what regiment were you?
A. The Sixty-first Pennsylvania, commanded by Oliver H. Ripley, of Pittsburgh.
Q. You met some of them there while on this trip?
A. Yes.
Q. State whether you were led to believe that the people of Pittsburgh sympathized with the rioters?
A. There is no doubt about it.
Q. That they sympathized with the rioters?
A. Entirely so.
Q. And were hostile towards the Philadelphia soldiers?
A. It was very difficult to tell whether they despised the Pennsylvania Railroad Company or the Philadelphia troops most; but they certainly hated both of them. They were very angry at our coming out there.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You spoke of citizens of Pittsburgh. Was it not the crowd that surrounded you there, or in the mob that you heard these conversations that led you to think that the people were in sympathy with the rioters?
A. No. Not to that extent. Some of my old regiment, the Sixty-first Pennsylvania, came to see me the following Sunday, after we went back, and took occasion to say that it was a great mistake, that they were sorry to see me where I was, and that they didn't want to see any of the Sixty-first coming out there. And they were very bitter.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Of what class of men were they--what positions did they hold in life?
A. They were working men, I should judge--men employed in the mills, probably, that work hard for a living, but yet, might be good citizens.
Q. You heard them talk so?
A. They said they were sorry to see me there.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you have charge of the prisoners captured at Johnstown?
A. General Brinton captured three men on the railroad track, and they were taken back, and I think, handed over to the charge of the Washington Grays.
Q. Did you take any of those prisoners to Pittsburgh, and hand them over to the civil authorities?
A. Yes. And we were most grossly insulted by a policeman in the station-house at the time. He was an officer.
Q. What was the nature of that insult?
A. He could have easily passed my company. We were in line, and he insisted on pushing me out of his road into the ranks. And I asked him if he couldn't go by without breaking the company up, and he turned around and made use of a very impertinent answer. He was a great big fellow.
Q. Did you learn his name?
A. No.
Q. Or rank?
A. He was an officer, I know. He broke the left of my company up. He was a man that weighed two hundred and sixty, and was six feet two or three inches high. He was a very fine large man, but a very great blackguard, none the less. There seemed to be some spite against the soldiers out there on the part of everybody.
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Silas W. Pettit, _sworn_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State your rank in the militia, in July last?
A. I was judge advocate of the First division, with the rank of major, in July last, when the division went out, on General Brinton's staff.
Q. Go on and state the circumstances, omitting the details?
A. I was called out about eight or nine o'clock in the evening, and together with the other staff officers went around to notify the different commands, and about two and a half o'clock or two o'clock we left the Pennsylvania railroad depot, about six hundred strong, and got to Pittsburgh about two and a half o'clock on Saturday afternoon. When we got there, General Brinton reported to General Latta. We went upstairs into a room in the hotel. General Latta was there, and General Pearson, and Mr. Quay, and some others. We then marched out. In the meantime, the men were getting fed. We marched out toward Twenty-eighth street, along the track. They had horses for the Gatling guns, but no proper harness or arrangements for them, and the guns had to be hauled by hand. When we got near Twenty-eighth street, General Pearson ordered General Brinton to detach a part of his command to keep the track clear in the rear, and as a result of that, the Second brigade was left, General Pearson superintending that part of the command, to keep those tracks in the rear clear, and the rest of the command--the First brigade--consisting of the First regiment, and the Third regiment, and the Weccacoe Legion, and the Washington Grays, and battery went on towards Twenty-eighth street. When we got there, or close to it, the crowd was very thick on the track and on the hills, and in the empty and loaded cars on our left. The command was formed then into two ranks, the rear rank clearing one side and the front rank the other; but the crowd commenced to press in between the ranks, and the Weccacoe Legion and Washington Grays were thrown across the front. Then we attempted to push the crowd back, and just as we got to Twenty-eighth street the fuss commenced. The sheriff and a posse were in front of us, and they attempted to arrest somebody, as far as I could make out, and clear the tracks themselves, but they failed. The firing took place immediately upon the order to charge bayonets, given to the Washington Grays and Weccacoe Legion. Some men were hurt with the bayonets.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Firing from the troops or the mob?
A. From the crowd. The firing from the troops immediately followed. The air seemed to be full of stones, and a great many pistol shots were fired from underneath the cars, and from over fences near the round-house. We got in on both sides of us--on both flanks and in front--then the troops fired. I may be mistaken, but I thought I heard an order when the firing took place.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Whence did the order come?
A. I cannot tell that very well. I was between the two ranks--a few feet from the head of the column. It was a short column, not many men in it--not over two hundred and fifty all told, while the crowd must have been ten or fifteen thousand, and it looked pretty short in consequence. I heard the firing, and the men towards the fences and cars returned the fire, and it cleared them, and then they fired up the hill. The men facing the hill fired that way, and the men in front fired, and the crowd commenced to run. The order was given then to cease firing, and I endeavored to see it enforced, and to stop the firing as soon as the order was given. It was all over in a few moments.
Q. Who gave the order first to cease firing?
A. I heard General Brinton give that order when the crowd was running. Of course, it was my duty to see that it was done.
Q. When they commenced firing how far were you from General Brinton?
A. I cannot tell exactly. General Brinton had gone front. I thought he was with General Pearson, and I was standing where he left me. He didn't ask me to follow him, and I stopped there. He went up towards the sheriff's posse. They were apparently in among the crowd right where that little watch-tower was or is.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You say you heard an order?
A. To cease firing. I thought I heard an order to fire before that.
Q. Before there was any firing by the troops?
A. I thought I heard an order to fire--commence firing.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you see who it was that fired first?
A. It was over on the right of the First regiment--these two companies that were crossed from the front--it was right there it commenced. It could not have been delayed, however.
Q. You stood between the ranks?
A. The ranks were open, and all the officers were between them. The men had been faced outwards to drive the crowd away. It was the only formation that could have been made at the time.
Q. Were you in the round-house during the night?
A. After this firing the tracks were cleared, and the First brigade was turned across Twenty-eighth street. The crowd were all off the tracks, and nobody was allowed to cross them except those carrying dead and wounded. In one or two instances women came up or men who wanted to go up the hill to their residences; but the main tracks were as clear as Arch street is now. General Brinton reported the tracks were clear, and that he was ready to protect the trains; but we didn't get any, and we waited there for a considerable time. General Brinton went to the round-house with Colonel Wilson, and I remained out where I was, he not asking me to accompany him, and after awhile we received an order to go into the round-house. We took in the command and the guns that were commanded by Captain Breck, and then brought in the Second brigade, which had been back there all this time, and the men were posted in the round-house and the machine-shop, or paint-shop, and lumber-yard. I accompanied General Brinton up stairs into the office, where General Pearson was. The crowd commenced to come around the buildings with jeers and whoops, and were firing shots. General Brinton desired permission to drive them away, which was refused. Shortly after that, two of our sentries were wounded. General Brinton reported that fact, and desired permission to protect himself and drive the mob away, which was again refused him. Several of General Pearson's staff, whose names I don't know, and several railroad men, and Mr. Pitcairn, I think, and Mr. Cassatt, and I think that Mr. Watt was there, but I am not certain about him. Before they left it was fully dark, somewhere between eight and ten o'clock. General Pearson left, and told General Brinton that he was going to the depot to report to General Latta, and get orders and get provisions for the command, and that he would be back.
Q. What orders did he give General Brinton about matters while he was absent?
Q. He told him, if necessary, that he must use his own discretion until his return, but gave him to understand that he would be back in some little time--a few hours. Then we stayed there during the night. There was a good deal of firing. It sounded like an extra Fourth of July. The men who were on duty as sentinels and guarding parts of the building were alert; and the rest of the men were resting themselves.
Q. Just state what the conduct of the troops was during the night?
A. They were in good condition--in good spirits, and subordinate--they were in first-rate condition, except that they were hungry. I didn't see this trouble with the Sixth regiment, although I heard of it. But the Sixth regiment marched out in as good shape as any other. They are a regiment scattered all over the city, pretty much. They have no regimental armory, and have labored under a great many difficulties, and have not got that regimental organization and _esprit de corps_ which they would have if they had proper facilities. They are poor men--workingmen, and scattered almost over the city, and it is a wonder to me that they ever kept together at all. When we were going to march out, it was necessary to clear that part of the street, and they cleared it. They opened fire out of some of the windows.
Q. Which regiment?
A. The left of the Sixth regiment. Captain Ryan's men were guarding at the board-yard.
Q. Was there any firing going out Penn street?
A. Yes; the command passed out--I don't know what direction it is--the west end of the machine shop in good order. I had cause to know that, because I went back while they were marching out, to see whether Captain Breck had spiked his guns. They were too heavy for us to take with us, and we had no ropes to haul them by. I saw the whole column. We were marching in column of fours. We had received orders during the night to go, and at the time we left the round-house was on fire, and it was a physical impossibility for men to stay there.
Q. Did you see any policemen at the station, as you passed out Penn street?
A. I saw a number of policemen at the place which I took to be a station-house. It may not have been. In talking about it afterwards, we always spoke of it as a station-house. As I remember, it had a lamp or bracket in front of it. It may have been an engine-house, or some sort of a public hall. A crowd was there of fifteen or twenty men, dressed in police uniform. Of course, I don't know that they were policemen. I did not see them fire.
Q. Whereabouts were you in the column?
A. I was at the rear part of the time--most of the time--but went forward to report to General Brinton what was the state of affairs there. Then I would come back and see what was going on along the column. The First regiment was front, and the Third regiment in the rear of them, and the battery, and the Weccacoe Legion, and the Washington Grays, and I think Captain Ryan at that time was in the center, and then the Sixth regiment in the rear.
Q. Did you hear any firing from near the station-house as you passed?
A. It was pretty near all the time, and I didn't notice it specially. It was a subject of conversation afterward among ourselves, that that firing had taken place among the policemen.
Q. Were you present when General Brinton met Major Buffington at the arsenal?
A. I was at the rear at that time.
Q. And you didn't hear what took place?
A. I did not. I went to the arsenal--I went up to the front of the column, and was told that General Brinton was in the arsenal, and I jumped over the fence--I was refused admission at the gate--and I went in there, but I met a lot of wounded men and I told them where to go, and I thought, perhaps, I had better go back. So I went back to the rear.
Q. Where did you tell them to go?
A. I told them to go up towards the buildings, and get attended to. They allowed the wounded to go in. They took in Lieutenant Ash and all the wounded.
Q. Were you in the regular army during the late war?
A. I was in the Fifteenth Infantry.
Q. For how long?
A. I was in there about a year. I was only a boy, and my health gave out.
Q. What is your profession now?
A. I am an attorney-at-law.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was Captain Breck in the round-house during the night you were there?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he remain there until you left?
A. Yes; he remained there, and seemed to desire to do his duty, as did his command. He only had a squad, however.
Q. Where did he go with his command after you left the round-house?
A. Nowhere; his men scattered in the city. We could not take his guns, and I suppose he didn't think he was obliged to go with us.
Q. Do you know how many men he had?
A. About a dozen or fifteen at the outside. Then there was a Captain Murphy who offered to show us the way to the arsenal. I only saw one man with him in uniform. He did his duty as well as he could, and piloted us out there. We were strangers in the city, and didn't know where to go, except that we had orders to go out Penn avenue, and did not know where it was. At Sharpsburg we met Major Norris, and went on towards the poor-house.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you present when Major Norris met General Brinton?
A. I was present when he got out of his carriage.
Q. Did you hear him give any orders?
A. No; I was with the guns we were pulling up. He spoke to me, and then went towards General Brinton, and I didn't see him afterwards. He didn't tell me anything particular, and I never heard of any orders given by him, until about three weeks afterwards.
Walter G. Wilson, re-called:
By the witness: I simply want to make a little correction in my testimony, in regard to the arsenal. I stated I was not aware of any sentinel or sergeant accompanying us. My impression was it was Captain Murphy, of the Jefferson Cavalry, but I have since been informed it was a sergeant of the guard. I simply want to have that matter corrected.
E. DeC. Loud, re-called:
By the witness: A statement has been made here, in regard to the Sixth regiment, which I wish to correct. It was one of my brigade. They had about one hundred and ninety to two hundred men that night. That company that Captain Ryan testified in regard to had somewhere in the neighborhood of twenty men.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. The company that wanted to lay down their arms?
A. Yes; I went in to see about the matter, and I could find nothing of it. The thing had been all quieted over, and when the troops were ordered out, they obeyed as promptly as any other troops.
Q. Who was the captain of that command?
A. There was no captain, but a lieutenant.
Q. What was his name?
A. I don't remember now. I thought it was nothing but a company growl. This company was peculiarly situated. It had a position where they could see nothing of what was going on. I heard from my adjutant general that something was going on--some disturbance--and I went to see about it; but the whole thing was quieted over. The men said they understood that all were going out, and they thought they might as well go out as anybody else, as they had not any chance to get anything to eat. They couldn't defend themselves, and they got tired, and they had nothing to eat. I didn't attach any importance to it, because when I took them out on the street they stood up to their work as well as the rest of them.
At this point, the committee adjourned to three o'clock, P.M.
SAME DAY.
MONDAY, _March 25, 1878_.
Pursuant to adjournment, the committee re-assembled at three o'clock, P.M., this day, in the St. Cloud hotel, and continued the taking of testimony.
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Alexander Gilchrist, _sworn by the uplifted hand_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. At No. 1806, Webster street.
Q. Were you with General Brinton at Pittsburgh, in July last?
A. I was.
Q. In what capacity?
A. Division orderly.
Q. Were you stationed on Saturday afternoon, when the firing occurred, at Twenty-eighth street.
A. At the telegraph office.
Q. Who placed you there?
A. I was placed there by order of General Brinton, who told me to place his division flag out there. I did so. The troops were marched towards Twenty-eighth street. He told me if any dispatches came, to bring them down to him. I put the division flag out there, and kept it out until five and a half o'clock. Then I understood from Major Baugh that the mob was trying to pull the flag down, and he told me to take it down, and put it in the Union depot. I did so. He then told me to get some men of the Black Hussars, and keep guard over some ammunition there. We did so, until two o'clock Sunday morning.
Q. How many of the Black Hussars were with you?
A. Four or five were there. We kept guard there until very near daybreak. At that time the men said they were going to get something to eat, and I said I would remain until they came back. But no one came back. I then went to major Baugh, and said nobody was on guard but myself over the ammunition, and he said they had shifted for themselves, and I thought I had better do so. I addressed him as major, and he said don't address me as major. He wanted me to drop that. I remained until the people came out of church, and I said I was not going to stay there any longer by myself. I said I was going to try to find out where the division was, and I asked a police officer where the mayor's office was. He said down the street. I said what street. I didn't know the streets. He said, oh, you are one of those Philadelphians. I said yes. One of those damned Philadelphians. He said, down the street, and any person can tell you where it is. I went down to a stone building, and asked a citizen if that was the mayor's office, and he said it was. I went inside, and asked somebody if he could tell where the mayor was, and he said yes, in the back room. I went in and asked a man if he was the mayor. He said he was. I asked if he could tell me where the Philadelphia division was. He said, do you mean General Pearson's division. I said no; General Brinton's division. He said, I don't know anything about that damned division. They ought to be all burned or killed, or something of that kind.
Q. You were certain it was Mayor McCarthy?
A. He was pointed out to me by an officer.
Q. Did you ask him?
A. I asked if he was the mayor of the city, and he said he was.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What did he say?
A. I asked him if he could tell me where the Philadelphia division was, and he said he didn't know anything about the division--that they ought to be all killed or in hell, and I thanked him and came away, and went down to Union depot again. That was just before they set fire to it. I stood there a few minutes. At that time the fire was caught to the telegraph office, adjoining the sheds. I thought probably I could get in and get the division flag, but the flames got in that far. I went in, and counted four officers and a sergeant of police. I went to go up stairs, and the sergeant asked where I was going. I said I wanted to get the division flag. He said you just get out of here, or I will break my club over your damned neck. I tried two or three times, and every time I was told I couldn't go up.
Q. Where was this ammunition stored that you guarded during Saturday night?
A. It was in the cellar, at the Union depot.
Q. You remained there until two o'clock Sunday, guarding it?
A. Yes.
Q. When you left, was there anybody guarding it?
A. No. Nobody was there at all. Every person had cleared out.
Q. Did Captain Breck come there at any time during Sunday, to move the ammunition?
A. Not that I saw.
Q. Was any attempt made to move the ammunition while you were there?
A. No; the ammunition was all burned up. On Saturday night, I was standing at the gate there, as you go into Union depot; two citizens were standing there talking, and they said it would be the roughest day's work for the Philadelphia militia coming there; that not a damned one would go back alive.
Q. How were they dressed?
A. They looked to me to be like business men.
Q. From their dress, you would think they were?
A. Yes.
Q. Did they say anything else?
A. No; that is all I heard. I was standing right behind them at the time.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Whereabouts was the division head-quarters?
A. At the telegraph office.
Q. At Union depot?
A. No; a little office at the far end of the sheds, towards Twenty-eighth street. General Latta was sending telegraphs from there.
Q. Was it at the end of the sheds connected with Union depot, or down in the yard further?
A. Say there is Union depot, then there is a line of sheds running down towards Twenty-eight street, and there is a little off sort of place there, and a telegraph office on the first floor.
Q. Some distance from Twenty-eighth street?
A. I don't know how far Twenty-eighth street is.
Q. Was it attached to the sheds?
A. I would not say that for certain, but I think it was.
* * * * *
Wilson Norris, _sworn by the uplifted hand_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State your residence, and what official capacity you were acting in, in July last?
A. I live here in Philadelphia. In July last, I was going from Beaver to Pittsburgh, when the riots broke out. General Latta requested me to accompany him. At that time I was going west to visit Colonel Quay. I did accompany him to Pittsburgh, and during the night the riot broke out. The general then requested me to stay. I was there during the whole period of the riot, and subsequently. It would be a long story, to go on and tell all I saw, but I will be glad to answer any questions.
Q. Did you convey any orders, or visit General Brinton at any time to convey any orders to him from General Latta?