Part 128
A. Yes. I was trying to get to General Brinton, to make arrangements about feeding the soldiers. When I found what affection they had for us I would move on again. They wanted every damned one sent home in a box.
By Mr. Means:
Q. You looked upon that as the disposition manifested towards the Philadelphia soldiers?
A. Yes; indeed, it was--all Saturday night and Sunday morning when I left town.
Q. Did they go for you once in the depot?
A. In the West Pennsylvania depot they did, or I thought they did, and I got out. I knew what they were from the night previous.
Q. For your own safety, you thought it better to get away?
A. Yes.
* * * * *
George Francis Leland, _sworn with the uplifted hand_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. 1622 Chestnut street.
Q. You were a member of the National Guard in July last?
A. I was adjutant of the Third regiment of infantry.
Q. Colonel Snowden's regiment?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you with him at Twenty-eighth street when the firing occurred?
A. I was. Just below Twenty-eighth street.
Q. Did you hear any orders given to fire?
A. I didn't. I heard Colonel Snowden distinctly say that no one was to fire until they received orders, and they received no orders from him to fire.
Q. Were you in the round-house during that night?
A. I was.
Q. State what the conduct of the troops was during the night, as to discipline?
A. It was very good, I think as far as I am a judge.
Q. Was there any insubordination?
A. No; none whatever.
Q. What was the condition of the round-house when you left in the morning?
A. It was on fire, I should judge from the amount of sparks and smoke and flame about us. Some of the troops attempted to put the flames out, but did not succeed.
Q. Was it safe to remain in the round-house any longer?
A. It was not.
Q. How did the troops march out--in good order?
A. In excellent order.
Q. Where were you in the line of march?
A. With the right of our detachment part of the time, and part of the time in the rear. We only had about forty-three men in our regiment.
Q. Was there any firing along the line in the street?
A. Yes.
Q. Where did it come from?
A. I should judge from citizens of Pittsburgh.
Q. Did you see any firing?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see any person when they fired?
A. Yes; one or two I could pick out if I should see them again.
Q. What class of citizens were they?
A. The ordinary class of citizens--mechanics and workingmen; and I saw some policemen fire, too.
Q. Where were they?
A. At a station-house, evidently, from the number of men grouped around it.
Q. A police station-house?
A. Yes.
Q. How many of them?
A. Twenty-five or thirty of them.
Q. Did they fire as you passed them?
Q. They fired after we passed. I should judge the firing they did was intended for General Loud's command. They were in our rear.
Q. They fired on the rear of the line?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see them when they fired?
A. Yes; I think I did. I looked back--I was attracted by the noise--and I turned my head, and I distinctly heard not only the noise, but saw the smoke and the raising of their arms among this crowd of men that I took to be policemen.
Q. Were they in uniform?
A. Yes; or in dark looking hats and blue sack-coats, I think. I am not familiar with the uniform of the police of that city.
Q. Did you see any pistols in their hands?
A. Yes; as I passed I saw one with a pistol by his side. One of them stood by the curbstone, as if he was reviewing us.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did they have their maces?
A. I think not, but I am not positive about that. I didn't notice any belts.
Q. Did you see a uniform on any one policeman--a full uniform?
A. I don't know what it is; but the uniform that most of them had on was the same uniform I noticed on the police officers after we returned to the city.
Q. When did you return to the city?
A. I think on the 28th of July.
Q. And the uniform was the same that you saw those men wearing?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see any of the policemen on your return to the city, who were in that crowd?
A. I couldn't distinguish any of them. We were marching rather rapidly, and I was, in fact, too far off--probably fifty or one hundred feet. I couldn't recognize them again.
Q. How many shots were fired from that crowd?
A. I cannot tell that--quite a number, I should judge--half a dozen, or a dozen, or more.
Q. Did they wait until your men had passed, before they fired?
A. Yes.
Q. And they fired into your rear?
A. Yes.
Q. What effect did the firing have?
A. I cannot say that it had any. I know none were killed about there, or I don't think there were any. There may have been some wounded--scratches.
Q. Was the firing returned by your men?
A. No; it was not.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you see that man with the linen duster following the command, with a musket?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see him shoot?
A. Yes; I remember that fellow distinctly. He followed us quite a distance. I remember another fellow particularly--a man with a crutch. As we went along he stood on the sidewalk, and I saw what I took to be a navy revolver in his hand as we passed, and after we passed he deliberately fired and run down a side street, and I could go right to the locality and pick that fellow out; I took a good look at him; I was on the right, near the gutter, and close to him as we passed him. They said afterwards that this fellow in the duster was the man that had been pegging away at us all night with a rifle that had a bullet that exploded when it struck. He kept it up all night while we were in the round-house. They said afterwards that he had lost a brother, and he wanted to be revenged. I am not positive, but I think he was killed--shot.
Q. Did you see any firing from houses?
A. Yes; from second-story windows.
Q. How long after you had left the round-house?
A. Some distance down--somewhere in the neighborhood of this police station. The firing I saw from the windows was on the left-hand side going up this street.
Q. Going eastward?
A. I don't know the location of Pittsburgh.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Towards the arsenal?
A. Yes; on the left hand side I noticed firing from the windows, and the police station was on the right hand.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You say this man was killed?
A. I heard he was.
* * * * *
Thompson Lennig, _sworn_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State your residence?
A. 1300 Walnut street.
Q. Were you with General Brinton at Pittsburgh, in July last?
A. I was in the division--yes.
Q. What was your rank?
A. I was a private at that time.
Q. In which regiment?
A. In the artillery corps, Washington Grays.
Q. State what your position was in the line in moving out Penn street in the morning?
A. I was helping to drag the first one of the Gatling guns.
Q. State whether there was any firing from houses or from persons along the street?
A. There was no firing, as far as I remember, until we had gone five or six squares, and I thought when there was no firing, that we were going to get out of the town without any trouble at all. It was not until shortly after we had passed the police station on our right, that the firing began. From that time there was firing until we reached the arsenal.
Q. There was not much until you reached the police station?
A. No. There was considerable firing, which might amount to skirmish firing in real service.
Q. Were there any policemen in the station when you passed?
A. Yes. I don't know how many. I saw eight or ten men turn up in line on the curb, and I think there may have been from ten to twenty-five scattered around. As I say, I saw eight or ten turn up in line on the curb as we passed.
Q. Was there any firing by the police or the troops as you passed?
A. That I don't know. I didn't say it; but I should like to say this: that there was firing, and as we passed by the station, I noticed one policeman particularly whose face was impressed upon me. And I saw him the following Sunday--the week following--the 29th of July, when I was wandering through the ruins, with a corporal of the Washington Grays. I saw this same man, and I accosted him and said, that I had seen him in front of the police station last Sunday, and he said he had been there. I then said that I heard it stated among our men that you fired upon us, and he said, I didn't fire, but others did, and he even went so far as to say that the lieutenant had ordered them to fire. Corporal Rider, who was with me at the time, heard the whole conversation, and can corroborate everything I have stated.
Q. What is his name?
A. Penn Rider, one of the assistant clerks in common pleas, No. 2.
Q. He stated that he had been ordered to fire?
A. He said that they were ordered by the lieutenant to fire. I saw this man's face.
Q. Just give the language of the policeman as near as you can?
A. I was walking over the ruins and I caught his face. It struck me again, and I said to myself, that is the man I saw last Sunday, and I accosted him, and said, "You were standing in front of the police station last Sunday." He said, "I was." I said, "I have heard from our men that you fired on us as we passed," and he said, "I didn't fire, but others did, and the lieutenant ordered us to do it." That was the whole conversation. I passed along, and didn't see anything more of him.
Q. Did you ask him who the lieutenant of the police was?
A. No.
Q. Have you ever found it out since?
A. I have made no inquiry. After I came back, I made affidavit to these facts, at the request of Colonel Pettit, and I thought it was no longer any matter of mine. It was in their hands.
Q. Did you see that policeman any time after that--have you seen him since?
A. No; I have not been in Pittsburgh since. I happened to be off duty at the time.
Q. Do you think you would recognize that policeman?
A. I should know him if I saw him five years hence.
Q. Was he in uniform when you met him or saw him?
A. Both times.
* * * * *
John W. Ryan, _sworn_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State your residence and what position you held in the National Guard in July last?
A. I live at No. 102 North Fortieth street, and had command of the independent company State Fencibles, attached to the Second brigade, First division.
Q. You accompanied General Brinton to Pittsburgh?
A. Yes.
Q. You were at Twenty-eighth street?
A. Yes.
Q. Where were you stationed after you went to Pittsburgh?
A. I was on the extreme left of the division, the portion of troops closest to Union depot. My company was formed--the major portion of it facing Union depot, with their backs towards Twenty-eighth street, and the smaller portion of it was on front, facing towards Penn street.
Q. What was your duty there?
A. To keep the people out.
Q. And guard the track?
A. To keep the people out, was the instruction I received.
Q. Well?
A. We did so.
Q. Did you have any trouble in doing that?
A. None special. After the firing began, some people came down the hill--came down, and once or twice my men were on the point of firing at them, because they would not go back; but I held the men in as long as possible. It seemed to be more a want of understanding what we wanted them to do. After they found out what we wanted them to do, they did it.
Q. Was there any firing by your company?
A. We didn't fire a shot.
Q. How many men had you in your company?
A. I brought home seventy-four. I had about fifty at that time.
Q. Were you in the round-house during the night?
A. Once in a while I would go over there. My position was not directly in the round-house. I was in the paint shop, I think it is called, or the machine shop, or something of the kind.
Q. Adjoining the round-house?
A. Yes; and out in the board-yard. They sent us out there until we got ready to move out of the position.
Q. Was any attack made upon you in the shops during the night?
A. No; not directly.
Q. State what the discipline of the troops was--taking the whole command of General Brinton during the night?
A. There was no complaint--it was as good as might be expected.
Q. Was there any insubordination or refusal to obey orders that came under your observation?
A. Yes; some.
Q. Relate it?
A. When the companies of the Sixth regiment were formed into line, the company next to mine--I sent one of my sergeants to find out the matter, and he came back and told me that they proposed to lay down their arms and go home, and I said I would like to see them try it, and I intend to shoot them if they attempt to do it.
Q. Did you see them afterwards or talk to them about it afterwards?
A. I intended to hunt the officers up; but while making up my mind to proceed in the matter, orders came to get ready to move, and that broke the little arrangement up.
Q. Did they move when the order came--did they obey the command?
A. Yes; so far as I could see, they did. They behaved as well as the rest did.
Q. They didn't throw down their arms?
A. No.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you say to them after you heard it, that you would shoot them?
A. I told them I wouldn't let them out. I told the commander that. My company was put on guard as soon as we got into that portion of the grounds.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What attracted your attention was something unusual in that particular command?
A. Yes; they were forming, and I had not received any orders to do so, and was anxious to know what they were forming for.
Q. How many were reported as going to throw down their arms?
A. One company.
Q. How many men were in that company?
A. Probably thirty.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What was the reason they gave for doing this, if they gave any?
A. They didn't seem to give any. It was sort of dissatisfaction.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you see the officer of the company--the captain?
A. I saw an officer in front of them, and afterwards learned he was a lieutenant.
Q. You had no talk with him?
A. No.
Q. What was the conduct of the balance of the men in the division, so far as you could judge?
A. In the round-house?
Q. Yes.
A. First rate.
Q. It was that of soldiers?
A. Yes; and very patient ones, under the circumstances, I thought.
Q. Were you in the army during the late war?
A. Yes.
Q. How long were you out?
A. Over four years.
Q. What proportion of your company has seen service?
A. I don't know exactly now--we did represent one hundred and fifty-one years at one time in the company.
Q. Of actual service?
A. Yes; all the officers and non-commissioned officers, with one exception, were veterans.
Q. How many men were there in the company, when they represented one hundred and fifty-one years?
A. Sixty-seven men. Late on Saturday afternoon, I sent to the brigade commander, and asked permission to come and see him, and I waited, and asked if I could not have permission to drive the people away from the gate, that they were blackguarding us in the most scandalous manner.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What gate?
A. Leading out on the street. Men, women, and half-grown boys. It was the most outrageous language I ever heard in my life. When we would go up, and attempt to drive them away, they would just stand and spit at us, and call us all sorts of names. But my men stood it, and walked up and down, and paid no attention to them. But they finally got brandishing revolvers, and the excitement had become intense, when one of my corporals says to me: "I don't think we can stand it any longer, unless you give us permission to kill some of those people out there." and I said if I get permission, I will give it to you very quick. So I asked General Loud, if he would give permission, and he said: "I have no authority," and I asked if I might go and see General Brinton. I did so, and asked the question, and was told that permission could not be given. I said who was in command, and was told General Pearson. I said I know the gentleman, and will you give me permission to go and see him. I stated the position to him, and stated it was impossible to hold out any longer at the gate, and he said: "you must not agitate them. I don't want you to excite them poor people." They were too close to his heart. I turned away perfectly disgusted.
Q. You held the position you were commanded to hold?
A. Yes; after that General Loud thought it would be a little more secure to put some iron in front of the gate, which we did. I would have been glad to have given a little lead instead. They blackguarded us so that I was anxious to square matters with them.
Q. You could have cleared the tracks at that time?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you hear any women using obscene language to the troops?
A. They were a little worse than the men. The language was terrible. One young fellow about twenty years of age climbed on to the stone post of the gate, and blackguarded us for the longest time. I have got a very large corporal, and he made a deliberate set at that man. The corporal said, can't I put him off, and I said, yes, he said he makes use of language more than I ever took of any one. I said knock him off, if he don't get off, or give him a jab with a bayonet; but he slipped off.
Q. What company of the Sixth regiment was it that wanted to lay down their arms?
A. I cannot say, but I can furnish the testimony of that fact from the members of my company, who reported the matter to me. I considered it of such little importance at the time that I really didn't pay much attention to it.
Q. They didn't lay down their arms, and obeyed orders afterwards?
A. No; they didn't lay down their arms, and I think that, notwithstanding their disposition to do an unmilitary act, if they had been called into line and directed to do their duty as soldiers at that time, they would have done so cheerfully.
Q. Did they remain with your command during the rest of your military movements?
A. Yes.
Q. And went to Scranton with you?
A. Yes.
Q. Did they observe their duty as soldiers after that?
A. As far as I saw, entirely so.
Q. You say you didn't ascertain their reasons for wanting to lay down their arms?
A. Not especially so. It was a sort of a growl they got into.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Were they not a little disgusted, like yourself?
A. I think they would have stood it a little better if they had had orders to defend themselves.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. How many companies are there in this Sixth regiment?
A. I don't know, but I think they are eight--I don't know exactly.
Q. How many men about in the regiment?
A. I should judge they had about one hundred and fifty men.
Q. How many men in a company?
A. About thirty men--twenty-five or thirty.
Q. Was it a larger company than the rest of them?
A. I don't believe there were over twenty or twenty-five men that appeared in line when my attention was called to them. My company lay across the entrance of the paint-shop at this time, and this company was on the right. I said to one of the sergeants what is that company forming for, and he said I don't know, and I said go and see, and he came back and said they proposed to quit, and lay down their arms and go home.
Q. You didn't hear them say it yourself?
A. No; I saw the company in line. I told the sergeant to see what they were in line for, and he came back and reported that they proposed to lay down their arms and go home. I said I would like to see them try it.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What time in the night was that?
A. It was in the morning--sometime before we started away.
Q. After daylight?
A. Yes.
Q. As late as seven o'clock?
A. I cannot tell you that, because I don't remember the time we left the round-house. It was a short time before we left. I know that the orders we got to get ready to move broke the little arrangement up for them.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did they lay down their arms any of them?
A. No; they had their arms in their hands. I didn't think it amounted to anything at all.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What is the name of the sergeant that brought you the information?
A. George Simpson.
Q. Do you know where he is now?
A. I think I can find him in a short time. I think he is about the armory of the State Fencibles.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You were with the balance of the troops as they retired out Penn street?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see any firing from citizens or policemen on your troops?
A. I saw some firing--considerable.
Q. By whom?
A. It was very hard to tell. I saw parties firing out of a street car. I saw a man fire the shot that I thought killed those two men in the Sixth regiment. It was about the time that the street car came along. I heard General Loud's testimony in reference to the car matter, and I thought at the time, and do yet, that he is mistaken about it. I think yet it was a single man that killed those two men and a single bullet.
Q. One shot?
A. Yes; I saw him raise the rifle.
Q. From the car window?
A. No; but behind a large iron pipe lying along the road where a stone wall runs along on the right hand side as we came down. I saw him raise the rifle, and saw his head down on the sight, and I saw the flash, and the bullet came along and cut some little limbs off a tree behind us. I could almost trace its flight until it struck these men, and the two of them fell almost at the same instant; and I thought before, and do yet, that that was the man who killed those two men.
Q. Was it near the car?
A. The car was down in the hollow, and this was when we were going up the hill, before we got to the arsenal. I called up two or three of my men and said, shoot that fellow, and we tried to, but we didn't succeed, and I am sorry we didn't. Just then things got mixed up a little, and we were ordered to the rear, and we stayed there as long as there was any firing going on, when they took us up and puts us on the right until we found a camping ground.
Q. Did you see any policemen on your march?
A. Yes; quite a squad in front of a fire engine house or a police station house. It had the appearance of either of those two places. They were strung along the curb-stone as we went along. Some of boys were hallooing "pass in review," "guide right," as soldiers will sometimes, even under the most trying circumstances. I noticed half a dozen or probably ten people there that I supposed to be policemen, with a good many citizens mixed in behind. It looked like a sort of rendezvous for the mob.
Q. Did the policemen make any remarks as you passed?
A. I didn't hear any. There was some firing out of the crowd after we got by a little piece. Some few shots were fired, and I told the boys to turn around and give it to them; but as we turned around, they went into the house.
Q. Could you tell who fired?
A. I could not tell. There were some citizens mixed up with them. I saw smoke, and knew the shots came from the crowd, but whether it was policemen or citizens I cannot say.
Q. How far away were you?
A. Sixty or seventy-five yards.
Q. Were any threats made by those policemen to arrest any of those citizens or the crowd who were following you?
A. No.
Q. Could they have prevented them from following you--the policemen that you saw?
A. If they had had the disposition.
Q. If they had made the effort?
A. Yes; the impression may have been a false one, but our impression was that they were about as bitter enemies as we had there.
By Mr. Means:
Q. You mean the policemen?
A. Yes.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. How did you get that idea?
A. From the manner in which they acted. We regarded them as bad as anybody we had met there, and so far as my boys were concerned we had made up our minds to give it to them when we got a chance. We thought it was their duty to protect the peace, and not assist in breaking it up, and we preferred them to citizens. That is what I mean. We meant to give it to them, if we got a chance.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you have an opportunity to mingle in with the crowd?