Part 125
Q. Was not the mob already dispersed?
A. It was on the crossing, but they were continually gathering.
Q. They were re-assembling?
A. Yes; and some were very demonstrative and very violent.
Q. Did you see General Pearson in the round-house, after you retired there?
A. Yes; he was in the telegraph office, which was immediately adjoining the round-house. A building some four or five feet from the round-house. I think they called it the dispatcher's office. It was the office where the wires centered. It was a square building, directly opposite Twenty-sixth street. I saw General Pearson sitting at a desk writing, when I entered.
Q. In this telegraph office, adjoining the round-house?
A. Yes.
Q. How was he dressed?
A. There was not much light and I could not tell, except that he was dressed in the fatigue uniform of a major general. He had straps on his shoulders, with two stars.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did he have a blouse on?
A. I cannot say.
Q. Did he have a cap on?
A. I don't know. He may not have had any anything on his head in the house. When I saw the officer pointed out as General Pearson, on the tracks, I cannot tell whether he had a cap on or not, but it was something not unmilitary.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. But do not remember whether it was a hat or cap?
A. No. But if he had a silk hat on, with a soldier uniform, I should have noticed it.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Do you know of any telegrams passing between General Brinton and Colonel Scott in regard to General Brinton clearing those tracks?
A. I do not know of any communications whatever, between them; but I am very confident, I am positive, I heard General Brinton say--we said to each other during the afternoon, we have possession of those tracks, and why don't they send out their trains.
Q. Then, in your opinion, they could have sent out trains, so far as you had possession of the tracks?
A. So far as the tracks were cleared up to the point where we were. But we understood the reason to be that the men would not serve.
Q. That they refused to run?
A. That was the excuse we heard; but there was no time during the afternoon, after the first firing, when the crowd were cleared from our immediate neighborhood, and no time, only during the night, that I did not feel as a military officer, that we had command of the position, and were competent to deal with the crowd. The only thing was, that we were lacking rest, and were greatly reduced in strength from hunger.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you hear General Pearson give such an order as follows, to the officers: "Order your men to fire," before the firing took place?
A. I did not--nothing of the kind. I heard nothing in relation to firing, except the first fire.
By Mr. Means:
Q. You suppose that the troops fired in self-defense?
A. I supposed at that time, and I don't know that I have any reason to change my impression, that it was an actual shot--the first shot--and there was so much confusion at the time that it would have been very natural for others to suppose the order was given.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You stated that you saw pistol shots fired from the crowd?
A. It would be more correct to say that I heard them.
Q. Did you see stones and missiles thrown?
A. I did.
Q. Did you consider that an assault on your troops?
A. I did.
Q. Did you not then consider the order to fire justifiable?
A. I did.
* * * * *
Robert A. Ammon re-called:
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What day and what time of the day was it you got word that the Governor was coming to Pittsburgh?
A. I think it was on the 24th. I think it was early in the morning, but won't be positive about that. That is my recollection.
Q. Where did you learn he was at the time?
A. He had left Chicago.
Q. What time did you expect him?
A. I cannot state, as the rioters at that point were not aware when he had left Chicago. I telegraphed along to the different trains, and found he was coming on No. 4.
Q. Did you have any communication with him?
A. Yes.
Q. What did you do when you learned he had come in?
A. I knew some men were lying along on the road, and more especially in Ohio, and I had heard the talk indulged in by the men. Some were in favor of stopping the train, and putting the Governor off. So I telegraphed to the men not to do anything to get the Governor down on us. I asked them to do that to please me, and they telegraphed back that they would.
Q. Did you telegraph them to more than one point?
A. No.
Q. To what point?
A. Latonia, Ohio. I then telegraphed to the Governor, extending a welcome back to the State, and guaranteeing him a safe passage. I won't be positive whether he got my message at Latonia or Salem.
Q. Did the Governor communicate with you?
A. No; but the conductor answered "O.K."
Q. Did you telegraph more than once to the Governor?
A. I believe not.
Q. Where were you when the train arrived?
A. At the outer depot, Allegheny city.
Q. Did you see him immediately on his arrival?
A. Yes; in a Pullman car.
Q. You went in and saw him?
A. Yes; I talked with him about five minutes, I suppose.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What was the nature of the conversation?
A. I went into the car, and as I went in the Governor got up and extended his hand, and I sat down alongside of him. He asked what do you men propose to do. I told him what we had done--that we will behave ourselves. He said that he was glad of it, that he wanted the peace of the State preserved, and that he was glad to see us disposed to save property. He wanted to know if he could do anything for me, and I said nothing, but I would be glad if he would come out on the rear platform, and say something to the boys. He did so, and made a little speech.
Q. How did you introduce him?
A. I just said "boys, this is Governor Hartranft." I pulled the bell cord, and we went up as far as the round-house, and had the train stopped there, and Mr. Perkins, the master mechanic, jumped aboard, and I spoke to him for a while.
By Mr. Means:
Q. How did the boys take the remarks of the Governor?
A. They gave a cheer. I went on to Federal street with him, and a delegation from Pittsburgh met him with carriages, and took him across the river.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you go across the river?
A. Yes.
Q. With the Governor?
A. No; in the crowd that went over. Before I left, I had his car switched over on the West Penn road.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What is your age?
A. Twenty-five years.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Were you at Torrens station on Thursday?
A. No.
Q. On Friday?
A. I came by there on Thursday night or Friday morning.
Q. Were you there when the sheriff came out?
A. I was not.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. At what time were you arrested?
A. I was arrested on the 30th of July, about three and a half o'clock in afternoon.
Q. Was there any preliminary affidavit made?
A. I was arrested on a bench warrant, issued by Judge Ewing.
Q. Who made the information?
A. Chauncey McCoy.
Q. Of what road?
A. Of the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago.
Q. Have they ever taken any steps to bring on your trial?
A. No. I have asked for my trial repeatedly, but have never got it.
Q. Have you asked for your discharge?
A. No; because I don't want a discharge.
Q. Have you demanded a trial?
A. My attorney has asked for my trial. That is what I wish.
Q. Are you under bail now?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you go to Pittsburgh and renew your bail every time?
A. When my bail expires my bond is sent to New York, and I take it to a notary public and sign it, and he puts his seal to it, and I send it back to Pittsburgh.
Q. What is the amount of it?
A. Fifteen hundred dollars.
Q. What are the charges made against you?
A. Misdemeanor, under your own railroad act of March, 1877.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. I wish you would state once more just what is the object of the Trainmen's Union?
A. It was to resist this reduction of ten per cent., and to see if we couldn't bring the company to terms, and get them to look into our condition, so that anything of the kind should not occur again. We thought our labor skilled labor, and we were running great risks, and we thought we ought to earn more money, that instead of reducing it they ought to increase it. The object was to get up a union so strong that the railroad magnates would have to listen to us.
Q. Did you intend to strike?
A. We did, if they did not accede to our demands.
Q. What is a strike?
A. It is a body of men acting together for the purpose of quitting work in a body--to strike, and leave the work alone--as we understood it in the Trainmen's Union. We understood it that every man should leave his work at a given day and hour, and go to his home.
Q. Go to your homes?
A. Yes.
Q. You claimed no right then to interfere with those who desired to work?
A. No; but we claimed the right to use moral suasion. We didn't think we had any right to use any violence at all.
Q. Did you claim any right to interfere with railroad property?
A. No; it didn't belong to us.
Q. Prior to the organization of the Trainmen's Union, did you have any conversation with the officers of the railroad company in relation to this reduction of wages?
A. No; because we didn't think it would be advisable.
Q. Why not?
A. We thought it better to go ahead, and when we were in shape, if they refused we were ready to act.
Q. On the 27th day of June, you sent out forty men to notify all the lodges to get ready for a strike?
A. On Sunday, the 24th of June. Unless our demands were acceded to.
Q. Had you notified the railroad companies of your demand that the ten per cent. should be restored before that?
A. We drew up these resolutions--that is what Mr. Cassatt spoke about--and submitted them by a committee of five to the officials in Pittsburgh--to the local authorities there. They said they did not concern them, and they didn't want anything to do with them.
Q. When was that done?
A. I think on the 25th.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You mean the railroad authorities?
A. Yes. We then asked for passes to come to Philadelphia to see Tom Scott. They wouldn't give us passes, and the boys didn't think they had enough money, with the ten per cent. reduction, to come to Philadelphia. They thought they could quell us by discharging some of the ringleaders, and they discharged a couple hundred of the boys, and this committee were all discharged, and they got around among the men, and said that they did not want them to have anything to do with those men, and they closed the telegraph wires against us, and everything of that kind. So, on the morning of the 27th day of June, we sent a request for them to meet us in the hall.
Q. To whom did you send it?
A. To the local authorities--Lang, Barrett, Scott, Pitcairn. They didn't come. We found we could not get hold of the telegraph wires to work them. On the night of the 26th, on the last train that night they sent out men on the train--thoroughly loyal men, as they called them--men that belonged to the Union, and we thought all right. They carried the news west and east that there would be no strike in Pittsburgh, and we knew nothing of that, but found it out afterwards. On Wednesday, June 27, one of our men jumped over the traces, and brought the word he was going out, and he told us what instructions his conductor had received in regard to the strike. Mr. Barrett, the superintendent of the Pan Handle road, had told him with the other trains he had sent word that night to the men that there would be no strike in Pittsburgh on the 27th. They told all the men to stay at work, that the thing would be arranged later; but it never was arranged. All were under the impression that the bubble would burst sooner or later. When the railroad officials say they had no notice of it, and did not know anything about the strike, why we tried everything in the world to let them know.
Q. In what way?
A. Why they discharged three or four hundred of us, and they certainly discharged us for cause. I received a letter myself from Mr. Thaw stating that I had lost the situation on account of being a member of the Trainmen's Union. I was discharged somewhere near Sunday the 24th of June.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were you discharged before you organized Trainmen's Union lodges on the Baltimore and Ohio railroad in Virginia?
A. I traveled all over the Baltimore and Ohio, and I came back to Pittsburgh--part of the way over the Lake Shore and Michigan Southern and the Cleveland and Pittsburgh. Mr. Thomas had been watching for me, and he stopped me. I had not been paying railroad fares, so I came into Pittsburgh on a freight train.
Q. Were you still an employé?
A. Yes; at that time.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Who was running in your place?
A. An extra man. I got back and reported for duty. I went west and thought I would lay off at Alliance and go out to Chicago, but while at the breakfast table, notice came that the superintendent of the road wanted to see me at his office, and I went over there and had a talk with him, and the consequence was that I was discharged.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. And he gave you that letter you spoke of at that time?
A. Yes; or a few days afterwards, I don't remember which. I don't remember whether it was at that time or a few days afterwards.
Q. Did you ask for the letter?
A. No; but a pass to Chicago. It is customary, when they discharge a man, to give him a pass to where he wants to go.
Q. How did he come to give you that letter?
A. I don't know. I guess he thought he could use me.
Q. Did you ask him for it?
A. No. I guess he thought he was doing me a favor, and that I would return him the favor, if he gave me the letter.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Have you a family?
A. Yes; a wife and two children.
Q. How long have you been married?
A. Four years the 13th day of last September.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Why did you select Pittsburgh for the strike?
A. The 19th of July?
Q. Yes?
A. I don't know. The strike did not originate there. It was not our idea at all. Our idea was to have it all over on the 27th day of June--all over the country--to just stop the traffic all over the country. We thought the public would look at it as we did, unless they could get enough pumpkin rollers and snake hunters to run their roads.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Was that the day the strike took place at Martinsburg?
A. No; It took place there on the 16th of July.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. In making arrangements for this strike, did you talk about Pittsburgh being a suitable place, or a better place, for a strike, on account of the sympathy of the local authorities?
A. No.
By Mr. Means:
Q. How long were you railroading?
A. Between nine and eleven months--about nine months altogether.
Q. Didn't you think you were managing that western road pretty successfully, with the experience you had?
A. I didn't claim credit for it. If I had not had the men I had, I could not have done it.
Q. But were you not the man who run it? You laid out your plans the same as a military officer, and your men carried them out?
A. After Mr. Lang put the road in my possession, I tried to do the best I could for it--for the stockholders.
Q. Did you have the interests of the stockholders at heart? Did you take into consideration their interests more than the interests of the employés of the road--the men you represented?
A. I thought the stockholders were in about the same pew with us. I thought they were about swamped, and that we were.
Q. But I mean the question?
A. I was looking at the stockholders interests when I turned over all the money, and I wanted the boys to get back their ten per cent. I don't know that I made any distinction between them.
Q. But answer my question?
A. I think my sympathies did lean a little towards the boys, because I was one of them myself.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you act as general superintendent of the Fort Wayne and Chicago Railroad, while you were in charge of it?
A. I was supposed to be.
Q. Who acted as dispatcher?
A. A particular friend of mine. I saw that all trains went off, and came in.
Q. Had you a dispatcher acting in that capacity?
A. I had three telegraph operators, but I acted in the capacity of dispatcher myself. I gave the orders.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. While running that railroad as general manager, what would you have done if your men had struck?
A. I would have increased their wages.
Adjourned to Monday morning, at ten o'clock.
PHILADELPHIA, _Monday, March 25, 1878_.
Pursuant to adjournment, the committee re-assembled at ten o'clock, A.M., this day, in the St. Cloud hotel, and continued the taking of testimony.
* * * * *
R. Dale Benson, _sworn_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where is your residence?
A. No. 260 South Fifteenth street.
Q. Were you a member of the National Guards in July last?
A. I was colonel of the First regiment of infantry.
Q. And you accompanied General Brinton's division to Pittsburgh?
A. Yes; I left with them from Philadelphia.
Q. Did you go with them to Twenty-eighth street, on Saturday?
A. Yes; my position was the right of the First brigade--the right of the division. I have heard General Mathews' and Colonel Snowden's testimony in regard to the details, and my testimony is pretty much the same.
Q. Their testimony in that respect was correct?
A. Yes; the only difference I would notice is in regard to what they testify in regard to my right. My right was impeded by a crowd of citizens at Twenty-eighth street. The column was halted on account of moving the Gatling guns, and I went ahead and told the crowd to leave my front, and some citizen came back to me agitated and excited, and said it was the sheriff's posse. I told him that it didn't make any difference what it was, that they must leave my front. He asked me whether my men would do their duty, and I told him it was not his business, and I ordered them to disperse. Two or three others came back and said they were ordered to march there, and I declined to allow them to march in my front. General Mathews was in the rear, attending to the Gatling guns, and I turned the party over to him, who turned out to be the sheriff of Allegheny county. General Mathews afterwards came and said they were instructed to march there, and so they were permitted.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Was it the sheriff himself that you stopped?
A. I was so informed afterwards.
Q. You knew it was the sheriff afterwards?
A. Yes; I didn't know him, and don't now. I never met him after that.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State whether there was any order given to fire at Twenty-eighth street?
A. I never received any order, and gave no order to fire, nor do I believe any order was given to fire. The firing at Twenty-eighth street commended by the men in the rear rank of the Weccacoe Legion. The company had been brought to a charge bayonets when the crowd seized this man's musket. I saw them take hold of it. He drew back and fired. The firing extended then towards the right--towards the Washington Grays.
Q. Did he draw his musket away?
A. He stepped back about a pace, and fired.
Q. Did he fire at the man?
A. I cannot tell, but he fired into the crowd. The firing then extended to the right. My regiment was crowded into--the crowd overlapping my right, which I suppose was the cause of the troops being ordered from my right to push the crowd back. The firing was desultory file firing, and I think that the responsibility for it rests with the authorities who put the troops into that perilous position.
Q. Had there been firing by the crowd before that?
A. Yes; there had been shots from the hill, and stone firing and firing also took place from Twenty-eighth street and from under the cars on my front.
Q. What time did this occur--this firing?
A. I should judge about three and a half or four o'clock. I didn't refer to my watch. Its only a calculation of mine--a guess at it.
Q. Did that disperse the crowd?
A. Entirely--from our immediate front and from the hill.
Q. Where did you remain after the firing?
A. In the same position.
Q. Until what time?
A. Until towards seven o'clock--six and a half or seven o'clock--I didn't refer to my watch during the afternoon.
Q. Then you retired into the round-house?
A. Yes.
Q. State what the condition of the round-house was when you left it in the morning?
A. I considered it wholly untenable. During the morning, General Brinton came to me, and we were talking over some matter, and I called his attention to the fact that we would have to leave the building very soon. From the windows we could see that the machine shops adjoining were on fire. At the time the fire was very close, and cars were burning on Liberty street. I told him that the building could not be saved, and some hour or two after that the building was entirely on fire adjoining us, and the smoke was so dense we could not breathe. Shortly after that we were moved out.
Q. Did the troops move out in good order?
A. In perfect order.
Q. In what direction did you retire?
A. Out Twenty-fifth street to Penn avenue, and down Penn avenue.
Q. Did your troops keep good order during the entire retreat out Penn avenue?
A. Pretty much so, until we got to the arsenal. There was some confusion there.
Q. What caused it?
A. I judge--I was on the extreme right--I suppose it was the firing in the rear. My position on the extreme right prevented me from seeing what took place; but I have no question that the troops were fired into, though I could not see it myself.
Q. Did you see any firing along the route from the round-house?
A. I didn't, though I heard shots.
Q. You heard shots?
A. Yes.
Q. State what the conduct of the men was in the round-house during the night?
A. My observation was almost entirely confined to my own corps. I never left my regiment, except to visit the detachments on duty, and so far as my regiment was concerned they were entirely under my control. The troops in the other buildings I didn't see.
Q. Was there any demoralization discoverable?
A. None that I saw. I never saw men more patient or under better discipline.
Q. How long did you halt at the arsenal?
A. I judge a very few moments. Probably five minutes.
Q. Did you know or see where General Brinton went?
A. I didn't.
Q. Did any of your men leave you at the arsenal?
A. Yes.
Q. How many?
A. I think five or six--an officer and five or six men.
Q. Where did they join you?
A. Some at Blairsville Intersection and some at Pittsburgh.
Q. How long afterwards?
A. Two or three men joined us in two or three days, and the officer in six or seven days. One of the men never reported at all. He was court-martialed--and the officer, too--all the men that left.
Q. A regimental court-martial?
A. No; it was ordered by brigade head-quarters.
Q. Was the officer discharged from the service?
A. He was not discharged.
Q. What was done by the court-martial?
A. The verdict was absent without leave, without criminal intent.
Q. That was the officer?
A. Yes.
Q. What was his rank?
A. Major and surgeon.
Q. If you know the reasons that induced that verdict you may state them?
A. My opinion is pretty much hearsay. I was not a member of the court. The proceedings were reviewed by General Brinton, and he can give you better the facts that led to the verdict. His order didn't approve of the action of the court.
Q. It didn't?
A. No.
Q. Were the men discharged?
A. The result of the court-martial has not been promulgated as yet.
Q. Had you any men that refused to report for duty when you first got the call to proceed to Pittsburgh?
A. I don't think there was any instance of that kind. My regiment had on duty four hundred and sixty-four men out of a roll of about five hundred and sixty, and some of these men who were absent had made efforts to report, but were unable on account of lack of transportation, or on account of being sent back after they started.